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CJ Stroud year 2

TheRealJoker said:
He went to a SB as a HC and won it as an OC. Architect of the “Greatest Show on Turf”. His record as an HC is 53-32 including four playoff appearances.

His opinion is more credible than most and his resume speaks for itself…
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I always looked at it like his teams underachieved. Given what Vermeil left him.
 
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steelbtexan said:
So that would be zero with a SB ready team given to him. But hey, you're I just want to be entertained guy and Martz certainly was entertaining.
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So you think Vermeil was the architect of the 'greatest show on turf' offense?
 
steelbtexan said:
How many championships did Martz win as a HC?
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For convenience sake here is a partial list of losers (players & coaches) who never won a SB. I'm just glad that only 3 of the players played for a Houston team.

Players:

Barry Sanders, RB
Earl Campbell, RB
Eric Dickerson, RB
Thurman Thomas, RB
LaDainian Tomlinson, RB

Dan Fouts, QB
Sonny Jurgensen, QB
Jim Kelly, QB
Dan Marino, QB
Fran Tarkenton, QB

Antonio Gates, TE
Tony Gonzalez, TE
Ozzie Newsome, TE

Randy Moss, WR
Cris Carter, WR
Andre Johnson, WR
Larry Fitzgerald, WR

John Hannah, OG
Bruce Matthews, OG/OC/OT
Anthony Munoz, OT

Merlin Olsen, DT
Bruce Smith, DE
J.J. Watt, DE

Junior Seau, LB
Derrick Thomas, LB

Coaches:

Bud Grant
Chuck Knox
Dan Reeves
Don Coryell
George Allen
John Fox
Marty Schottenheimer
Marv Levy
Mike Martz
 
mws said:
For convenience sake here is a partial list of losers (players & coaches) who never won a SB. I'm just glad that only 3 of the players played for a Houston team.

Players:

Barry Sanders, RB
Earl Campbell, RB
Eric Dickerson, RB
Thurman Thomas, RB
LaDainian Tomlinson, RB

Dan Fouts, QB
Sonny Jurgensen, QB
Jim Kelly, QB
Dan Marino, QB
Fran Tarkenton, QB

Antonio Gates, TE
Tony Gonzalez, TE
Ozzie Newsome, TE

Randy Moss, WR
Cris Carter, WR
Andre Johnson, WR
Larry Fitzgerald, WR

John Hannah, OG
Bruce Matthews, OG/OC/OT
Anthony Munoz, OT

Merlin Olsen, DT
Bruce Smith, DE
J.J. Watt, DE

Junior Seau, LB
Derrick Thomas, LB

Coaches:

Bud Grant
Chuck Knox
Dan Reeves
Don Coryell
George Allen
John Fox
Marty Schottenheimer
Marv Levy
Mike Martz
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What's your point?

Mine is, he was gifted a SB winning roster. How many of the other HC's you listed were gifted a SB worthy roster and why did you add players to the list? I dont think players were in this discussion, but thanks for the time to make that list.
 
steelbtexan said:
What's your point?

Mine is, he was gifted a SB winning roster. How many of the other HC's you listed were gifted a SB worthy roster and why did you add players to the list? I dont think players were in this discussion, but thanks for the time to make that list.
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Dick Vermeil coached the Rams for three seasons.

1997 - 5-11 which was worse than the 6-10 team that got Brooks fired in 1996
1998 - 4-12 which was even worse
1999 - 13-3 which had Warner starting only because Trent Green got hurt, Holt was a rookie and they had just traded for Faulk

He caught lightning in a bottle that one season and promptly retired after crying all over national television.

He didn't build that team. That famous offensive output for that '99 season was orchestrated by Martz, not Vermeil, so Martz literally inherited a team that he built.
 
steelbtexan said:
Would you agree that his teams underachieved?
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I agree that his take doesn’t fit your narrative. So you’ll try to tear down his reputation as a great offensive mind because he didn’t agree with you one time.

He made the Super Bowl as a HC. He won a Super Bowl as an OC. That’s a successful run as an NFL coach.

Or is it only Belichick and Reid that get to have opinions on players (as long as they agree with you of course) without you tearing down their reputation as a coach?
 
TheRealJoker said:
I agree that his take doesn’t fit your narrative. So you’ll try to tear down his reputation as a great offensive mind because he didn’t agree with you one time.

He made the Super Bowl as a HC. He won a Super Bowl as an OC. That’s a successful run as an NFL coach.

Or is it only Belichick and Reid that get to have opinions on players (as long as they agree with you of course) without you tearing down their reputation as a coach?
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I expected him to build on the great teams Vermeil left for him. It didn't happen. Martz is a great offensive mind, but not a leader of men. Speaking of Martz and QB's, I can see Stroud and Bulger having very similar type careers. Martz picked the wrong QB to hang with, he should've kept Warner.
 
Porky said:
Can someone clue me in? Coaches that didn't win a SB can't have a valid opinion on rookie QB's entering the league? Is that what the argument is? I'm sort of lost.
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His opinion is valid, I just happen to think he's not a great judge of talent. See: Bulger> Warner.
 
sandman said:
Dick Vermeil coached the Rams for three seasons.

1997 - 5-11 which was worse than the 6-10 team that got Brooks fired in 1996
1998 - 4-12 which was even worse
1999 - 13-3 which had Warner starting only because Trent Green got hurt, Holt was a rookie and they had just traded for Faulk

He caught lightning in a bottle that one season and promptly retired after crying all over national television.

He didn't build that team. That famous offensive output for that '99 season was orchestrated by Martz, not Vermeil, so Martz literally inherited a team that he built.
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Apparently that lightning in a bottle lasted more than 1 season since they made the SB the next yr and the playoffs several yrs after that with Vermeil's guys.

I didn't know Martz as an assistant HC/OC had the kind of pull to override the GM/HC decisions on trading for Faulk/drafting Holt/Hakim. Did he also order the GM/HC to sign Green in FA? Man this guy was good, Ryans needs to hire him on as Asst HC/GM tomorrow.
 
steelbtexan said:
Apparently that lightning in a bottle lasted more than 1 season since they made the SB the next yr and the playoffs several yrs after that with Vermeil's guys.

I didn't know Martz as an assistant HC/OC had the kind of pull to override the GM/HC decisions on trading for Faulk/drafting Holt/Hakim. Did he also order the GM/HC to sign Green in FA? Man this guy was good, Ryans needs to hire him on as Asst HC/GM tomorrow.
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Dick Vermeil record as HC of the Rams without Martz as OC: 9-27

Dick Vermeil record as HC of the Rams with Martz as OC: 16-3 and a Super Bowl win

Vermeil is on record stating that they don't go to the SB without Martz having implemented his offense and developed Warner into an MVP.

But you keep disparaging what the man did in the NFL because he likes Stroud.

As far as keeping it on Stroud, I think where Martz opinion might be bit skewed is because of that famous offense that he implemented. It is system heavy quick read on-script type of stuff which is where Stroud seems to have had a lot of his success in college. If the Slowick offense is going to implement some of that same philosophy, I tend to agree.

Aikman was a Turner system guy and it got him three SB's and a yellow jacket. I'm OK with Stroud being like that.
 
sandman said:
Dick Vermeil record as HC of the Rams without Martz as OC: 9-27

Dick Vermeil record as HC of the Rams with Martz as OC: 16-3 and a Super Bowl win

Vermeil is on record stating that they don't go to the SB without Martz having implemented his offense and developed Warner into an MVP.

But you keep disparaging what the man did in the NFL because he likes Stroud.

As far as keeping it on Stroud, I think where Martz opinion might be bit skewed is because of that famous offense that he implemented. It is system heavy quick read on-script type of stuff which is where Stroud seems to have had a lot of his success in college. If the Slowick offense is going to implement some of that same philosophy, I tend to agree.

Aikman was a Turner system guy and it got him three SB's and a yellow jacket. I'm OK with Stroud being like that.
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. Martz system is the Air Coryell system, as was Turner's. Guess whose offense has a lot of the Air Coryell principles, that would be a BOB offense and yes I know about the EP stuff. But it's a lot closer than the wco.
 
steelbtexan said:
. Martz system is the Air Coryell system, as was Turner's. Guess whose offense has a lot of the Air Coryell principles, that would be a BOB offense and yes I know about the EP stuff. But it's a lot closer than the wco.
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I think you are smart enough to understand the point I was making.

Like most everyone else, I see a successful HC/OC who is credited with one of the greatest offenses the league has seen giving Stroud some props. It goes no more towards Stroud succeeding than being drafted at #2. But I would rather guys that are known for being offensive geniuses and developed HoF QB's say good things than bad things. It's actually encouraging about his potential Day 1 success. Which I know we all want. Right?
 
sandman said:
Despite him not liking Stroud as a person, and is suspect about his football abilities, I don't think he wants him to fail. I think he expects him to fail so would rather it be done sooner than later in order to move on to the next guy. But I don't think he wants him to fail just to be able to say he was right. That's Texian.
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Damn that’s deep ****.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1660986464635691010

Draft pundits poked holes in the No. 2 overall pick's stellar Ohio State résumé in the spring, largely based on reports he tested poorly on the S2 Cognition Test, which measures how quickly and accurately athletes process information. But several people who coached and played with Stroud raved about his football IQ in interviews with FOX Sports.

Their words provide insight into what the Texans could be getting in Stroud, their potential franchise quarterback, something Houston hasn't had since Deshaun Watson.

"I'm viewing this opportunity like it's one of a kind, because it is," Stroud told reporters last month. "I know the city of Houston hasn't seen a franchise quarterback in a long time and that's something I hope I become."



At Ohio State, star receiver Jaxon Smith-Njigba would often sit next to Stroud in team meetings and watch the QB spit back massive loads of information with ease. If a player didn't know his job or responsibility on a particular play, Stroud could tell him his assignment "every single time," Smith-Njigba said.

"If [Stroud] doesn't know, then the coach didn't communicate it well and didn't tell us because that's the only way [he wouldn't know]," the Seattle Seahawks rookie first-round pick told FOX Sports. "You may think he's going to forget, but he never forgets — and that's with everything. That's with plays. That's with life. That's when somebody said something three years ago."

At Rancho Cucamonga, where Stroud didn't become a full-time starter until his junior year, it was normal for him to adjust playcalls.

If the Cougars had a three-by-three protection set and the defense had four guys to a side, he'd recognize it pre-snap, telling the running back to pick up the extra defender. If there was a run play to the overloaded side, he'd audible to the other. He didn't just see openings, he knew what plays would best take advantage of them.

Between drives, he focused on the iPad, studying the defense's constant adjustments and suggesting plays to his coach. His plays worked most of the time.

"By his senior year, his whole knowledge of football — from the protections to the coverages to what plays we have that would fit the openings that we see on the field — it was just unmatched by any QB I've ever coached before," Verti said. "His spatial awareness was off the charts."
Stroud's former coaches point to basketball, his first love, helping his game as a quarterback. He played two years in high school, mainly as a small and power forward in Rancho Cucamonga's small-ball lineup. He was a good shooter. He handled the rock. He loved having the ball in his hands. His basketball coach, Bill Burke, believes Stroud could have played Division I had he stuck with hoops.

"One of our better players, he crossed him over and [the player] fell down," recalled Burke. "He said, ‘That's the only reason you put me on the team.' I said, ‘No, you're just a freak of an athlete.'"

As a junior, Stroud hit a fadeaway, buzzer-beating, game-winning three-pointer in a CIF state playoff game against Camarillo, which featured future UCLA star and projected 2023 NBA Draft pick Jaime Jaquez Jr.

"He thought he was KD [Kevin Durant] in high school," laughed Tony Wilson, an offensive assistant for the Rancho Cucamonga football team.

The fastbreaks and cutting in basketball, Stroud's high school football coaches said, helped him see passing windows as a quarterback. But there was a time when Stroud, known as an elite pocket passer, just wanted to run. His father, Coleridge, encouraged it. But Tojo Munford, Stroud's youth coach, taught him to stay in the pocket and hammered it into him with drills. For years, he told Stroud to throw to where the receivers were going, not where they were. It formed the foundation of the anticipatory throws for which he's lauded.

Munford saw the ease with which Stroud could throw the ball, even at age 7, when the coach first met him.

"I've been lucky to have about six or seven kids that have been in the NFL, but you don't know [that] when they're 8," Munford told FOX Sports. "But I said, ‘He might make millions of dollars one day throwing that ball.'"

Stroud has always been the type to lead by example. According to former coaches, he wouldn't hesitate to call out teammates, even a star receiver, if they showed up late to practices or workouts. He held them to the same standard he held himself.

After losing in a playoff game in basketball, he apologized to the coaches for how he played.

In football, Stroud got hurt the first game of his junior season. The team fell to 0-4 without him. But he became a player-coach, encouraging teammates to watch film and stick together. Rancho Cucamonga rallied to win seven straight games.

In passing drills at Rancho Cucamonga football practices, Stroud made sure to throw to every receiver, not just the starters.

"In games, it felt like he'd make sure certain people got touchdowns," Verti said. "Like, ‘Oh, they haven't got one yet? We're up by three or four touchdowns. Let's get this guy the ball and let's score a touchdown.'"

As Stroud arrives in Houston, expectations are sky-high. He says he doesn't believe in pressure. He doesn't believe there are limits to how good he can be. And he knows he can lead. He did so at one of college football's biggest powers.

"That's something I think I bring to the table very well, coming from a place like Ohio State where [as the] quarterback … you're right under LeBron," Stroud joked at his introductory press conference. "You're the leader of the whole state."

After succeeding in the home state of King James, Stroud oozes confidence.

"When there's any doubt from anyone else, it's going to sharpen his tools," Wilson said. "He's going to be in the lab, on the field, in the film room, in the weight room, in the playbook even harder. Not only for his team, but for himself to make sure he's doing his part for his team.

"He knows that if he does his part," Wilson added, "that's going to close out all the doubters by itself."
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My favorite part of what zshawn10 posted

Touchdown.

"He likes the aspect of outsmarting the opponent, how football allows you to outsmart people," Verti, who later became Stroud's head coach, told FOX Sports. "He likes that part of football and how to game plan people and how it's not just the physical enjoyment of it, but being able to use your mind and game plan the whole chess match portion of it."


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pirbroke said:
Encouraging to read that, you know I can’t rule out if he bombed the S2 on purpose. Why I’m not sure, just thinking out loud.


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It could be simply that he's dumb and struggles to think on his feet under pressure, whether that's a pass rush or a test.
 
steelbtexan said:
It could be simply that he's dumb and struggles to think on his feet under pressure, whether that's a pass rush or a test.
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Yea maybe, I’m in the middle now on what to believe and the other half may be complete bull crap, or very true, lol. Guess we just gotta wait for the season to start.


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pirbroke said:
Yea maybe, I’m in the middle now on what to believe and the other half may be complete bull crap, or very true, lol. Guess we just gotta wait for the season to start.


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Yep, nobody this time of yr is going to come out and say anything bad about the new Texans QB. I'm just glad I didn't hedge my bets and renewed my season tickets again. This decision had to be made before the draft and it was a wise decision. I do make wise decisions occasionally. LOL
 
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