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Clowney, then what?

I pointed out in that tape places where Clowney DOES make some outstanding plays. And I've said over and over again that he does.

But.

There's a reason why most people don't talk about Clowney having a high motor. That's not saying he's not a physical freak or that he can't make some amazing plays... when he chooses to. But he doesn't choose to nearly as much as JJ Watt does.

When Watt came out, EVERYONE talked about him as a high motor guy. Several people on this board were hoping we would choose him (I was not one of those because I didn't think they were really going to move Mario to OLB and didn't think we'd go that high on a 3-4 DE.) But I haven't heard anyone say Clowney is a high motor guy and I haven't seen a high motor guy with Clowney on any of his 2013 tape I've seen.

It's fine if that's what you believe (not being a high-motor'd as Watt doesn't make you have a low motor, and there are plenty of examples of Clowney 'making plays' with motor - not sure if there's a difference), but you shouldn't use examples of Clowney slowing down when he sees another teammate making a tackle as him having a 'low motor' when you see Watt doing the same thing in college.

*** NOTE: I have to say it. I'm just joking. Don't take this the wrong way but... it's even harder to have energy in the 4th quarter when you come into the season out of shape. Sorry. It was just there. Had to take it. :)

Is this a reference to the UNC game where he was sick?
 
I'm not against a trade however if we are making a trade we better be getting the better half of the deal long term; i.e. picks and productivity from the picks. As much as I believe Clowney is going to be a stud I could be enticed to sell him to the highest bidder.
 
to move to 6 id say we should get at least next years 1 and a 2nd this year. or id do 6 and a 2nd and a 3rd this year.
Otherwise, id keep clowney.
 
Cam signed for number 1 slot money, from where he was picked. Aldon for number 7. No big deal.

Cam wouldn't have wanted to settle for number 7 money if he had been traded to San Fran after having been picked first overall, though. But San Fran would have been married to number 7 slot money for him if they had already picked out of that slot.

Hence, making the money work is the problem if you're to make the trade after you make the pick.

Can you please provide any CBA sections providing the restrictions you are discussing?

And BTW, if anybody doubts who's the most highly valued prospect in this Draft, well I challenge you to step up and show any trade scenario with the Texans for their 1.1 that's being discussed that doesn't involve a team interested in landing Clowney.

Put your pom-poms down for a second and you will see other scenarios with the most discussed one being the Browns moving up for a QB - specifically Manziel. Yes Clowney is by far the most discussed target but he is not the only one.
 
Bottom line for me on Clowney is

1. Is he willing to have the bone spur surgery directly after the draft.

As soon as he & his agents decided he would not be doing any more workouts, he should have been on the prep table, under the knife.
 
breaking news.
my sources indicate that clowney is having another workout session with the atlanta falcons. this all but cements my prediction that falcons and texans will swap picks.

Who are your sources, ESPN and the nfl network? They have both been taking about this for days.
 
It's fine if that's what you believe (not being a high-motor'd as Watt doesn't make you have a low motor, and there are plenty of examples of Clowney 'making plays' with motor - not sure if there's a difference), but you shouldn't use examples of Clowney slowing down when he sees another teammate making a tackle as him having a 'low motor' when you see Watt doing the same thing in college.

Well said. Especially when the play is half way a cross the field.
 
Can you please provide any CBA sections providing the restrictions you are discussing?
Phil Savage ‏@SeniorBowlPhil
NYG did it in '04 w/ Eli thru one-time bonus based on 35% playtime in YR1, that feature not part of current CBA.

Before selection, slots are traded. After selection, teams are married to slot. Tough to fit Clowney into #6 pool.


...you will see other scenarios with the most discussed one being the Browns moving up for a QB - specifically Manziel. Yes Clowney is by far the most discussed target but he is not the only one.

I think the only people floating those rumors are in Houston. I'm not seeing the need for Cleveland to move up for Manziel. Watkins, maybe...?

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Why Texans want to stay Top 5 RT @AlbertBreer: Have heard consistently there's a 4-player top tier -- Clowney, Watkins, Robinson, Mack

Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks
Talking with personnel guys, they all have the same names in their top 5: Clowney, Mack, Watkins, Robinson & Matthews. Order 1-5 varies
 
Can you please provide any CBA sections providing the restrictions you are discussing?

Article 7
section 3, part (j)

This area gives the parameters. Basically saying that each team has their amount of money to use for each pick and for the total of the draft and that's that. The sections before it speak on the rookie wage limitation's inherent to each pick.
 
It's fine if that's what you believe (not being a high-motor'd as Watt doesn't make you have a low motor, and there are plenty of examples of Clowney 'making plays' with motor - not sure if there's a difference), but you shouldn't use examples of Clowney slowing down when he sees another teammate making a tackle as him having a 'low motor' when you see Watt doing the same thing in college.

I don't understand what our communication breakdown is.

Showing me one play of Watt playing with a low motor or one play of Clowney playing with a high motor doesn't make Watt a low motor guy ro Clowney a high motor guy. Watt is a high motor guy because on most plays, he keeps playing until the whistle. What makes Clowney a low motor guy is because on most plays, he doesn't. What makes you one or the other is about an accumulation of plays not what you did on a single play.

And I'm not talking about plays where Clowney slows down because he thinks the guy was already tackled.

I don't really understand the mentality where you have to present the player you like as being pristine and having no warts and being an absolutely perfect player while all the other players who could be rivals for his spot being crap. All players have warts, none of them are perfect.

Clowney has warts. He has all the physical gifts in the world, but he didn't have great production on the field this past season. He can make plays and dominate a game, but he can also disappear. He has plays where he's unstoppable, and then he has plays where he stops himself.

If we take him 1-1, I'll be fine with that. But I will be worried that he's going to be a complete wash-out because I don't know how much or how hard he wants to play. That's just my opinion and I know that you don't share it and there's no way to convince you of it. And because of my concerns and your lack of them, we're each going to look at the same play and see totally different things.

You asked for plays that worried me, I gave them to you. They don't worry you. Fine. They still worry me.
 
Can you please provide any CBA sections providing the restrictions you are discussing?



Put your pom-poms down for a second and you will see other scenarios with the most discussed one being the Browns moving up for a QB - specifically Manziel. Yes Clowney is by far the most discussed target but he is not the only one.
Right, moving up from 26 to get him in the low twenties or maybe somewhere in teens. No, I'm talking about doing business with the Texans for their 1.1. So I say again, I see no such talk about any team moving all the way up to bid for any prospect not named Clowney.
 
I don't understand what our communication breakdown is.

Showing me one play of Watt playing with a low motor or one play of Clowney playing with a high motor doesn't make Watt a low motor guy ro Clowney a high motor guy. Watt is a high motor guy because on most plays, he keeps playing until the whistle. What makes Clowney a low motor guy is because on most plays, he doesn't. What makes you one or the other is about an accumulation of plays not what you did on a single play.

I'm not talking about singular plays; it's why I linked you a whole video. I'm saying that I think people are coming into any evaluation of Clowney with biases that A) He is 'low effort' or has a poor motor and that B) Watt (or some idealized version in one's head) is 100% on every single snap. My point in providing that video is proof that B) isn't true, and A) is questionable considering B).

And I'm not talking about plays where Clowney slows down because he thinks the guy was already tackled.

Well then you'll have to distinguish them; are you talking about obvious pass-rush snaps vs. running play snaps, is Clowney allowed to run at the QB or is he being asked to set the edge, etc.

I don't really understand the mentality where you have to present the player you like as being pristine and having no warts and being an absolutely perfect player while all the other players who could be rivals for his spot being crap. All players have warts, none of them are perfect.[/quote]

Where am I saying Clowney is some pristine player? You can evaluate another's own take while evaluating a player objectively. I don't see what Clowney is doing as much different from guys like Watt (though Watt is called high-motor for a reason); diving into piles can get you injured or even flagged, along with my point about getting gassed - being in shape or otherwise.

Clowney has warts. He has all the physical gifts in the world, but he didn't have great production on the field this past season. He can make plays and dominate a game, but he can also disappear. He has plays where he's unstoppable, and then he has plays where he stops himself.

He didn't have great production because he often got nearly twice as much attention from offenses than his peers, or rarely ran plays in his direction. This is no different than what the Rams did to Watt last season: they limited in their game plans as much as possible. That's why you see teammates of Clowney like Kelcy Quarles go from 3.5 sacks as a 4-3 DT to nearly 10 in the span of a year while Clowney dropped off. Using statistical production sorely to judge Clowney is missing the point entirely.

If we take him 1-1, I'll be fine with that. But I will be worried that he's going to be a complete wash-out because I don't know how much or how hard he wants to play. That's just my opinion and I know that you don't share it and there's no way to convince you of it. And because of my concerns and your lack of them, we're each going to look at the same play and see totally different things.

You asked for plays that worried me, I gave them to you. They don't worry you. Fine. They still worry me.

If nothing else, Clowney is the best talent in the draft, and considering whom his teachers and teammates will be (and the legacy of Willie McGinest, if nothing else), I think Houston is the best-possible place for him to develop. Sending him to Atlanta where he would basically be the only real pass rushing threat would make those warts of him even worse - assuming them to be true and not a product of offensive scheming as I point out above.
 
I'm not talking about singular plays; it's why I linked you a whole video. I'm saying that I think people are coming into any evaluation of Clowney with biases that A) He is 'low effort' or has a poor motor and that B) Watt (or some idealized version in one's head) is 100% on every single snap. My point in providing that video is proof that B) isn't true, and A) is questionable considering B).

I don't see how you can watch that video of JJ Watt and that video of Jadeveon Clowney and not see an entirely different level of effort.

There's just nothing more to say after that.
 
I don't see how you can watch that video of JJ Watt and that video of Jadeveon Clowney and not see an entirely different level of effort.

There's just nothing more to say after that.

Like the second play of the Michigan State game where Watt slows down after seeing the linebacker make the tackle? Or were we talking about Clowney? :p

EDIT: Not to mention Michigan State isn't pulling near-constant quick passing like UNC. There is a large difference of effort between the videos, as you say, but I think it's more to do with how much attention they put on Watt vs Clowney.
 
Like the second play of the Michigan State game where Watt slows down after seeing the linebacker make the tackle? Or were we talking about Clowney? :p

No.

Clowney slows down as soon as the play is going away from him and before anyone makes a tackle, before anyone even comes close to making a tackle. And when he goes to the ground, he doesn't get back up and run after the play like Watt does. On one play, he gets up and talks to the tackle who blocked him to the ground instead of chasing after the RB the QB flipped the ball to.

EDIT: Not to mention Michigan State isn't pulling near-constant quick passing like UNC. There is a large difference of effort between the videos, as you say, but I think it's more to do with how much attention they put on Watt vs Clowney.

I don't.
 
Trade down, probably end up with Matthews/Mack, and then use the extra ammo to jump back in the first for Bortles. That's probably their #1 plan.
 
No.

Clowney slows down as soon as the play is going away from him and before anyone makes a tackle, before anyone even comes close to making a tackle. And when he goes to the ground, he doesn't get back up and run after the play like Watt does. On one play, he gets up and talks to the tackle who blocked him to the ground instead of chasing after the RB the QB flipped the ball to.

So the fact that I can point to Watt do the same thing doesn't mean anything because it doesn't fit with your prejudices?


Well alright I guess.
 
The play at "around 1:40" is actually the play BEFORE the one you showed. He's initially doubled, sees the play going the other way, slows down, and then the running back hits him a second time.

To your first comment, I'm not drafting #70 or #99 with the #1 overall pick.

The point is that you are saying he is loafing when it's clear that TWO OTHER DL team mates are seeing exactly what he is seeing and reacting EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. He is doing what 99.9 % of all players in his position would of done.

To the second, if you watch a little further, they show a replay where you can watch Clowney better. To my eye, he could have pursued more and harder.

You mean this play?



you do see where after he disengages from the blocker that he has to jump over some players on the ground? By the time he lands on his feet the RB is 10 to 15 yards down the field.


If it was just one or two plays here or there -- especially at the end of the game -- I'd agree with you. But the fact is that it isn't. He could have shown more want-to on a lot of plays. If it were just he could have tried a little harder on this play or that play, that would be fine.

I understand where you are coming from but I just don't see it in the plays you have pointed out. In these plays he's not doing anything that almost every other defensive players do in these situations.

And that's why when you talk about high-motor guys, you don't talk about Jadeveon Clowney, that's why so many people are down on him because of his motor. High-motor guys pursue harder, try harder, work harder. That's not saying that high-motor guys don't have some plays where they couldn't have tried harder but most of the time, high-motor guys are chasing after the ball and continuing to play hard until the whistle blows.


What you are talking about is VERY RARE!!!! Honestly, what percentage of NFL players actually play the way you're suggesting? This whole idea that Clowney is lazy and takes plays off is WAY OVER BLOWN!!!!!!! Does he do it occasionally, off course he does. OCCASIONALLY!!!!! The number of times he does it and when he does it isn't any different than what the vast majority does.

Look he and Manziel were the most scrutinized players in all of football last year. Both have been under a microscope so much that every little detail about them has been sensationalized and exaggerated because their past success made them such hot topics. It's all about clicks and views.

With Manzeil the big news story was his off field behavior. When is the last time you seen a player so ridiculed who didn't really do anything bad? You can turn on sports radio anytime and hear caller after caller go off on how he is a piece of crap spoiled rotten entitled turd. Really, what did he do to deserve that reputation? Regardless a lot of people now hate Manziel because of all his “off field discrepancies”.

In the aftermath of all that Manziel couldn’t do any right. Even though he was having a better year than the year before when he won the Heisman, he was criticized about everything he did even when it had positive results. He threw up 4 or 5 ill advised passes throughout the entire season and all you hear is “all he does is throw it up for grabs”. He scrambles and makes big plays and all you hear is “if you take away his scrambling he has nothing”. That’s despite the fact that he showed improvement in the pocket from the previous season and was as good from the pocket numbers wise as any of the other top QB prospects.

Now back to Clowney. With Clowney it was no different. Despite the fact that he had been a dominating defensive player since the first time he ever stepped on a football field, he was having a down year stats wise so there had to be a reason. Couldn’t be a series of simple things combined with the fact that teams game planned against him at a level that is rarely seen. Nope he’s loafer and take plays off. His motor doesn’t rev high enough. Yeh he got the reputation as a once in a generation talent by loafing around and taking plays off. Riiiight!!!!!

Is either of them perfect? NO~!! But the majority of criticism they both receive is a product of their popularity. They are the most talked about and polarizings players in all of college football. Anytime a player is in the headlines as much as these guys they are going to be over analyzed and unfairly critiqued.

Both players need to improve their skillets. Go back and look through every draft and tell me how many prospects were perfect. I can only think of one and I have been keeping up with the draft for a very long time. Manziel needs to improve his pocket awareness, stop (occasionally) throwing up jump balls and understand that his health is more important than any one play. Clowney needs to develop his pass rush moves. As of now he has a bull rush and an arm over move and that’s about it. Up to this point that is all he has needed.

I don’t think either is a sure thing but I sure don’t think either is as big a risk as the popular opinion either. Both of them have incredible talent and in the right situation will be very good players IMO. I would love to have either one of them on our team.

All this is JMO.
 
What you are talking about is VERY RARE!!!! Honestly, what percentage of NFL players actually play the way you're suggesting? This whole idea that Clowney is lazy and takes plays off is WAY OVER BLOWN!!!!!!! Does he do it occasionally, off course he does. OCCASIONALLY!!!!! The number of times he does it and when he does it isn't any different than what the vast majority does.

That statement right there is my problem.

I'm not saying that other players don't do what he does. I'm not even saying that JJ Watt doesn't do it on occasion.

What I'm saying is that what separates a guy with a high mother from a guy with a normal motor from a guy with a low motor is the number of times that they do it.

As you say -- EXACTLY as you say -- Clowney is doing exactly what the vast majority of players do: he doesn't hustle as much as I'd like. I pointed out some plays where he could have hustled and done something different and better than what he did. It's not any individual play that's the problem; it's the number of them that's the problem.

Also, I'm not saying that Clowney isn't 1-1 material. I'm not saying we shouldn't draft him. I'm saying that his motor is a concern. I'm not saying that because I heard a bunch of guys on ESPN/NFLN say it; I'm saying it because I've looked at several of his games and I see a pattern of not being a high motor guy. For me, that's a concern.

When I first saw his play and heard about all talk going around about him, about his work ethic, about coming into the season out of shape, about him sitting out games and having his coach call him out to get him motivated, I had him totally off my board at 1-1. BUT. As the draft process has gone on and I've seen more and looked at other things and thought about it and heard other opinions, I've changed. I'm fine with him at 1-1 now.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not concerned about his motor giving him a chance to bust. I haven't spoken to this guy and even if I had, I can't look into his heart and understand his motivations. I've seen very talented guys like him bust because of that lack of motor and work-ethic.

So I think I'm justified in being worried.

That's just my opinion on this.
 
That statement right there is my problem.

I'm not saying that other players don't do what he does. I'm not even saying that JJ Watt doesn't do it on occasion.

What I'm saying is that what separates a guy with a high mother from a guy with a normal motor from a guy with a low motor is the number of times that they do it.

As you say -- EXACTLY as you say -- Clowney is doing exactly what the vast majority of players do: he doesn't hustle as much as I'd like. I pointed out some plays where he could have hustled and done something different and better than what he did. It's not any individual play that's the problem; it's the number of them that's the problem.

Also, I'm not saying that Clowney isn't 1-1 material. I'm not saying we shouldn't draft him. I'm saying that his motor is a concern. I'm not saying that because I heard a bunch of guys on ESPN/NFLN say it; I'm saying it because I've looked at several of his games and I see a pattern of not being a high motor guy. For me, that's a concern.

When I first saw his play and heard about all talk going around about him, about his work ethic, about coming into the season out of shape, about him sitting out games and having his coach call him out to get him motivated, I had him totally off my board at 1-1. BUT. As the draft process has gone on and I've seen more and looked at other things and thought about it and heard other opinions, I've changed. I'm fine with him at 1-1 now.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not concerned about his motor giving him a chance to bust. I haven't spoken to this guy and even if I had, I can't look into his heart and understand his motivations. I've seen very talented guys like him bust because of that lack of motor and work-ethic.

So I think I'm justified in being worried.

That's just my opinion on this.

Nice back and forth thanks. MSR.
 
Or vice versa.

Nothing you've shown me tells me that Clowney is somehow doing anything differently, nor have you shown me that your idealized version of play is actually what occurs in the NFL. You've also conspicuously dropped your point about production and haven't addressed evidence of Clowney getting extra attention as a result, and now only point to Clowney slowing down as a tackle is made or (as Mussop points out) plays where Clowney doesn't immediately make it to the backfield...aside from times where he's done that all year and throughout his college career?

Don't talk about prejudices and then make no attempt to self-examine, Neck. Yeesh.
 
Nothing you've shown me tells me that Clowney is somehow doing anything differently, nor have you shown me that your idealized version of play is actually what occurs in the NFL. You've also conspicuously dropped your point about production and haven't addressed evidence of Clowney getting extra attention as a result, and now only point to Clowney slowing down as a tackle is made or (as Mussop points out) plays where Clowney doesn't immediately make it to the backfield...aside from times where he's done that all year and throughout his college career?

Don't talk about prejudices and then make no attempt to self-examine, Neck. Yeesh.

Agreed... Here is what I would like explained to me by all the Clowney fans:

Didn't dominant college players prior to Clowney require the attention of double/triple teams? Why were they able to still produce results, despite the attention and Clowney was not able to in 2013?- Players that physically gifted are able to overcome the attention in college because of the disparity of talent. I have never seen a player with so little production being so highly regarded by fans and media draftniks. What explains the 3 sacks? It simply can't be that he was schemed against more than any other player in college football history.
 
Agreed... Here is what I would like explained to me by all the Clowney fans:

Didn't dominant college players prior to Clowney require the attention of double/triple teams? Why were they able to still produce results, despite the attention and Clowney was not able to in 2013?- Players that physically gifted are able to overcome the attention in college because of the disparity of talent. I have never seen a player with so little production being so highly regarded by fans and media draftniks. What explains the 3 sacks? It simply can't be that he was schemed against more than any other player in college football history.

Not a Clowney fan, but does the "his production dropped because he was playing to not get hurt" line have any traction? It has some merit on the face of it. He's going to be drafted very high in the 1st round unless he blows out a knee or has some other disasterous injury. Why go all out and risk it?
 
Not a Clowney fan, but does the "his production dropped because he was playing to not get hurt" line have any traction? It has some merit on the face of it. He's going to be drafted very high in the 1st round unless he blows out a knee or has some other disasterous injury. Why go all out and risk it?


I can't imagine that someone who loves the game would play without max effort.

It's really incomprehensible to me. Don't all Always try to be their best each and every play? I mean even when playing marbles, didn't you always try to win? I never knew anyone that went into a game of monopoly with the goal to lose.

I'm thinking if you have a competitive nature at all then the game time fire takes over.
 
I can't imagine that someone who loves the game would play without max effort.

It's really incomprehensible to me. Don't all Always try to be their best each and every play? I mean even when playing marbles, didn't you always try to win? I never knew anyone that went into a game of monopoly with the goal to lose.

I'm thinking if you have a competitive nature at all then the game time fire takes over.
How many times has a blown ACL in a game of marbles or monoply happened, and if it did happen, the injury cost millions of dollars in potential earnings?

Mettenberger and Murray would likely be ranked much higher than they are, but they're coming off of....ACL surgery.

I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just saying that there's potential there.
I'm not a Clowney fan and would much rather trade out of 1.1 than pick any player in this draft.
 
Not a Clowney fan, but does the "his production dropped because he was playing to not get hurt" line have any traction? It has some merit on the face of it. He's going to be drafted very high in the 1st round unless he blows out a knee or has some other disasterous injury. Why go all out and risk it?

Or maybe college teams realize to just set for the speed rush because he has nothing else. As I've stated,he's not a good pass rusher. People think he can be he one because of size and speed. They also thought the same about manny lawson.
 
Nothing you've shown me tells me that Clowney is somehow doing anything differently, nor have you shown me that your idealized version of play is actually what occurs in the NFL. You've also conspicuously dropped your point about production and haven't addressed evidence of Clowney getting extra attention as a result, and now only point to Clowney slowing down as a tackle is made or (as Mussop points out) plays where Clowney doesn't immediately make it to the backfield...aside from times where he's done that all year and throughout his college career?

Don't talk about prejudices and then make no attempt to self-examine, Neck. Yeesh.

What I'm saying is that you need to do the same thing.

If you have read my posts, then you should know WHY I'm not harping on the point about production any longer. I've mentioned it several times -- self-examination. Go back and check it out.

You, on the other hand, have latched on to the 25% vs. 12% special attention as though that supports your earlier assertions that he was getting double-teamed on almost every play and more than any college player in the history of the universe. Which. It doesn't.

You are consistently mis-characterizing my stance on the plays where I think Clowney could have showed more hustle while providing evidence -- JJ Watt's play in college -- that doesn't show me what you say it does. If you can't see the differences between high-motor play and average-to-low motor play, then I don't know what to tell you. If you're happy with play like MOST people exhibit where they just stand around or kinda jog after the play, if you're happy with that out of a 1-1 physical freak, if that doesn't concern you, then I don't know what to tell you.

As far as I'm concerned, this is at an agree-to-disagree impasse.
 
Or maybe college teams realize to just set for the speed rush because he has nothing else. As I've stated,he's not a good pass rusher. People think he can be he one because of size and speed. They also thought the same about manny lawson.

There are some who believed attention paid to Mario helped Manny Lawson produce. When teams started paying attention to Lawson, Mario was able to get his.

When teams started game-planning for Clowney, who started to produce?
 
Not a Clowney fan, but does the "his production dropped because he was playing to not get hurt" line have any traction? It has some merit on the face of it. He's going to be drafted very high in the 1st round unless he blows out a knee or has some other disasterous injury. Why go all out and risk it?

No doubt that should not be disregarded as a factor. But also there is no doubt that he played hurt last season. His bone spur affect on his performance has been documented repeated by Clowney, his coach and his teammates. Evidently, most people don't understand the implications of having painful bone spurs. There was a reason that Duane Brown opted to have a single bone spur addressed prior to last season.

Former South Carolina quarterback Connor Shaw said he believes Clowney was fighting an uphill battle against perception all last season

“I’ve been there. I’ve watched his work ethic over the summer. Jadeveon Clowney was in a lose-lose situation last year with the media and all the critics,” Shaw said, in an interview with Alex Marvez and Gil Brandt on Sirius XM NFL Radio. “The guy is an animal on and off the field. His work ethic in the weight room, I’ve seen it first hand and if you ask any of his teammates from South Carolina they’ll say the same thing.

“I think he will be a better NFL player than he was a college player. He absolutely wants to be the best. He’s very competitive and when he gets to that next level, he’ll step up to the stage.”

Clowney entered last season as the presumed top selection in this year’s draft. He wasn’t sneaking up on anyone after a dominant sophomore season at South Carolina. Shaw said opposing teams understandably made it a focal point to take Clowney out of the game.

“He had such a monster year his sophomore year that people just expected that the next year,” Shaw said. “Well, all of a sudden you have a tight end on him, a running back on him, your left tackle. He’s getting triple-teamed almost every down. It’s hard. People run away from him.

“He plays banged up. He tried to not let that leak out but he was hurt some of the season playing through injuries.”
link
 
There are some who believed attention paid to Mario helped Manny Lawson produce. When teams started paying attention to Lawson, Mario was able to get his.

When teams started game-planning for Clowney, who started to produce?

Quarels. Look at his stats the last two years.
 
Or maybe college teams realize to just set for the speed rush because he has nothing else. As I've stated,he's not a good pass rusher. People think he can be he one because of size and speed. They also thought the same about manny lawson.

If you don't see the difference between Lawson and Clowney there is no hope for you. :clown:
 
to move to 6 id say we should get at least next years 1 and a 2nd this year. or id do 6 and a 2nd and a 3rd this year.
Otherwise, id keep clowney.

I believe the deal they're looking at is a 2014 1st/2nd/4th or 5th plus a 2015 1st from the Falcons.
 
If you don't see the difference between Lawson and Clowney there is no hope for you. :clown:

Please tell me. Many lawson had better measurables and better production. Athlete trying to play football. Once again,the metric guy pointed out that in 2012, 80% of clowneys sacks were a result of pressure from other defensive players. Most notably,devin taylor. His freshman yr it was engram. His last season,spotlight bright,3 sacks,0 ff,and 24 tackles. Do the math. When the slacker know as mario williams was draft elgible 14 sacks,24 tfls,and 60 tackles. Von Miller? 68 tackles,17,tfls,and 10 sacks. Were these guys not doubled and tripled also?
 
Please tell me. Many lawson had better measurables and better production. Athlete trying to play football. Once again,the metric guy pointed out that in 2012, 80% of clowneys sacks were a result of pressure from other defensive players. Most notably,devin taylor. His freshman yr it was engram. His last season,spotlight bright,3 sacks,0 ff,and 24 tackles. Do the math. When the slacker know as mario williams was draft elgible 14 sacks,24 tfls,and 60 tackles. Von Miller? 68 tackles,17,tfls,and 10 sacks. Were these guys not doubled and tripled also?

My suggestion to you would be to stop putting so much stock into metrics, measureables and stupid ass stats. Every game Clowney has played in is available online. Watch the game tape!
 
My suggestion to you would be to stop putting so much stock into metrics, measureables and stupid ass stats. Every game Clowney has played in is available online. Watch the game tape!

But he's too busy trashing Clowney to take the time to study the tape.
 
2013:
Kelcy Quarles - 9.5
Jadeveon Clowney - 3
Chaz Sutton - 3

2012:
Jadeveon Clowney - 13
Aldrick Fordham - 5.5
Chaz Sutton - 5
Kelcy Quarles - 3.5
Devin Taylor - 3

2011:
Melvin Ingram - 10
Jadeveon Clowney - 8
Devin Taylor - 6
 
Hey, NFL, Clowney's on the way
There's no debating this, though: Clowney loves making big plays — and he's ready to do that from the outset at the next level.

"I think I work just as hard as anybody," Clowney says. "If you pick me and pair me with guys, I'm going to try and outwork them also."

Clowney has been pointed to the NFL ever since then-South Pointe High coach Bobby Carroll heard about the 6-foot-3 eighth grader walking through his team's weight room. "Who is that?" Carroll asked.

Now 6-6 and 266 pounds, Clowney has set off similar reactions throughout his life.

He's been a lightning rod for attention — and for those picking apart a talent that seems as promising as any to enter the league in quite a while.

He was criticized by some when he chose South Carolina in 2011 for putting off his college announcement nearly two weeks so he could hold a televised session on his birthday, Feb. 14.

Clowney's youth coaches say they had to stay on top of him to make sure he played up to his enormous potential. It was the same situation at South Carolina, where Clowney's physical ability, fast first step and innate skill at making the big play overshadowed any questions.

It seemed like smooth sailing for the friendly sophomore when he capped his most successful season (school records of 13 sacks and 23 1-2 tackles for loss) with his signature moment: a helmet-popping hit on Michigan's Vincent Smith in that year's Outback Bowl. Smith fumbled and Clowney reached over with one hand to palm the football — a sequence that became must-see Clowney.

He became a face of college football and his every move was videotaped, broken down and debated. Critics saw him breathing heavily in last season's opener against North Carolina and said he was out of shape. Some claimed his lack of production, with just three sacks last season, was because he was saving himself for a pro career.

Gamecocks coach Steve Spurrier didn't help, questioning his player's commitment when Clowney didn't suit up against Kentucky last October for what later turned out to be a strained muscle near his ribs.

Spurrier was displeased with his defensive star in the heat of the moment. "If doesn't want to play, he doesn't have to play. Simple as that," the coach said after beating Kentucky last Oct. 5.

Spurrier later acknowledged he was more upset that protocol for Clowney's absence wasn't followed, and says the Gamecocks wouldn't have this run of recent success — 33-6 the past three years — without Clowney on the field.

The scrutiny has intensified since Clowney announced after the Capital One Bowl in January he was giving up his final season of eligibility to go to the NFL. His judgment has been questioned regarding speeding tickets — two in December — and his limiting private workouts.

Just this week ESPN analyst Merrill Hoge said Clowney, while gifted, was "atrocious" when it came to the game's fundamentals. His ESPN colleague, Mel Kiper Jr., thinks Clowney has it all and should be the No. 1 pick.

"I don't know how you can take anybody over Clowney," Kiper said Wednesday. "He's a once-in-every-20-year guy."

Clowney tried to tune out the critics and concentrate on preparing for the NFL. His skills look as honed as ever after running a 4.53 second 40-yard dash time at the NFL combine in February, and putting on a show at South Carolina's pro day earlier this month. Among those attending were Texans coach Bill O'Brien, defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and general manager Rick Smith, all contemplating what to do with that top pick.

Is Clowney tired of effort questions?

"I've been tired of it, but you have to keep doing it," he said.

Gamecocks defensive coordinator Lorenzo Ward said Clowney has things to work on, such as improving his play against the run. But "the NFL is a passing league and that's what he is gifted at doing," Ward said. "It's not like he has to play run every down. He can chase the quarterback a lot and they can use him schematically to do that."

Ward believes Clowney earned some of the inquiries coming his way.

"I think there is a lot of good and bad to some of the things that happened to JD," he said. "I think some of the situations that happened, he put himself in."

For Carroll, Clowney's always taken in criticism and worked to disprove the harsh words.

"That's what motivates him and that will always carry him to be better," said Carroll, who's remained close to Clowney and will be in New York for the draft. "He'll succeed, just like he always had."

Kiper didn't see a lack of hustle, just a premier player double-teamed and chip-blocked by opponents to keep him from making plays.

"I don't see any (other) defensive end out there the last 20 years that's been blocked by three guys on a regular basis, and that's because he's a great player," Kiper said.

Clowney is ready to silence critics as an NFL star. He's draws strength from family and teammates when the questioning gets to be too much.

"They tell me, 'Don't worry about it,'" he said. "Just go out and keep working because it's going to get better."
 
I'd be shocked if Clowney wasn't the pick if they can't trade back.

I've said it before, I think Houston is the best organization for Clowney to thrive in. Put his locker right next to JJ's. Let it bloom! :hurrah:
 
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