Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Clowney, then what?

Corrosion said:
Did you take your brain out to play with it .... and lose it ?!
Click to expand...

No, but I didn't say what I meant very well. If the Texans draft Clowney in the first round, he will probably not be thought of as an OLB. He will be a DE. If he is drafted as a OLB he will spend his first year as a sub.

He will be probably thought of a replacement for B Reed, when the team may cut Reed loose as a FE, as they did when they drafted Mercilous as a replacement for Connor.
 
Last edited:
Sack Study said:
*Right off the bat, Clowney’s 2012 sack campaign looks like it received the most total help from his teammates. A whopping 69% of his sacks came with pressure from a teammate, notably current NFL player*Devin Taylor
Click to expand...

That's from the guy who does the metrics on players
 
Lambert said:
No, but I didn't say what I meant very well. If the Texans draft Clowney in the first round, he will probably not be thought of as an OLB. He will be a DE. If he is drafted as a OLB he will spend his first year as a sub.

He will be probably thought of a replacement for B Reed, when the team may cut Reed loose as a FE, as they did when they drafted Mercilous as a replacement for Connor.
Click to expand...

They aren't going to take clowney #1 overall and have him be brooks reed's sub. Not happening.

And the regime that drafted Mercilus to sit and learn isn't here anymore. The "they" that did that is no longer relevant.
 
"As good or better an athlete than Mario Williams," Mayock said on "Path to the Draft." "Reminds me of Bruce Smith back in his heyday. As good a natural athlete that has ever played this position.
"From a god-given, natural physical ability (standpoint), he's got more than anybody that's ever played defensive end."
***
"He worked with two other defensive linemen who were both heavily winded by the end of it," Mayock said. "Clowney was fine. Great shape. Great athlete. Dominant performance."
***
Said Mayock: "After seeing all the tape and seeing him in person by watching his pro day and seeing him in person at the combine -- at the end of the day he's the most talented player in the entire draft."
Click to expand...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ck-jadeveon-clowney-reminds-me-of-bruce-smith
*****
And at the end of the day, did Mayoc recommend the Texans take Clowney with their 1.1 ? No he did not, but I think he did endorse Clowney as an elite player, an elite pass-rusher.
But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think or what you think, it only matters what OB & Smith & the ownership think.
 
steelbtexan said:
Getting extra attention 60% of the time and while watching how many time when they weren't giving extra attention to Clowney did they trap/run/screen away from him?

Using your numbers Clowney /Watt seems like a pretty formidable duo.
Click to expand...

I get the feeling he will be a Mario type player. Consistently good, but not consistently great. But I'm ok with that level as a downside.

Pairing him with Watt, though, could make him a monster.
 
“He asks me (about the Texans) every day,” [DJ] Swearinger said at an NFL Play60 event at Harvard Elementary School in Houston on Thursday. “He asks me every day. Like ‘Bro, what’s the word?’
Click to expand...
http://bit.ly/1eXZmv6

- Jadeveon Clowney stole the show this week with an exceptional pro day, but let's put that into perspective. It was a pro day. Yes, his athleticism is jaw-dropping, but so was his game film. Clowney was a lock to go top three last week, and he still is this week after the pro day.
Click to expand...

- What type of defense does Clowney fit in? I asked four defensive coaches that question this week.

Each replied with colorful language indicating you find a way to fit him in your defense. One went as far as to call Clowney the "best defensive end I've seen."
Click to expand...
http://bit.ly/1hV7M81
 
Chiefs DE Glenn Dorsey Viewed As NFL Draft Cautionary*Tale
By*Joel Thorman
**@JoelThorman
*on Apr 13 2010, 4:45p*51

When the*Kansas City Chiefs
*used the fifth overall pick in the 2008 NFL draft on LSU DE*Glenn Dorsey
, a lot of folks were excited around town. Dorsey was called by quite a few NFL analysts as the best and safest player in the draft. For the Chiefs, they finally got their defensive lineman after years (and years...and years) of trying.
Fast forward two years later and Dorsey isn't heard from very often.
Does that mean he's doing a bad job? No, not at all. In fact, I'd argue that he was one of the positives to come out of the 2009 season. A 3-4 defensive end shouldn't necessarily be heard from that often. Their job is to take up blockers to provide rushing lanes for the linebackers. It's not necessarily to create sacks (although that would be a pleasant byproduct).
However, the national media is viewing it differently.
To them
, Dorsey is a cautionary tale on drafting defensive lineman high in the draft. Here's an article from the*"Detroit Free Press*"quoting Jon Gruden:
Jon Gruden brought up a few names. One was Dewayne Robertson, whom the*Jets
*drafted fourth overall in 2003. Another was Glenn Dorsey, whom the Chiefs drafted fifth overall in '08.
"I don't think people have seen or heard from GlennDorsey," Gruden said today in a media conference call.
Gruden's broader point was that teams should be careful of labeling defensive linemen as "can't miss" but I thought this was an interesting look at what the position change has done for Dorsey's perception.
Even though I think most of us would agree he's a solid player, the 'un-sexy' position of a 3-4 defensive end has caused folks to virtually forget he was in the league.
 
leebigeztx said:
Chiefs DE Glenn Dorsey Viewed As NFL Draft Cautionary*Tale
By*Joel Thorman
**@JoelThorman
*on Apr 13 2010, 4:45p*51

When the*Kansas City Chiefs
*used the fifth overall pick in the 2008 NFL draft on LSU DE*Glenn Dorsey
, a lot of folks were excited around town. Dorsey was called by quite a few NFL analysts as the best and safest player in the draft. For the Chiefs, they finally got their defensive lineman after years (and years...and years) of trying.
Fast forward two years later and Dorsey isn't heard from very often.
Does that mean he's doing a bad job? No, not at all. In fact, I'd argue that he was one of the positives to come out of the 2009 season. A 3-4 defensive end shouldn't necessarily be heard from that often. Their job is to take up blockers to provide rushing lanes for the linebackers. It's not necessarily to create sacks (although that would be a pleasant byproduct).
However, the national media is viewing it differently.
To them
, Dorsey is a cautionary tale on drafting defensive lineman high in the draft. Here's an article from the*"Detroit Free Press*"quoting Jon Gruden:
Jon Gruden brought up a few names. One was Dewayne Robertson, whom the*Jets
*drafted fourth overall in 2003. Another was Glenn Dorsey, whom the Chiefs drafted fifth overall in '08.
"I don't think people have seen or heard from GlennDorsey," Gruden said today in a media conference call.
Gruden's broader point was that teams should be careful of labeling defensive linemen as "can't miss" but I thought this was an interesting look at what the position change has done for Dorsey's perception.
Even though I think most of us would agree he's a solid player, the 'un-sexy' position of a 3-4 defensive end has caused folks to virtually forget he was in the league.
Click to expand...
Dorsey was clearly wasted in a 3-4 type lineman role as a 2-gapper when as a top pick out of LSU he was the 3-tech Warren Sapp type DLineman who would have have provided as a 1-gap guy a strong inside pass-rush playing DT in a 4-3. And I think Crennel was with the Chiefs then, so this is most def a cautionary tale about mis deploying a gifted defensive lineman.
 
IDEXAN said:
Dorsey was clearly wasted in a 3-4 type lineman role as a 2-gapper when as a top pick out of LSU he was the 3-tech Warren Sapp type DLineman who would have have provided as a 1-gap guy a strong inside pass-rush playing DT in a 4-3. And I think Crennel was with the Chiefs then, so this is most def a cautionary tale about mis deploying a gifted defensive lineman.
Click to expand...

Which is why a lot of people fear going to Crennel's 3-4 is not such a good thing for Jj Watt.

I don't know why this is in the Clowney thread though, no one can honestly think Jd will be playing DE in a 3-4. He's most definitely going to be Romeo's Elephant, which is why you hear the name & comparison to Willie McGinnist so much.

Dorsey went from a glamour position to a non-sexy position. Clowney is going to a more prestigious position.
 
IDEXAN said:
Dorsey was clearly wasted in a 3-4 type lineman role as a 2-gapper when as a top pick out of LSU he was the 3-tech Warren Sapp type DLineman who would have have provided as a 1-gap guy a strong inside pass-rush playing DT in a 4-3. And I think Crennel was with the Chiefs then, so this is most def a cautionary tale about mis deploying a gifted defensive lineman.
Click to expand...

Eh, great players make plays regardless of the scheme. i just think in the end, Dorsey has never been able to live up to the potential everyone thought he had coming out.
 
I think I've finally stopped flip flopping. Well for today at least. I think we should take the best QB available but don't think Johnny Bortleswater will be there when we pick at 1-1. So we should take Clowney. Then I'd try to trade him on the condition that one of the second tier QBs (Manziel, Bortles & Bridgewater) are there when the pick we would get comes up.
 
They will be playing a lot of hybrid 4-3/3-4 defenses on 2nd &3rd and longs. I'm also sure Clowney/Watt will be put in premium positions to rush the passer on these downs.

I trust that a vet DC like RC knows what he's doing. I don't get why people dpnt trust him. If Watt's sacks go down but the Texans win more that's all that really matters.
 
Mr teX said:
Eh, great players make plays regardless of the scheme. i just think in the end, Dorsey has never been able to live up to the potential everyone thought he had coming out.
Click to expand...
Would you for example draft a stud WR out of the U like Andre Johnson, have him gain 20 pounds, and play him in the NFL as primarily an in-line TE ?
 
"I have heard the criticism about his lack of productivity... He has tremendous agility and quickness. He was extremely productive in the ACC and rose to the occasion against quality competition. His production did tail off last season, so that is a concern. He didn't pick up the pace and dominate down the stretch. But his prior dominance was already there. He stayed No. 1 on my draft board all year because he had dominated already... John Fox had Michael Strahan in New York and knows the value of a dominant defensive end. He could be an outstanding and complete performer who could develop into a Bruce Smith-like force in a few years, hitting quarterbacks on a regular basis."


pict_story.gif


The "he" Kiper describes above is Julius Peppers.
 
IDEXAN said:
Would you for example draft a stud WR out of the U like Andre Johnson, have him gain 20 pounds, and play him in the NFL as primarily an in-line TE ?
Click to expand...

Of course not...but that's not what KC did though. They didn't switch his position entirely as in your example. They just had him do something else in the same position...something that he wasn't a good fit for..but the same position group no less.

A more apt comparison would be making AJ perhaps a slot WR or a stretch TE. In both cases, I think AJ would still be a problem for opposing defenses b/c at the end of the day he's a playmaker & he would make enough plays at least to warrant us re-upping his rookie contract.

Not the case with Dorsey, who has yet to do anything close to what he projected to do & KC basically just moved on from him after his rookie contract ran out & drafted another guy to do what he wasn't doing.
 
Mr teX said:
A more apt comparison would be making AJ perhaps a slot WR or a stretch TE. In both cases, I think AJ would still be a problem for opposing defenses b/c at the end of the day he's a playmaker & he would make enough plays at least to warrant us re-upping his rookie contract.
Click to expand...

This Hall of Fame TE thinks AJ would have done just fine.

[IMGwidthsize=400]http://www.profootballhof.com/assets/photo_galleries/630x536/Sharpe_Shannon_HS.jpg[/IMG]
 
Dorsey wasn't playing well when he was in the 4-3 as a 3 tech under Herm Edwards. I posted that article because there is no safe prospect no matter how people try to spin it. There is nothing safe about a 21 yr old kid. The Chiefs,like a lot of organization could've opted for flacco or someone else. Just as the dolphins recognized there wasn't much difference between ryan and henne. That sounds good until u see 1 guy as pro bowl caliber and the other is a journeyman.
 
I've warmed up to Clowney as the process has gone on. He has Shawne Merriman during his steroid days level of potential.

I still don't think there is a single elite prospect in this class, but he's a guy who would at least get consideration for top 5 in a strong draft (e.g. 2006). Everyone else being talked about as a potential #1 is what you would expect to pick in the 8-16 range in a good draft.
 
leebigeztx said:
Dorsey wasn't playing well when he was in the 4-3 as a 3 tech under Herm Edwards. I posted that article because there is no safe prospect no matter how people try to spin it. There is nothing safe about a 21 yr old kid. The Chiefs,like a lot of organization could've opted for flacco or someone else. Just as the dolphins recognized there wasn't much difference between ryan and henne. That sounds good until u see 1 guy as pro bowl caliber and the other is a journeyman.
Click to expand...
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
 
IDEXAN said:
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
Click to expand...

Crennel was in cleveland when dorsey was drafted. Dorsey was drafted by Herm Edwards and crew,not the pitt oc. Check ur timeline please
 
IDEXAN said:
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
Click to expand...

2008 Kansas City Chiefs
*Franchise Index
:*Previous Season
*/*Next Season

2-14-0, Finished 4th in*AFC West Division*
*·*2008 NFL Season Summary

*SRS: Total -9.2, Offense: -3.9, Defense: -5.3, SoS: 0.1, avg is 0.0.
Scored*291 points (18.2/g), 26th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 440 points (27.5/g), 29th.*
*Differential of -149 points (-9.3/g), 29th. *Expected W-L
: 4.4-11.6.
Coach:*Herman Edwards
*(2-14-0)*
*Offensive Coordinator:*Chan Gailey

*Defensive Coordinator:*Gunther Cunningham


Stadium: Arrowhead Stadium
*Training Camp
: UW River Falls (River Falls, Wisconsin)
 
IDEXAN said:
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
Click to expand...

Crennel wasn't in KC until 2010.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
...NFLVerified account ‏@nfl

"I don't think it would be wise for ANY team to make that decision to take Johnny Manziel over Clowney." NFL.com VIDEO
Click to expand...

Dude, you do realize they play a Johnny Manziel McDonald's commercial before that video plays, don't you?

JFF already has a McDonald's commercial!

Peyton Manning had to settle for pizza, and Tom Brady could only get an UGGs commercial. You must draft JFF!!! Why can't people get this, sheesh.
facepalm.gif
 
Playoffs said:
Dude, you do realize they play a Johnny Manziel McDonald's commercial before that video plays, don't you?

JFF already has a McDonald's commercial!

Peyton Manning had to settle for pizza, and Tom Brady could only get an UGGs commercial. You must draft JFF!!! Why can't people get this, sheesh.
facepalm.gif
Click to expand...

Yeah, but he lost to some greasy, cold, nasty looking bacon in that commercial.
 
IDEXAN said:
Crennel was either the DC or HC in KC while there from 2005 thru 2012, which meant that Dorsey was not playing in a 4-3 when drafted by the Chiefs in 2008.
And of course there's no Draft pick that's a 100% guarantee. We all know that.
Click to expand...

IDEXAN said:
2005-2008
Kansas City Chiefs
(Defensive Coordinator)
2010-2012
Kansas City Chiefs
(Head Coach)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_Crennel
*****
So I'm only going on Wiki. I dunno, maybe it's in error, wouldn't be the first time.
Click to expand...

Regardless, look at the starting lineups for KC on pro-football-reference and you will see when he was drafted KC was running a 4-3 and he played a 4-3 DT.
 
infantrycak said:
Regardless, look at the starting lineups for KC on pro-football-reference and you will see when he was drafted KC was running a 4-3 and he played a 4-3 DT.
Click to expand...

So we have some inconsistencies here, right ? And to further complicate it, even if Dorsey played DT in a 4-3 at KC, it's not for sure that he was a 3-tech ?
Just like with Wade Phillips defenses, we learned that down lineman in a 3-4 might be one-gappers. So who's to say, maybe Dorsey did play DT in a 4-3 at KC but as the 2-gap NT ? That's the kinda thing that Carroll ran at USC and now in Seattle, and I'd be surprised if he is the only one who did.
 
IDEXAN said:
So we have some inconsistencies here, right ?
Click to expand...

No we have one outlying source and it is internally inconsistent. Here is the wiki page for the Cleveland Browns head coaches - Link RC was the Browns head coach from 2005-8. Give it up. There is no if on RC being at KC when Dorsey was drafted or whether they ran a 4-3. As you say, I at least, do not know what Dorsey's assignment was as a 4-3 DT.
 
IDEXAN said:
2005-2008
Kansas City Chiefs
(Defensive Coordinator)
2010-2012
Kansas City Chiefs
(Head Coach)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_Crennel
*****
So I'm only going on Wiki. I dunno, maybe it's in error, wouldn't be the first time.
Click to expand...

From 2005-2008, he was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. In 2010, he joined the Chiefs as the Defensive Coordinator.

Check profootballreference.com.

I just checked wikipedia. It's all kinds of messed up.
 
Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris
So... lets stop talking about Clowney dropping y'all. RT @PFF_Pete: Hali dropped into coverage on 8.6% of his snaps under Crennel in 2012.
Click to expand...

Pete Damilatis ‏@PFF_Pete
A 3-4 team cares more about the 50 snaps per game when Clowney's attacking than the 5 snaps when he's dropping.

Tamba Hali dropped into coverage on 8.6% of his snaps under Crennel in 2012. Clowney would be fine in a 3-4.
Click to expand...
 
Came across this article, not much but still Texans related:
Clowney? Mack? QB? Texans assistant tackles the obvious question on NFL Draft; LINK

"He's definitely a heck of a talent," Kollar said of Clowney. "Obviously, he didn't have the year that he would have liked to statistic-wise this year like he did the year before. You still see it. He got double-teamed a lot and everything else, but without a doubt, he's still a heck of a football player.

"And the same with that Khalil Mack. I mean he is something when you end up watching him. I don't know if you'd say he's a dark horse, but you really hadn't heard that much about him earlier in the year. As the year progressed, he just kept playing better and better and has really put himself in a good position right now."
Click to expand...
 
Watt and Kollar create best fit for Clowney; LINK

“Oh man, it would make our jobs a lot easier,” Joseph told CSN Houston after Clowney's pro day earlier in April. “It would make opposing quarterbacks think about the rush with those two guys out there on defense. And with that being said, quarterbacks can’t hold the ball forever and there’s a clock ticking in their head at the same time.

“Anytime you have a chance to throw those two guys together on a defense and throw in guys like (Brian) Cushing and other playmakers at other positions could be big for a team and for a defense.”

Clowney said after his pro day last week he thinks he can learn a lot from Watt. Joseph reiterated that it would be a perfect fit for Clowney to come to Houston and spend every day with the former Defensive Player of the Year.

“You go and ask five NFL players who the best defensive player in football is and I’m sure J.J. Watt will be three of the five,” Joseph said. “Anytime you have that beside you’re name and the work ethic that J.J. has, it brings instant credibility to the locker room and it rubs off on other guys. And comparing him with Clowney I think it would rub off on him and they would push each other competing.”

Watt wouldn’t be the only one looking over Clowney. Defensive line coach Bill Kollar was the only member of Gary Kubiak’s staff that was retained by Bill O’Brien. Having a position coach with Kollar's experience and personality could be a perfect fit for some one like Clowney.

“Having a guy like (Bill) Kollar, a guy that doesn’t care about the name on the back of the jersey and only sees one way to play the game and that’s hard,” Joseph said. “He’s another first-round pick in himself and been around the league for 30 years. I don’t think he could walk into a better situation all in all. Kollar is a great guy on and off the field, but he has a high demand and he wants to push you."
Click to expand...
 
PapaL said:
Came across this article, not much but still Texans related:
Clowney? Mack? QB? Texans assistant tackles the obvious question on NFL Draft; LINK
Click to expand...
"Not much"? Well, for one, these comments are from an assistant coach with the Texans. The second thing, this is the first time I've actually heard, at this level, Mack and Clowney both mentioned when asked who might be the first pick. To my knowledge, Mack has pretty much been off the radar with the organization. Is this silent treatment note worthy?
 
I'm not opposed to clowney per se,there are a lot of things to like about him. Just as people in this thread talk value and maximizing it. Is it better to get the the rusher,then the qb or vice versa? We've seen it work mostly doing the high qb 1st,then the pass rusher 2nd. In the case everyone likes to bring up seattle,they didn't do it any way. Wilson was a 3rd rd pick,but they don't have a high pick on the dl. They do more of a wave rush. If we were to look at the top 5 sack teams,if that's what we're talking about, how many have 2 top 10 drafted rushers? Bills,saints,panthers,seahawks,and I'm missing someone,i think kc,look at who got to the rusher and where they were drafted. The bills had 57 sacks led by mario williams and their defense sucked.

This is me,is clowney a better pass rusher than dee ford,marcus smith,or attouchau? I didn't say athlete,I said ability. If the texans think he's a guy who can constantly beat single blocks and play to his athletic talents,then they should draft him. If they think he has too many inconsistencies in his game then they should take mack or the highest rated qb on their board and come back and get one of those other 3 in the 2nd.
 
Could someone explain to me what it is about Clowney that makes him less of a risk than any of the other top players? Yes, he is a guy with loads of athletic ability, but even the Clowney homers have got to be willing to admit that he didn't work his way to the top of the draft board by his polished pass rushing skills. He is not a complete player by any means, so what convinces you that he is the next Bruce Smith?
 
Say Watt said:
Could someone explain to me what it is about Clowney that makes him less of a risk than any of the other top players? Yes, he is a guy with loads of athletic ability, but even the Clowney homers have got to be willing to admit that he didn't work his way to the top of the draft board by his polished pass rushing skills. He is not a complete player by any means, so what convinces you that he is the next Bruce Smith?
Click to expand...

Exactly, everybody said that Aundray Bruce was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And Bruce had better supporting numbers than Clowney.
 
Say Watt said:
Could someone explain to me what it is about Clowney that makes him less of a risk than any of the other top players? Yes, he is a guy with loads of athletic ability, but even the Clowney homers have got to be willing to admit that he didn't work his way to the top of the draft board by his polished pass rushing skills. He is not a complete player by any means, so what convinces you that he is the next Bruce Smith?
Click to expand...

I'm not one of the Clowney guys but I feel like he's MORE of a risk than most guys. OTOH, he's got a very, very high ceiling and in the right situation with the right motivation, he could be a beast.

If the question is if you draft THE pass rusher or THE quarterback, then I think you always draft THE quarterback. But if the question is whether you draft THE pass rusher or a quarterback, then you take THE pass rusher.

My problem with this draft is that I'm not excited about any of the QBs available. Not at 1-1. If I'm choosing between Clowney and the entire QB field of this draft class, I'm choosing Clowney.
 
Texian said:
Exactly, everybody said that Aundray Bruce was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor. And Bruce had better supporting numbers than Clowney.
Click to expand...
FWIW JJ Watt had a 4 and a 7 sack season in 2009 & 2010 respectively @ Wisconsin before coming to the NFL, but then later lead the league in 2012 with 20.
I dunno much about Bruce, just what I learned about him from googling him and then reading about him but I've watched tape of Clowney and he's such an incredible natural athlete with the kind of explosiveness, the "quick twitch" that I never saw in Mario. And he's a well-rounded defender, the guy can set the edge, he can stuff the rushing plays. What can I tell you man, he's just a rare talent.
 
IDEXAN said:
FWIW JJ Watt had a 4 and a 7 sack season in 2009 & 2010 respectively @ Wisconsin before coming to the NFL, but then later lead the league in 2012 with 20.
Click to expand...

As was brought up last time you made this argument, JJ switched from TE to DE so had 4.5 sacks in his first year at DE along with 15.5 TFL and then improved to 7 sacks and 21 TFL. So he was learning a new position and improving at it. Neither of those things can be said about Clowney. Clowney had more TFL as a freshman than as a junior.

This looks like a 1.1

Freshman - 3 sacks, 10.5 TFL
Sophomore - 8 sacks, 12 TFL
Junior - 13 sacks, 23.5 TFL

This looks like a problem

Freshman - 8 sacks, 12 TFL
Sophomore - 13 sacks, 23.5 TFL
Junior - 3 sacks, 10.5 TFL
 
Clowney is probably hurt somewhat because of what Mario Williams did or didn't do, its hard for fans to forget. Same with Carr, Texans forced QB #1 overall that blew up then went journeyman route & that didn't work so good either. It's hard to seperate past expereinces with these marqee players/positions when you see the commonality between the prospects. However, Clowney is a pure pass rusher, just let him chase whoever with Watt coming other side or up the middle that is a different story a pathway for success whether some of us care to admit it or not :vincepalm:
 
infantrycak said:
As was brought up last time you made this argument, JJ switched from TE to DE so had 4.5 sacks in his first year at DE along with 15.5 TFL and then improved to 7 sacks and 21 TFL. So he was learning a new position and improving at it. Neither of those things can be said about Clowney. Clowney had more TFL as a freshman than as a junior.
Click to expand...
Connor Barwin went double digit sacks the first year he switched from TE to defense in college, so what ? But trust me, I'm not here to denigrate JJ. He's a talented football player with a big-time motor and we are fortunate to have him.
Now young Mr Clowney is a great football talent with a dubious motor. There, I said it. But he's clean by all reports, doesn't even drink, and he's a good natured kid who is sociable and likes to pal around with his teammates, in other words fits in just fine. But he's not the "first guy in, last guy out" kind of workaholic like JJ and some others. I admit that, but that's what coachs and teammates are for. And the maturing process: he just turned 21 in February.
 
IDEXAN said:
Connor Barwin went double digit sacks the first year he switched from TE to defense in college, so what ? But trust me, I'm not here to denigrate JJ. He's a talented football player with a big-time motor and we are fortunate to have him.
Now young Mr Clowney is a great football talent with a dubious motor. There, I said it. But he's clean by all reports, doesn't even drink, and he's a good natured kid who is sociable and likes to pal around with his teammates, in other words fits in just fine. But he's not the "first guy in, last guy out" kind of workaholic like JJ and some others. I admit that, but that's what coachs and teammates are for. And the maturing process: he just turned 21 in February.
Click to expand...

WE would be a GREAT match for Clowney. With Watt as a mentor and a demanding coach like Koller I believe we would get the best out of him.
 
mussop said:
WE would be a GREAT match for Clowney. With Watt as a mentor and a demanding coach like Koller I believe we would get the best out of him.
Click to expand...

Did Kollar get the best out of Williams in their 3 seasons together?

I think the speculation about the good Watt would do for Clowney is no more than that - optimistic speculation. A lot of times those 200% guys thrive off of competing with another 200% guy like Cushing, not dragging some 80% guy around by the earlobe trying to get them up to 100.
 
infantrycak said:
Did Kollar get the best out of Williams in their 3 seasons together?

I think the speculation about the good Watt would do for Clowney is no more than that - optimistic speculation. A lot of times those 200% guys thrive off of competing with another 200% guy like Cushing, not dragging some 80% guy around by the earlobe trying to get them up to 100.
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree. When a guy gets 5m in his pocket, he has to be a self motivator. Even with the dog peppers and mario had,those guys were oversized athletes. Clowney is jevon kearse aldon smith size. Every tackle will tell you when mario bull rushed you,he shocked you his brute strength. Peppers and Mario were both 290lbs coming out ,not 266,that matters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top