How close are you guys to where the eclipse could be seen yesterday (or was it the day before?)?
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Clowney, then what?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
Shezza
Practice Squad
It's not that bad. Unlike you guys, some ridiculous percentage of the population lives near the coast here. Like really really high.
And the beach is a huge part of our culture. So statistically it may seem high, but I reckon it's not so bad considering.
Shezza
Practice Squad
Been too busy to even realise it there was one. There was one two or three weeks ago which was kinda cool.
After listening to some of GM Smiths pitch yesterday about his clear desire to trade the 1.1 pick, I'm honestly starting to wonder if their top choice IS NOT Clowney ? It's pretty obvious by now that Clowney is the only prospect that any team would consider going all the way up to trade for the #1 pick to choose, so why isn't Smith saying loud and clear that that is who he's taking and if you want him, you better talk to us while he's still on the market/Board ?
We don't know if Smith is or isn't saying just that when talking to other teams. What he says through the media isn't indicative of how he conducts business inside the league.
Agreed
But Smith aint too bright when it comes to this draft stuff. Remember he is the GM of a 2-14 team with salary cap issues that were all created under his watch.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Why on Earth would you announce who you want to take? That makes zero sense. Keep your cards close to your vest.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
If you think there's a team that values an OT higher, you dangle the possibility that you might take that OT to generate as much trade interest as possible.
Texans have been talking trade down for months.
Headline: Falcons pull out of talks for #1 -- http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2332110#post2332110
If you are sitting at 1.1 with an Andrew Luck in the Draft and you need a QB, you probably wouldn't trade the pick to another team even if their GM offered you his first born. But the Texans have no such player like AL on their Board and like any team picking first they need lots of help. Now if you saw Smith's presser yesterday you know that he was blatantly attempting to flush out bids, and I suspect they'd probably even entertain a low-ball offer.
Think of the draft as a real estate market and Smith is trying to sell his house: this year in this Draft it's a buyers' market.
We're entertaining trade offers and we don't want to sound like we're having a garage sale and trying desparately to dump the #1 pick. We want to appear that we're absolutely ready to pull the trigger on "our guy" with the 1-1 pick. Further, we don't want to give away who "our guy" really is. If other teams don't know who we're going to grab at 1-1 then they have to assume "our guy" and "their guy" might be the same guy. Let's us negotiate from a better bargaining position than if they think they can move to #2 or #3 and still get "their guy".
However, that's not an absolute. In obvious cases, like the Andrew Luck. There's no amount of picks in the draft that will make us give him up so don't even ask.
I don't believe that. Atlanta gave up 6 picks to move up for Julio Jones. I think Watkins is better than Jones was. Maybe someone is willing to give up 6 picks for Sammy Watkins, maybe 5 picks, who knows?
Robinson is as freaky an OT as Jadaveon Clowney is if you ask me. His ability in the run game is unquestioned & he's shown the athleticism & agility to be a top pass protector in the league. He grades higher than our current Pro Bowl LT did.
Then JohnnyFrknFootball. He may very well not "deserve" to go with the #1 overall, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did. Whether there was a trade or not.
If I was drafting a RT I'd definitely want Robinson, he's a monster when it comes to blocking for the rushing game. But I might take Taylor Lewan over Robinson (maybe also over Matthews) if I wanted a LT in the NFL to cover my QB's azz in the passing game. When you hear people talk about Robinson as a pass-blocker, you hear them describe Robinson's athleticism, his length, etc and how much "potential" he has to be an outstanding pass-blocker. But they readily admit because of Auburn's run-heavy offense, he's really not done much pass blocking in college. But he's "potentially" a very good pass-blocking tackle.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I don`t think any team would seriously consider trading up to the first spot to take Watkins. I know he is special and I know he has the potential to be the best WR in the game. But WR as a position is not nearly as important as QB, OT or DE. And Watkins may not be small, but he doesn`t have ideal height to be a redzone monster like CJ.
If anybody trades with us it is probably for Clowney, with an outside chance for Manziel or Robinson. I´d be ok with any of the 3. Manziel is the exciting (but also scary) choice, Robinson is the conservative choice (build your O-Line before getting your QB) and Clowney the no-brainer choice (as in he is the consensus best player in the draft at a position of need). Since I am a little scared of Clowney, I´d be "impressed" if we went with Robinson. I think that route would need more patience from us but might help us the most in the long run.
After the 49ers just picked up the "5th year" option on malcontent Aldon Smith, there should be no doubt about how important an elite edge-rusher is to a teams defense, even a defense that's as loaded as the 49ers defense. And there's a good chance that the troubled Smith doesn't even play in 2014 because of suspension by the league or worse because he's in a slammer someplace do to his criminal behavior. On the other hand, Clowney is our opportunity to add a similar kind of football talent to our team without the kind of off field problems of an Aldon Smith: by all accounts Clowney is a good kid who is easy going, affable youngster who doesn't even drink beer.
I was thinking about this the other day. The talking heads were discussing how smith screwed himself by getting in trouble & now the 49ers won't pick up the 5th year option.
Then I got to thinking. All these other guys busted their butts, stayed out of trouble & they're getting punished with this 5th year option, because teams get to lock them up another year below their market value. But they're talking like it's a punishment for Smith.
Whether Smith plays or not in 2014 is irrelevant, he would be a FA in 2015 & some team will pay him (if he's not in jail). So it makes sense for the 49ers to lock him up. If he's able to play, he'll "belong" to the 49ers.
The 5th year is only guaranteed for injury, so if he's in jail, the 49ers don't have to pay.
What if he's in drug rehab all of the 2015 season ?
If Smith is suspended, it's without pay.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Texian
Hall of Fame
I am worried about Playoffs. Come this time next week you could be suffering some serious withdrawals, post draft traumatic syndrome and some post draft depression.
HouSportsWriter
SIAB
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...air-jadeveon-clowney-is-the-best-in-the-draft
owner Bob McNair reiterated the stance general manager Rick Smith took late last week: Houston is open for business with the No. 1 pick.
"Really at this point we don't know and we really won't know until right up at the time we have to make a decision because people are talking to us about the possibility of trading down and it's a question of what people offer, whether their offer is such that it's worthwhile to trade down," McNair told Fox 26 in Houston on Friday.
McNair, however, was more specific than Smith as to who the Texans view as the draft's top player.
"You take a guy like Jadeveon Clowney," McNair said. "He's obviously the best player in the draft, but he's a defensive end. He's not a quarterback. If he's a quarterback and the best player it's easy, but that's not the case. So can that defensive player have a greater impact on the success of your team than one of these quarterbacks? It's not a sure thing that he is."
The Texans' owner made it clear that if a signal caller came close to Clowney in terms of talent, the team would have a tougher call.
"You got three quarterbacks and all of them have some holes in their resume," McNair said. "A quarterback that goes out and performs for you and is a franchise quarterback is more valuable than a player playing another position, but there's a lot more risk there. It's a more difficult position to play and there are lot more failures."
McNair knows what it's like to watch terrible quarterback play. Now he stares down a season with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his starter.
The need at the quarterback position doesn't mean the Texans are going to pass on a talent like Clowney -- unless someone pays them.
"If somebody wants you to drop down and they give you two or three more picks that would let you get two or three more quality players, are you a stronger team dropping down a little bit, getting these additional picks and getting more depth?" McNair said.
As we creep closer to draft day, it's appearing clearer that Clowney will go No. 1. The question is whether he will be a Texan
owner Bob McNair reiterated the stance general manager Rick Smith took late last week: Houston is open for business with the No. 1 pick.
"Really at this point we don't know and we really won't know until right up at the time we have to make a decision because people are talking to us about the possibility of trading down and it's a question of what people offer, whether their offer is such that it's worthwhile to trade down," McNair told Fox 26 in Houston on Friday.
McNair, however, was more specific than Smith as to who the Texans view as the draft's top player.
"You take a guy like Jadeveon Clowney," McNair said. "He's obviously the best player in the draft, but he's a defensive end. He's not a quarterback. If he's a quarterback and the best player it's easy, but that's not the case. So can that defensive player have a greater impact on the success of your team than one of these quarterbacks? It's not a sure thing that he is."
The Texans' owner made it clear that if a signal caller came close to Clowney in terms of talent, the team would have a tougher call.
"You got three quarterbacks and all of them have some holes in their resume," McNair said. "A quarterback that goes out and performs for you and is a franchise quarterback is more valuable than a player playing another position, but there's a lot more risk there. It's a more difficult position to play and there are lot more failures."
McNair knows what it's like to watch terrible quarterback play. Now he stares down a season with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his starter.
The need at the quarterback position doesn't mean the Texans are going to pass on a talent like Clowney -- unless someone pays them.
"If somebody wants you to drop down and they give you two or three more picks that would let you get two or three more quality players, are you a stronger team dropping down a little bit, getting these additional picks and getting more depth?" McNair said.
As we creep closer to draft day, it's appearing clearer that Clowney will go No. 1. The question is whether he will be a Texan
What can we take from these McNair quotes?
A) Clowney is considered the best player on the Texans board. Sorry Mack/Robinson/Watkins fans.
B) The Texans really want a QB. And they probably want one of the top 3, else they wouldn't be so concerned about trading down.
C) When did Bob McNair become so chatty? Is he trying to fill the void of the over-talkitive NFL owner now that Jim Irsay is in rehab?
One, I agree that Clowney is the "best player". I also agree that QBs have more of an impact than any other position. What I don't necessarily agree with is that there are more failures at QB than other positions. Looking back over 10 drafts (2002-2011), I count 24 "busts". Players who couldn't become starters or couldn't finish their rookie contracts.
QB - 7 of 17 - 41% busts
DL - 6 of 22 - 27%
WR - 6 of 14 - 43%
OL - 3 of 15 - 20%
LB - 2 of 8 - 25%
RB - 0 of 7 - 0%
DB - 0 of 15 - 0%
TE - 0 of 2 - 0%
Percentage wise, WRs bust more than QBs. Is anyone suggesting that Sammy Watkins is too big of a risk to take in the top 10? And while QBs have a high bust rate compared to most positions, the criteria is higher. I call Carr and Sanchez busts, but not Okoye or Dorsey. Had Okoye and Dorsey played QB at the level they played DT, they would be considered busts.
And when you hit on a QB in the top 10, (like a Manning, Ryan, Rivers, or Newton) it can turn your franchise around. The Browns certainly hit on Joe Thomas at #3 in the 2007 draft. Their record since? 37-75. Not blaming Joe Thomas, he's doing his job at an All Pro level. Just that an All Pro LT will not make the same impact as a good, and not necessarily All Pro, QB.
Unless the Texans can score points and force teams to throw, it's difficult for even JJ to gets sacks. Which reminds me, can someone again explain to me why the Texans shouldn't draft a QB?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
They shouldn't draft a QB if they think they all suck or even if they think they're just a bunch of backups.
If the best QB in this crop is going to be the next Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder, why waste the pick? If someone else thinks highly of one of these guys, let them trade up to draft them.
And why would someone compare the QBs available in this draft to Gabbert or Ponder? Neither of those QBs came close to the careers that Manziel, Bridgewater, or even Bortles had. Why are these guys the next Gabbert or Ponder?
Should I compare Sammy Watkins to Charles Rogers? Actually, that's not a bad comparison as both had stellar college careers, off the charts athleticism, and drug issues. I can point to any prospect and make a comparison to a failed NFL player.
I agree that QBs have more of an impact than any other position. However, when I look at the draft, I'm looking to get the most rarest of prospects first. If I've got Sammy Watkins graded much higher than all the other WRs and I've got 6 QBs with mid 1st to early 2nd round grades, then I'm going to take that rare WR and one of the 6 QBs, thereby getting the best of both worlds.
A franchise QB is the most rarest bird, & in our situation we would definitely have to grab him if he were there. But a common mistake teams in need of a QB make is gambling that a mid first round guy is a franchise guy & they end up passing on Tyron Smith, Jj Watt, Nick Fairley, Robert Quin, Mike Pouncey, or Nate Solder. Especially when they could have gotten that same QB in ths 2nd, or Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, or Ryan Mallet later. Comparable QB talent. They weren't going to get a JJ Watt, Robert Quin, or Mike Pouncey in the second round.
I'm thinking just the opposite. Clowney will benefit greatly from Watts presence. Watt causes opposing QBs to move around more than any other defensive player. That alone should result in several sacks.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Someone drafted Gabbert and someone drafted Ponder thinking that they could be groomed into Franchise QBs. Anyone who drafts Manziel, Bridgewater, or Bortles in the first couple of rounds, but especially in the top 10, are thinking the same thing.
Gabbert and Ponder have not turned into Franchise QBs, yet. And I'm making the comparison because I believe there's every possibility that NONE of these QBs in this class will develop into Franchise QBs. I don't care about their college careers or their games or any of that. I don't think this crop of QBs is going to end up being anything.
If OB thinks he can turn one of these guys into a Franchise QB, great. I'll be rooting for him to not be the guy that drafted Gabbert or Ponder.
I don't understand your issue with comparing players. I've got no problem with comparing Sammy Watkins to Charles Rogers. Watkins could bust.
But this is what it comes down to. When I look at these players play and try to imagine them in a Texans Uniform, I think about how their game is going to translate and how well I think they're going to translate to the next level, how much I think they're going to contribute to the success of our team.
I have my opinion; you have your opinion; Rick Smith, RAC, and OB have the only opinions that matter.
In my opinion, when I look at this draft, Watkins is the guy I expect to have the most stellar career. In your opinion, it's one of the QBs... I don't care which one, doesn't matter. In my opinion, these QBs are probably going to fail, have some ups and downs, but ultimately fail. In your opinion, you think our biggest need is at QB so we need to grab the best of the litter regardless of how talented or how well that guy is going to end up playing.
My opinion doesn't matter. Neither does yours. There's no need to get worked up over it.
No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that I believe there are 4 NFL starting QBs in this draft, and the Texans should consider 3 of them. I believe they are very talented, each in their own way. And each is worthy of consideration of the 1st pick. Because, QB is the most important position in the NFL...by far. And the lack of a QB is the biggest reason this team is drafting first on Thursday night.
Why do you think I'm "worked up" anyway? I didn't type in all caps or anything.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that I believe there are 4 NFL starting QBs in this draft, and the Texans should consider 3 of them. I believe they are very talented, each in their own way. And each is worthy of consideration of the 1st pick. Because, QB is the most important position in the NFL...by far. And the lack of a QB is the biggest reason this team is drafting first on Thursday night.
Why do you think I'm "worked up" anyway? I didn't type in all caps or anything.
Well, you asked why someone wouldn't draft a QB. And I told you why. And in response, you turned around and brought up the fact that I like a WR in the draft.... which hadn't even been part of this discussion.
If someone like OB looks at these QBs and doesn't think they're worth the 1st overall pick, doesn't think there's any guy who has a better chance of being a franchise QB than a later round pick, why would he draft him? Do you think he's not going to give them consideration?
I mean, *I* gave them consideration and I came to a different conclusion than you did.
All I'm saying is that even if you have a need at QB and you really, really want a franchise QB, you can't just draft someone and hope for the best. You should only draft a QB in the first round if you're absolutely positive he's going to be The Guy sooner than later.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Texans contemplate passing on Jadeveon Clowney with top pick
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...lowney-with-no-1-pick?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cb
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...lowney-with-no-1-pick?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cb
It seems to me that both of you are against drafting the best QB in this particular draft because none of them are head and shoulders above the rest and a sure-fire pick. I agree with this.
I like the buzz Manziel generates and think he could be a great QB, but I also think he could be an injury prone bust. Bortles has a very high ceiling, but a very deep floor. Those are my only 2 QB options at 1.1.
2.1 has the potential to be wide open on the top QB picks (including trading back into the 1st to take a QB. With 11 picks, that's a possibility.) and I could see the Texans going either Clowney or Robinson. I really don't see Watkins or any other player not at OT or DE as an option.
The more I study, the more I like Clowney over Mack, based on pure potential. As I've stated before, I keep thinking back to MW's 1st 5 games with his hand off the ground. He looked deadly in those games.
& Mario is not a quick twitch guy. Clowney is, possibly more suited for the role, especially in a Wade Phillips defense. But a more traditional 3-4, where your OLBs will drop back more than the "Demarcus Ware 6%"
Clowney is definitely intriguing. Not my first choice, but I would have absolutely no problem if the Texans chose him, or Mack, or Robinson, or Matthews, or Watkins, or Manziel, or Bortles.... even Bridgewater. I don't think the Texans can screw this one up to tell you the truth.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
My contention with the clowney thing is he's not the best player in the draft. Cossell said it best, people are banking on his athleticism = a great pass rusher. There is more to being athletic in being a great pass rusher. Manny Lawson is one of the most freakish athletes to ever enter the nfl. Lawson was an all state track guy. 6'4 260 lbs, 40 in vert,4.4 40 time. He had 10 sacks running the corner as a rookie. After that,he couldn't spell 10 sacks. Today, he's one of the better cover lbs in the nfl. As a pass rusher,not so much.
Dion Jordan was suppose to be the next Jason Taylor. That hasn't happened yet and we don't know if he will ever come to 25% of what taylor was. They jumped a lot to get this freakish athlete. As I said then I will say now,its hard to be a good rusher when you can't bend.I'm not talking bending in a drill,I'm talking when you're engaged with a 300lbs nfl tackle. Its easy to look bendable vs air, but what about vs god nfl lt who recover and push you past the qb? That's my problem with jordan and clowney. They can't bend.
Dion Jordan was suppose to be the next Jason Taylor. That hasn't happened yet and we don't know if he will ever come to 25% of what taylor was. They jumped a lot to get this freakish athlete. As I said then I will say now,its hard to be a good rusher when you can't bend.I'm not talking bending in a drill,I'm talking when you're engaged with a 300lbs nfl tackle. Its easy to look bendable vs air, but what about vs god nfl lt who recover and push you past the qb? That's my problem with jordan and clowney. They can't bend.
Really???? I'm totally shocked by this breaking news!!!!!
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Don't be,we will see in a couple of yrs about forecast and projections. I think he's a good football player. Stays on his feet,plays the run well too. Avg pass rusher. You don't take avg pass rushers that high. We've seen miller,smith,watt,and quinn be exceptional by yr 2. We will see. I hope if he's drafted by texans that he lives up to his billing.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
I think the way it breaks down is, we end up with one of the "boom-or-bust" players (Clowney, Manziel), or one of the "safer, traditional" players (Mack, Bortles).
From my limited knowledge, I'd love to go with Mack and end up with Murray or McCarron later. Then you can market it as M&M or, "Mack and Mac" or something stupid but catchy like that.
If it were up to me and everything else was put aside, I'd probably go with Watkins. I want the highest chance possible of "hitting" on my top pick and since he's by all accounts "the safest" out of all of 'em, I'd probably go that way. Figure out a way to plug other holes later and throw Watkins out there to learn from Andre. Then when Andre retires we can have Watkins and Hopkins for the next 10 years.
From my limited knowledge, I'd love to go with Mack and end up with Murray or McCarron later. Then you can market it as M&M or, "Mack and Mac" or something stupid but catchy like that.
If it were up to me and everything else was put aside, I'd probably go with Watkins. I want the highest chance possible of "hitting" on my top pick and since he's by all accounts "the safest" out of all of 'em, I'd probably go that way. Figure out a way to plug other holes later and throw Watkins out there to learn from Andre. Then when Andre retires we can have Watkins and Hopkins for the next 10 years.
I think the biggest reservation a coach has about using an extremely high pick on a QB (and the 1.1 certainly qualifies as "an extremely high pick") is the down side of a poor choice. The coach knows he's expected to start the prospect early and stick with him for multiple seasons no matter how poorly he may be performing. And if the QB is playing poorly it can easily sabotage the whole team and therefor the coaches opportunity to succeed with that team. So it's understandable why a coach might lean towards an iffy non-QB prospect as his top pick instead of a risky QB given a bad choice would be far less damaging with the non-QB to the teams (and coaches) success.
says it all
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Last I heard, reggie bush was faulk and sayers combined. Clowney is the next bruce smith minus the production. 440 pass attempts, 3 sacks. Let that sink in. Before the always doubled/triple team comes in, he was 25% of his pass rush chances. So 310 attempts at the qb, 3 sacks. 1 every 110 chances. Yep,that 1 in a decade
You disagreeing with Cowher?
He knows a thing or 2 about how to build a dominate defense.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
coaches see traits,nothing wrong with that. At what point do traits turn into production? During his tenure with pitt, how many clowney types did he coach? All of those teams had olbs with certain traits,right? All 6'2 ex de's,right. Not only that, all those guys had the track record of playing hard and chasing plays down. You can start with chad brown,kirkland,hardy nickerson,lloyd,porter,greene,harrison,haggans, you name it. As I said, I think clowney is a better football player than pass rusher. The team who drafts clowney is hoping they can teach him to be a good pass rusher.
How about every year he has ever played football until the last one. I mean he has literally been dominate in every game he's ever played in before this year. And really the last one isn't half as bad as you make it out to be. His presence forced game planning. When teams actually game plan against you, you must be pretty dam good.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Oh really? Why is that? Sacks,tfl,and ff are traits of being dominate,right? Even when teams double or chip u 25% of pass rus chances,you can't produce more than 3 sacks and 0 forced fumbles? If andrew luck came into his last yr and threw for 2000 yds, 54%, 15 tds and 18 ints,would people be clamoring to take him number 1 or even top 10? We're talking a once in a decade talent. By the way,they said the same for calvin johnson and suh and guess what? Those guys dominated in the game and on the stat sheet in college. Are those guys not enough? Try von miller. 17 sacks 48 tckls 21 tfls as a jr, the next yr with a freshman on the same line, 11 sacks,68 tackles,and 17 tfl? How is it a guy von miller performed despite the gameplans and the protection turns,but the once in a decade talent can't?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Yes, Cowher built a great defense by hiring a great DC and allowing his GM to make good decisions in the draft... Not many of those great players in Pittsburgh were guys with great measurables who failed to make plays in football games.