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I think he can be a very productive starter. I doubt anyone could have done much better if any in the situation he was in last year. His best WR is comparable to our Jacoby Jones. His best RB had strep throat & couldn't play 8 games or something silly like that.Where do you see his upside? Any chance he can be an NFL starter again? Writing is on the wall in Cleveland.
Not Tom Brady? Aaron Rodgers?I think he can be a very productive starter. I doubt anyone could have done much better if any in the situation he was in last year.
You've kind of lowered the bar, there. And Cleveland definitely thought they had a problem at QB.I think he would have done better than Curtis Painter in Indy.
I don't think Cleveland's problem is their QB.
Surely those guys would have done better. But I doubt Brady would have had the year he had in 2011 with the Patriots, nor would Rodgers look like Superman.Not Tom Brady? Aaron Rodgers?
The point wasn't about lowering the bar, but highlighting the tools he would have had in Indy versus what he had in Clevland. Reggie Wayne & Pierre Garcon would have helped Colt look much better than he did in Cleveland.You've kind of lowered the bar, there. And Cleveland definitely thought they had a problem at QB.
His upside is Charlie Batch or Jeff Garcia, but he's being replaced because he isn't that big - fingers crossed when he's hit, and doesn't have the arm to drive the ball in a windy stadium. He's a good guy and I'm not trying to knock him but if he is starting, you're looking for a quarterback.I think Colt could be a serviceable starter.
Big difference. Colt, imo, still has that will to win. He might be making mistakes trying to force it, but he's still standing tall when he needs to stand tall, picking up yards when he needs to pick up yards, and giving the other guys an opportunity to make a play when the team needs someone to make a play.His offensive line was pretty god-awful last season. I was thinking he needed better protection.
That was before Holmgren drafted a QB in the 1st round. Now I just think they've gone as far as they can with the guy.
One thing that I've learned as a Texans fan is this:
It's not always the offensive line's fault. I think everyone who watched the team from 2002-2006 knows what I'm getting at.
I thought it was lack of testicular fortitude as the cause of absence.His best RB had strep throat & couldn't play 8 games or something silly like that.
This was his main problem last year (okay and no other playmakers on Offense) I don't think that there's a QB in the league who could have succeeded on that Brown's team (yes I'm including Brady and Rodgers). Maybe Rothlesburger would have been okay because he's one tough SOB and hard to bring down. QBs are very ineffective as a group while running for their life.His offensive line was pretty god-awful last season. I was thinking he needed better protection.
Comparable as in just as good? Or skill set wise?Yep,
I would give up a 5/6th for McCoy to backup Schaub.
In fact at the same stages of their careers I would say Colt and Schaub are very comparable.
I agree, but I'm not really comparing them as QB's. I guess I'm just comparing the situation.Big difference. Colt, imo, still has that will to win. He might be making mistakes trying to force it, but he's still standing tall when he needs to stand tall, picking up yards when he needs to pick up yards, and giving the other guys an opportunity to make a play when the team needs someone to make a play.
2002-2004, we had a QB that was doing the same for us. It wasn't until (midway through 2004) 2005, that I thought the will to win was beat out of him. He just didn't give a crap. Rather take a sack than throw an INT or give a receiver an opportunity to make a play. Rather hold on to the ball & run out of bounds behind the LOS than throw an incompletion, rather take the safe, four yard toss, than throw it to the guy wide open 15 yards down the field.
Colt hasn't got there yet.
That's what I thought. His line was crap. His receivers were crap. Even the Pro Bowl running back was crap.This was his main problem last year (okay and no other playmakers on Offense) I don't think that there's a QB in the league who could have succeeded on that Brown's team (yes I'm including Brady and Rodgers). Maybe Rothlesburger would have been okay because he's one tough SOB and hard to bring down. QBs are very ineffective as a group while running for their life.
I do think that Colt would be a very effective QB in the right place, now will anyone give him a chance with the Browns stench all over him??
Skill set and temperment wise.Comparable as in just as good? Or skill set wise?
Because both are completely different.
No other NFL team would, that's why McCoy is still with the Browns.I know that I would feel more comfortable with McCoy backing up Schaub than Yates next yr. Hence my being willing to give up a 5/6th rd pick for McCoy.
Sounds kinda like Drew Brees.The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:
1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him
You are correct sir.No other NFL team would, that's why McCoy is still with the Browns.
If McCoy and Yates were both on the free agent market, Yates would get picked up first. Yates has the eye of the tiger. McCoy looks like he accidentally fell into the Lions den. The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:
1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him
Kubiak and Smith could have dealt for McCoy and didn't. That should tell you what side of the argument they fall on.
Yeah, just alike 'cuz Colt has been with the Browns five years, nominated to the pro-bowl twice, played his last year under a franchise tag and then was offered a $50 mil contract even though there were injury concerns and a 1st round QB had been drafted.Sounds kinda like Drew Brees.
Or Steve Young. McCoy's going to the Hall of Fame! Or he could end up like the hundreds of other QBs who had poor starts to their career, and then fell of the face of the earth.Sounds kinda like Drew Brees.
What's Colt's record in the NFL? What's your point? No other team in the league (regardless of record) is looking to pickup McCoy.What's Rick/Garys record?
Somebody will pick him up towards the end of TC.Or Steve Young. McCoy's going to the Hall of Fame! Or he could end up like the hundreds of other QBs who had poor starts to their career, and then fell of the face of the earth.
What's Colt's record in the NFL? What's your point? No other team in the league (regardless of record) is looking to pickup McCoy.
Im guessing he meant Brees of the Chargers, who was crappy in his first 3 seasons. The Chargers then drafted his replacement (Rivers) and let him move on (to NO).Yeah, just alike 'cuz Colt has been with the Browns five years, nominated to the pro-bowl twice, played his last year under a franchise tag and then was offered a $50 mil contract even though there were injury concerns and a 1st round QB had been drafted.
I was referring to Brees of the Chargers which was a five year stint. Dude quoted two specific points Lucky made and neither applied. Maybe if San Diego had given up on Brees and tried to trade him after year two or even three there would be some comparison. Instead Brees had a 104 QB rating in his 4th year and was franchised in his 5th (and named to the pro-bowl again). Then they offered him a $50 mil contract despite having paid Rivers for two years.Im guessing he meant Brees of the Chargers, who was crappy in his first 3 seasons. The Chargers then drafted his replacement (Rivers) and let him move on (to NO).
The big difference is that Brees showed something while he was in his last season in SD. Way more than Colt has ever shown
Yep,I get that McCoy has a lot of support here, based upon the success he had at Texas. Just as Vince Young once had. But, McCoy has done nothing with the Browns that would suggest future success as a NFL QB. Colt still has fans in Texas, but there aren't any believers inside the NFL. So you can argue that he won in college, or that some great QBs struggled initially, as well. You just can't argue that McCoy has played well in the NFL.
This is my thought on the matter. I'm not saying that he is guaranteed to be a great hall of fame QB but I do think he's better than he looked in Cleveland. We'll all know if he was the problem there or not after this year. The Browns did nothing to shore up their O-line, or acquire any playmakers. I have a strong vision of Weedon doing about the same as Colt did there. Based on that, I don't think that anyone has a real idea on how he'd do on a "real" NFL team.Yep,
Colt hasn't played well.
But I would like to see him with a WR like AJ, a RB like Foster and a really good OL.
Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?This is my thought on the matter. I'm not saying that he is guaranteed to be a great hall of fame QB but I do think he's better than he looked in Cleveland. We'll all know if he was the problem there or not after this year. The Browns did nothing to shore up their O-line, or acquire any playmakers. I have a strong vision of Weedon doing about the same as Colt did there. Based on that, I don't think that anyone has a real idea on how he'd do on a "real" NFL team.
If Weeden and Gordon can be what they drafted him to be in 2-3 yrs, a team with Weeden, Richardson, Little and Gordon, man that's alot of young very talented weapons.Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?
Greg Little certainly will be a playmaker for them in the future, and Josh Cribbs has potential. Their TEs aren't bad either. The problem with the Browns last year had a lot to do with an ineffective run-game thanks to Peyton Hillis holding out for a new contract. The year before, each game that Colt "won" was thanks to Peyton Hillis bowling through defenses. That team is a run-first team for sure, so I expect Trent Richardson to make a huge impact, moreso than Weeden actually.
Yeah, I think the Browns need another 2 years to develop, but they are on the right track. I liked the Richardson and Schwartz picks in the past draft, and I'm OK with the Weeden pick, but the rest of the draft wasn't that great IMO. Plus their free agent acquisitions left a lot to be desired. However, across the board they have a lot of young promising talent and they should be in position to take over the division after the Steelers and Ravens get too old in a year or twoIf Weeden and Gordon can be what they drafted him to be in 2-3 yrs, a team with Weeden, Richardson, Little and Gordon, man that's alot of young very talented weapons.
As a Browns fan, although this yr will probably be tough. You must be excited for the future.
BTW, Schwartz was a great draft pick. IMHO 10 yr starter the run game just improved immensely with the drafting of Richardson and Schwartz.
A very good under the radar pick is Benjamin. He's a playmaker. (Really fast in pads, good hands and route runner. Only thing is that he's short.) A better version of Holliday.
In previous years the Browns could not find the tunnel, let alone the light at the end of the tunnel. As a Browns fan I'm a little more optimistic after this draft.If Weeden and Gordon can be what they drafted him to be in 2-3 yrs, a team with Weeden, Richardson, Little and Gordon, man that's alot of young very talented weapons.
As a Browns fan, although this yr will probably be tough. You must be excited for the future.
BTW, Schwartz was a great draft pick. IMHO 10 yr starter the run game just improved immensely with the drafting of Richardson and Schwartz.
A very good under the radar pick is Benjamin. He's a playmaker. (Really fast in pads, good hands and route runner. Only thing is that he's short.) A better version of Holliday.
Okay Schwartz (I forgot they got him) may help, but he's only one guy.Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?
Greg Little certainly will be a playmaker for them in the future, and Josh Cribbs has potential. Their TEs aren't bad either. The problem with the Browns last year had a lot to do with an ineffective run-game thanks to Peyton Hillis holding out for a new contract. The year before, each game that Colt "won" was thanks to Peyton Hillis bowling through defenses. That team is a run-first team for sure, so I expect Trent Richardson to make a huge impact, moreso than Weeden actually.
Trent Richardson is the heralded RB out of Alabama. Tough to impress as a full-time NFL back considering he's yet to play a down in the NFL.Okay Schwartz (I forgot they got him) may help, but he's only one guy.
I'm not sold on Richardson, he's never impressed me as a full time NFL back, but I could be wrong-so no I didn't count him.
Little-I'll buy in on that-he should develop but Cribbs...not so much (great return man though).
I will completely agree with your comment about the ineffective (read non-existent) run game. Huge issue mixed with the not stellar O-Line, the opposing D-Line could focus on getting to the QB, and they were able to.
Sounds exactly like Drew Brees.The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:
1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him
Let's take it line by line.I was referring to Brees of the Chargers which was a five year stint. Dude quoted two specific points Lucky made and neither applied. Maybe if San Diego had given up on Brees and tried to trade him after year two or even three there would be some comparison. Instead Brees had a 104 QB rating in his 4th year and was franchised in his 5th (and named to the pro-bowl again). Then they offered him a $50 mil contract despite having paid Rivers for two years.
It was actually after Brees' third season that they drafted Phillip Rivers in 2004. Brees started one game as a rookie, but started 16 games his second year & 11 games his third year. QB ratings of 76.9 & 67.5 respectively.The only two things I need to know about McCoy are:
1) His team saw enough over 2 seasons to draft his replacement
So they franchised him... highest tender? Did they get a first for him? Did someon make them an offer & give up two 2s (like we did for Schaub) instead? Or did he hit FA? Maybe there were teams that would have given up a 7th rounder for him & the Chargers said, "Thanks, but no thanks."2) No other NFL team would trade as much as a 7th rounder for him
Also kinda like Quincy Carter, JP Losman, Patrick Ramsey, Brodie Croyle, Trent Edwards, Matt Leinart, and....Chris Simms.Sounds kinda like Drew Brees
I realize that he's a rookie, I was commenting on the fact that people were saying is that he was ready to be a full time back prior to the draft. I guess I should have clarified that when I saw him playing college ball at Alabama last year, he never impressed me. I also realize that he was a first round pick, from Alabama, and "NFL ready". Sound like anyone else you know??Trent Richardson is the heralded RB out of Alabama. Tough to impress as a full-time NFL back considering he's yet to play a down in the NFL.
The run game is very important to the Browns. The running game & their defense should keep the other team off the field. The offense needs to get better at putting up poiints, don't get me wrong. Drafting a RB & QB in the first round & a second round OG/RT, that shouldn't be a problem.Ummm, Trent Richardson is not a playmaker? Mitchell Schwartz isn't going to help shore up their O-line?
Greg Little certainly will be a playmaker for them in the future, and Josh Cribbs has potential. Their TEs aren't bad either. The problem with the Browns last year had a lot to do with an ineffective run-game thanks to Peyton Hillis holding out for a new contract. The year before, each game that Colt "won" was thanks to Peyton Hillis bowling through defenses. That team is a run-first team for sure, so I expect Trent Richardson to make a huge impact, moreso than Weeden actually.
Also kinda like Brady Quinn, Quincy Carter, JP Losman, Patrick Ramsey, Brodie Croyle, Trent Edwards, and....Chris Simms.Sounds kinda like Drew Brees
I agree. I think he's a better player than kjax though, but I didnt see special when I watched him play.I realize that he's a rookie, I was commenting on the fact that people were saying is that he was ready to be a full time back prior to the draft. I guess I should have clarified that when I saw him playing college ball at Alabama last year, he never impressed me. I also realize that he was a first round pick, from Alabama, and "NFL ready". Sound like anyone else you know??
true...Also kinda like Quincy Carter, JP Losman, Patrick Ramsey, Brodie Croyle, Trent Edwards, Matt Leinart, and....Chris Simms.
Yeah I guess the sky was still the limit for JaMarcus Russell after two years of starting as well.true...
Two years into their careers, the sky was still the limit.
True.Yeah I guess the sky was still the limit for JaMarcus Russell after two years of starting as well.
The Browns offense could just as easily say it was tough to evaluate them with McCoy at QB.I think that it is pretty tough to evaluate Colt, or any QB, with that Browns offense.