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Clowney, then what?

kiwitexansfan said:
Would you take Aldon Smith 1:1?
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Aldon Smith is the premier edge rusher in the NFL. But knowing what is now known regarding his character...no way. Clowney has that kind of talent, probably more talented. What about his makeup? That's difficult for fans like us to answer. He doesn't have the documented problems that Smith has. From a football standpoint, Clowney should be considered for the the top pick.
 
Lucky said:
Which makes sense, as Atlanta is close to home and has a top 10 pick. Maybe they will trade up to take him? Their GM is pretty aggressive.
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True I think they did that with Jones (not 100% certain)

Can't see why someone would say it though and risk alienating fans of other teams.
 
Lucky said:
Which makes sense, as Atlanta is close to home and has a top 10 pick. Maybe they will trade up to take him? Their GM is pretty aggressive.
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Trading out is starting to feel more appealing.

If TB had run and thrown I wouldn't feel that way, I'm still ready for Teddy but less than I was.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
If TB had run and thrown I wouldn't feel that way, I'm still ready for Teddy but less than I was.
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I think you are letting the talking-heads and anti-Bridgewater brigade get into your head.

Many top prospects skip events at the combine. He did do some of the events, and tested pretty well considering he is not really a dual-threat guy.

He will run and throw at his pro day. If he does not, then yeah, I worry. But now? Much ado about nothing.
 
rmartin65 said:
I think you are letting the talking-heads and anti-Bridgewater brigade get into your head.

Many top prospects skip events at the combine. He did do some of the events, and tested pretty well considering he is not really a dual-threat guy.

He will run and throw at his pro day. If he does not, then yeah, I worry. But now? Much ado about nothing.
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I just like a guy competing and not being defensive, which not throwing or running sounds like.
 
[IMGwidthsize=300]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/53623f38fc74fd9ccb9deabd284fb6d8744044db/r=x117&c=155x114/http/videos.usatoday.net/Brightcove2/29906170001/2014/02/29906170001_3246566477001_vs-530a5374e4b0e4ced33dc2fa-1083021586001.jpg[/IMG]

Dee Ford: I'm better than Clowney

"I'm better. Let's put it like this. People like to talk about size all the time. Size is pretty much overrated in my eyes," Ford said. "You can look at guys like Robert Mathis, Elvis Dumervil, Von Miller. These are 6-2 guys and under. People are just looking at the fact that he's a physical specimen. Honestly if you watch the film, he plays like a blind dog in a meat market basically.

"I play with a lot of technique. I watch a lot of film. These are the things I do and it shows up."

Ford also urged anyone that doubts him to "go watch the film."
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Tearstain said:
Clowney has just been quoted saying he wants the Falcons to trade up to get him....
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I'd have to hear/see the quote & the question he was asked. I'm sure they didn't ask, "How would you like the draft to pan out?"

Probably something more like, "Would you like it if Atlanta traded up to get you?"
 
Clowney leaned down to 266 for the Combine, but he'll played heavier than that last Fall. He just turned 21 a week ago, so after he's settled into an NFL training-weight routine he'll probably comfortably be in the 275-280 range and heavier in a couple years.
 
leebigeztx said:
I'm a luck fan, but what has been so special about his performance thus far as a pro? He has moxy, I know that,but from week to week he's very inconsistent.
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I think he's been everything as advertised. First year; gets team into playoff despite being on a pretty gutted team.Second year leads them to division crown and playoff win. Consider all that with a subpar WR corps, a barely breathing running game, and a mediocre at best OL. IMO I think some of his inconsistencies are due to having to be a big portion of why his team wins games.

Just me though.
 
Goldensilence said:
I think he's been everything as advertised. First year; gets team into playoff despite being on a pretty gutted team.Second year leads them to division crown and playoff win. Consider all that with a subpar WR corps, a barely breathing running game, and a mediocre at best OL. IMO I think some of his inconsistencies are due to having to be a big portion of why his team wins games.

Just me though.
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I'm just saying,the best attribute luck has shown is his ability to know the moment. He hasn't been an all pro or even pro bowl caliber qb. I agree with you in that he's the reason they win games late. Reggie Wayne is not avg neither is hilton. They also spent 2 picks on te's for luck. I was responding to the posters who say, there's no Luck, so let's just pass on a qb. That's non sense. The fact he's in your division is reason enough to get a qb.
 
leebigeztx said:
I was responding to the posters who say, there's no Luck, so let's just pass on a qb. That's non sense. The fact he's in your division is reason enough to get a qb.
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I don't think anyone is against us getting a QB. Personally I don't believe the QBs at "projected" at the top of this draft are any better prospects than the ones "projected" to be there at 2-1.

There is elite talent in this draft, why spend the 1-1 on anything less?
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't think anyone is against us getting a QB. Personally I don't believe the QBs at "projected" at the top of this draft are any better prospects than the ones "projected" to be there at 2-1.

There is elite talent in this draft, why spend the 1-1 on anything less?
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I think the gap is less between QBs than it is other positions .
 
leebigeztx said:
I'm just saying,the best attribute luck has shown is his ability to know the moment. He hasn't been an all pro or even pro bowl caliber qb. I agree with you in that he's the reason they win games late. Reggie Wayne is not avg neither is hilton. They also spent 2 picks on te's for luck. I was responding to the posters who say, there's no Luck, so let's just pass on a qb. That's non sense. The fact he's in your division is reason enough to get a qb.
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Taking the Colts to the playoffs his first 2 yrs in the NFL on a talent deficient offense is pretty good. IMHO

The worst thing that can be done is reaching for a QB that's not a franchise QB just because Luck is in your division.

Garappolo and McCarron were the most impressive QB's today. IMHO If one of these QB's were drafted, I could really get on board with drafting Robinson at 1-1.
 
steelbtexan said:
Taking the Colts to the playoffs his first 2 yrs in the NFL on a talent deficient offense is pretty good. IMHO

The worst thing that can be done is reaching for a QB that's not a franchise QB just because Luck is in your division.
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Yeah.

If you're that worried about Luck, THAT's when you draft Clowney and hope that the combo of Clowney, Watt, and Cush and hopefully some other defensive talent later in the draft can offset him and shut him down.
 
steelbtexan said:
Taking the Colts to the playoffs his first 2 yrs in the NFL on a talent deficient offense is pretty good. IMHO

The worst thing that can be done is reaching for a QB that's not a franchise QB just because Luck is in your division.

Garappolo and McCarron were the most impressive QB's today. IMHO If one of these QB's were drafted, I could really get on board with drafting Robinson at 1-1.
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Or I can take TB and Dee Ford and feel great too. Lt is never an option for me with a all pro tgype who is 27 on the roster. So I guess Cleveland should draft the best ol at 4 even with joe thomas?
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't think anyone is against us getting a QB. Personally I don't believe the QBs at "projected" at the top of this draft are any better prospects than the ones "projected" to be there at 2-1.

There is elite talent in this draft, why spend the 1-1 on anything less?
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I went over my concerns with not going QB in the who you would take #1 thread. Problem is this: the NFL is a QB driven league. Sooner or later the FO is going to have to commit to the position. Of the second tier QBs in this draft are any day one ready? Realistically ?

If the FO could squeak another year out of Schaub AND didn't have a large cap hit coming for him; sure go for the whichever second tier guy you think has highest ceiling. Disgustingly, it could well be Carr. Problem is they don't have that luxury unless they want to bring in a vet as a stop gap until said draft pick is ready. Problem is I don't see a Kaep or someone close to that kind of ceiling or someone equates to Wilson. If you're lucky one might turn into Andy Daulton.

What concerns me of those second tier guys is how often were they called on to lead those offense for a win and how did they respond? Few questions about top there which is why they're at the top. Mettenburger has the arm and prototypical size you want ,but good lord he was just so underwhelming at LSU and you want him to be your guy in the fourth quarter when it matters?! McCarron comes close to fitting the bill and has built in advantage of facing Nick Saban defenses. I'm just not sure I'm sold on him when it matters. Garrapolo haven't seen enough, but competition he's played has got to be a concern and learning curve. Carr same. Murray is coming back from a significant injury. Thomas is so raw, but has physical tools.

I not saying the FO HAS to take one of the "Big 3" at one, but I'm not a fan of lowballing the position and hoping for the best.
 
Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris
Disruption is production.
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ClowneyBlockSplit2_crop_exact.png
 
Playoffs said:
[IMGwidthsize=300]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/53623f38fc74fd9ccb9deabd284fb6d8744044db/r=x117&c=155x114/http/videos.usatoday.net/Brightcove2/29906170001/2014/02/29906170001_3246566477001_vs-530a5374e4b0e4ced33dc2fa-1083021586001.jpg[/IMG]

Dee Ford: I'm better than Clowney
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I dont think i've ever seen 1 prospect blatantly go at another prospect like this....makes you wonder....i happen to agree with Dee Ford. Clowney had alot of free runs at guys....didnt really see the domination play in, play out that you'd think you'd see from a guy with his measurables and athleticism.
 
rmartin65 said:
I think you are letting the talking-heads and anti-Bridgewater brigade get into your head.

Many top prospects skip events at the combine. He did do some of the events, and tested pretty well considering he is not really a dual-threat guy.

He will run and throw at his pro day. If he does not, then yeah, I worry. But now? Much ado about nothing.
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It just bothers me that guys - QBs - who claim to be uber-competitive opt out on the biggest pre-draft stage in existence.

Throwing at the combine isn't about how many passes you complete it's about can you make all the throws you're asked to make. Will your performance - arm strength, accuracy, ability to hit guys that you don't really know - make you stand out among all the other guys out there trying to impress NFL brass?

Throwing at your home field, to your own guys, with a script you've practiced over and over again, is much less impressive than showing the ability to perform in the combine.
 
Mr teX said:
I dont think i've ever seen 1 prospect blatantly go at another prospect like this....makes you wonder....i happen to agree with Dee Ford. Clowney had alot of free runs at guys....didnt really see the domination play in, play out that you'd think you'd see from a guy with his measurables and athleticism.
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Because he hears it,but don't see it. I'm 43 and have immersed in the draft stuff since I was in high school. I've never seen a college player with so much so called talent who performed worse than clowney last yr. I tried to go back and just remember a so called physical freak getting 3 sacks and 0 forced fumbles.
 
leebigeztx said:
Winston was a 3rd rd pick and played well for awhile. Just because u go tb,ford, doesn't mean you can't take james or other high rated tackle prospect.
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The question is really about how sure you are that the guy is going to do well.

I'm not sure any of these QBs are going to produce at the next level but I am sure that Robinson and Matthews are. So. If it were me, instead of risking my job by drafting guys I'm not sure about, I'd go with the sure bet. If we have Brown-Quessenberry-Myers-Brooks-Robinson/Matthews, we'll have a line capable of making bad running backs and quarterbacks look a heck of a lot better than they are. Keenum might even have enough time to do his thing.

OTOH, if you're sure that TB is going to be a franchise guy, then you'd go the other way. I don't get a good feeling that any of these guys (TB, BB, JM, AJM, HWWNBN-P2, ZM, etc) are immediate worldbeaters. There's nothing wrong with us having a differing opinion on that.

We can always go Robinson and then Ford and we've improved both sides of the ball pretty drastically.
 
leebigeztx said:
Because he hears it,but don't see it. I'm 43 and have immersed in the draft stuff since I was in high school. I've never seen a college player with so much so called talent who performed worse than clowney last yr. I tried to go back and just remember a so called physical freak getting 3 sacks and 0 forced fumbles.
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He's the first person in the history of college football that's been schemed against, double-teamed, and chipped on every play.

EVAR.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
He's the first person in the history of college football that's been schemed against, double-teamed, and chipped on every play.

EVAR.
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I'm not sure if you're playing or being serious. Coming off 13 sacks,4 of which came in the last game vs clemson,why would he be the 1st in the history of cf to be schemed against? Peppers had 15 sacks as a freshman,I guess they didn't do anything to contain him right? After marios soph yr, I guess they just let him do whatever too right?
 
ObsiWan said:
It just bothers me that guys - QBs - who claim to be uber-competitive opt out on the biggest pre-draft stage in existence.

Throwing at the combine isn't about how many passes you complete it's about can you make all the throws you're asked to make. Will your performance - arm strength, accuracy, ability to hit guys that you don't really know - make you stand out among all the other guys out there trying to impress NFL brass?

Throwing at your home field, to your own guys, with a script you've practiced over and over again, is much less impressive than showing the ability to perform in the combine.
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Manziel found out that the Combine QB performance testing categories would not include his greatest strength..................he would not be able to show off his Hail Mary techniques.
 
Goldensilence said:
Of the second tier QBs in this draft are any day one ready? Realistically ?

Problem is I don't see a Kaep or someone close to that kind of ceiling or someone equates to Wilson. If you're lucky one might turn into Andy Daulton.

What concerns me of those second tier guys is how often were they called on to lead those offense for a win and how did they respond? Few questions about top there which is why they're at the top.
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See... feels like I'm in Bizarro world. Manziel, Bridgewater, & Bortles..... every body is looking at the as if they're the best in this draft class. While I think McCarron & Murray should be at the top of this draft with Bridgewater, Bortles, & Connor Shaw as the second tier guys.

McCarron & Murray are the only guys in this draft I'd think about starting day 1 running anything that looks like an NFL offense. Everyone else will need a college, Hybrid offense, or won't be ready till the second half of the season if not next year.


& Aaron Murray looks a lot like Russell Wilson to me.

I'll get crucified & put on a lot of ignore list (more ignore lists) for this post. But seriously, I don't understand what's going on & what people are looking at. Maybe the game has passed me by, maybe my views haven't adapted to the "new" NFL.... but that's the way I see it.
 
leebigeztx said:
Winston was a 3rd rd pick and played well for awhile. Just because u go tb,ford, doesn't mean you can't take james or other high rated tackle prospect.
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We've never had an offensive line that allows the QB to sit & survey the field. Winston's strength was mauling over fat dudes & providing a running lane. Schaub's strength was making it look like he was handing the ball off & getting rid of the ball on time. Winston would have looked like crap with a QB learning to play at this level (Carr).

Bye the bye, he's a free agent again.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Manziel found out that the Combine QB performance testing categories would not include his greatest strength..................he would not be able to show off his Hail Mary techniques.
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Nor could he be assured that Evans would be on the other end of those Hail Marys to make him look good.
:D
 
thunderkyss said:
We've never had an offensive line that allows the QB to sit & survey the field. Winston's strength was mauling over fat dudes & providing a running lane. Schaub's strength was making it look like he was handing the ball off & getting rid of the ball on time. Winston would have looked like crap with a QB learning to play at this level (Carr).

Bye the bye, he's a free agent again.
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U do know winston played as a rookie when carr was the qb,right? Btw, most rt are run blockers vs pass blockers. There are some who are good pass blockers,but most are run blockers. Most teams are right handed so the rt is the power run side. Texans were fortunate that Brown is just as good run blocking as he is pass blocking. There are not many who do what he do.
 
thunderkyss said:
See... feels like I'm in Bizarro world. Manziel, Bridgewater, & Bortles..... every body is looking at the as if they're the best in this draft class. While I think McCarron & Murray should be at the top of this draft with Bridgewater, Bortles, & Connor Shaw as the second tier guys.

McCarron & Murray are the only guys in this draft I'd think about starting day 1 running anything that looks like an NFL offense. Everyone else will need a college, Hybrid offense, or won't be ready till the second half of the season if not next year.


& Aaron Murray looks a lot like Russell Wilson to me.

I'll get crucified & put on a lot of ignore list (more ignore lists) for this post. But seriously, I don't understand what's going on & what people are looking at. Maybe the game has passed me by, maybe my views haven't adapted to the "new" NFL.... but that's the way I see it.
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Connor Shaw,at least from what I remember, injury prone and relies on running game more than arm. Murray, torn ACL is limiting his ability to showcase what he can do. With good recovery time possibly ready to start the season, dunno if he'd get cleared for TV. Only reason he's not in second tier. Bio says 6'1" but not sure about his arm.

McCarron did enough in throwing drills to show he's a second rounder, good but not great arm. Not his fault but being surrounded by a lot of talent at Bama IMO makes grading him more difficult. Didn't blow away in other drills, but more know as pocket passer. However, got to wonder how moves in pocket and feels pressure. Prolly best of second tier guys.
 
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