David Carr: Amongst the worst in 40 years

[real]

AJ, PBuc, and TJ were all high first round picks...

And they were all dissapointing last year...But since this is a Carr thread I commented on Carr...Those players that you named aren't as high profile as Carr so thats probably why they don't get as much blame, but if you want to start a thread about those three....i'll throw them under the bus too...

 

[texan279]

And they were all dissapointing last year...But since this is a Carr thread I commented on Carr...Those players that you named aren't as high profile as Carr so thats probably why they don't get as much blame, but if you want to start a thread about those three....i'll throw them under the bus too...

You said comparing Carr to another player wasn't fair yet you say they were all dissapointing last year. And you really think AJ is not as high profile as Carr?

 

[swtbound07]

I'm not buying yout theory buddy. Carr, in my opinion is not the best QB in the league but he hasn't been given a chance to perform..The O-line was and until proven otherwise still is trash..Lets wait and see how he does behind a pretty good set of linemen before you get to ranking him on anyones all-time list..Carr has the arm and the legs..His only problem is that he makes bad decisions. That can be corrected by the right coach..Capers wasnt it..You want to blame somebody them blame him and his coaching system...it absolutely sucks..

Its not a theory sir....its visually verifiable. Carr is not the best qb in the league???? really? You figured that one out all by yourself? Lets not wait anymore...4 years is long enough to make a decision. You don't KNOW if it can be corrected...carr could be too far gone. Yes, I want to blame someone, and I choose carr. Obviously you choose the coaching system. Thats fine. Carr has been giving 4 seasons worth of chances to perform. Not my fault he didn't take them. Buddy.

 

[Titan "Tack" Fan]

Its not a theory sir....its visually verifiable. Carr is not the best qb in the league???? really? You figured that one out all by yourself? Lets not wait anymore...4 years is long enough to make a decision. You don't KNOW if it can be corrected...carr could be too far gone. Yes, I want to blame someone, and I choose carr. Obviously you choose the coaching system. Thats fine. Carr has been giving 4 seasons worth of chances to perform. Not my fault he didn't take them. Buddy.

Why didn't you answer my PM, swtbound07?

 

[real]

I'm not buying yout theory buddy. Carr, in my opinion is not the best QB in the league but he hasn't been given a chance to perform..The O-line was and until proven otherwise still is trash..Lets wait and see how he does behind a pretty good set of linemen before you get to ranking him on anyones all-time list..Carr has the arm and the legs..His only problem is that he makes bad decisions. That can be corrected by the right coach..Capers wasnt it..You want to blame somebody them blame him and his coaching system...it absolutely sucks..

Look....Im just calling it how I see it....Carr Sucked last year...I don't care why, or how he sucked...I just know he sucked...If old coaching staff was all that was holding him back, then that means everyone should recieve a magical ratings boost...just because kubes is in town....Im not saying he doesn't deserve a chance, because he does...Im just saying that I don't think he'll do much with his chance...and why is the o-line trash untill proven otherwise but Carr gets a special pass......

 

[Rosewood]

Its not a theory sir....its visually verifiable. Carr is not the best qb in the league???? really? You figured that one out all by yourself? Lets not wait anymore...4 years is long enough to make a decision. You don't KNOW if it can be corrected...carr could be too far gone. Yes, I want to blame someone, and I choose carr. Obviously you choose the coaching system. Thats fine. Carr has been giving 4 seasons worth of chances to perform. Not my fault he didn't take them. Buddy.

lol...just look at his numbers man..they verify everything...they are very good considering the amount of presure he has faced each and every game....you blame carr then thats good but I dont..you say too far gone...dude he has only played four years..QB's / Players develope at different stages in their careers...see gannon, steve young, brad johnson, etc....now this season should tell it all..I bet the farm he will have a ton of riders on the bandwagon this season...

 

[Rosewood]

Look....Im just calling it how I see it....Carr Sucked last year...I don't care why, or how he sucked...I just know he sucked...If old coaching staff was all that was holding him back, then that means everyone should recieve a magical ratings boost...just because kubes is in town....Im not saying he doesn't deserve a chance, because he does...Im just saying that I don't think he'll do much with his chance...and why is the o-line trash untill proven otherwise but Carr gets a special pass......

yea last year he suck...hell the Texans sucked....but you said it best...he deserves a chance..and the o-line is trash...then dudes couldnt block themselves...now they sucked!!!!!

 

[TEXANRED]

Look....Im just calling it how I see it....Carr Sucked last year...I don't care why, or how he sucked...I just know he sucked...If old coaching staff was all that was holding him back, then that means everyone should receive a magical ratings boost...just because kubes is in town....Im not saying he doesn't deserve a chance, because he does...Im just saying that I don't think he'll do much with his chance...and why is the o-line trash until proven otherwise but Carr gets a special pass......

Carr doesn't get a special pass. He is our QB b/c the powers that be see all the physical and mental tools that make a great NFL QB. If this were not the case he would not be here. Look at all the changes that have been made up to this point. He is not being kept on out of sympathy. He is being kept b/c they feel he can lead the Texans to the promise land, otherwise we would have taken Vince Young.

How many Superbowl rings does Kubes have? What QB's has he been around? Young? Elway? I will take Kubes' word on Carr being good enough to win a Superbowl.

I continue to say it but you don't go 2-14 b/c of one person. It takes a group effort to mess up that badly. One person does not make a team.

 

[real]

I think that people take negative comments toward Carr the wrong way...I am going to bash the whole team...evryone who sucked will get thrown under the bus....but don't pee on my back and tell me it's raining...in other words don't tell me Carr is going to get better "because of coaching"...and then Bash the O-line...If you are a coaching guy thats fine...but ride with the coaches all the way...if they fix Carr, why wouldn't they fix the o-line??? and in order for Carr to have a good season, the o-line HAS to play good...right??

 

[real]

Carr doesn't get a special pass. He is our QB b/c the powers that be see all the physical and mental tools that make a great NFL QB. If this were not the case he would not be here. Look at all the changes that have been made up to this point. He is not being kept on out of sympathy. He is being kept b/c they feel he can lead the Texans to the promise land, otherwise we would have taken Vince Young.
How many Superbowl rings does Kubes have? What QB's has he been around? Young? Elway? I will take Kubes' word on Carr being good enough to win a Superbowl.
I continue to say it but you don't go 2-14 b/c of one person. It takes a group effort to mess up that badly. One person does not make a team.

Your post is fine and dandy...BUT...You haven't given me one hard fact as to why you THINK Carr will play better...So is Kubiak the end all be all now...because he thinks Carr is going to be good that makes it true...Mind you I have faith that kubiak is a good coach and can turn Carr around...but that is just a guess...all i KNOW is that Carr hasn't played well...in fact last year he really sucked....that is the only fact I know...

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Pretty Rare??? you are kidding me right??? Who do you guys expect to be the leader of the offense??? Andre? Eric? or how about Hogdon?? or how about Travis Johnson as the offensive leader...??? Sound Good ??? Almost every team's offensive leader is going to be there QB...There is no arguing that...And Im not coming out of left field...Apparently the texans front office and coaching staff feels the same way because they have been QUOTED...saying that ya boy Carr needs to become more of a leader...

"More of a leader" is not the same as "THE Leader and Field General."

I think QB's that are the leader of the offense (as opposed to a leader of the offense) are rare. Brady, McNabb, Peyton Manning (not Eli, yet), McNair, Favre. Hmmm... that's about it, I think. I'm not sure about guys like Trent Green, Pennington, and Trent Dilfer. I don't think Bledsoe has it; I think Brunell had it and lost it. There are some QB's that could develop that quality like Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Vick, and some of the other younger QB's... including Carr. And there are guys like Aaron Brooks, Kerry Collins, Culpepper, and Fiedler that don't have it.

But the play of the quarterback hasn't been the primary factor in most teams' winning or losing in a long time... imo.

 

[Battle Red Flash]

If this was about rookie QB's starting 4 straight years, or expansion QB's starting 4 straight years, I might take it serious.
Also, I think all the QB's that could not start for 4 straight years should be factored in. It's a feat in the NFL just to do that!

 

[TEXANRED]

I think that people take negative comments toward Carr the wrong way...I am going to bash the whole team...evryone who sucked will get thrown under the bus....but don't pee on my back and tell me it's raining...in other words don't tell me Carr is going to get better "because of coaching"...and then Bash the O-line...If you are a coaching guy thats fine...but ride with the coaches all the way...if they fix Carr, why wouldn't they fix the o-line??? and in order for Carr to have a good season, the o-line HAS to play good...right??

There is a difference. Carr shows promise. Carr shows effort. Carr shows mental and physical toughness, competitiveness and testicular fortitude.

Now with that statement, tell me Victor Riley showed any of that. Or Milford, or Wade. Tell me Coleman just didn't give up last season. Tell me TJ really really wants it. Show me where Gaffney really cared to be a Texan. Show me that proof Morency has the ability to hit the hole and mean it.

Everyone quit last year. You could see it in there faces. The way they took the field. I mean for Gods sake Kris Brown missed a 30 yard field goal 40 yards to the left.

 

[real]

look pencil neck...im not going to argur with you anymore about Carr being a leader so this will be my last post in that regard....If Carr isn't the leader then who is?? Since Coach kubes thinks Carr can be good and everyone jumps on that bandwagon...how about the fact that he has openly said Carr needs to be more of a leader...(which means he hasn't been much of one in the past)and atleast kubiak is smart enough to know that Carr needs to be our leader...how about hopping on that bandwagon ...

 

[real]

There is a difference. Carr shows promise. Carr shows effort. Carr shows mental and physical toughness, competitiveness and testicular fortitude.

Now with that statement, tell me Victor Riley showed any of that. Or Milford, or Wade. Tell me Coleman just didn't give up last season. Tell me TJ really really wants it. Show me where Gaffney really cared to be a Texan. Show me that proof Morency has the ability to hit the hole and mean it.

Im not arguing desire with you...I was arguing performance...I don't care how bad "he wants it", if he cant win games...Heck i wanted real bad for us to be a playoff team last year, and you see where those hopes and dreams led...Hope and desire are both intangibles...which means you just have a hunch he is going to be good...you don't have any solid proof...I have more proof he'll suck than you do that he'll succeed..

 

[TEXANRED]

Your post is fine and dandy...BUT...You haven't given me one hard fact as to why you THINK Carr will play better...So is Kubiak the end all be all now...because he thinks Carr is going to be good that makes it true...Mind you I have faith that kubiak is a good coach and can turn Carr around...but that is just a guess...all i KNOW is that Carr hasn't played well...in fact last year he really sucked....that is the only fact I know...

Every QB that Kubiak has coached has been a success in the NFL and two out of three have won Superbowls.

Thats about as much proof as one human being should need.

 

[real]

Every QB that Kubiak has coached has been a success in the NFL and two out of three have won Superbowls.
Thats about as much proof as one human being should need.

And coach Capers was supposed to be a good coah for a new franchise...so what...

 

[Rosewood]

Better O-line is why Carr will play much better........

 

[swtbound07]

Better O-line is why Carr will play much better........

The O-Line is different....we don't necessarily know that its "better"

 

[TEXANRED]

And coach Capers was supposed to be a good coah for a new franchise...so what...

Are you a glass half empty kinda guy?

Well look at it this way, right now the Texans are undefeated and Carr has a perfect QB rating. Oh yea and training camp begins in 3 days.

When is our first pre-season game?

 

[real]

The O-Line is different....we don't necessarily know that its "better"

lol..'tis true...

 

[Rosewood]

The O-Line is different....we don't necessarily know that its "better"

Old buddy from Maimi is better than any O-linemen we got..the pick ups are also...

 

[HOU-TEX]

The O-Line is different....we don't necessarily know that its "better"

True dat, but the coaching alone should be more of an upgrade on the line than the aquisitions. Only time will tell.

 

[SESupergenius]

After reading over Aikmans take on mentoring, I come away asking myself, has David Carr ever had someone like Norv Turner to help guide him? Was Palmer that person?

When former Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman joins the Pro Football Hall of Fame next month, he'll be presented by his former offensive coordinator, Norv Turner.

"In all the years I played football, and for the 12 years I played for the Cowboys, Norv was a part of that for three years," Aikman said. "And yet I don't think there's any question that I wouldn't have become the player I was able to become. I certainly would not be getting inducted into the Hall of Fame if it weren't for his impact.

"He came in at a time when I was a young quarterback going into my third season, had struggled my first few years and needed some guidance, needed somebody to kind of show me how to do it, and put me in a system that allowed me to do the things that I could do. And he did that."

 

[santo]

After reading over Aikmans take on mentoring, I come away asking myself, has David Carr ever had someone like Norv Turner to help guide him? Was Palmer that person?

I thought the same thing. I remember also when Steve Mcnair came into the league, he had mentoring from Jerry Rhome, who used to be the quaterback coach for the 49'ers. (correct me if I'm wrong).


David Carr, I believe, hasn't had the same quality coaches. Now that he has Kubiak and Co., there is no excuse for him.

 

[GP]

I hate to cast stones here, but just looking at Chris Palmer--his mannerisms, his demeanor, etc.--has never exactly set well with me. He and Fangio seem to be those "rocket scientist" type coaches that have a lot of philosophy and very little practicality to them.

But with Kubiak, you get the sense that he's just a practical guy who implements very teachable and easily used skills. The guy doesn't seem to walk around like he's smarter than everyone else. He just seems to know football...and he only cares about winning.

I just always got the sense that Fangio and Palmer were similar to Age of Empire geeks who sit at a computer for days....drawing up master plans for world conquest and so carefully constructing their battle plan that they fail to realize that even the best laid plans might need to be scrapped in the middle of the battle. I just always sensed that those two guys were more proud of their "system" than they were of letting the flow of the game come to the QB.

Don't you think that Kubiak is a lot more humble, and a lot more willing to adjust than Palmer was? Of course, it didn;t help that Capers and Palmer were practically polar opposites in terms of playcalling.

Kubiak is a guy who played the position, coached the position SUCCESSFULLY with multiple rings to his credit, and he has successfully called/designed plays that fit a multitude of QBs who had different talents and skill sets.

We quite possibly have pulled off the biggest coaching acquisition if everything plays out as well as it did for Kubiak when he was with the Broncos for so long.

David Carr's first four years will be a very casual memory if this team turns it around and gets us on top of our division in the next 1-3 years. Then you'll be seeing Kubiak's legacy cemented and Carr's career getting reviewed in a whole different light. And will make Capers look even worse than before.

There's a lot riding on our team and the Kubiak experience. And I think it's going to turn out nicely, IMO.

 

[afcman]

I only read the first post because there's no way I'm gonna read thru this whole thread when all I really have to say is this:

I have completely lost faith in Carr. I think, and hope, that he can make a turn-around.

I also think, at least this past season, that he has lost the respect from his team mates. I saw, on more than one occasion, this past season, where he would come off the field and completely IGNORE the coaches trying to talk to him and show him photos from the game. (But he would always make sure his hair was parted down the middle)

No, I don't blame it ALL on him. So much goes to that joke of a GM we used to have. But Carr could have, and should have, made better decisions.

My worry now is if he, and the rest of the team, can make it thru another losing season yet realize that we are almost starting over. Again.

 

[the wonger need food]

Carr doesn't get a special pass. He is our QB b/c the powers that be see all the physical and mental tools that make a great NFL QB. If this were not the case he would not be here.

Not exactly. There are a lot of politics involved. To cut Carr (the face of the franchise) loose would be admitting total and complete failure.

 

[afcman]

There are a lot of politics involved.

There always is......IN EVERYTHING.

 

[Bearfan Blue and Orange]

Not exactly. There are a lot of politics involved. To cut Carr (the face of the franchise) loose would be admitting total and complete failure.

I think it is a combination of both. I think the front office would lose faith of the fans that are spending their money if they did stay with a QB that cannot complete more than a 3 yard pass.

I think if there was not a changing of the guards so to speak that the fuse would be really short for Carr and they would not have given him the extension he received. Kubiak (being a qb coach at one time) knows the characteristics of a good QB and he sees that in Carr. I think that is also why they agressively saught after impact players in Moulds, Walter, Putzier, etc on offense. His is setting Carr up for success whereas before he was set up for failure before this offseason/season.

 

[jerek]

Not exactly. There are a lot of politics involved. To cut Carr (the face of the franchise) loose would be admitting total and complete failure.

Because Bob McNair became a billionaire through pride and unwillingness to admit "mistake."

 

[NoBullTexan]

Did it ever occur to anyone that not only Carr disregarded the coaching staff, but so did most of the team. They flat lost faith, not in Carr, but in Capers, and Fangio, and that dumb excuse of a Pendry. In Fangio's case, I remember Gary Walker trying to tell him some defensive calls were wrong. Fangio told him, "you do the playing, I'll do the coaching". Nobody could tell Fangio anything, he wouldn't listen, he knew it all. So the players said to hell with it, we can't win with this system, so they just quit. Never more evident than in the S.F. game. Capers and Pendry would stand pat with players like Riley and others, that had no busines being in the NFL. Many of us on this board were bithcing because the coaches were incapable of making adjustments at halftime Well now it is clear they were simply overwhelmed. I just don't see how people can say they just can't stand Carr when he has never really been in a position to show what he can do, if given a little time. I was at games where the defense was literally on Carr almost before he could get the snap from center. How could anyone perform behind a line, and a system like that. Open your eyes peple. You will be amazed how Carr IS GOING TO PERFORM under the tutelage of Kubiak.

 

[afcman]

Did it ever occur to anyone that not only Carr disregarded the coaching staff, but so did most of the team.

Oh yes....I posted about this many months ago. But I still stand by what I wrote about Carr.

 

[hollywood_texan]

The quarterback position is successful or not successful for many reasons. Just because a quarterback gets sacked doesn't mean it is the offensive line's fault. Payton Manning had great protection last year and against Pittsburgh in the playoffs he had no time at all. It wasn't the line's fault, it was the coaching staff and Manning himself to blame. The offensive line only does what they are told and have no direct impact on the movement of the ball. Look at this way, superior quarterback play is going to help a marginal offensive line a lot more than a superior offensive line's play compared to marginal quarterback play.

Also consider, even in garbage time, Carr couldn't put up good numbers last year.

On the offensive side of the ball, everything has been changed except for the quarterback and running back positions. So it seems clearly that Carr must show he was worth the #1 pick in the draft from 2002, or we just continue to make other changes around him.

How much time does David Carr have? I think it may be several years because I don't see who would replace him. I seriously doubt they will pick a quarterback if we are in the top 5 of draft picks. That leaves veterans that are out there. Go through the list of names and it isn't pleasant. Not to mention the marketing disaster of Vince Young playing at Tennessee when he is successful and dumping Carr in the process. Talk about egg on your face for McNair.

Bottom line, Carr's job is pretty much safe in my opinion if the Texans can win 4 to 5 games and he shows marginal improvement.

This is a three year process and Carr has the physical skills and age on his side. He will have plenty of time to prove the mental side of his game.

 

[THEFUTURE]

The quarterback position is successful or not successful for many reasons. Just because a quarterback gets sacked doesn't mean it is the offensive line's fault. Payton Manning had great protection last year and against Pittsburgh in the playoffs he had no time at all. It wasn't the line's fault, it was the coaching staff and Manning himself to blame. The offensive line only does what they are told and have no direct impact on the movement of the ball. Look at this way, superior quarterback play is going to help a marginal offensive line a lot more than a superior offensive line's play compared to marginal quarterback play.

Also consider, even in garbage time, Carr couldn't put up good numbers last year.

wrong. remember watching the Texans play on ESPN? Carr was getting sacked withing 1.5 seconds... NO quarterback, i dont care how good they are, can make a good play in that time, he is barely out of his drop back at that time. Teams brought the house on the Texans every game last year, because our line couldnt hold up, and we didn't have enough weapons to keep teams honest. It was simple for teams, double AJ, put a man on Gaff, and then send in the rest of the troops to kill Carr..... It wasn't Indy's lines fault? so why did Peyton throw his linemen under the bus and blame it on them???? the fact is that the Colts couldnt handle the pressure from Pittsburg either

 

[hollywood_texan]

wrong. remember watching the Texans play on ESPN? Carr was getting sacked withing 1.5 seconds... NO quarterback, i dont care how good they are, can make a good play in that time, he is barely out of his drop back at that time. Teams brought the house on the Texans every game last year, because our line couldnt hold up, and we didn't have enough weapons to keep teams honest. It was simple for teams, double AJ, put a man on Gaff, and then send in the rest of the troops to kill Carr..... It wasn't Indy's lines fault? so why did Peyton throw his linemen under the bus and blame it on them???? the fact is that the Colts couldnt handle the pressure from Pittsburg either

I remember the Sunday night game against the Packers and Carr and Company couldn't get one first down in the fourth quarter. Ended up losing but led 13 - 3 at the beginning of the fourth. Take that for whatever it is worth. There was no issue of protection.

If a defense doesn't repect a quarterback's ability to get the ball to an open receiver, the best line in the NFL isn't going to make a difference in protection.

My point is, all of this stuff goes hand and hand. The offensive line don't touch the football, expect for the center during the snap, and they only do what they are told. If the coaching staff and quarterback don't have their act together, these guys are going to look like chumps, but in reality it really isn't their fault.

I agree, the offensive line has some talent issues. But, if the offensive line was so bad, why only add one quality veteran and two rookies from the early third round. Those are big moves to change tthe line, but not wholesale changes. Three to four guys from last year are going to be starting on the line the same from last year.

I'll break down the responsibility of the Carr issue:

Casserly/Capers - 40%
Carr - 35%
Offensive line talent - 15%
No passing threats - 10% (meaning other than AJ)

Why did Payton Manning throw his offensive line under bus? I don't know why, maybe he doesn't take the heat that well. Are you telling me the entire offensive line had a bad day when they were great all year. Unlikely. What happened was Pittsburgh was dictating the play calling to Indy. They would show a defensive set, Manning would call the play according to the set, and Pittsburgh ran a different defensive scheme when the ball was snapped. Manning and the coaching staff didn't adjust and the offensive line got the blame.

 

[THEFUTURE]

I remember the Sunday night game against the Packers and Carr and Company couldn't get one first down in the fourth quarter. Ended up losing but led 13 - 3 at the beginning of the fourth. Take that for whatever it is worth. There was no issue of protection.

If a defense doesn't repect a quarterback's ability to get the ball to an open receiver, the best line in the NFL isn't going to make a difference in protection.

My point is, all of this stuff goes hand and hand. The offensive line don't touch the football, expect for the center during the snap, and they only do what they are told. If the coaching staff and quarterback don't have their act together, these guys are going to look like chumps, but in reality it really isn't their fault.

I agree, the offensive line has some talent issues. But, if the offensive line was so bad, why only add one quality veteran and two rookies from the early third round. Those are big moves to change tthe line, but not wholesale changes. Three to four guys from last year are going to be starting on the line the same from last year.

I'll break down the responsibility of the Carr issue:

Casserly/Capers - 40%
Carr - 35%
Offensive line talent - 15%
No passing threats - 10% (meaning other than AJ)

Why did Payton Manning throw his offensive line under bus? I don't know why, maybe he doesn't take the heat that well. Are you telling me the entire offensive line had a bad day when they were great all year. Unlikely. What happened was Pittsburgh was dictating the play calling to Indy. They would show a defensive set, Manning would call the play according to the set, and Pittsburgh ran a different defensive scheme when the ball was snapped. Manning and the coaching staff didn't adjust and the offensive line got the blame.

From Foxsports.com
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5794000
Check it out....

31. Houston Texans
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here ... especially if thou art a quarterback. Especially if thou art David Carr, a young man who could teach a certain Mr. Manning a thing or three about not throwing his linemen under a bus. Football Outsiders, as part of our game-charting project, tracks blown blocks that lead directly to sacks. Houston far exceeded any other team, racking up 40 blown blocks ("whiffs", you might call them — St. Louis was second with 29). The truly frightening number: 8.1 percent of Houston's pass plays resulted in a blown block sack. New head coach Gary Kubiak will bring his knowledge of Denver's zone blocking system to Houston, but who are the guys who are supposed to implement it?

Right tackle Zach Weigert, left tackle Seth Wand, guards Chester Pitts and Steve McKinney, and center Mike Flanagan will be directed to drop weight and get quicker in the new schemes that require them to get out of the blocks quickly and get to the second level. Overseeing this progression will be former Green Bay head coach Mike Sherman, Kubiak's right-hand man on the offensive side. One bit of encouraging news is that Houston improved to eighth in Adjusted Line Yards in 2005, but that won't make up for another season of historically woeful pass-blocking.

The Packer game??? wasn't that two years ago? try i believe the Chiefs game where the commentators were criticizing our line for the play.

Manning adjust almost every play at the line. He hardly ever keeps the same play the coaches call. Manning has had no problem adjusting to every defense thrown at him, you think he would have trouble an entire game with the Steelers? when 4 or 5 guys are getting to Manning in the game, there is a way bigger problem than the offensive play, there is a problem with protection

 

[hollywood_texan]

Manning adjust almost every play at the line. He hardly ever keeps the same play the coaches call. Manning has had no problem adjusting to every defense thrown at him, you think he would have trouble an entire game with the Steelers? when 4 or 5 guys are getting to Manning in the game, there is a way bigger problem than the offensive play, there is a problem with protection

Manning calling the play at the line was the exact problem. Here is what happened.

Pittsburgh studied the tendacies of Indy for the past two years and really looked at the San Diego games.

What Pittsburgh realized was if you have gave Manning a certain defensive look, he would call a certain play. Basically, Pittsburgh was dictating Indy's play calling as well as knowing every play before it was run. In addition, they would change the defensive scheme from what they shown before the snap, so Manning was confused because Pittsburgh was playing a defense different from the look they gave him.

I merely picked the packers game because that was during the year Carr had his best year. There are other examples I could provide in that year alone.

My point is, a better coaching staff and a way improved Carr will be more benefical to the offense in scoring points than just improving the offensive line or saying it is all their fault.

If Kubiak doesn't make good play calling and/or David Carr stinks up the joint, the best line in the world isn't going to save Carr from being the sack master that he is already well on his way of becoming.

 

[THEFUTURE]

Manning calling the play at the line was the exact problem. Here is what happened.

Pittsburgh studied the tendacies of Indy for the past two years and really looked at the San Diego games.

What Pittsburgh realized was if you have gave Manning a certain defensive look, he would call a certain play. Basically, Pittsburgh was dictating Indy's play calling as well as knowing every play before it was run. In addition, they would change the defensive scheme from what they shown before the snap, so Manning was confused because Pittsburgh was playing a defense different from the look they gave him.

I merely picked the packers game because that was during the year Carr had his best year. There are other examples I could provide in that year alone.

My point is, a better coaching staff and a way improved Carr will be more benefical to the offense in scoring points than just improving the offensive line or saying it is all their fault.

If Kubiak doesn't make good play calling and/or David Carr stinks up the joint, the best line in the world isn't going to save Carr from being the sack master that he is already well on his way of becoming.

why would you bring up a game that happened two years ago? thats totally irrelevant. Analysts aren't criticizing the Texans for what they did two years ago, but for what they did last year.

the MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR THIS TEAM or at least on offense is the line...Carr can be the next Marino for all we know, but he wont get the chance to prove it unless his line steps their game up. you can't score points if your quarterback is on his back. and i call it like i see it. i saw a horrible offensive line that couldn't pass protect any better than my grandmother.

Kubiak could come up with the most ingenious offense ever, and it doesn't matter. Quarterbacks can't make plays in 1.5 seconds. So if we go by your train of thought. Kubiak can sit in his office all day and create plays, while opposing teams just keep the same old game plan against us. Blitz, cuz the texans can't stop it

 

[hollywood_texan]

Quarterbacks can't make plays in 1.5 seconds.

I'll try and keep this brief...

You are right, a QB can't make pass in 1.5 seconds that is meaningful.

We agree there.

Just because a QB only has 1.5 seconds doesn't mean it is competely the offensive line's fault. Hopefully you see my point.

As for bringing up a game two years ago. I did that for two reasons. One you mentioned a Sunday night game. Two, many Carr supporters reference the 2004 year in stating their case.

 

[Vinny]

the MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR THIS TEAM or at least on offense is the line...Carr can be the next Marino for all we know, but he wont get the chance to prove it unless his line steps their game up. you can't score points if your quarterback is on his back. and i call it like i see it.

I see it kinda opposite you do. Marino took a less than stellar cast around him and put them on his back and made them winners. So far Carr seems to need a more than average cast so they can put Carr on their backs.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I see it kinda opposite you do. Marino took a less than stellar cast around him and put them on his back and made them winners. So far Carr seems to need a more than average cast so they can put Carr on their backs.

There is a difference between less than steller cast and rosters that are frightening with their lack of talent and depth.

I'm not about to annoint Carr the next great QB, but at the same time, I completely understand the point of view that his coaching, talent around him, and scheme were totally ridiculous.

At the end of the day, I just have a hard time seeing any QB succeeding with what we had in place. Especially looking back in retrospect. The 2002 team was baby players trying to lead baby players. Project rookie O-linemen and castoffs. Would Peyton or Ben succeed as the 2002 pick of the Texans. I don't think so.

If Carr is any good, he will stay. If Kubiak doesn't like him, I am guessing he will get kicked to the curb like other Denver QBs that haven't quite worked out.

 

[TK_Gamer]

I'll try and keep this brief...

You are right, a QB can't make pass in 1.5 seconds that is meaningful.

We agree there.

Just because a QB only has 1.5 seconds doesn't mean it is competely the offensive line's fault. Hopefully you see my point.As for bringing up a game two years ago. I did that for two reasons. One you mentioned a Sunday night game. Two, many Carr supporters reference the 2004 year in stating their case.

no, what is your point?, as for the blame quotient id say just from what we have affirmed here.

coaching 50%
o-line 35% (with bad coaching)
Carr 15% (mainly counting unneccesary self induced sacks out of bounds)

since we have all agreed at one time or another that no qb can make a play (besides a sack or throw away) in 1.5 - 2.0 secs. maybe we should be screaming about that instead of david carr. he got paid to come to play and he wasnt allowed to do that very well. is 6 or 7 mil alot to pay for mediocre performance? yes . was there alot carr could do to correct it? no. that was taken care of by mcnair when he brought in kubiak.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

There is a difference between less than steller cast and rosters that are frightening with their lack of talent and depth.

I'm not about to annoint Carr the next great QB, but at the same time, I completely understand the point of view that his coaching, talent around him, and scheme were totally ridiculous.

At the end of the day, I just have a hard time seeing any QB succeeding with what we had in place. Especially looking back in retrospect. The 2002 team was baby players trying to lead baby players. Project rookie O-linemen and castoffs. Would Peyton or Ben succeed as the 2002 pick of the Texans. I don't think so.

If Carr is any good, he will stay. If Kubiak doesn't like him, I am guessing he will get kicked to the curb like other Denver QBs that haven't quite worked out.

Basically, Vinny has never been a Carr fan and probably never will be. As biased as he would say I am towards Carr he is of an equal bias or more in the opposite direction. I keep saying like you, I think based on the personnel the jury is out. Vinny might be right, but Carr has had some tremendous handicaps. Except for AJ, we have completely revamped our receiver core and there is a reason. I think it became apparent from the films. As many have said there are no more excuses as far as receivers and coaching are concerned. I worry about the zone blocking scheme and its impact on the the ability of the QB to have time to throw the ball. We will just have to wait and see. I still feel Carr has a lot of the characteristics of Elway, but I don't think he is as gifted as Elway was.