Clowney, then what?

[steelbtexan]

Funnier to try and be insulted by a foul mouth, whiskey induced poster 'from the inner ring' ... maybe around here in this round table of the best Texans fan posters in the galaxy was the Peppers vs Carr debate epic and two sided.

In the real world the Texans made the smart move. Didnt pan out, not so much for Carrs inability, if not for Capers turning him into a crash dummy.

Last laugh = 1 or 2 rings is it?

But for some hall of fame accolade trumps a championship, I have a good idea which potty mouthed good ol boy around here was in Peppers' camp.

"mr I dont care what Andre Johnson says, thinks or does, Im Texan fan #1 and the only thing i care about is wins, I mean going to hall of fame, I mean ... LMAO.

Carr sitting on the bench getting SB rings doesn't equate to being worth 1-1. I was a Peppers guy at the time just like I'm a Clowney guy now. Peppers led his defense to a SB and almost won. How many conference championship game has Peppers been in? Peppers is/was a great player. Carr/Great player=LOL.

With that said Manziel is going to be the pick. The McNair's love him just like they loved Carr to be the face of the franchise. How do you feel about that since you're a TB guy? We are in agreement in that all that should matter are W/L's. The Texans org is more about providing entertainment value than putting a winning team on the field. JM is entertaining if nothing else and will keep a large segment of the teams fanbase very happy.

 

[thunderkyss]

This is why I hate the "this guy's not worth being taken at 1-1" mindset.

You've got to look at it in terms of... which pick is going to do the most to improve our team. Is Clowney going to make our team that much better?

Good post overall, the only criticism I have is that you have to look at the whole draft, not just one pick. If we take Clooney, or Robinson, or Watkins & take Murray, McCarran, or M anziel if he falls... is that better or worse than taking Bridgewater & who else?

I wasn't one of them but there were some saying we should trade down & take Cutler, Mangold, or D'Brickshaw. Looking back I wouldn't have had a problem with that, or even taking Cutler 1st overall... if we still got Demo in the second. Biggest knock on Cutler was that his team wasn't very successful & there were reasons for that.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Good post overall, the only criticism I have is that you have to look at the whole draft, not just one pick. If we take Clooney, or Robinson, or Watkins & take Murray, McCarran, or M anziel if he falls... is that better or worse than taking Bridgewater & who else?

The one thing I've learned doing the Texan's Talk Mock Drafts of the past few years is that you never know how it's going to play out. There are always surprises.

Let's say we take Bridgewater at 1-1, then Van Noy at 2-1, and then maybe Daniel McCullers at 3-1.

Or, we could take one of the QBs at 1-1, and then package up some picks and move back into the 1st to get Louis Nix.

We go out and get Austin Howard in FA to take over the RT spot. Or at 2-1 we could go after someone like a Richardson or a Kouandijo for RT.

There are a lot of options. The tone of your post makes it sound like if we take one of the QBs at 1-1, the rest of our draft is going to be a bunch of scrubs but if we take someone like Clowney, then we'll have a better rest of the draft.

On the defensive side, everything rests on what RAC thinks he can do with our current Defensive players and how he thinks he can shape this into a crew he can work with. I think his ideal scheme relies on a big guy in the middle like a Wilfork or a Washington. So I'm not going to be surprised to see us make some moves to get one. I wouldn't be surprised if we trade back and then trade back and get either Jernigan or Nix.

On the offensive side, I'm not too worried. It's all about the QB and the RT for me. I think we have a stable of TEs and WRs that OB is going to be happy with. I think we have enough talent along the line for him to work with except for the RT. That's why I'm expecting a QB at 1-1 -- either Bortles or Bridgewater... but I don't expect it enough to bet on it.

 

[thunderkyss]

Let's say we take Bridgewater at 1-1, then Van Noy at 2-1, and then maybe Daniel McCullers at 3-1.

No pass rusher even close to Clowney. That's my point. If you're one of those who think we should get the best pass rusher we can plus the best QB we can, you're in better shape if you take Clowney, then the best QB on the board in the second.

Or if you need the best WR & best QB, or the best OT & best QB...... there isn't going to be a pass rusher, WR, or OT available in the second round close to what you can get at those positions in the first.

The tone of your post makes it sound like if we take one of the QBs at 1-1, the rest of our draft is going to be a bunch of scrubs but if we take someone like Clowney, then we'll have a better rest of the draft.

Not at all..... I don't even want Clowney. What you suggested in this thread would be fine by me, even though I would go heavy on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

The one thing I've learned doing the Texan's Talk Mock Drafts of the past few years is that you never know how it's going to play out. There are always surprises.

On the offensive side, I'm not too worried. It's all about the QB and the RT for me. I think we have a stable of TEs and WRs that OB is going to be happy with. I think we have enough talent along the line for him to work with except for the RT. That's why I'm expecting a QB at 1-1 -- either Bortles or Bridgewater... but I don't expect it enough to bet on it.

OB is going to want at least one reliable big TE blocker........something of a stretch to call anyone on this team at the present.

 

[klockWork]

I take the team with a dominant D and a top 15 QB over a team with medicore D with a top 5 QB any day.

My question is if we draft Clowney, what are the odds the Texans D will become dominant. If we draft a QB at 1:1 what are the odds he becomes a top 5 QB in the future, assuming you're a believer that an elite QB can beat a dominant defense?

If we are that much closer of becoming a dominant defensive team with the addition of Clowney, then I take my chances with a 2nd round QB or free agents to produce at a top 15 level.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

OB is going to want at least one reliable big TE blocker........something of a stretch to call anyone on this team at the present.

I think he'll want a 6'5 or better TE .

 

[mussop]

The entire point being made earlier was that one guy on a D line isn't going to make or break any team. A great QB can and will. Mario was never a great Dlineman. He was never in the runnings for defensive players of the year. He was often injured, lacked explosiveness on a consistent basis, and disappeared a lot. The Texans sure as hell weren't going to pay him that kind of money and that right there is pretty alarming considering the fact that the Texans will lock guys up who deserve it. No one even questions if they will lock up Watt and he is everything Mario never could be. And even with Watt the Texans went 2-14 this season. Clowney is a guy who wasn't even an impact player this season when all eyes were on him to perform. That is a perfect example of a guy who will disappoint when the big moments are there.

If we were to draft Clowney that would be TWO potentially great DL on this team and I haven't seen anyone suggest we should stop there. There are six more draft picks not counting compensary picks and FA still to its lose for more picks.

Not taking a side In this debate or suggesting this is what we should do. Just pointing out that it's not a good argument to say just one DL isn't going to make a difference.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

If we were to draft Clowney that would be TWO potentially great DL on this team and I haven't seen anyone suggest we should stop there. There are six more draft picks not counting compensary picks and FA still to its lose for more picks.

Not taking a side In this debate or suggesting this is what we should do. Just pointing out that it's not a good argument to say just one DL isn't going to make a difference.

The thing is that one of the arguments seems to be that if we get Clowney and pair him up with Watt, our DL is going to be so dominant that we're going to be an automatic contender.

I have several problems with that.

The first is that I don't think Clowney is going to be a great defensive lineman. He has the talent to be but I don't think he's got the heart, the desire, or the motor for it. Granted, I could be wrong about that.

The second is that even if Clowney does become a great defensive lineman, is that really going to drastically improve our team? There are a lot of teams that have had great defensive lines that have not done all that well.

If we're going to shore up our line, I think we'd get a MUCH bigger boost by getting a guy to be our Wilfork/Washington and get rid of the smallish, penetrating NT experiment we've been having the past several years.

But... to me... our DEs weren't our problem last year. Our biggest problems last year were our:
1. QB
2. RT
3. OLB
4. S
5. NT

If we end up taking Clowney, great. I'll be pulling for him and I'm sure Crennel will be able to whip up something that uses him properly. But I hope we're a helluva lot smarter with our other picks and in FA so that we have some very impactful players at positions we really need to upgrade.

 

[TexansFTW]

I hear a lot of talking, but I haven't seen a lot of solutions. The real question here that everyone is overlooking by saying things like "freak of nature", "once in a decade talent", "etc." is How will he fit in the system?

He may be the most physically gifted player, but if he doesn't fit, or there is no spot for him, then it doesn't work IMO and should NOT be done.

He will almost certainly not be playing the 3-4 DE, so all this talk about our line improving is technically false FYI. But OK, moving on, so he might play the 'Elephant' AKA Willie McG, guess what that means? Merciless (first round pick 2 years ago is effectively rendered useless). So now you have added Clowney and subtracted Merciless. I have been very disappointed with him up to this point, but I'm not writing him off yet, which is what we would be doing.

So now, we are in a position where we need to draft Clowney, trade Merciless, and THEN go hope a QB that is a good fit will be there when you need them.

Oh and drafting Jimmy G at 2.01 not being a stretch (roughly 20-30 big board positions early) but drafting one of the big 3 at 1.01 (roughly 5-10 big board positions early) is not justified makes ZERO sense to me. If you are against reaching for a QB at 1.01, stand behind your statement and don't reach for them at 2.01 either. Maybe we can draft TJ Yates again in the 5th now.

Nomination for most ridiculous post of the year for sure.

I think he's implying that Carr got 2 rings without having to lift a finger.

 

[TexansFTW]

#16 Mario Williams
Total earnings: $33.2 million
Salary/winnings: $32.9 million
Endorsements: $250,000

Williams signed a $100 million, six-year free agent deal with the Buffalo Bills in March that includes $50 million in guaranteed money. The Houston Texans controversially chose Williams ahead of Reggie Bush with the number one overall draft pick in 2006, but Williams thrived in Texas with 53 sacks and two Pro Bowl appearances in six years.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45igdi/16-mario-williams/
****
THE 100 MILLION DOLLAR BUST, RIGHT ?

Are we measuring success in terms of contract dollars now? We could sign Michael Vick or Gilbert Arenas to a $100 MILL contract too, it doesn't mean it's right.

We also won 0 playoff games with Mario on the field, and it's pretty funny that our first playoff win in team history came the year he was on the IR.

How many playoff games did the Bills win the last 2 years BTW? I tried to Google it and NOTHING came up.

You could also trade a 2015 2nd for a 2014 3rd. Which is what I would try to do since this draft is so deep in talent.

Trading a 2 for a 3 is never good GM'ing IMO. We will soon begin to see that EVERY draft will become deeper and deeper. More and more younger players coming out every year.

More and More increase and separation in the popularity of football in America compared to other sports. I read somewhere the most popular sport in America was NFL. The #2... College Football.

More and more global players coming to the NFL, etc, etc, etc.

All I'm saying is that these drafts will be getting better and better every year, and I've got a funny feeling that the Texans won't go QB at #1 and this means that our 2nd is gonna be PRETTY valuable again.

All of this is just my opinion though.

 

[thunderkyss]

He may be the most physically gifted player, but if he doesn't fit, or there is no spot for him, then it doesn't work IMO and should NOT be done.

He will almost certainly not be playing the 3-4 DE, so all this talk about our line improving is technically false FYI. But OK, moving on, so he might play the 'Elephant' AKA Willie McG, guess what that means? Merciless (first round pick 2 years ago is effectively rendered useless). So now you have added Clowney and subtracted Merciless. I have been very disappointed with him up to this point, but I'm not writing him off yet, which is what we would be doing.

I agree with what you're saying. If Clowney doesn't fit, we shouldn't even be thinking about him. But this RAC & traditional 3-4 is just a bunch of yap. He was running hybrid defenses before it was cool. Give any DC worth his salt a Jj Watt & a JaDaveon Clowney & he'll get you something that works...

As far as Mecilus goes... he's had his opportunities to prove he can be a dominant pass rusher in the NFL. Just like Case, he hasn't shown enough to this point where we can take such an important position off the board. We don't need just a QB, or just a pass rusher, we need A QB, pass rusher, ILB, TE, OG, RB, Safety.... not in any particular order, but we need starters at all those positions except RB. Well, we've got Manning but just like Whitney & Case, they haven't earned a starting job.

Oh and drafting Jimmy G at 2.01 not being a stretch (roughly 20-30 big board positions early) but drafting one of the big 3 at 1.01 (roughly 5-10 big board positions early) is not justified makes ZERO sense to me. If you are against reaching for a QB at 1.01, stand behind your statement and don't reach for them at 2.01 either. Maybe we can draft TJ Yates again in the 5th now.

Well find a pass rusher, WR, OG that grades out like Clowney, Watkins, or Robinson in the second or later.

Granted, we can probably find an upgrade over Derek Newton in the second, or even 3.1 that's fine. You don't want the best OT in this draft, I understand.

Yes, we can probably find an ILB better than Darryl Sharpton (no relation) in the second, third, maybe even 4th.

But a pass rusher that is likely to be better than Whitney or Brooks in the second or later?? Not likely. All the "most likely to succeed" pass rusher will be gone before you're halfway through the first round.

But this is a deep QB draft. Metenberge..... everything you're looking for in a prototypical QB. Size, arm, competition level, pro offense...... he tore an ACL.... it's not like we expect him to be Cam Newton. Aj McCarron, another guy pretty close to prototypical.... suffered from being on a good team. But he's smart, accurate, stands in the pocket, ran a pro-ish system, set records in passing for Alabama. IMO those two should be 1st round prospects, but only so many team will be looking for a QB.

 

[thunderkyss]

But a pass rusher that is likely to be better than Whitney or Brooks in the second or later?? Not likely. All the "most likely to succeed" pass rusher will be gone before you're halfway through the first round.

Then again, we did "find" Sam Montgomery in the third & Travardo... then Willie Jefferson undrafted, so who knows?

 

[steelbtexan]

The thing is that one of the arguments seems to be that if we get Clowney and pair him up with Watt, our DL is going to be so dominant that we're going to be an automatic contender.

I have several problems with that.

The first is that I don't think Clowney is going to be a great defensive lineman. He has the talent to be but I don't think he's got the heart, the desire, or the motor for it. Granted, I could be wrong about that.

The second is that even if Clowney does become a great defensive lineman, is that really going to drastically improve our team? There are a lot of teams that have had great defensive lines that have not done all that well.

If we're going to shore up our line, I think we'd get a MUCH bigger boost by getting a guy to be our Wilfork/Washington and get rid of the smallish, penetrating NT experiment we've been having the past several years.

But... to me... our DEs weren't our problem last year. Our biggest problems last year were our:
1. QB
2. RT
3. OLB
4. S
5. NT

If we end up taking Clowney, great. I'll be pulling for him and I'm sure Crennel will be able to whip up something that uses him properly. But I hope we're a helluva lot smarter with our other picks and in FA so that we have some very impactful players at positions we really need to upgrade.

I'm in agreement with you on the needs. You can also add nickel CB to the list. The thing the Texans need to add the most is SPEED. This team has been lacking team speed for yrs.

We disagree about whether Clowney will be a star. Since I don't like any of the top 3 QB's in this draft it only makes since to draft the best player in the draft. I don't want to miss out on another Peppers. I try to learn from past history, which is take the player with the most potential for greatness instead of reaching for a QB because they need one. That's what they did with the 1st pick in franchise history and the franchise still hasn't really recovered from that decision. On the other hand if you think one of the QB's WILL be a top 5 QB then that's the pick. But I don't see any of them reaching that status.

With that said, BoB/Cal/Rick are going to pick Manziel, continuing the glitz over substance theme that's prevalent in the way the franchise is being run.

 

[TexansFTW]

With that said, BoB/Cal/Rick are going to pick Manziel, continuing the glitz over substance theme that's prevalent in the way the franchise is being run.

Completely agree with team speed, or if we get speed, those are the guys that don't know where to be on a football field.

While I think Rick is a bad GM at the draft I tend to disagree with this statement. When was the last time with our first pick that we passed up the 'best prospect' for the glitz?

I would argue the last time this was a relevant question we passed on the glitz (VY).

And if you don't reach on a QB in an NFL draft you will never draft a QB, that simple. It's like RBs in fantasy football. If you wait for best available player you are gonna have a team of like 14 WRs and a kicker, the only difference is that you can't draft Ben Roethlisberger in the 10th round of real football.

 

[thunderkyss]

And if you don't reach on a QB in an NFL draft you will never draft a QB, that simple.

Why do you believe this? Who had to reach on a QB to get a franchise guy?

Indy? GreenBay? New Orleans? Seattle?

The only reaches I see that are still playing in the league, are Vick, Newton, Bradford, Stafford... I'm sure there's another one out there, but I'm not seeing the evidence to back up your statement.

 

[steelbtexan]

Why do you believe this? Who had to reach on a QB to get a franchise guy?

Indy? GreenBay? New Orleans? Seattle?

The only reaches I see that are still playing in the league, are Vick, Newton, Bradford, Stafford... I'm sure there's another one out there, but I'm not seeing the evidence to back up your statement.

Don't be messing up his TB man love with facts.

You could also add Kaep/Foles/Romo/Dalton/Ben to the list of guys that are better than the reaches you listed.

So yes, you can find a QB without reaching, but since TB love is running rampant he cant see the forest for the trees.

Give me Clowney/Robinson/Mack/Barr/Matthews over the top 3 QB's any day and one of the 3M's or Garoppolo at 2-1.

 

[mussop]

Trading a 2 for a 3 is never good GM'ing IMO. We will soon begin to see that EVERY draft will become deeper and deeper. More and more younger players coming out every year.

All I'm saying is that these drafts will be getting better and better every year, and I've got a funny feeling that the Texans won't go QB at #1 and this means that our 2nd is gonna be PRETTY valuable again.

All of this is just my opinion though.

Next years draft will be weak. With so many underclassmen declaring this year it will have an effect on next years draft.

 

[djohn2oo8]

Don't be messing up his TB man love with facts.

You could also add Kaep/Foles/Romo/Dalton/Ben to the list of guys that are better than the reaches you listed.

So yes, you can find a QB without reaching, but since TB love is running rampant he cant see the forest for the trees.

Give me Clowney/Robinson/Mack/Barr/Matthews over the top 3 QB's any day and one of the 3M's or Garoppolo at 2-1.

lol Dalton.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Then again, we did "find" Sam Montgomery in the third & Travardo... then Willie Jefferson undrafted, so who knows?

We know haw many errors in evaluation/judgement were made on last year's draft class. One thing that I never posted on previously, was information that I researched on Trevardo Williams. Remember, when he had this uncharacterized injury he sustained in the preseason finale? All news reports coming from the Texans read "It's unclear what Williams' injury is, but his leg got "rolled up" in the preseason finale." Well, in the next to last game of the 2012 season with UConn, Williams suffered a severe right high ankle sprain and did not play again. While running the 40 at the Combine, he re-aggravated this same ankle. During his preseason finale with the Texans, this "rolled leg" should have been characterized as a "rolled ankle"...........and more accurately as a high ankle sprain re-injury. By now it should be well known that high ankle sprains can be very long-term recoveries if not "forever" type of concerns. The question again must be asked why he was taken in a spot that should have no real questions, especially for more immediate contribution. And, BTW, Willie Jefferson is now with the Bills.

 

[infantrycak]

By now it should be well known that high ankle sprains can be very long-term recoveries if not "forever" type of concerns. The question again must be asked why he was taken in a spot that should have no real questions, especially for more immediate contribution.

For clarification, are you saying someone who has ever had a high ankle sprain should not be taken in the 1st 3 rounds? - x rounds? - not unless they are more than a year post injury?

 

[TexansFTW]

Don't be messing up his TB man love with facts.

You could also add Kaep/Foles/Romo/Dalton/Ben to the list of guys that are better than the reaches you listed.

So yes, you can find a QB without reaching, but since TB love is running rampant he cant see the forest for the trees.

Give me Clowney/Robinson/Mack/Barr/Matthews over the top 3 QB's any day and one of the 3M's or Garoppolo at 2-1.

Come on now. I was going out of my way not to engage in a back and forth because this is ridiculous.

We obviously have a different view of a franchise QB and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own views and I respect yalls, but if you give me criteria of a 'reach', then I can use statistical data to crush these arguments and prove it's not just me being 'in love'.

Oh and TB being #3 on most draft boards after the season then dropping to #9 (on ESPN who is least credible) now is not a sign of fear for me. It confirms what I believe, that his football game said he was the best, but draft people are over thinking it and moving others ahead.

He's still #3 on NFL Draft Scout and countless other boards FYI.

Still only an 8 position 'reach' according to ESPN, but you want to do a 30 position reach on Jimmy G. Who is the one really reaching here and who is the one really blinded by love?

Next years draft will be weak. With so many underclassmen declaring this year it will have an effect on next years draft.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't believe it to be true. More people are choosing and playing football today than EVER before and by a wide margin. Then you can just re-read the other points I made in the post you're quoting. So yeah, you lost a lot of Juniors to the draft, but now the 1 million Sophomores that had to wait a year can now get a chance to showcase their skills.

73 UC declared last year, this was the previous record from what I see, but this draft is described by almost everyone I listen to as the biggest, deepest, and strongest in a long time.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

For clarification, are you saying someone who has ever had a high ankle sprain should not be taken in the 1st 3 rounds? - x rounds? - not unless they are more than a year post injury?

I'm saying that a fresh severe high ankle sprain that is later re-injured is a very strong red flag for poor performance over a long period of time. High ankle sprains typically take 6 months or longer of rest and rehab to heal. Despite re-injury during the Combine (Feb 28), Williams was put through minicamp, OTAs and preseason.........and during those periods he was not seen to be performing as expected.........then the coup de gras during the preseason game that landed him on IR. I don't believe that smart choices were made anywhere along the way.

 

[Playoffs]

 

[thunderkyss]

[IMGwidthsize=600]http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/clowney.jpeg[/IMG]

 

[disaacks3]

I'm saying that a fresh severe high ankle sprain that is later re-injured is a very strong red flag for poor performance over a long period of time. High ankle sprains typically take 6 months or longer of rest and rehab to heal. Despite re-injury during the Combine (Feb 28), Williams was put through minicamp, OTAs and preseason.........and during those periods he was not seen to be performing as expected.........then the coup de gras during the preseason game that landed him on IR. I don't believe that smart choices were made anywhere along the way.

What's the long-term prognosis on Clowney's bone spurs?

 

[infantrycak]

What's the long-term prognosis on Clowney's bone spurs?

Check post #1054 and move forward and there are a couple more where CnD discusses it.

 

[disaacks3]

I find it funny that at the time of the teams inception EVERYONE was saying how great a QB Carr would be, "he had all the tools, the gun, the legs, he can throw a ball into a trash can in the corner of the endzone from 40 yards a way for petes sake!!" a no brainer.

Now, all these years later people ridicule the move and make it seem like it was a stupid decision by the franchise. Hindsight right? Peppers did turn out to be the better pro. How many rings did he win by the way? Carr is the one who's had the last laugh if you ask me.

Years later, I wonder if the Carr decision had at least a little to do with the "face of the franchise" embodiment of a first ever pick for the Texans. Don't get me wrong. Carr's senior season was one for the ages, but he's definitely a "prettier" face for the public.

You might be able to make that argument some places. Not here. The debate over Carr and Peppers was epic.

Yep. Ultimately, we had a defensive guru who could work with what he had. If we'd only had an offense to go with it!

The first is that I don't think Clowney is going to be a great defensive lineman. He has the talent to be but I don't think he's got the heart, the desire, or the motor for it. Granted, I could be wrong about that.

Unlike the QB candidates, I expect him to let it all hang out at the combine. It'll probably look a lot like it did when I'd hoped that Von Miller would fall to the Texans. When the combine came around, it was him and then everyone else.

He reminds me so much of Mario in that he's virtually unstoppable when he wants to be.

 

[disaacks3]

Check post #1054 and move forward and there are a couple more where CnD discusses it.

Yeah, I'd seen that. I was just hoping he'd gotten more recent information on the exact spur type Clowney is dealing with.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

What's the long-term prognosis on Clowney's bone spurs?

Check post #1054 and move forward and there are a couple more where CnD discusses it.

I didn't want it to sound as if I were ignoring your question, as Cak has led you to posts that have tried to answer your question to the best of my ability.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2299799&postcount=1054

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2299800&postcount=1055

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2299833&postcount=1069

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Yeah, I'd seen that. I was just hoping he'd gotten more recent information on the exact spur type Clowney is dealing with.

Again, despite not knowing the exact nature of the bone spur(s), if surgery has been a consideration, then it means that it is significant enough to affect his performance as I think it did over the past season.

 

[disaacks3]

Again, despite not knowing the exact nature of the bone spur(s), if surgery has been a consideration, then it means that it is significant enough to affect his performance as I think it did over the past season.

Darn it, I want exact days lost and recovery timetable!!!

It'll be interesting to see how many days elapse after he's picked and the surgery takes place. I suspect whatever team won't be very patient.

 

[leebigeztx]

Don't be messing up his TB man love with facts.

You could also add Kaep/Foles/Romo/Dalton/Ben to the list of guys that are better than the reaches you listed.

So yes, you can find a QB without reaching, but since TB love is running rampant he cant see the forest for the trees.

Give me Clowney/Robinson/Mack/Barr/Matthews over the top 3 QB's any day and one of the 3M's or Garoppolo at 2-1.

Believe me when I tell you barr will be more manny lawson than aldon smith. I won't argue clowney,even though I think TB will be a franchise changing qb. Can't find enough about mack,matthews is a rt,and robinson is a lt which doesn't make sense. You can miss me on grappolo to with all the screens and stuff he ran. His arm and platform throwing leaves a lot to be desired.

In terms of the qb you list, romo was undrafted, sf moved up to get ck,and acorsi said many times he was prepared to take big ben if the trade didn't go thru. That said, don't know what ur saying about reaching. No one had gabbert,locker,ponder as really 1rd qbs. Go look at gabbert and his 14tds 7 ints in that mickey mouse offense. Jake locker sucked balls his last yr and ponder was avg as a sr. The only real 1st rd talent at qb was cam. Speaking of which, clowneys poor last yr is a huge red flag. When have we watched an elite propsect in college get 3 sacks? Even in 2012, he got 4.5 of his 12 in 1 game. Mario,peppers,miller,long, and all those other top ranked de's were gameplanned for and still had more than 3 sacks. Its not like he didn't have other nfl prospects on that defense to

 

[Playoffs]

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Looks every bit the part. Athletic marvel with raw explosive power and rare speed for his size. Is physically tough and will battle through injuries. Can collapse the corner with ease and rag-dolls blockers. Highly disruptive -- creates a lot of pressure and flushes production to his teammates. Can split the double team and closes in a hiccup. Plays with leverage and power in his hands -- converts speed into power and bulls blockers into the backfield. Disrupts a quarterback's vision with long arms and can bat down balls. Seldom leaves the field. Flashes playmaking ability and can produce athletic feats in a category with few others before him. Versatile -- lines up everywhere along the line and can win with strength, power, quickness and speed. Has the personality of a pleaser and does not like to disappoint coaches or teammates.

WEAKNESSES Is more thinly built in the lower body. Inconsistent technician. Has a tendency to play tall. Down-to-down effort lacks consistency. Lacks discipline on and off the field and has had to be managed closely since he arrived on campus. Needs to learn what it means to be a pro. Plays in spurts and is too much a of flash player -- does not consistently dominate like he could. Is still immature and finding his way -- too much of a follower.

NFL COMPARISON Jevon Kearse

BOTTOM LINE A physical specimen with a rare size-speed combination, Clowney was not as impactful as a junior while playing through injuries and being forced to deal with opposing offenses that fully accounted for him with extra chip protection. Was a 20-year-old junior affected by turnover on the defensive coaching staff. Could benefit tremendously from a stable positional coach and strong, veteran mentor on the defensive line who will hold him accountable, show him the way and serve as a fatherly figure. Is one of the most unique talents in the draft and could easily be a double-digit sack producer in the pros from either end. Is every bit worthy of the first overall pick -- will immediately upgrade a defensive line and improve the production of those around him.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I'm not a doctor, nor did I recently stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but I can't see bone spurs as a reason not to draft him or even look at him at 1.1. Players have bone spur cleanups all the time and are back within a month or two.

Our own DB had spurs cleaned out in his ankle last offseason and was back for camp.

It's up to our medical staff to determine the severity of it, but I'm not going to overlook the best player in the draft because of bone spurs

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Darn it, I want exact days lost and recovery timetable!!!

It'll be interesting to see how many days elapse after he's picked and the surgery takes place. I suspect whatever team won't be very patient.

Any smart team.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I'm not a doctor, nor did I recently stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but I can't see bone spurs as a reason not to draft him or even look at him at 1.1. Players have bone spur cleanups all the time and are back within a month or two.

Our own DB had spurs cleaned out in his ankle last offseason and was back for camp.

It's up to our medical staff to determine the severity of it, but I'm not going to overlook the best player in the draft because of bone spurs

I in no way disagree......in fact, I want Clowney as our #1. I'm just a little concerned the longer he delays whatever corrective surgery he has been found to be in need of, because if it has and is giving him performance problems already, structures are being worn down and more damage is being created.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I in no way disagree......in fact, I want Clowney as our #1. I'm just a little concerned the longer he delays whatever corrective surgery he has been found to be in need of, because if it has and is giving him performance problems already, structures are being worn down and more damage is being created.

I can definitely agree with that. With the way he's supposedly been training to tear up the Combine kinda leads me to believe it'd be a minor clean up. But, I reckon we'll know more when he does his Combine medicals. Hopefully

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I can definitely agree with that. With the way he's supposedly been training to tear up the Combine kinda leads me to believe it'd be a minor clean up. But, I reckon we'll know more when he does his Combine medicals. Hopefully

More worrisome to me is that by some sources, he has been dealing with problems secondary to bone spurs since his high school days.

He evidently knows that he needs the surgery (but keeps putting it off), as chronicled by this information:

Creating a potential issue for Clowney, though, are bone spurs in his right foot that will likely require surgery. However, he revealed in his interview with Patrick that he intends to postpone the surgery indefinitely.

"I doubt it," he said when asked if the surgery would happen after the combine. "It just depends on what the teams want, that get me in the draft. They want me to get it, I'll get it. If they don't, it shouldn't bother me. I'll try to wait until the next offseason to get it done."

link

I found this in a September 2013 piece.

After the game, USC star defensive end Jadeveon Clowney admitted that his foot injury that hampered him last year is bothering him again.

Clowney missed the Wofford game last season and was slowed throughout the year with a right foot injury.

“It's painful,” Clowney said. “I'm out here playing on it though. I'm just trying to give it everything I've got.”

Clowney said the only way the foot will improve this season is with rest.

“It only bothers me when I'm out there. It just builds up pain,” he said. “The more I keep going the more it bothers me.”

Clowney plans to have surgery this offseason to fix the problem.

“I'm going to get it cleaned out after the season's over with,” he said.

link

He seems to be a smart player........not necessarily a smart thinker.

 

[steelbtexan]

lol Dalton.

Dalton is who I think TB will end up closest too.

Manziel = Romo

Bortles = Nick Foles

 

[Marshall]

Completely agree with team speed, or if we get speed, those are the guys that don't know where to be on a football field.

While I think Rick is a bad GM at the draft I tend to disagree with this statement. When was the last time with our first pick that we passed up the 'best prospect' for the glitz?

I would argue the last time this was a relevant question we passed on the glitz (VY).

And if you don't reach on a QB in an NFL draft you will never draft a QB, that simple. It's like RBs in fantasy football. If you wait for best available player you are gonna have a team of like 14 WRs and a kicker, the only difference is that you can't draft Ben Roethlisberger in the 10th round of real football.

Being willing to reach on a great QB is not the same as reaching on a good QB. Reaching on a good QB is foolish in my humble opinion. But if the coaches see more than I do, then go for it. But if they see less, don't think they haven't given the QBs a long look before going with the BPA.

Good QBs don't become great QBs because they were picked sooner. Great QBs are picked sooner because they are Great.

 

[infantrycak]

Being willing to reach on a great QB is not the same as reaching on a good QB.

Ummm, if it is a great QB how is it a reach?

 

[matts290]

Being willing to reach on a great QB is not the same as reaching on a good QB. Reaching on a good QB is foolish in my humble opinion. But if the coaches see more than I do, then go for it. But if they see less, don't think they haven't given the QBs a long look before going with the BPA.

Good QBs don't become great QBs because they were picked sooner. Great QBs are picked sooner because they are Great.

The thing is, if a team does "reach" for a QB, then they must believe they are great, at least in relation to where they are being taken.

EJ Manuel, now that was a reach in my opinion, but only time will tell. I don't think Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles to a lesser extent will be considered a reach if we draft them first overall, at least in the present time. A year or two down the road if they don't pan out, of course it may be seen as a reach then, but you know what they say about hindsight.

 

[Marshall]

Ummm, if it is a great QB how is it a reach?

A reach is above expectation, not an evaluation that differs for the better than the collective evaluation.

In other words. Your coaches see great while the collective expectation is good. Then you reach. If you come up with the same good evaluation that the collective expectation is, you don't reach. You don't reach because the past history shows some reaches wind up great. You reach if YOUR evaluation is better than the collective.

Redundancy much?

 

[TexansFTW]

Good QBs don't become great QBs because they were picked sooner. Great QBs are picked sooner because they are Great.

Are you sure about this? I thought if you drafted them in the first round they transformed into something else. Kind of like pumpkins becoming carriages. Just don't get caught out after midnight if you Naw sayin'.

Real quick. Everyone is talking on TB like he's this dramatic reach. He's been evaluated anywhere from #3-9 (ESPN, let's actually throw them out).

Drafting a QB rated as a top 5-6 (on average) prospect is not reaching people.

He is rated higher than Cam Newton and on par with other #1 QBs that include Alex Smith, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning. Rated higher than high drafted QBs that include Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Ben Ro.

A reach is taking Tannehill at #1 and this is what is being described. This is simply not the case. Hate him if you want, it is your God Given Right ('Merica!) to hate whatever you so choose for the most absurd reasons you choose, but to talk like this guy is middling 2nd round talent is just the most false thing going around these boards lately.

 

[steelbtexan]

My top 2

1.Clowney
2. Robinson

 

[leebigeztx]

My top 2

1.Clowney
2. Robinson

I still don't know how a player of clowneys physical can be considered great with 3 sacks in college football. Can you ever recall a pass rusher considered a top prospect with such limited production coming out? I might be missing someone,but in the last 10 yrs, I can't think of anyone.

 

[infantrycak]

I still don't know how a player of clowneys physical can be considered great with 3 sacks in college football. Can you ever recall a pass rusher considered a top prospect with such limited production coming out? I might be missing someone,but in the last 10 yrs, I can't think of anyone.

All the others were stupid and actually tried their last season. Clowney was smart.

 

[leebigeztx]

All the others were stupid and actually tried their last season. Clowney was smart.

I know, right. Guy called in to sirius today and talked about texans taking clowney #1. Clowney is a monster the caller stated. Kirwin said monsters don't have 2 sacks,lol. I mean for all those who want clowney because he's a freak,none can tell me how a guy with his freakish skill had 3 sacks.3 sacks,that's it. How many did von miller have? You don't think people were turning protection and chipping him? Mario, whom poster like to claim was half assin' it, he had like 13 sacks and 20 tfls as a jr. 3 sacks,that's it. I'm listening.

 

[infantrycak]

Mario, whom poster like to claim was half assin' it, he had like 13 sacks and 20 tfls as a jr. 3 sacks,that's it. I'm listening.

Peppers - 9.5 sacks, 19 tfl, 63 tkl
Mario - 14.5 sacks, 24 tfl, 62 tkl
Clowney - 3 sacks, 11.5 tfl, 40 tkl