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Chronicle: The Mallett/Hoyer Competition

WolverineFan said:
If Hoyer indeed wins the job then, instead of criticizing Bill O'Brien, you guys should be questioning Ryan Mallett. He would then be a 27-year old, 5-year NFL vet with 2 career starts who has failed to beat out both Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brian Hoyer in QB competitions.

However, it seems to me that you guys are already preparing the "O'Brien choose Hoyer" stance instead of even entertaining the thought that Mallett couldn't beat him out in competition.
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Are you really penalizing Mallett for not overtaking Tom Brady for the vast majority of those 5 seaons?
 
Mollywhopper said:
Are you really penalizing Mallett for not overtaking Tom Brady for the vast majority of those 5 seaons?
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No, I'm penalizing him for not distancing himself from Fitz/Hoyer who are both bottom of the barrel starters / game managers. If you're 27 years old and you aren't noticeably better than either of those guys then there is a problem.
 
sandman said:
I'm trying to understand how he didn't beat out Fitz, considering you know, Fitz was benched for Mallett.
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How Mallett didn't beat out Fitz? I always assumed it was because he got in later and was playing catch up.

Seeing the potential for OB to favor another "safer" veteran qb over Mallett this year, if these stories are true, may end up re-writing that view altogether.
 
WolverineFan said:
No, I'm penalizing him for not distancing himself from Fitz/Hoyer who are both bottom of the barrel starters / game managers. If you're 27 years old and you aren't noticeably better than either of those guys then there is a problem.
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Or your HC prefers a safer game manager. Though I'd like to not believe that.
 
WolverineFan said:
No, I'm penalizing him for not distancing himself from Fitz/Hoyer who are both bottom of the barrel starters / game managers. If you're 27 years old and you aren't noticeably better than either of those guys then there is a problem.
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Maybe there is a problem...with someone else.
 
WolverineFan said:
If Hoyer indeed wins the job then, instead of criticizing Bill O'Brien, you guys should be questioning Ryan Mallett. He would then be a 27-year old, 5-year NFL vet with 2 career starts who has failed to beat out both Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brian Hoyer in QB competitions.

However, it seems to me that you guys are already preparing the "O'Brien choose Hoyer" stance instead of even entertaining the thought that Mallett couldn't beat him out in competition.
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If Hoyer wins the job then that's fine. I'll get behind Hoyer like I got behind Fitz (with a funny look on my face admittedly but still....). I will assume then that Mallet couldn't make a good enough case for himself over Hoyer to win the job and see what happens.

This is actually becoming fairly routine for me at this point.

Wheels come off Schaub - Keenum gets an opportunity - Keenum can't really lock it down and seize the job.
Keenum gets kicked to the curb - Fitzpatrick gets an opportunity - Fitzpatrick can't not be Fitzpatrick so he loses the job.
Fitzpatrick gets shown to the bench - Mallet gets an opportunity - After one good game Mallet shits the bed and gets hurt.
Mallet is done for the season - Fitzpatrick gets another opportunity - After improving (but not all that much really) Fitz gets hurt.
Fitz is done for the season - Savage gets an opportunity - Savage is too wet behind the ears and almost mercifully gets hurt.
Savage is done for the season - Keenum comes back and gets another opportunity - Keenum finally wins but is still Keenum.
Keenum not re-signed - Mallet & Savage come back healthy and who wouldn't want to add Brian Hoyer to that potent mix?

Seriously now, I've liked some of those guys a lot (still have hope for Savage and for Mallet) but the carousel of questionable QB's at some point will need to end. Mallet may not be the guy. That's fine. Savage might not be ready. Why not? Guys from his draft and the one after it are taking the field now. If Savage isn't ready this year then what's up with that? If Hoyer is our starter this season and continues to be Brian Hoyer then I'd like to know if OB even has a plan where QB is concerned.

Brian Hoyer isn't a blank slate. He's a known commodity. After 2014 Ryan Mallet should be enough of a known commodity (to OB at least) that if OB thinks Hoyer is preferable then WTF are either one of them doing on the team?

Just stuff I'm thinking. I really want to see them playing (even preseason) to see what this all looks like.
 
The indignant "I haven't chosen a starter yet" response to the fans' reaction to Hoyer possibly already being chosen over Mallet sure plays into Hard Knocks...........:chef:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The indignant "I haven't chosen a starter yet" response to the fans' reaction to Hoyer possibly already being chosen over Mallet sure plays into Hard Knocks...........:chef:
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Once HK starts up, we will probably see and hear some of the QB conversations between the coaches. Obviously we're at the mercy of how all this will get edited and what they're allowed to film in the first place, but we should get an idea of what they think of both of these guys.
 
Hervoyel said:
Yeah, well the fans thought Mallet was a lock and we're pissed that OB is behind Hoyer so it should all even out right?

I question how in-the-know McClain and Smith are on this if this is what they're saying.

If they are on to something here then I'm confused by OB. He signed Fitz, then went out and got Mallet last year, played Mallet once where he looked good, then played him a second time injured, wasn't happy with something, and now he's chasing Brian-f'ing-Hoyer and doesn't understand why the public isn't getting behind him and organizing a parade.

I have no idea what that man expects if he's really unhappy that the public likes the guy he brought here and the guy who looked most competent in this offense to date here in Houston over the scrub he brought in from Cleveland.
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I think there has always been evidence that O'Brien hasn't been as high on Mallet as the fans have been. Te recap some earlier thoughts:

1) O'Brien took so long to trade for him. Some say that was O'Brien driving a hard bargain. Others might see it as Mallet finally being such a good deal O'Brien had to give him a shot.

2) Mallet couldn't unseat Fitz as the starter. Some say that was because Mallet had to learn the system - some of these same people also thought Mallet was a great pickup because he already knew the system. Others might have been worried that Mallet wasn't good enough to unseat Fitz.

3) O'Brien went out and got Hoyer. Some say that was injury insurance for Mallet. Others might see that as an indication O'Brien wasn't fully confident in Mallet, healthy or not.

I figured this tale of two quarterbacks would be interesting.
 
thunderkyss said:
Remember how relieved we were when we traded those two 2s for Schaub?



Ahh... the good old days.
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At least I knew where the coach wanted to go. I have a hard time knowing what OB wants to do in the qb department.
 
Does the Arian Foster injury help Mallet get the job?

Hoyer has been criticized for arm strength, and if you can't spread the field with the QB, and then that would hurt an already damaged running game, wouldn't that spell disaster for the offense? Wouldn't the defense just crowd the box if they don't respect the running game or the threat of the deep pass?

But if you had a QB with arm strength that could spread the field would that in turn help the running game and offense?
 
infantrycak said:
Maybe there is a problem...with someone else.
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It's certainly possible. Although I consider the likelihood that Mallett isn't that good much more probable than O'Brien having an affinity for game managing QB's and intentionally sabotaging any QB competition.
 
WolverineFan said:
It's certainly possible. Although I consider the likelihood that Mallett isn't that good much more probable than O'Brien having an affinity for game managing QB's and intentionally sabotaging any QB competition.
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Get serious. No coach making a mistake in a case like this is thinking in terms of pejoratives or with ill intent. But they have some personal misweighting in one or more factors in the evaluation which favors a particular person or type of person. Hoyer calls him sir v. Mallett calling him Bill. Hoyer sits in the front row of meetings v. Mallett sitting in the back of class. Wtfever. People have biases which lead them to make mistakes with perfectly good intentions and HCs are people too.
 
infantrycak said:
Get serious. No coach making a mistake in a case like this is thinking in terms of pejoratives or with ill intent. But they have some personal misweighting in one or more factors in the evaluation which favors a particular person or type of person. Hoyer calls him sir v. Mallett calling him Bill. Hoyer sits in the front row of meetings v. Mallett sitting in the back of class. Wtfever. People have biases which lead them to make mistakes with perfectly good intentions and HCs are people too.
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While I agree, I tend to think BoB has enough checks and balances in place that if Mallett were clearly the better player BoB would check his ego and start Mallett. I could be wrong, but I just can't see a guy favoring someone like Hoyer if Mallett is showing the better "stuff"
 
amazing80 said:
While I agree, I tend to think BoB has enough checks and balances in place that if Mallett were clearly the better player BoB would check his ego and start Mallett. I could be wrong, but I just can't see a guy favoring someone like Hoyer if Mallett is showing the better "stuff"
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For perspective - the incident/decision my favorite HC (Tom Landry) is usually criticized over is f'king around in making a decision to start Roger Staubach. Bob Lilly (nice parallel to this story) had to go have a chat with him. Even the best make mistakes picking QBs.
 
amazing80 said:
While I agree, I tend to think BoB has enough checks and balances in place that if Mallett were clearly the better player BoB would check his ego and start Mallett. I could be wrong, but I just can't see a guy favoring someone like Hoyer if Mallett is showing the better "stuff"
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Herein lies the problem. None of the media eyes have indicated that Mallett IS clearly outshining Hoyer. Both have shown flashes of good and not-so-good according to the media folks. It's probably as simple as neither guy has shown himself to be clearly superior.
Not yet anyway.

And if I was a Mallett fanboy, that would worry the hell out of me. At 27 yrs old and having five years in basically the same system shouldn't this "upside" he's supposed to have be showing itself against the likes of Hoyer by now??
 
ObsiWan said:
Herein lies the problem. None of the media eyes have indicated that Mallett IS clearly outshining Hoyer. Both have shown flashes of good and not-so-good according to the media folks. It's probably as simple as neither guy has shown himself to be clearly superior.
Not yet anyway.

And if I was a Mallett fanboy, that would worry the hell out of me. At 27 yrs old and having five years in basically the same system shouldn't this "upside" he's supposed to have be showing itself against the likes of Hoyer by now??
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Even the mediocre players can look good in practice, but have a hard time adjusting when it matters. This was the case last year when Fitz was having a good training camp, but looked awful in most of the regular season games I saw.
 
infantrycak said:
And Mallett's upside did show itself against the likes of Hoyer: 23-7
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While I love this sound bite, it's not applicable.
Iverson was an established star.
Mallett is supposed to be battling for the starting job. So, in this case, practice isn't just 'practice'.

santo said:
Even the mediocre players can look good in practice, but have a hard time adjusting when it matters. This was the case last year when Fitz was having a good training camp, but looked awful in most of the regular season games I saw.
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Fitz was anointed the starter in June, BEFORE training camp. Mallett wasn't signed until preseason had already started.
Maybe if O'Brien had pulled the trigger on Mallett sooner last season instead of waiting until the Pats put him on the clearance rack...
 
ObsiWan said:
While I love this sound bite, it's not applicable.
Iverson was an established star.
Mallett is supposed to be battling for the starting job. So, in this case, practice isn't just 'practice'.
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They just had their 1st practice in pads. Yeah, it's just practice.

And our esteemed media observers seem to think this competition comes down to throwing a prettier ball.

Anyway, I think all the evidence points to OB having had some thing for Hoyer from before they hit the field together. So no I don't place a whole lot of significance in training camp throwing for "then he should have beat him out."

It's OK, I have total faith that OB has found a gem 3 other HCs (not including Belichick) have overlooked/misused/wrongfully thrown away, etc.

Actually what I think is this deal is Hoyer's and he's going to have to lose it during the season like Fitz.
 
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With Fosters injury I feel it is even now more Mallets job than before. Going to have to sling and slang the rock and Hoyer is terrible at anything beyond mid field.
 
I've been noodling on this all offseason, and I'm to the point to where I'm just going to sit back and trust OB to put the QB who gives the Texans the best chance to win on the field. As if I have a choice. LOL
No point in getting heartburn over this anymore. OB has a ton riding on his selection, so I'm sure he's taking it very seriously.
 
ObsiWan said:
While I love this sound bite, it's not applicable.
Iverson was an established star.
Mallett is supposed to be battling for the starting job. So, in this case, practice isn't just 'practice'.

Fitz was anointed the starter in June, BEFORE training camp. Mallett wasn't signed until preseason had already started.
Maybe if O'Brien had pulled the trigger on Mallett sooner last season instead of waiting until the Pats put him on the clearance rack...
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Is it Christmas? You know...If's and buts...candy and nuts...merry Christmas?
 
DocBar said:
I've been noodling on this all offseason, and I'm to the point to where I'm just going to sit back and trust OB to put the QB who gives the Texans the best chance to win on the field. As if I have a choice. LOL
No point in getting heartburn over this anymore. OB has a ton riding on his selection, so I'm sure he's taking it very seriously.
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I honestly don't know how anyone can trust OB after what he did last year. It was obvious that Fitz didn't even know how to run the offense & Mallett proved in one game he was lightyears ahead of Fitz.

So even if Hoyer struggles, I doubt we see Mallett barring injury. Even if he is better.
 
I disagree with Mallett being more important to O'Brien because of his arm strength since Foster's injury. I always thought O'Brien went with Fitzpatrick last year because he was a known conservative commodity that he thought his system would improve (like Kubiak always thought about his system.) Mallett didn't come in until Fitz crapped the bed and he had to make a change. Hoyer seems just like a Fitzpatrick and is the conservative choice, albeit it a below average game manager. Mallett is an unknown and the universal knock on Mallett since Hoyer got signed seems to be short and medium range passing accuracy. With the running game gone and being left to unknowns, I can't see him doing the same with the QB position. Just my opinion.
 
thunderkyss said:
I honestly don't know how anyone can trust OB after what he did last year. It was obvious that Fitz didn't even know how to run the offense & Mallett proved in one game he was lightyears ahead of Fitz.

So even if Hoyer struggles, I doubt we see Mallett barring injury. Even if he is better.
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Mallett got here right before the season started. How can you not take that into account?
 
nut said:
I disagree with Mallett being more important to O'Brien because of his arm strength since Foster's injury. I always thought O'Brien went with Fitzpatrick last year because he was a known conservative commodity that he thought his system would improve (like Kubiak always thought about his system.)
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Fitz was anything but conservative before last season. He was a gunslinger, like Favre & Romo without all the luck. I was actually hoping we'd fix his luck by having him throw to Andre, Hop, & Foster... but he turtled up & went broke-foot Schaub on us.
 
DocBar said:
Mallett got here right before the season started. How can you not take that into account?
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I do, but Fitzpatrick wasn't that good. At no time did I think he gave us an advantage. We never took off the training wheels.

You could have put Tim Tebow in Fitz place with the same results. Run, run, run... unless it's 3rd & long. No one needs 9 weeks on the bench to figure that out.

Then like I said, Mallett was lightyears ahead of Fitz... that didn't happen over the bye.
 
thunderkyss said:
Fitz was anything but conservative before last season. He was a gunslinger, like Favre & Romo without all the luck. I was actually hoping we'd fix his luck by having him throw to Andre, Hop, & Foster... but he turtled up & went broke-foot Schaub on us.
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The pass distances (like Schaub) were conservative. Fitz never went deep because he didn't have the arm, like Hoyer. He did have the gunslinger attitude throwing it into coverage though. They thought they could cure him of that.
 
nut said:
The pass distances (like Schaub) were conservative. Fitz never went deep because he didn't have the arm, like Hoyer. He did have the gunslinger attitude throwing it into coverage though. They thought they could cure him of that.
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Try to find some pre-Texans footage of Fitz... Google "video stevie Johnson Fitzpatrick " Fitz used to sling it all over the field. Deep ball included.
 
thunderkyss said:
I honestly don't know how anyone can trust OB after what he did last year. It was obvious that Fitz didn't even know how to run the offense & Mallett proved in one game he was lightyears ahead of Fitz.

So even if Hoyer struggles, I doubt we see Mallett barring injury. Even if he is better.
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This. So much this. There were times last year when I felt like Mallet could have walked onto the field the day after arriving here and been more efficient than Fitz yet week after week we rolled with Fitz. I didn't understand it. I still don't. I sure hate to see it play out again this season the same way with Hoyer.

Sometimes I wonder if Mallet hid the severity of that injury from the coaches and kept telling them that it was fine trying to hold on to the job in that Bengals game. I know it's pure speculation and I have nothing to base it on I still wonder about it. Even if I'm guessing correctly it's still OB's job to know when to pull a guy because he's struggling but in that game he stuck with Mallet and Blue when we'd probably have been better off going back to Fitz and Grimes (since Foster wasn't available that week).

I just keep trying to figure out why he went for the guy when he doesn't much seem to like him or trust him.

It's like he sticks with Fitz week after week getting minimal production, won't put the guy in he just traded for, and then once he makes that move he won't pull him when he can clearly see he's struggling. Likewise you got a guy averaging not much per carry but you give him 16 carries in that game while your other back gets 2 carries and gets 8 yards a pop on each one. Grimes went into that game probable with an ankle injury but hell, Blue was M.I.A. in that one. I can't remember, did Grimes aggravate his injury or something? Is that why he only got two carries?
 
Hervoyel said:
This. So much this. There were times last year when I felt like Mallet could have walked onto the field the day after arriving here and been more efficient than Fitz yet week after week we rolled with Fitz. I didn't understand it. I still don't. I sure hate to see it play out again this season the same way with Hoyer.
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It all just makes you go hmmmm.

Last year Mallett finely got his start and looked 10 times better than Fitz. So for the Mallett clearly isn't beating Hoyer out in practice crowd...last year was:

1) Mallett beating out Fitz in practice and not getting played, or

2) not beating out Fitz but when he got in a game played like superman compared to practice?
 
DX-TEX said:
With Fosters injury I feel it is even now more Mallets job than before. Going to have to sling and slang the rock and Hoyer is terrible at anything beyond mid field.
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With all that is known about Hoyer, if the team gets into trouble, he's not going to be the one to turn the game around. Sure, Mallet is an unknown, but his arm at least gives him a chance to make large ground gains in a hurry.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
With all that is known about Hoyer, if the team gets into trouble, he's not going to be the one to turn the game around. Sure, Mallet is an unknown, but his arm at least gives him a chance to make large ground gains in a hurry.
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Not to mention Hoyers poor TD:INT ratio isn't going to keep us out of trouble either. I am excited to see the team practice vs Redskins this week.
 
thetexanator said:
i gotta say im not so quick to call ob stupid. hes been around mallett too long. he knows what he has, and he no likey.
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I can buy that. Which means we're in the same place. For the record, I never called him stupid. I'm just saying I don't see how anyone can trust him to put the nest option on the field after witnessing what he did last season.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
With all that is known about Hoyer, if the team gets into trouble, he's not going to be the one to turn the game around. Sure, Mallet is an unknown, but his arm at least gives him a chance to make large ground gains in a hurry.
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& his arm is a big reason for wanting him in the game, but don't forget how quickly he got rid of the ball. That showed a high aptitude for reading defenses & understanding our offense.
 
thunderkyss said:
& his arm is a big reason for wanting him in the game, but don't forget how quickly he got rid of the ball. That showed a high aptitude for reading defenses & understanding our offense.
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I don't get the fascination with the "big arm". Brady has flourished for how many years in this system and he doesn't have a "big arm". I think it's pre-snap read ability, timing, decision-making, and accuracy that makes this offense work.
Oh and the receivers have to make the same reads the QB does or this offense doesn't work (see Chad Johnson).
But no one is talking about that half of this equation.
 
ObsiWan said:
I don't get the fascination with the "big arm". Brady has flourished for how many years in this system and he doesn't have a "big arm". I think it's pre-snap read ability, timing, decision-making, and accuracy that makes this offense work.
Oh and the receivers have to make the same reads the QB does or this offense doesn't work (see Chad Johnson).
But no one is talking about that half of this equation.
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Let's not forget the routine brain disconnects that Hoyer experiences when faced with bullets flying and pressure being applied......the main reason for his high INT numbers. Easy enough to overlook when he knows the D has strict orders to keep him upright and his jersey clean and sweet smelling.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Let's not forget the routine brain disconnects that Hoyer experiences when faced with bullets flying and pressure being applied......the main reason for his high INT numbers. Easy enough to overlook when he knows the D has strict orders to keep him upright and his jersey clean and sweet smelling.
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We should get a feel for whether he (or Mallett) gets stricken with 'happy feet' when preseason begins.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Let's not forget the routine brain disconnects that Hoyer experiences when faced with bullets flying and pressure being applied......the main reason for his high INT numbers. Easy enough to overlook when he knows the D has strict orders to keep him upright and his jersey clean and sweet smelling.
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To be fair, even Tom Brady wouldn't have much confidence playing within the Cleveland support structure.
 
Wq4eA8q.jpg


The QB we need not the one we deserve.
 
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