texanhead08
All Pro
OG,TE,WR, OT, DT,DE, OLB,ILB,CB,S,QB, K, and coaches....did i leave anything out.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Clowney, then what?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
A Heart.
RB, new uniforms and a witch doctor
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Issue: RT, LG-
Duane Brown, Myers, Brooks are all plus players, IMO... I think Ben Jones is marginal depth (probably better if we move away from the ZBS)
I think Quizz is, at least, a competitor at either LG or RT to start next year. Brennan Williams knee health means that they should not count on him for anything in the off-season.
I would like to see the Texans grab a quality veteran capable of starting but affordable enough to be depth on the line and then spend one pick in the first four rounds addressing the line, at the least.
BigBull
Rookie
As nice as that pick might be in 2015 I don't think I could keep my sanity through another season like they're currently having.
Sent from the future...
In all honesty, I felt better about the OL yesterday than any other part of the team. I know there were a lot of free blitzers, but I don't know how they're "supposed" to block those. I don't know what the schemes & calls were. They looked like they were doing what they were supposed to be doing.
Even the sack given up for a safety by Brown.... he did his job & Case ran into a sack. I know, I know, play to the whistle & all that jazz... but you're standing in the end zone when the ball is snapped. Who in the hell, but Case Keenum, is going to hold on to the ball?
But still. They all seemed to handle their one on one assignments fairly well. Good enough for this league anyway. Some of their calls & blitz identifying just didn't make a lot of sense.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
That has a lot to do with the QB, whether people want to admit it or not. It's the reason Kubiak pulled Keenum twice before he got the axe.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
First I would look at getting either Eugene Monroe or Michael Oher, which ever one the Ravens don't keep, and making them the starting RT. Baltimore won't be able to keep both.
then I look at the draft picks from last year, Quessenberry or Williams, and see which one can replace Wade Smith and put the other at guard. Move Brooks, I think he was a center in college, to Center and get rid of Meyers. I want my Oline to average 310-315 lbs, forget the ZBS, its time for smash mouth running game.
THEN I look for my QB of the future...
but that is just me...
then I look at the draft picks from last year, Quessenberry or Williams, and see which one can replace Wade Smith and put the other at guard. Move Brooks, I think he was a center in college, to Center and get rid of Meyers. I want my Oline to average 310-315 lbs, forget the ZBS, its time for smash mouth running game.
THEN I look for my QB of the future...
but that is just me...
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Brooks played OG and OT in college. IIRC, he never played Center. I wouldn't play him at Center either. He is a pure mauler at OG and you don't take a guy who has the power to block DT's 1-on-1 and move him to C.
I agree about finding a vet O-Lineman to bring in and I do think Quessenberry can win the LG job. I was very high on him coming out last year and thought he would be the steal of the draft being taken that late.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Ah ok, I know one of the O-lineman that was playing Guard, played Center in college.
Man if they could get Monroe away from Baltimore and put him on the RT, you have Pro-Bowl caliber bookend Tackles and build inward from there.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Jones is the one who played Center in college.
And yes, if you land a FA OT, then you can help solidify the biggest weakness on the O-Line and can use your #1 draft pick on another position like pass rusher or QB.
It would have to be a vet minimum RT. Would you bring Winston back? I personally think that ship has sailed.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I won't even start naming names because 1) I'm not clear on the cap situation for next year and 2) We don't know who the HC will be.
Winston is certainly an upgrade over Newton so I'd take him if it came down to that.
Why?
We're going to have money from letting Schaub walk alone. Wade Smith will also be off the books & we've still got other options..... Danieal Manning, I wouldn't be surprised if we let him go, or renegotiate with him & Jjo (who had flashes of his old self Sunday).
If Rick Smith is finally allowed to put on his big boy pants, we may see a very different off-season. & yes, if we sign a respectable FA OT, I'd be a little more open to drafting a QB with that first overall, even in this draft.
Tell me honestly, didn't your backside pucker up when Duane first got hurt earlier this season?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Because that is his story no matter what. You can bet the Texans will get multiple FA's for more than vet min. this offseason just like they went out and got Lechler last year.
Let's say the Texans believe Jadeveon Clowney is too good to pass up. What next?
What other needs, should they plan to address.
If you're cutting players to create cap space, who & how much?
How do you address the needs created by "creating cap space"?
What other needs, should they plan to address.
If you're cutting players to create cap space, who & how much?
How do you address the needs created by "creating cap space"?
CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
It's obvious I think. This team has no starting QB. There's a reason why QBs are so prized. They are the leaders on a team, and we desperately need one.
houstonspartan
All Pro
bhsman
Rookie
If the Texans go with Clowney, I could see them either trading up for a guy like Boyd, taking someone like Mettenberger in the second and having him heal, or even a third-round prospect like Morris, Fales or Murray and having them compete with Yates and Keenum. There's also the possibility of bringing in a guy like McCown for a year stopgap, especially if we take an injured/raw prospect.
If our drafted QB is in an actual competition with Yates or Keenum then we are screwed.
Both of those guys are worthless.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
Let's say Clowney is as good as advertised and Watt earns his big contract. What I want to know is how can you afford to keep two top DE? That time is going to come. That's big, big money tied to the same position. Are the Texans going to "rent" Clowney during his rookie contract while hoping we win a SB with a later round QB pick? Last time I checked points win you games. You only need a defense to hold your opponent just enough to win.
Here's a thought. Maybe if the Texans actually had a competent QB to make drives last instead of 3 and outs, our defense wouldn't be so bad getting a breather here and there.
Here's a thought. Maybe if the Texans actually had a competent QB to make drives last instead of 3 and outs, our defense wouldn't be so bad getting a breather here and there.
bhsman
Rookie
Wouldn't we be in a worse position if we have to pay JJ, a former number one overall QB, and still haven't fixed the pass rush?
EDIT: That isn't to say we shouldn't take a QB first or not, just that worrying about that kind of thing shouldn't be a consideration at this point.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
Well, if the QB deserves the big contract I'd say the Texans hit the jackpot. Paying two DE big money just doesn't sound like a good strategy for building a team. I think it's a stretch to say the pass rush wouldn't be fixed if Houston didn't draft Clowney. Kubiak and Wade both run out dated systems. The right coaching change could fix a lot of problems, including the pass rush. Who knows what a positive team morale could do since Kubiak and Schaub killed it.
If Houston had an encouraging situation at QB, I could get on the idea of Clowney even though I question his drive to be great. But that's not the case. Houston has absolutely no answer at QB. If they chase after a FA QB looking for his next pay day, it could blow up in their face putting them back even further. I am in no way comfortable with putting a band-aid over the QB problem. Draft the best one since you will probably never sniff a situation to draft the best one for years.
Yeah, the Texans tried that before and it set them back for years. There may not be a better answer in this draft than there was then.
You've gotta pay regardless.
Somehow teams like the 49ers/Lions /Bears/Packers/Bengals/Ravens/Vikings back in the day seem to be able to keep their talented DLs together and still pay top notch $$$$ to their QB's.
This is part of the problem Rick has, not being able to effectively manage the cap.
If you want to look for excuses to draft Bridgewater over Clowney/Barr etc... you're going to have to look harder than this.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
Freak situation. Carr came into a fresh expansion team made up of JAGs with horrible coaching. Has there ever been a badder situation for a #1 QB? Any pick can be a bust. If you're too scared to take the best scouted QB of the draft, don't expect much. Thankfully, the new CBA prevents teams being absolutely ruined if the first pick doesn't work out.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
It is a very good debate. I'll give you that. Unless your QB magically rises to the occasion like Flacco or Eli, I just don't think two great DE will get your far in the playoffs. A Tom Brady-like quick release will send you home. I think everyone here has seen that.
Agreed
But forcing a pick on a QB that isn't a franchise QB because you need one has proven to set this franchise back for over a decade. (Carr) There is no QB worthy of #1 in this draft. IMHO
I think if you think there is a can't miss franchise player there you have to take him. This year there is not a sure fire franchise qb there so you take a franchise player at another position.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
1. Why does it have to be "forcing" instead of common sense. We have no answer at QB and no money. We have a great DE already.
2. What the what? How do you know who's a franchise QB and who's not?
3. How is someone who's performance dropped and has injury history a lock at #1? Are we going by measurements now like Mario?
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
For sure. 1st rounder or quit.
So what are you saying? Hope Jay Cutler hit the market? Take a look at Josh Freeman? or hope that we can get Mettenberger later in the draft, perhaps trade up?
One option is to take Bridgewater first overall. I think we've discussed that one already. I want to know what option two is.
I look at it the same as the Ben Tate/Case Keenum situation. When the time comes & we have to make that decision, we make it then, not now. Arian Foster's deal would have hurt, had Tate proved to be too valuable. But if it made sense to endure the pain for a year or two, then trade Arian... then that's what we do.
Now we're in a situation where it doesn't make sense to keep either Schaub or pay Keenum.
We can have Clowney & Watt on the cheap for the next two years. Pay Watt if his play continues to warrant it & we still got Clowney on the cheap for two more years.
None of us know what our situation with Watt will be 2 years from now. Banking on him being the 20 sack per year franchise player we want him to be is like waiting for Boscelli to suit up, Tate to stay healthy, Schaub to become clutch, or Sharpton/McCain to blossom. & those decisions are a big part of what's holding us back as an organization.
I'm with you there. However, I want to know what our alternatives are..... how do we address the QB position if we decide to go Clowney with the first pick. Can we find a competent QB in the second? Do we trade back in the first? Do we get one in FA, or through trade?
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I'm still hoping for a trade back, then a trade up for Boyd
For this thread, we're saying the Texans take Clowney with the first overall.
That being the case, what should the next move be?
Trade back into the first for Boyd?
We'll find an RT between Ryan Harris (2 years after surgery), Newton (3rd times a charm), Brennan Williams (finally healthy, fingers crossed)? LG from Ben Jones, or the Q.
If we go to a 3-4, I think Clowney would be an OLB. If we go to the 4-3, with Reed & Mercilus providing depth..... That would be a heck of a rotation.
We'll have to look at young solid safeties in FA.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
If the Texan front office doesn't avail itself of this rare opportunity to draft a top QB, they continue to be crazy. Why not Derek Carr? Don't condemn him because of his brother.
Jeffcoat, not Clowney, is the top DE, and UT grads seem to do well in the NFL. But QB must be the top priority, followed by OL.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Derek Carr shouldn't be scratched out of hand but he should have to undergo an interrogation which would make the CIA weenies at Gitmo blush before the Texans think about taking him.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
I have an idea how that'll shake out.
The fact that Derek already has a wife and a child is an indicator IMO that he has the same values as his brother. Good for every guy in the world, bad for a starting QB for an NFL franchise.
1.Because if you pick a QB not worthy of #1 that by definition is forcing a pick.
2. I dont know for sure, nobody does, I've watched 5-7 of TB's games over the last 2 yrs icluding the Floria bowl game and in MY opinion TB will be an Andy Dalton type QB in the NFL. Who do YOU think TB will resemble as a pro?
3. Because Clowney has played at a top level competition, drawing double teams since coming out as a much hearlded freshman. MW played on a DL at NCST with 3 1st rd draft picks. Clowney? MW was known for taking plays off his entire career.
Clowney never took plays off his 1st two yrs in college. Only after almost being garunteed to be a top 5 pick this yr before the season started and seeing his teamate (Lattimore) fall from a 1st rd pick to a 6th rd pick, Clowney decided to protect himself from injury this yr. That's human nature and I dont hold this against Clowney.
Actually Clowney and MW are nothing alike at comparable points in their career. But even if they were, I wouldn't consider picking another MW at 1-1 in this draft to be a bad pick. (But that's just me and I know that wont be a popular opinion among most posters.) Clowney has the ability to be much better than MW will ever be and has done this with bone spurs on his feet.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Ok. Although I think we're a franchise QB short of being contenders, I'll play by your rules. The first thing I would do after selecting Clowney 1st overall is try to trade back into the first round (mid teens) for Blake Bortles. If he's not available there then I would try to trade into the twenties for either Derek Carr or Zach Mettenberger.
^^^^
This
Only if they decide not to draft a QB in 2015.
Personally, I would hope that Cutler is a FA and the Texans sign him to a 3yr deal and trade up in the 2015 draft for Winston/Petty. That would give the rookies a couple of yrs to sit on the bench and learn, while Cutler/Clowney would give the Texans a better chance to win a SB than Schaub ever did. Didn't Cutler lead the Bears to a NFC Championship game 3-4 yrs ago? People severely underrate Cutler because they dont like his supposed attitude. When all Cutler does is call out slugs like Webb and answer reporters questions like, would you rather have a taller WR than Hester honestly?
bah007
Hall of Fame
LOL Cutler? Seriously? The guy who has played all 16 games 3 times in 8 seasons? The guy who threw 18 INTs in his best NFL season? His career average for a season is 19 TDs-14 INTs...
At least he's a known commodity I guess. He's Romo without the toughness. But he does have a strong arm so there's that.
We're gonna go all in (it wouldn't be cheap) with a guy who's had eight years to prove his worth and hasn't, but it's not worth the risk if we do our homework and decide that we've found a QB in the first round that we like?
At least he's a known commodity I guess. He's Romo without the toughness. But he does have a strong arm so there's that.
We're gonna go all in (it wouldn't be cheap) with a guy who's had eight years to prove his worth and hasn't, but it's not worth the risk if we do our homework and decide that we've found a QB in the first round that we like?
Texan4Ever
All Pro
Breaking it down by key positions I'll list some players I would consider pursuing (in no particular order):
Quarterback
1.) Josh McCown (Bears) - Only if the price is right I would consider bringing him in. Yes he had a plethora of weapons but so do we. If anything it will allow Bridgewater or whomever else we take to study the playbook and get accustomed to the NFL before taking over (a la Aaron Rogers).
Offensive Line
1.) Alex Mack (Browns) - I doubt they let him walk but if we change offensive schemes and we want to avoid having a center get B^tch#d slapped by a nose tackle then I want Mack.
2.) Jared Veldheer (Raiders) - Not the cream of the crop but better than what we have at RT and worth a look.
Linebackers
1.) Brandon Spikes (Patriots) - Serviceable ILB and would give us much needed depth.
2.) Karlos Dansby (Cardinals) - Getting up there in age but has played very well for the Cards and can provide leadership.
Cornerbacks
1.) Breant Grimes (Phins') - Solid CB who can hold his own against the best.
2.) Chris Harris (Broncos) - Solid CB...not to be confused with the other Chris Harris.
3.) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Broncos) - Has been banged up but he's probably the best out of the CBs scheduled to hit FA.
Safeties
1.) TJ Ward (Browns) - Top 5 Safety IMO.
2.) Jarius Byrd (Bills) - Had a ridiculous Rookie season and is still a force to be reckoned with.
Basically I'd like to see us get aggressive in FA and pickup the best that money can get. We also need to focus on key positions of need in the draft and continue to add more depth.
If we take Clowney (and assuming we switch to a 4-3 or run a hybrid defense). I would like to see if we can get Ra'Shede Hageman if he slips out of the 1st round. He fits a 4-3 and a 3-4 and would give us some flexibility at the DL position.
Trevor Reilly is a solid option at OLB. Played in a weaker conference but Utah's been known to produce solid 3-4 OLB. What really excites me about him is his coverage skills versus TEs which is something we need.
For the RT position I like James Hurst. Played well against Clowney and although he plays the LT spot he could switch to cover the RT spot for us.
I'm still getting used to coming back to reality from my post-surgery (wisdom teeth) so I'll leave it at this.
Quarterback
1.) Josh McCown (Bears) - Only if the price is right I would consider bringing him in. Yes he had a plethora of weapons but so do we. If anything it will allow Bridgewater or whomever else we take to study the playbook and get accustomed to the NFL before taking over (a la Aaron Rogers).
Offensive Line
1.) Alex Mack (Browns) - I doubt they let him walk but if we change offensive schemes and we want to avoid having a center get B^tch#d slapped by a nose tackle then I want Mack.
2.) Jared Veldheer (Raiders) - Not the cream of the crop but better than what we have at RT and worth a look.
Linebackers
1.) Brandon Spikes (Patriots) - Serviceable ILB and would give us much needed depth.
2.) Karlos Dansby (Cardinals) - Getting up there in age but has played very well for the Cards and can provide leadership.
Cornerbacks
1.) Breant Grimes (Phins') - Solid CB who can hold his own against the best.
2.) Chris Harris (Broncos) - Solid CB...not to be confused with the other Chris Harris.
3.) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Broncos) - Has been banged up but he's probably the best out of the CBs scheduled to hit FA.
Safeties
1.) TJ Ward (Browns) - Top 5 Safety IMO.
2.) Jarius Byrd (Bills) - Had a ridiculous Rookie season and is still a force to be reckoned with.
Basically I'd like to see us get aggressive in FA and pickup the best that money can get. We also need to focus on key positions of need in the draft and continue to add more depth.
If we take Clowney (and assuming we switch to a 4-3 or run a hybrid defense). I would like to see if we can get Ra'Shede Hageman if he slips out of the 1st round. He fits a 4-3 and a 3-4 and would give us some flexibility at the DL position.
Trevor Reilly is a solid option at OLB. Played in a weaker conference but Utah's been known to produce solid 3-4 OLB. What really excites me about him is his coverage skills versus TEs which is something we need.
For the RT position I like James Hurst. Played well against Clowney and although he plays the LT spot he could switch to cover the RT spot for us.
I'm still getting used to coming back to reality from my post-surgery (wisdom teeth) so I'll leave it at this.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
if we go Clownley rd 1 then rd 2 I would go......
yeah I would deff go QB no question
OT I just think don't we got two young guys waiting in the wing Quesnberry and that other guy that's why I think MAybe RT isn't much has a need when compared to Guard CUz Wade smith will be gone this off season and hes a starter unless yall really like Ben jones and guard or a depth player I don't know about Cuz Brooks is on the RG
yeah I would deff go QB no question
OT I just think don't we got two young guys waiting in the wing Quesnberry and that other guy that's why I think MAybe RT isn't much has a need when compared to Guard CUz Wade smith will be gone this off season and hes a starter unless yall really like Ben jones and guard or a depth player I don't know about Cuz Brooks is on the RG
Using Cutler as a high end placeholder until the young QB's are ready in 2-3 yrs ala Rodgers is a bad idea?
Rushing a rookie QB, be it your dream guy Bridgewater, my guy Mettenberger or Manziel/Bortles seems like a dumb idea. (Carr)
BTW, As I've said, I dont like any of the QB's in this draft. But the ones most likely to succeed are, Mettenberger/Bortles/Bridgewater in that order.
Tell me the difference between Bridgewater and Manziel minus the 2 inches of height. Both are mobile with avg arms. Both improvise alot?
EVOLVIST
Kid A
1.) Clowney
2.) Kirk Cousins - Trade our 2nd rnd pick (33) for Cousins. The Nick Foles ship has sailed, but I've been saying that Foles & Cousins are practically the same guy. He needs to get the hell out of the Shanahan/Kubiak offense to thrive, even though he's still doing an adequate job. The Texans join the golden QB class of 2012 (at last), but if by some chance Cousins fails, at least you've put a small investment in a somewhat proven commodity, as opposed to a straight up rookie. It might take an extra pick somewhere along the line to get him, as long as the pick isn't too steep.
Otherwise...You got to take your shot for Bortles, Carr or Boyd. I'm thinking from Bridgewater on down there's equal value across the board...if you want to play craps, that is.
Besides, if we really fail with Cousins we'll be at the top of the heap to draft a franchise guy in 2015. Win/win...and you'll only be picking up Cousin's 4th round tab.
2.) Kirk Cousins - Trade our 2nd rnd pick (33) for Cousins. The Nick Foles ship has sailed, but I've been saying that Foles & Cousins are practically the same guy. He needs to get the hell out of the Shanahan/Kubiak offense to thrive, even though he's still doing an adequate job. The Texans join the golden QB class of 2012 (at last), but if by some chance Cousins fails, at least you've put a small investment in a somewhat proven commodity, as opposed to a straight up rookie. It might take an extra pick somewhere along the line to get him, as long as the pick isn't too steep.
Otherwise...You got to take your shot for Bortles, Carr or Boyd. I'm thinking from Bridgewater on down there's equal value across the board...if you want to play craps, that is.
Besides, if we really fail with Cousins we'll be at the top of the heap to draft a franchise guy in 2015. Win/win...and you'll only be picking up Cousin's 4th round tab.