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Colt McCoy

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Where do you see his upside? Any chance he can be an NFL starter again? Writing is on the wall in Cleveland.
I think he can be a very productive starter. I doubt anyone could have done much better if any in the situation he was in last year. His best WR is comparable to our Jacoby Jones. His best RB had strep throat & couldn't play 8 games or something silly like that.

I think he would have done better than Curtis Painter in Indy.

But you're right, the writing is on the wall. I think he's going to end up being a journey man waiting for the right opportunity. Best case scenario, his career will probably be similar to Rich Gannon's.

I don't think Cleveland's problem is their QB.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
I think he can be a very productive starter. I doubt anyone could have done much better if any in the situation he was in last year.
Not Tom Brady? Aaron Rodgers?

I think he would have done better than Curtis Painter in Indy.

I don't think Cleveland's problem is their QB.
You've kind of lowered the bar, there. And Cleveland definitely thought they had a problem at QB.

Frankly, I think Vinny was kind in his comparisons to Colt. I would have gone with Chris Simms.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Not Tom Brady? Aaron Rodgers?
Surely those guys would have done better. But I doubt Brady would have had the year he had in 2011 with the Patriots, nor would Rodgers look like Superman.

A little off subject, but Cam Newton wouldn't have looked so good if Steve Smith wasn't out there catching balls & making plays.

Cleveland's got serious talent issues, mostly on offense.

You've kind of lowered the bar, there. And Cleveland definitely thought they had a problem at QB.
The point wasn't about lowering the bar, but highlighting the tools he would have had in Indy versus what he had in Clevland. Reggie Wayne & Pierre Garcon would have helped Colt look much better than he did in Cleveland.

Curtis Painter on the other hand is just bad. He had Reggie Wayne & Pierre Garcon & couldn't do much with them.
 

Mr. White

H-Town Beatdown
His offensive line was pretty god-awful last season. I was thinking he needed better protection.

That was before Holmgren drafted a QB in the 1st round. Now I just think they've gone as far as they can with the guy.

One thing that I've learned as a Texans fan is this:

It's not always the offensive line's fault. I think everyone who watched the team from 2002-2006 knows what I'm getting at.
 

Vinny

shiny happy fan
I think Colt could be a serviceable starter.
His upside is Charlie Batch or Jeff Garcia, but he's being replaced because he isn't that big - fingers crossed when he's hit, and doesn't have the arm to drive the ball in a windy stadium. He's a good guy and I'm not trying to knock him but if he is starting, you're looking for a quarterback.
 

BCRich

Waterboy
His offensive line was pretty god-awful last season. I was thinking he needed better protection.

That was before Holmgren drafted a QB in the 1st round. Now I just think they've gone as far as they can with the guy.

One thing that I've learned as a Texans fan is this:

It's not always the offensive line's fault. I think everyone who watched the team from 2002-2006 knows what I'm getting at.
Big difference. Colt, imo, still has that will to win. He might be making mistakes trying to force it, but he's still standing tall when he needs to stand tall, picking up yards when he needs to pick up yards, and giving the other guys an opportunity to make a play when the team needs someone to make a play.

2002-2004, we had a QB that was doing the same for us. It wasn't until (midway through 2004) 2005, that I thought the will to win was beat out of him. He just didn't give a crap. Rather take a sack than throw an INT or give a receiver an opportunity to make a play. Rather hold on to the ball & run out of bounds behind the LOS than throw an incompletion, rather take the safe, four yard toss, than throw it to the guy wide open 15 yards down the field.

Colt hasn't got there yet.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Colt reminds me of a Jeff Garcia type of player. When he was drafted and coming into the league, I said that he would never be a quality NFL starter. He did look much better than I expected as a rookie though, and gave me some hope. His situation in Cleveland was way to bad to completely write him off like he failed though. That team gave him zero weapons, a poor running game, and a bad offensive line with a new coaching staff as well.

From what I watched of him, I'd take him over TJ Yates any day of the week.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Yep,

I would give up a 5/6th for McCoy to backup Schaub.

In fact at the same stages of their careers I would say Colt and Schaub are very comparable.
 

Texas T

Veteran
His offensive line was pretty god-awful last season. I was thinking he needed better protection.
This was his main problem last year (okay and no other playmakers on Offense) I don't think that there's a QB in the league who could have succeeded on that Brown's team (yes I'm including Brady and Rodgers). Maybe Rothlesburger would have been okay because he's one tough SOB and hard to bring down. QBs are very ineffective as a group while running for their life.

I do think that Colt would be a very effective QB in the right place, now will anyone give him a chance with the Browns stench all over him??
 

Mr. White

H-Town Beatdown
Big difference. Colt, imo, still has that will to win. He might be making mistakes trying to force it, but he's still standing tall when he needs to stand tall, picking up yards when he needs to pick up yards, and giving the other guys an opportunity to make a play when the team needs someone to make a play.

2002-2004, we had a QB that was doing the same for us. It wasn't until (midway through 2004) 2005, that I thought the will to win was beat out of him. He just didn't give a crap. Rather take a sack than throw an INT or give a receiver an opportunity to make a play. Rather hold on to the ball & run out of bounds behind the LOS than throw an incompletion, rather take the safe, four yard toss, than throw it to the guy wide open 15 yards down the field.

Colt hasn't got there yet.
I agree, but I'm not really comparing them as QB's. I guess I'm just comparing the situation.

The thing that I learned from the Carr years was that if you think the QB's good and the rest of the team sucks, then there's a pretty good chance it's actually the other way around.

Looks like the Browns think it's the latter. I hope they're wrong. I've been a fan since his freshman year when he looked more like a high school freshman.

This was his main problem last year (okay and no other playmakers on Offense) I don't think that there's a QB in the league who could have succeeded on that Brown's team (yes I'm including Brady and Rodgers). Maybe Rothlesburger would have been okay because he's one tough SOB and hard to bring down. QBs are very ineffective as a group while running for their life.

I do think that Colt would be a very effective QB in the right place, now will anyone give him a chance with the Browns stench all over him??
That's what I thought. His line was crap. His receivers were crap. Even the Pro Bowl running back was crap.

One thing's for sure, though. Mike Holmgren has a way better track record with pro QB's than Greg Davis.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Comparable as in just as good? Or skill set wise?

Because both are completely different.
Skill set and temperment wise.

Both have good pocket presence and can handle pressure adequately. They both have have really good accuracy but below avg arm strength. Colt is more mobile than Schaub. But Schaub has more experience.

In short I believe if Gary was working with Colt, Colt could end up being as good if not better than Schaub in a few yrs. I know that I would feel more comfortable with McCoy backing up Schaub than Yates next yr. Hence my being willing to give up a 5/6th rd pick for McCoy.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
I know that I would feel more comfortable with McCoy backing up Schaub than Yates next yr. Hence my being willing to give up a 5/6th rd pick for McCoy.
No other NFL team would, that's why McCoy is still with the Browns.

If McCoy and Yates were both on the free agent market, Yates would get picked up first. Yates has the eye of the tiger. McCoy looks like he accidentally fell into the Lions den. The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:

1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him

Kubiak and Smith could have dealt for McCoy and didn't. That should tell you what side of the argument they fall on.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
No other NFL team would, that's why McCoy is still with the Browns.

If McCoy and Yates were both on the free agent market, Yates would get picked up first. Yates has the eye of the tiger. McCoy looks like he accidentally fell into the Lions den. The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:

1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him

Kubiak and Smith could have dealt for McCoy and didn't. That should tell you what side of the argument they fall on.
You are correct sir.

What's Rick/Garys record?

Not saying I could've done better.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Sounds kinda like Drew Brees.
Yeah, just alike 'cuz Colt has been with the Browns five years, nominated to the pro-bowl twice, played his last year under a franchise tag and then was offered a $50 mil contract even though there were injury concerns and a 1st round QB had been drafted.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Sounds kinda like Drew Brees.
Or Steve Young. McCoy's going to the Hall of Fame! Or he could end up like the hundreds of other QBs who had poor starts to their career, and then fell of the face of the earth.
What's Rick/Garys record?
What's Colt's record in the NFL? What's your point? No other team in the league (regardless of record) is looking to pickup McCoy.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Or Steve Young. McCoy's going to the Hall of Fame! Or he could end up like the hundreds of other QBs who had poor starts to their career, and then fell of the face of the earth.

What's Colt's record in the NFL? What's your point? No other team in the league (regardless of record) is looking to pickup McCoy.
Somebody will pick him up towards the end of TC.
 

gtexan02

Working?
Yeah, just alike 'cuz Colt has been with the Browns five years, nominated to the pro-bowl twice, played his last year under a franchise tag and then was offered a $50 mil contract even though there were injury concerns and a 1st round QB had been drafted.
Im guessing he meant Brees of the Chargers, who was crappy in his first 3 seasons. The Chargers then drafted his replacement (Rivers) and let him move on (to NO).

The big difference is that Brees showed something while he was in his last season in SD. Way more than Colt has ever shown
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Im guessing he meant Brees of the Chargers, who was crappy in his first 3 seasons. The Chargers then drafted his replacement (Rivers) and let him move on (to NO).

The big difference is that Brees showed something while he was in his last season in SD. Way more than Colt has ever shown
I was referring to Brees of the Chargers which was a five year stint. Dude quoted two specific points Lucky made and neither applied. Maybe if San Diego had given up on Brees and tried to trade him after year two or even three there would be some comparison. Instead Brees had a 104 QB rating in his 4th year and was franchised in his 5th (and named to the pro-bowl again). Then they offered him a $50 mil contract despite having paid Rivers for two years.
 

Rey

Guest
His comments don't mean a lot, but I think he's saying that Brees struggled early on and that is why rivers was drafted. It wasn't until after rivers was drafted that Brees started to play like anything resembling the guy he is today.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
I get that McCoy has a lot of support here, based upon the success he had at Texas. Just as Vince Young once had. But, McCoy has done nothing with the Browns that would suggest future success as a NFL QB. Colt still has fans in Texas, but there aren't any believers inside the NFL. So you can argue that he won in college, or that some great QBs struggled initially, as well. You just can't argue that McCoy has played well in the NFL.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I get that McCoy has a lot of support here, based upon the success he had at Texas. Just as Vince Young once had. But, McCoy has done nothing with the Browns that would suggest future success as a NFL QB. Colt still has fans in Texas, but there aren't any believers inside the NFL. So you can argue that he won in college, or that some great QBs struggled initially, as well. You just can't argue that McCoy has played well in the NFL.
Yep,

Colt hasn't played well.

But I would like to see him with a WR like AJ, a RB like Foster and a really good OL.
 

Texas T

Veteran
Yep,

Colt hasn't played well.

But I would like to see him with a WR like AJ, a RB like Foster and a really good OL.
This is my thought on the matter. I'm not saying that he is guaranteed to be a great hall of fame QB but I do think he's better than he looked in Cleveland. We'll all know if he was the problem there or not after this year. The Browns did nothing to shore up their O-line, or acquire any playmakers. I have a strong vision of Weedon doing about the same as Colt did there. Based on that, I don't think that anyone has a real idea on how he'd do on a "real" NFL team.
 

Dutchrudder

King of the Potato People
This is my thought on the matter. I'm not saying that he is guaranteed to be a great hall of fame QB but I do think he's better than he looked in Cleveland. We'll all know if he was the problem there or not after this year. The Browns did nothing to shore up their O-line, or acquire any playmakers. I have a strong vision of Weedon doing about the same as Colt did there. Based on that, I don't think that anyone has a real idea on how he'd do on a "real" NFL team.
Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?

Greg Little certainly will be a playmaker for them in the future, and Josh Cribbs has potential. Their TEs aren't bad either. The problem with the Browns last year had a lot to do with an ineffective run-game thanks to Peyton Hillis holding out for a new contract. The year before, each game that Colt "won" was thanks to Peyton Hillis bowling through defenses. That team is a run-first team for sure, so I expect Trent Richardson to make a huge impact, moreso than Weeden actually.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?

Greg Little certainly will be a playmaker for them in the future, and Josh Cribbs has potential. Their TEs aren't bad either. The problem with the Browns last year had a lot to do with an ineffective run-game thanks to Peyton Hillis holding out for a new contract. The year before, each game that Colt "won" was thanks to Peyton Hillis bowling through defenses. That team is a run-first team for sure, so I expect Trent Richardson to make a huge impact, moreso than Weeden actually.
If Weeden and Gordon can be what they drafted him to be in 2-3 yrs, a team with Weeden, Richardson, Little and Gordon, man that's alot of young very talented weapons.

As a Browns fan, although this yr will probably be tough. You must be excited for the future.

BTW, Schwartz was a great draft pick. IMHO 10 yr starter the run game just improved immensely with the drafting of Richardson and Schwartz.

A very good under the radar pick is Benjamin. He's a playmaker. (Really fast in pads, good hands and route runner. Only thing is that he's short.) A better version of Holliday.
 

Dutchrudder

King of the Potato People
If Weeden and Gordon can be what they drafted him to be in 2-3 yrs, a team with Weeden, Richardson, Little and Gordon, man that's alot of young very talented weapons.

As a Browns fan, although this yr will probably be tough. You must be excited for the future.

BTW, Schwartz was a great draft pick. IMHO 10 yr starter the run game just improved immensely with the drafting of Richardson and Schwartz.

A very good under the radar pick is Benjamin. He's a playmaker. (Really fast in pads, good hands and route runner. Only thing is that he's short.) A better version of Holliday.
Yeah, I think the Browns need another 2 years to develop, but they are on the right track. I liked the Richardson and Schwartz picks in the past draft, and I'm OK with the Weeden pick, but the rest of the draft wasn't that great IMO. Plus their free agent acquisitions left a lot to be desired. However, across the board they have a lot of young promising talent and they should be in position to take over the division after the Steelers and Ravens get too old in a year or two :)
 

texdawg

Waterboy
If Weeden and Gordon can be what they drafted him to be in 2-3 yrs, a team with Weeden, Richardson, Little and Gordon, man that's alot of young very talented weapons.

As a Browns fan, although this yr will probably be tough. You must be excited for the future.

BTW, Schwartz was a great draft pick. IMHO 10 yr starter the run game just improved immensely with the drafting of Richardson and Schwartz.

A very good under the radar pick is Benjamin. He's a playmaker. (Really fast in pads, good hands and route runner. Only thing is that he's short.) A better version of Holliday.
In previous years the Browns could not find the tunnel, let alone the light at the end of the tunnel. As a Browns fan I'm a little more optimistic after this draft.

As far as Colt goes, I really thought we got a steal in the 3rd round and an accurate west coast type of QB to fit Holmgrens style. Colt actually had some pretty good games early on. The more tape that other teams had on him and the Browns the more they saw that the Browns had no speed on the outside. Just like with Brady Quinn the playcalling was predictable short dump offs. And much like Brady Quinn, teams loaded the box and took a lot of that away from them.

I have been real concerned about Colt's arm. It always appeared (at least on TV) that his deep ball always had an arc on it like a punt. Not a good thing for a QB for obvious reasons. When I came to Houston to watch the Browns play the Texans last year, I was really paying attention to Colt's passing when he was warming up. I was watching the zip on his balls and comparing them to Schaub's. Colt seemed to be able to drive the ball fine with no arc. But when it comes to games anything over 20 yds downfield is almost a fair catch situation.

Certainly Colt would look a lot better with a better supporting cast. He's a great guy and one thing for sure, there is no questioning his heart.
 

Texas T

Veteran
Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?

Greg Little certainly will be a playmaker for them in the future, and Josh Cribbs has potential. Their TEs aren't bad either. The problem with the Browns last year had a lot to do with an ineffective run-game thanks to Peyton Hillis holding out for a new contract. The year before, each game that Colt "won" was thanks to Peyton Hillis bowling through defenses. That team is a run-first team for sure, so I expect Trent Richardson to make a huge impact, moreso than Weeden actually.
Okay Schwartz (I forgot they got him) may help, but he's only one guy.

I'm not sold on Richardson, he's never impressed me as a full time NFL back, but I could be wrong-so no I didn't count him.

Little-I'll buy in on that-he should develop but Cribbs...not so much (great return man though).

I will completely agree with your comment about the ineffective (read non-existent) run game. Huge issue mixed with the not stellar O-Line, the opposing D-Line could focus on getting to the QB, and they were able to.
 
Okay Schwartz (I forgot they got him) may help, but he's only one guy.

I'm not sold on Richardson, he's never impressed me as a full time NFL back, but I could be wrong-so no I didn't count him.

Little-I'll buy in on that-he should develop but Cribbs...not so much (great return man though).

I will completely agree with your comment about the ineffective (read non-existent) run game. Huge issue mixed with the not stellar O-Line, the opposing D-Line could focus on getting to the QB, and they were able to.
Trent Richardson is the heralded RB out of Alabama. Tough to impress as a full-time NFL back considering he's yet to play a down in the NFL.
 

BCRich

Waterboy
The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:

1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him
Sounds exactly like Drew Brees.

[talks-to-self]No. No.. that's not right. Colt McCoy's career has not been exactly like Drew Brees' up to this point. What other word can I use to imply there are some similarities? Something short of Exactly... something more than none...... ????? I know[/talks-to-self]

Sounds kinda like Drew Brees.


[talks-to-self]Man I'm Glad the moderators don't act like they have a telephone pole up their ass[/talks-to-self]
 

BCRich

Waterboy
I was referring to Brees of the Chargers which was a five year stint. Dude quoted two specific points Lucky made and neither applied. Maybe if San Diego had given up on Brees and tried to trade him after year two or even three there would be some comparison. Instead Brees had a 104 QB rating in his 4th year and was franchised in his 5th (and named to the pro-bowl again). Then they offered him a $50 mil contract despite having paid Rivers for two years.
Let's take it line by line.

The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:

1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
It was actually after Brees' third season that they drafted Phillip Rivers in 2004. Brees started one game as a rookie, but started 16 games his second year & 11 games his third year. QB ratings of 76.9 & 67.5 respectively.

Were the Chargers thinking they had their QB of the future after his second year as a starter? Or did they draft his replacement?

Before you answer & get it wrong, they drafted his replacement.

2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him
So they franchised him... highest tender? Did they get a first for him? Did someon make them an offer & give up two 2s (like we did for Schaub) instead? Or did he hit FA? Maybe there were teams that would have given up a 7th rounder for him & the Chargers said, "Thanks, but no thanks."

Keep in mind, we don't know that no one offered the Browns as much as a 7th only to have the Browns turn them down.

Not exactly the same, I know. Before you hit me with that one again, I never said it was exactly the same.
 

Texas T

Veteran
Trent Richardson is the heralded RB out of Alabama. Tough to impress as a full-time NFL back considering he's yet to play a down in the NFL.
I realize that he's a rookie, I was commenting on the fact that people were saying is that he was ready to be a full time back prior to the draft. I guess I should have clarified that when I saw him playing college ball at Alabama last year, he never impressed me. I also realize that he was a first round pick, from Alabama, and "NFL ready". Sound like anyone else you know??
 

BCRich

Waterboy
Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?

Greg Little certainly will be a playmaker for them in the future, and Josh Cribbs has potential. Their TEs aren't bad either. The problem with the Browns last year had a lot to do with an ineffective run-game thanks to Peyton Hillis holding out for a new contract. The year before, each game that Colt "won" was thanks to Peyton Hillis bowling through defenses. That team is a run-first team for sure, so I expect Trent Richardson to make a huge impact, moreso than Weeden actually.
The run game is very important to the Browns. The running game & their defense should keep the other team off the field. The offense needs to get better at putting up poiints, don't get me wrong. Drafting a RB & QB in the first round & a second round OG/RT, that shouldn't be a problem.
 

Rey

Guest
I realize that he's a rookie, I was commenting on the fact that people were saying is that he was ready to be a full time back prior to the draft. I guess I should have clarified that when I saw him playing college ball at Alabama last year, he never impressed me. I also realize that he was a first round pick, from Alabama, and "NFL ready". Sound like anyone else you know??
I agree. I think he's a better player than kjax though, but I didnt see special when I watched him play.
 

BullBlitz

Section 331
I think that it is pretty tough to evaluate Colt, or any QB, with that Browns offense. If the opportunity presented itself, I'd bring him in over TJ.
 

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
*Revisit SNL "Point - Counterpoint"

Jane, you ignorant slut!

Jim Plunkett. Brett Favre.



*disclaimer to those that don't know I can be sarcastic, sardonic and facetious, all at the same time*
 


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