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Clowney, then what?

beerlover said:
Clowney is probably hurt somewhat because of what Mario Williams did or didn't do, its hard for fans to forget. Same with Carr, Texans forced QB #1 overall that blew up then went journeyman route & that didn't work so good either. It's hard to seperate past expereinces with these marqee players/positions when you see the commonality between the prospects. However, Clowney is a pure pass rusher, just let him chase whoever with Watt coming other side or up the middle that is a different story a pathway for success whether some of us care to admit it or not :vincepalm:
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Best post I've seen in this thread.
 
infantrycak said:
Did Kollar get the best out of Williams in their 3 seasons together?

I think the speculation about the good Watt would do for Clowney is no more than that - optimistic speculation. A lot of times those 200% guys thrive off of competing with another 200% guy like Cushing, not dragging some 80% guy around by the earlobe trying to get them up to 100.
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Comparing Clowney to MW?

Whenever MW wasn't hitting thclubs, there was always a party at MW's house.

Does Clowney even drink?

BTW, I still want Robinson at 1-1, although I'm wavering.
 
infantrycak said:
Did Kollar get the best out of Williams in their 3 seasons together?

I think the speculation about the good Watt would do for Clowney is no more than that - optimistic speculation. A lot of times those 200% guys thrive off of competing with another 200% guy like Cushing, not dragging some 80% guy around by the earlobe trying to get them up to 100.
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So tell us counselor, who would you select at 1-1?
 
beerlover said:
Watt is power Clowney is speed. simple concept, grasp it people c'mon :swatter:
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MSR

Do you think Clowney may have the opportunity to weigh 290 in the future, after all he's only 21 yrs old?

I think he lost weight to try to show that he can play in either a 4-3 or a 3-4. He could easily weigh 280 Lbs and run a 4.6 next yr. IMHO He's a special athlete, the only other special athlete in this draft is Robinson. So the pick should be between thse 2. IMHO

There's no special QB in this draft. No matter how much fans want there to be one. IMHO
 
More internet rumors: LINK

@Bischoff_Scott
Talking to someone I trust today concerning No. 1 overall pick. GM wants Bridgewater, HC wants Clowney, Owner wants Manziel. I'm not helping
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Tells me what I need to know about the QB class when the QB Guru wants THE pass rusher.
 
@Bischoff_Scott
Talking to someone I trust today concerning No. 1 overall pick. GM wants Bridgewater, HC wants Clowney, Owner wants Manziel. I'm not helping

this guy is shooting in the dark. has as much as an idea as anyone else
 
@Bischoff_Scott
Talking to someone I trust today concerning No. 1 overall pick. GM wants Bridgewater, HC wants Clowney, Owner wants Manziel. I'm not helping

this guy is shooting in the dark. has as much as an idea as anyone else
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'm not one of the Clowney guys but I feel like he's MORE of a risk than most guys. OTOH, he's got a very, very high ceiling and in the right situation with the right motivation, he could be a beast.

If the question is if you draft THE pass rusher or THE quarterback, then I think you always draft THE quarterback. But if the question is whether you draft THE pass rusher or a quarterback, then you take THE pass rusher.

My problem with this draft is that I'm not excited about any of the QBs available. Not at 1-1. If I'm choosing between Clowney and the entire QB field of this draft class, I'm choosing Clowney.
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That's a fair assessment. Thanks for the response. MSR.

At least you are being honest. Basically it comes down to picking the lesser of two evils. There simply isn't that guarantee in the draft this year at 1-1, and you aren't enamored with any of the QBs. So essentially by default, your choice is Clowney.

I'm good with that logic, even though I feel differently about one of the QBs in this draft.

PapaL said:
Tells me what I need to know about the QB class when the QB Guru wants THE pass rusher.
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Why is O'Brien considered a QB guru? The guy coached Tom Brady, one of the top 5 QBs of all-time. I'm not exactly sure what that shows about his ability to coach QBs.
 
More internet rumors: LINK

@Bischoff_Scott
Talking to someone I trust today concerning No. 1 overall pick. GM wants Bridgewater, HC wants Clowney, Owner wants Manziel. I'm not helping
Click to expand...

Tells me what I need to know about the QB class when the QB Guru wants THE pass rusher.
 
IDEXAN said:
Yes, very good question ! We need to get our fearless leader off the fence and
he needs to categorically tell us who he favors the Texans choosing with their 1.1 ?
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I don't want to speak for cak as he will SURELY go out of his way to correct anyone he thinks is wrong , but I dont believe he's attacking the player...only the concept presented which suggests since Watt is a high effort player he can instill that in Clowney. EVERY team has high effort players and athletically gifted players who are lazy. If those effort players dont stop people from being lazy on other teams, why should it work here? Why would Watt who plays a different position then Clowney's here (de vs olb) be anymore effective then putting Clowney second string to an undrafted free agent who plays 100 miles an hour? I like Clowney and prefer us to draft him over one of the qb's , but I dont subscribe to the ideal of Watt's presence effecting Clowney's effort. Could it happen? Sure. But I wouldn't argue for one guy based on another players effort.
 
PapaL said:
More internet rumors: LINK



Tells me what I need to know about the QB class when the QB Guru wants THE pass rusher.
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If that rumor is true that is very interesting.
Although it bothers me just a bit that the GM's choice isn't to trade back a bit and get more picks.
 
powda said:
I don't want to speak for cak as he will SURELY go out of his way to correct anyone he thinks is wrong , but I dont believe he's attacking the player...only the concept presented which suggests since Watt is a high effort player he can instill that in Clowney. ... Could it happen? Sure. But I wouldn't argue for one guy based on another players effort.
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Spot on. Thanks for the representation.

IDEXAN said:
Yes, very good question ! We need to get our fearless leader off the fence and
he needs to categorically tell us who he favors the Texans choosing with their 1.1 ?
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Lost amongst your unabashed cheerleading you have missed that I don't think there is any clear #1 choice and there are about 6 options I see as being viable at #1. Unlike you, I can see that each of them has warts which is why there is no clear cut #1.
 
infantrycak said:
Spot on. Thanks for the representation.



Lost amongst your unabashed cheerleading you have missed that I don't think there is any clear #1 choice and there are about 6 options I see as being viable at #1. Unlike you, I can see that each of them has warts which is why there is no clear cut #1.
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I think they all have warts too.

I wasn't meaning to call you out. I was just asking for if you were GM who would you pick at 1-1. The process is far enough along that you must have a favorite?

If my post offended you I apologize.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think they all have warts too.

I wasn't meaning to call you out. I was just asking for if you were GM who would you pick at 1-1. The process is far enough along that you must have a favorite?

If my post offended you I apologize.
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See,that's it,the warts. Of all the prospects,I think Clowney has the biggest most glaring imo. We can say TB is slight,but productive. Bortles is prototype,but green. Manziel is the rockstar before he deserves to be. Robinson has the physical gift to be dominant,but he's a lineman. Mack ,small school,hard to read. Clowney ,of all,is the so called super athlete who don't play hard and don't play to his athleticism. To me,his warts are huge and almost makes him undraftable to me. Money on brings out the worse in players. Look at haynesworth as an example. His jr yr,by any excuse is inexcusable to me. I hope the texans don't ever go thru a season like last season,but it showed the true chracter of men. They played hard,didn't lay down despite the terrible season. Clowney,who people say was saving himself don't cut it with me. It tells me if the texans were having a bad season,he would lay down. That's called being a front runner and that's not good on any team.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think they all have warts too.

I wasn't meaning to call you out. I was just asking for if you were GM who would you pick at 1-1. The process is far enough along that you must have a favorite?

If my post offended you I apologize.
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Not offended at all and no need for apologies.

If I was GM I'd have someone a lot more expert than me in evaluating QBs. I'd rank the big 3 - 1a TB, 1b Manziel (with wafer thin separation)* and then 3 Bortles. So, I'm tempted to flip a coin between TB and Watkins but if you snatched the coin out of the air I'd swing for the fence on getting a QB and take TB and then begin praying that surely the Texans can't have the 1.1 for the third time in a year with no decent starting QBs.

* Having OB as the HC makes me more favorable on both TB and Manziel than I might be with another HC. From what I can tell his personality seems well suited to dealing with their respective issues.

This decision is where OB earns some of the offensive/QB guru accolades he has already received. We'll see.
 
leebigeztx said:
See,that's it,the warts. Of all the prospects,I think Clowney has the biggest most glaring imo. We can say TB is slight,but productive. Bortles is prototype,but green. Manziel is the rockstar before he deserves to be. Robinson has the physical gift to be dominant,but he's a lineman. Mack ,small school,hard to read. Clowney ,of all,is the so called super athlete who don't play hard and don't play to his athleticism.
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Is that just for LBs or does that apply to WRs, RBs, & QBs as well?
 
Apparently at least one NFC scouting director is convinced Clowney won't be giving the effort necessary to succeed in the NFL, though. He described Clowney as "spoiled" and "lazy," according to an nj.com report.

"He's never worked hard a day in his life, now all of a sudden you're going to give him a bunch of money and expect him to work hard. I don't see it," he said, per the report.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ard-a-day-in-his-life?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cb
 
“He’s spoiled, and he’s lazy,’’ the NFC personnel man said. “He’s never worked hard a day in his life, now all of a sudden you’re going to give him a bunch of money and expect him to work hard. I don’t see it.’’
...

“Oh, he’s going to be a high pick,’’ the personnel man said. “Some team will fall in love with him. But wait and see, just wait and see. I just don’t think you can count on him. I’m betting the under on him.’’

The same personnel man isn’t crazy about any of the defensive linemen in this draft.

“It’s a bad year,’’ he said. “It’s the worst group I’ve seen in a long time.’’
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http://www.nj.com/times-sports/index.ssf/2014/04/eckel_defensive_linemen_draft.html

Maybe this scouting director works for the Rams, who hosted Clowney on a visit Friday, and this is his way of trying to dissuade the Texans from taking Clowney so he falls to St. Louis, which holds the No. 2 overall pick. We don't know what "the under" is on Clowney, but we suspect plenty of NFL teams would be willing to take him up on that bet and gamble on Clowney's potential greatness.

An NFC scout was quoted as saying in the same nj.com story that Clowney is "going to be a top pick and he's going to be worth it."
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ard-a-day-in-his-life?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cb
 
Texian said:
Apparently at least one NFC scouting director is convinced Clowney won't be giving the effort necessary to succeed in the NFL, though. He described Clowney as "spoiled" and "lazy," according to an nj.com report.

"He's never worked hard a day in his life, now all of a sudden you're going to give him a bunch of money and expect him to work hard. I don't see it," he said, per the report.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ard-a-day-in-his-life?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cb
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Nice how you pick and choose from the article what to share.
From that same article:

Maybe this scouting director works for the Rams, who hosted Clowney on a visit Friday, and this is his way of trying to dissuade the Texans from taking Clowney so he falls to St. Louis, which holds the No. 2 overall pick. We don't know what "the under" is on Clowney, but we suspect plenty of NFL teams would be willing to take him up on that bet and gamble on Clowney's potential greatness.

An NFC scout was quoted as saying in the same nj.com story that Clowney is "going to be a top pick and he's going to be worth it."
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Say Watt said:
Why is O'Brien considered a QB guru? The guy coached Tom Brady, one of the top 5 QBs of all-time. I'm not exactly sure what that shows about his ability to coach QBs.
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Common knowledge. If that doesn't do it for you, I'd guess that his 13 years of working as a QB Coach qualifies him as a guru.
 
Near as I can tell Clowney is the only player in this Draft that one or more teams might consider moving up for ? If that's the case and assuming the Texans would like the opportunity to entertain offers for their 1.1, shouldn't the Texans by all appearances/reports (including "leaks") have every intention of drafting Clowney ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Near as I can tell Clowney is the only player in this Draft that one or more teams might consider moving up for ? If that's the case and assuming the Texans would like the opportunity to entertain offers for their 1.1, shouldn't the Texans by all appearances/reports (including "leaks") have every intention of drafting Clowney ?
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I don't think you show your hand one way or another. We need to seem like we want anyone that could possibly go 1.1.
 
I like that we have been radio silent about draft and FA moves. I think that's how it should be and how OB will run things while he's here. What kind of offense are we running? We're gonna run and throw the ball. Defense? Different schemes. No need to show your cards.
 
PapaL said:
I like that we have been radio silent about draft and FA moves. I think that's how it should be and how OB will run things while he's here. What kind of offense are we running? We're gonna run and throw the ball. Defense? Different schemes. No need to show your cards.
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Is it really any different that Kubiak & Smith ?! Kubiak didn't say much and when he did , he really didn't say much of anything , just coachspeak ....
 
Clowney won’t do any more private workouts before draft; LINK

South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney has put together a number of impressive displays of his physical gifts, from three years in college to the Combine to his pro day.

So he’s not putting any more out there until the draft.

According to Peter King of TheMMQB.com, Clowney won’t be doing any more individual workouts for teams until he’s chosen by one of them.

King cites the torn ACL of Clemson tackle Brandon Thomas as one of the reasons, but it really doesn’t need to be that hard. Simply put, he’s at a stage where there’s little left to prove, and not that many to prove it to, considering where he’ll be picked.

“I’d want the guy who’s going to be coaching him to put him through some of our drills, and see how he responds,” one General Manager said.

That seems the attitude of someone looking for a reason to not draft Clowney, in the face of plenty of evidence.
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Considering he's going in the top couple of picks, it's a wise career move...especially considering Brandon Thomas' injury during the Saints private workout.
 
PapaL said:
Clowney won’t do any more private workouts before draft; LINK

Considering he's going in the top couple of picks, it's a wise career move...especially considering Brandon Thomas' injury during the Saints private workout.
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Yeah, he's not a QB or WR, interested teams have seen all they need to see. Most important thing is getting to know him...
He still will visit teams and interview with coaches and GMs, but his next show-and-tell football performance will be after the draft in a mini-camp, with whichever team picks him.
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Brandon Thomas' injury is going to cost him $$$.
 
infantrycak said:
Did Kollar get the best out of Williams in their 3 seasons together?

I think the speculation about the good Watt would do for Clowney is no more than that - optimistic speculation. A lot of times those 200% guys thrive off of competing with another 200% guy like Cushing, not dragging some 80% guy around by the earlobe trying to get them up to 100.
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I'm not really sure if I'm remembering this correctly but in the first two seasons he had Williams weren't we in the 4-3 with Frank Bush in charge? If memory serves (about the seasons. I'm getting the stats from NFL.com) then he got 9 sacks out of him that first year, then Mario played 13 games the next year and had 8.5 sacks. The year after that Wade showed up, Mario moved to OLB, and played in 5 games before getting hurt. Had 5 sacks so call that a 15 sack pace give or take.

it's all speculation but that would have been Mario's career high sack total if it had played out like that over 16 games.

So "Maybe?"
 
Hervoyel said:
it's all speculation but that would have been Mario's career high sack total if it had played out like that over 16 games.

So "Maybe?"
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I don't see how you (generic) can give Kollar credit in his 3rd year with Mario for any improvement due to Philips and his system arriving. Bottom line, Mario had 14 and 12 sacks before Kollar, single digit with Kollar and then double digits both years after Kollar. Certainly not saying Kollar sucks and I didn't mean anything like that. Would obviously hope for the best if they draft Clowney, just saying relying on Kollar to get something extra out of Clowney seems unfounded.
 
infantrycak said:
I don't see how you (generic) can give Kollar credit in his 3rd year with Mario for any improvement due to Philips and his system arriving. Bottom line, Mario had 14 and 12 sacks before Kollar, single digit with Kollar and then double digits both years after Kollar. Certainly not saying Kollar sucks and I didn't mean anything like that. Would obviously hope for the best if they draft Clowney, just saying relying on Kollar to get something extra out of Clowney seems unfounded.
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I understand that. I'm just saying in response to the question "Did Kollar get the best out of Mario?" that the answer is "Possibly yes"

It doesn't mean that other people weren't capable of doing it too (getting the best out of Mario) or that Mario's "best" might not be all that we hoped it would be.
 
Allstar said:
Too bad we didn't have him in before he stopped workouts. Not that it really matters at all.
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No workouts on team visits.

...each team may transport a maximum of 30 draft-eligible players to the team’s home city or another location for a one-day physical examination. These players cannot be timed and tested. Interviews and written tests may be conducted during the visit.
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There is no limit on the number of prospects tested by a team on campus. Clubs also may time draft-eligible players, conduct on-field tests of draft-eligible players, and administer written tests to draft-eligible players in the metropolitan area of the player’s campus or hometown, at college postseason all-star game practice sessions, provided that the player is a participant in the all-star game, at a League-approved workout (Indianapolis Combine, NFL Regional Combines), and at the campus of any college located in the same state as the player’s college, provided that the player is attending a school in NCAA Division I-AA (Football Championship Subdivision), II, or III, an NAIA school, or a junior college, and further provided that the timing and testing only occurs on a school’s Pro Day, but only if the players have received permission from the hosting school’s Pro Liaison.
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Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout · 3h
People I've talked to around the league believe Clowney is not working out because he's been told he'll be the No. 1 pick.
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There ya go
 
Yep, still flabbergasted at the the number of media and talking heads who were completely over the moon after watching a man jump over a bean bag and then pick up a tennis ball.
 
Texian said:
Yep, still flabbergasted at the the number of media and talking heads who were completely over the moon after watching a man jump over a bean bag and then pick up a tennis ball.
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After the second drill Mayock was saying he had already made up his mind and never looked back from that statement. By the time he was picking up tennis balls he was already saying he should just catch his plane early because his mind was made up.
 
McClain went from Bortles, to Manziel and now to Clowney in his mocks. I guess he can say he was right if it is one of them.
 
Texian said:
Yep, still flabbergasted at the the number of media and talking heads who were completely over the moon after watching a man jump over a bean bag and then pick up a tennis ball.
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As opposed to a QB throwing passes while wearing shorts? That really shows he can make all the throws huh.
 
Texian said:
Yep, still flabbergasted at the the number of media and talking heads who were completely over the moon after watching a man jump over a bean bag and then pick up a tennis ball.
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If Mario Williams had creamed some poor bastard from Michigan, leading to constant media hyping, then people would have been over the moon for him in 2006.

Dude is a freak, jumping bean bags just confirmed it. Trying to figure out why you are surprised about the talking heads loving him. They've been loving him for two years.
 
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