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Chronicle: The Mallett/Hoyer Competition
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
texanhead08
All Pro
It will feel like we are in tank mode if Hoyer is the starter.
Vance87
All Pro
Saying the 2012 team and the 2013 team were exactly the same? You boozin'?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Why are you asking me rather than the person I mockingly copied it from?
Not exactly tricky to see the origin:
But, OB has changed less than most new HCs. 2 years in with Kubiak about the only remaining players were AJ, Kris Brown and wouldn't make it to a 3rd year Chester Pitts, Morlon Greenwood and Dunta Robinson.
Last edited:
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
I don't remember Matt Schaub playing under BOB. I guess I missed last season.
Vance87
All Pro
Neither of you seemed like you were joking, they both sounded silly.
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
You know...Brian Hoyer kinda looks like Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer if you squint hard enough...
Disagree
...to an extent.
If O'Brien's offense and RAC's defense could pull off nine wins with four different QBs, why can't they squeeze one or two more wins out of the same team with a QB who knows the offense and the addition of Planet Vince to our defense?
I'm not saying instant super bowl but there's no reason I can think of why we won't make the playoffs.
.....unless Mallett and Hoyer both really suck. And at this point I see them as interchangeable.
Lawd he'p me, I'm feeling optimistic.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't think Lucky is referring to winner in the literal sense of at least 9-7 again. Sure it's conceivable Hoyer could lead us to that, possibly slightly better, possibly playoffs. But winner in the sense of win the division, win a playoff game and be a threat to win any game. That winner, no.
As to optimism, this QB imbroglio aside, I hope the ball continues to bounce well for us on turnovers.
Here's an interesting stat:
2012: 12-4, +12 turnover differential
2013: 2-14, -20 turnover differential
2014:9-7, +12 turnover differential
And yes I'm going to say it - the 2013 coaching staff didn't have a group aneurysm leading them to mis-coach largely the same players to a one year episode of amnesia on how to get and protect the ball. 2013 was an epic aberration. Kudos to OB for restoring some pride and dedication to a lost/disoriented team. Now find a damn QB.
Find one. Build one. Take some of Brady's hair and clone one. O'Brien got this job because of his reputation as a QB whisperer. He's not going to be able to Billick his way into a Lombardi trophy. O'Brien has to solve the QB position. And the clock is ticking.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
He won 2 games with Case Keenum, a QB who'd gone 0-8 in the previous season, a guy who was on the Rams Practice Squad, and still, you doubt?
He took Fitzpatrick, and if he'd had him remain healthy through that last Colts game, we'd probably have ridden him to the playoffs, and still, you doubt?
It may not be pretty, but O'Brien is perfectly willing to win ugly until the Football Gods grant us a "real" elite QB. And I'm OK with that.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Here is where I get hung up:
Hoyer (coming over from a disastrous season with the Browns) Mallett (2nd year with Texans) and Savage (2nd year with Texans) MUST be better than Fitz (journeyman gunslinger turned game manager), Mallett (1st year with Texans) and Savage (rookie 4th rounder). I don't include Keenum because had Savage not got hurt, OB would have rolled with him through the final two games.
So basically they have swapped Fitz for Hoyer, along with an additional off-season for both Mallett and Savage. And this makes the QB situation vastly improved?
I'm not saying that Mallett and Savage have not improved individually. But enough to be considered viable starters? Has Hoyer proven anything that says he can lead this team to more wins than Fitz did? Collectively, I am not really seeing the QB situation for this team being that much better than the start of TC last year to say that they are going to improve from last year's win total and make the playoffs.
Start of TC last year we had Fitz, an 0-8 Keenum, a rookie and who? I see vast improvement to that bunch on the roster now
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
For me, yeah, this makes the QB situation vastly improved from last season, but I'm not convinced it's as good as it could have been this year.
Last season, OB chose early on to roll with Fitzpatrick, and then stuck by his guns. He did what he had to do to win with Fitzpatrick and was almost able to ride Fitzpatrick into the playoffs. Fitzpatrick was still learning the offense halfway through the season, and you can see his improvement after being able to see Mallett run the offense like it was intended to be run. And then he got injured. I kinda wish we could have kept Fitzpatrick because I think he'd be head and shoulders better this year than last year.
Hoyer this year is better than Fitzpatrick last year. Hoyer comes into the offense having a pretty good handle on how to run it, both having been in it and having watched it up close being run by Brady, as opposed to Fitzpatrick who was having to put it together for himself without several years to learn it. While Hoyer may be better than Fitzpatrick was during the first part of last season, I'm not convinced Hoyer is as good as Fitzpatrick would have been this year.
Mallett didn't have an offseason at all with the Texans last year. This year, he does. He's had a chance to learn the new tweaks to the offense, and to build rapport with his receivers. So, yeah, he's better.
Savage has made huge strides over this year and I expect to see him being much better than he was last year in the preseason.
I don't see how someone could think our QB situation isn't much better than it was last year.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
All we know of Hoyer is how he performed for the Browns, and how he has looked in shorts during OTA's. I'm not sure how we can say he is a vast improvement over Fitz because he hasn't proved anything yet when it matters. It's not he was a proven veteran FA signing. Mallett does look better than last year, but according to pundits he hasn't done anything yet to show that he starts before Hoyer, who again, has a ceiling of Fitz until proven otherwise. And if Savage is playing, something bad has happened. Yes, that is the case with any 3rd string QB, but my point being he is firmly third and not challenging the other two. And the other two have around 10 combined wins in 10 combined seasons. The entire QB situation is predicated on unrealized potential of a soon-to-be 30 year old.
As of right now, there is not a QB on this team that has proven they are better than Fitz in real games. Until that happens, I'm praying for an '85 Bears defense and a 2010 Arian Foster...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Total disjunction. Fitz actually did it in live NFL games. Hoyer has lots of experience in shorts "in the system." Hoyer has never touched playing as well as Fitz last year in live games. To the contrary he's the guy the Browns have been looking to replace for years. He just lost his job to Josh freaking McCown. Other than blind optimism under a flag of "familiarity" what says he is better than Fitz?
And then a disjunctive return to non-hopefulskewingness.
Because at the end of the day 1 QB starts. Yeah, yeah injuries - generally speaking SB winning teams didn't deal with much in the way of injury at the QB position. We have exactly the same number of guys who might be that 1 guy this year as last - 1 - the same guy, Mallett. It's that and a bunch of hope that the rest of the team can carry Joe Schmoe...but maybe this year Joe weighs a little less, maybe.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah - he couldn't make it on the Browns. One of the "top 10 OCs" couldn't make anything out of him. He got benched for a drunk midget in a hottub.
I got your point, just...
At this point I'm being melodramatic about it with the hope it is daring fate/karma/whatever to throw it back in my face.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Precision in footwork matters greatly in Bill O'Brien's quarterback evaluation
Tania Ganguli, ESPN Staff Writer
How coaching can improve a quarterback's decision-making skills
Tania Ganguli, ESPN Staff Writer
One of the toughest transitions for young quarterbacks when they enter the NFL is understanding what to do with their feet.
In the Texans' offense, that skill is especially critical. The need for a quarterback who understands and can execute his footwork precisely hearkens back to a lot of Texans' coach Bill O'Brien's wish list for the quarterback positions. It's something he'll pay close attention to as he selects the Texans' next starting quarterback between contenders Ryan Mallett and Brian Hoyer.
"We have a certain way of protecting the pocket where we really depend on the quarterback being in the right spot for the play we call," O'Brien said.
That sometimes requires reteaching with new quarterbacks. O'Brien noted that a player's footwork might have been great for his college system, but will not work for the Texans. They work on teaching them not to overstride. Footwork can help with accuracy and with throwing a catchable ball. They work on the precision of their drops.
"A lot of guys take this big step when they throw the ball," O'Brien said. "Trying to shorten up their stride -- that helps, too."
Learning that requires an understanding of the offense as a whole, not just the quarterback's role. It's why intelligence is so high on O'Brien's list of wants in a quarterback and why objective athleticism isn't.
“We always talk about being an athlete in a six-foot circle," Hoyer said. "There’s a certain area where the tackles expect us to be and a certain area here the guards and centers expect us to be and our protections are made to create that area. It’s our responsibility to be able to move [in that area].
"Obviously the biggest example of that is Tom [Brady]. We all know that he can’t run very much; we tell him that all the time. For me, being able to see him move and manipulate the pocket, I think that’s what’s expected of a quarterback in this system.”
Here again is a way the quarterback can be a good teammate. Being where he's supposed to be when he's supposed to be makes life so much easier for his offensive line.
“When you’re going against a defender, you have to have an idea of where to run him,” Texans left tackle Duane Brown said. “If he’s trying to run up the field, you know the quarterback’s going to be at a certain depth. If he tries to give you an inside move, you know where the quarterback’s going to be so you know how to react and where to take him based off of that.”
Of course, practice and knowledge only go so far. Grace and proper footwork under pressure can be harder to achieve.
"It’s a very complicated position; there’s a lot of variables," offensive coordinator George Godsey said. "It’s a very difficult position. We could sit out there and throw back and forth and all of a sudden you get a rusher or you watch one of our practices and J.J. Watt is at your feet, you’re going to throw the ball differently. Everything isn’t exactly the way you practice."
It's a complicated evaluation process, too.
In the Texans' offense, that skill is especially critical. The need for a quarterback who understands and can execute his footwork precisely hearkens back to a lot of Texans' coach Bill O'Brien's wish list for the quarterback positions. It's something he'll pay close attention to as he selects the Texans' next starting quarterback between contenders Ryan Mallett and Brian Hoyer.
"We have a certain way of protecting the pocket where we really depend on the quarterback being in the right spot for the play we call," O'Brien said.
That sometimes requires reteaching with new quarterbacks. O'Brien noted that a player's footwork might have been great for his college system, but will not work for the Texans. They work on teaching them not to overstride. Footwork can help with accuracy and with throwing a catchable ball. They work on the precision of their drops.
"A lot of guys take this big step when they throw the ball," O'Brien said. "Trying to shorten up their stride -- that helps, too."
Learning that requires an understanding of the offense as a whole, not just the quarterback's role. It's why intelligence is so high on O'Brien's list of wants in a quarterback and why objective athleticism isn't.
“We always talk about being an athlete in a six-foot circle," Hoyer said. "There’s a certain area where the tackles expect us to be and a certain area here the guards and centers expect us to be and our protections are made to create that area. It’s our responsibility to be able to move [in that area].
"Obviously the biggest example of that is Tom [Brady]. We all know that he can’t run very much; we tell him that all the time. For me, being able to see him move and manipulate the pocket, I think that’s what’s expected of a quarterback in this system.”
Here again is a way the quarterback can be a good teammate. Being where he's supposed to be when he's supposed to be makes life so much easier for his offensive line.
“When you’re going against a defender, you have to have an idea of where to run him,” Texans left tackle Duane Brown said. “If he’s trying to run up the field, you know the quarterback’s going to be at a certain depth. If he tries to give you an inside move, you know where the quarterback’s going to be so you know how to react and where to take him based off of that.”
Of course, practice and knowledge only go so far. Grace and proper footwork under pressure can be harder to achieve.
"It’s a very complicated position; there’s a lot of variables," offensive coordinator George Godsey said. "It’s a very difficult position. We could sit out there and throw back and forth and all of a sudden you get a rusher or you watch one of our practices and J.J. Watt is at your feet, you’re going to throw the ball differently. Everything isn’t exactly the way you practice."
It's a complicated evaluation process, too.
How coaching can improve a quarterback's decision-making skills
There is a school of thought that a player's off-the-field decision-making résumé can indicate something about his on-the-field performance. Texans coach Bill O'Brien doesn't see it that way.
"I believe you have to separate the two," O'Brien said. "I do believe that the guy that’s your leader, I have a strong belief that guy has to be a high character guy. You cannot be worried about what that guy’s doing when he leaves the stadium every night. But as far as his decision-making off the field, his decision-making on the field is what it’s about."
When O'Brien evaluates quarterbacks, decision-making is one facet to which he pays special attention. It affects the smoothness of an offense. It affects ball security. It affects the fate of teams in high-pressure situations, when they need their quarterback to lead them to victory.
"When the game takes place, they have to make fast decisions and could be in a critical time," Texans offensive coordinator George Godsey said. "There’s no program that you just push the button and execute it. It’s based on what you see and what decision you make. From a coaching standpoint we try to do that. Let the players play and give them clues and teach them as much as we can."
Their belief is that even if a player's decision-making isn't where it needs to be, it can be improved through coaching. It's an opinion shared by other quarterbacks coaches in the league, and one that surprised me a little bit. So I asked O'Brien how you teach someone to make better decisions.
"Teaching them about defensive football; coverages, fronts, blitzes," he said. "How your run-check relates to that defense. You can really help them with their decision-making by teaching them in your system what they’re looking for."
Interestingly, O'Brien listed decision-making among the physical characteristics he looks for in players, rather than a mental one. Unlike most mental attributes, a player's decision-making is visible on film.
"It's both because you have to know where to throw but you also have to put you body in the right position to make those throws," Texans quarterback Brian Hoyer said. "There's a lot of places where a drop could be different depending on what side you read. There’s the mental aspect where I’m going to have to drop back, throw and react. So I can understand what he’s talking about there."
Trust is the basis of any successful coach-quarterback relationship and when coaches can trust that the quarterback can use the knowledge he's gained to make the right decisions, the offense benefits.
"I believe you have to separate the two," O'Brien said. "I do believe that the guy that’s your leader, I have a strong belief that guy has to be a high character guy. You cannot be worried about what that guy’s doing when he leaves the stadium every night. But as far as his decision-making off the field, his decision-making on the field is what it’s about."
When O'Brien evaluates quarterbacks, decision-making is one facet to which he pays special attention. It affects the smoothness of an offense. It affects ball security. It affects the fate of teams in high-pressure situations, when they need their quarterback to lead them to victory.
"When the game takes place, they have to make fast decisions and could be in a critical time," Texans offensive coordinator George Godsey said. "There’s no program that you just push the button and execute it. It’s based on what you see and what decision you make. From a coaching standpoint we try to do that. Let the players play and give them clues and teach them as much as we can."
Their belief is that even if a player's decision-making isn't where it needs to be, it can be improved through coaching. It's an opinion shared by other quarterbacks coaches in the league, and one that surprised me a little bit. So I asked O'Brien how you teach someone to make better decisions.
"Teaching them about defensive football; coverages, fronts, blitzes," he said. "How your run-check relates to that defense. You can really help them with their decision-making by teaching them in your system what they’re looking for."
Interestingly, O'Brien listed decision-making among the physical characteristics he looks for in players, rather than a mental one. Unlike most mental attributes, a player's decision-making is visible on film.
"It's both because you have to know where to throw but you also have to put you body in the right position to make those throws," Texans quarterback Brian Hoyer said. "There's a lot of places where a drop could be different depending on what side you read. There’s the mental aspect where I’m going to have to drop back, throw and react. So I can understand what he’s talking about there."
Trust is the basis of any successful coach-quarterback relationship and when coaches can trust that the quarterback can use the knowledge he's gained to make the right decisions, the offense benefits.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Number19
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the post; an excellent analysis of the QB position in OB's system. And relating back to the earlier discussion on whether, or how much, improvement we have at the position over last year, is a good argument indicating why both Mallett and Savage will be improved in their second year within OB's offense. And why Hoyer could make a quick transition and actually be better than he was in Cleveland. Going into this season, I like our QB situation. I don't need to project, at this time, toward next year's draft. What I'm focused on are the players we have right now and our prospects for this season. And I like what I see.
Imo, OB has time. It's not like they're handing out franchise QBs at the welfare line. WR know they don't hit free agency & most QBS drafted to be franchise QBs fail to do so regardless of where they were drafted.
I'm pleased that we continue to build & develop a team in the meantime.
I would hope we look to the draft next season, but if we have another winning season, especially a playoff season It wouldn't bother me if they didn't.
I'm pleased that we continue to build & develop a team in the meantime.
I would hope we look to the draft next season, but if we have another winning season, especially a playoff season It wouldn't bother me if they didn't.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Y'all who can no longer see posts you made - knock off the political crap in the football forums. Take it to the NSZ.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
OK, but I didn't get to see any replies I might have got.
I still say the chances are we're going into the season without a QB good enough to make the playoffs and win a postseason game.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Cut out the religious crap you heathen you!
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Do tell, someone within the organization or just someone who was at the open/media access practices?
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am hopeful our QBs are "all they can be" but what I think might happen is the rest of the team will get us deeper in the playoffs resulting in later in the round picks that we can use to trade up to get a franchise type QB. This means every player getting on field maxes their potential.
Will the guy be there?
Will the guy be there?
Number19
Hall of Fame
If we play musical chairs with coaching staff, we may not find "the guy". But if OB is the long term solution at head coach, then finding "his guy" to run "his offense" can be found lower in the draft. We don't need a high draft pick.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Then you are talking Savage and we draft BPA
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Really? Can you cite the examples of that working out?
We aren't hunting unicorns folks.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's hard enough finding examples of coaches who aren't yanked after a couple of years if they don't find that guy.
Carroll and Wilson? Lewis and Dalton? Parcells and Romo or maybe Hostetler?
The precondition is just so rare.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Dalton was damn near a 1st round pick and started from day 1.
Wilson wasn't intended to start
Dallas did everything they could to run Romo off. They traded for Drew Henson for goodness sake. Hell Sean Payton was gone before he stepped foot on the field.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Like I said, it ain't easy.
Doesn't mean it can't be done, but it's definitely not the norm.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Brian Hoyer faces bigger task than earning starting job, he has to win Texans fans
This isn't your fault, Brian Hoyer.
You didn't create this mess. You're in no way personally responsible for the frustration and fury that's surrounded your name, ever since you became professionally attached to the Texans.
But the avalanche that awaits? You better be ready for it.
Just 16 days remain until the start of the summer showdown in Houston: Ryan Mallett vs. Hoyer for the right to become Bill O'Brien's starting quarterback.
It's the first-ever everything-is-up-grabs QB battle in franchise history. It's the biggest decision of O'Brien's coaching career.
Mallett has it easy. Fire enough accurate bullets, display the sharp command that O'Brien seeks, prove that he can expertly lead an NFL offense for more than two weeks, and the job is his.
It'll be Mallett Time for real in Houston. And all the blue-and-red football lovers who've yearned for No. 15 for almost a year will finally have the QB they want.
Hoyer's never had anything come easy in the NFL. Now, he's fighting two wars at once.
No. 1: Beat out Mallett.
Hoyer has the edge heading into the Aug. 1 start of training camp. He was sleeker during offseason workouts. He has 17 career starts to Mallett's two. He's played in 32 games in six seasons, compared to just seven contests in four years for Mallett. He can roll out, drill 15-yard crossing patterns and soft-touch a bomb, all while being the system-first quarterback O'Brien believes in.
Advantage, Hoyer.
But it's the second war that already weighs him down.
Outside of offensive coordinator George Godsey, select Texans, family members and O'Brien, no one in Houston believes in Hoyer. No one.
Nobody's excited. No one cares. Mention Hoyer being a pre-camp favorite on talk radio or Twitter, and a very-Houston combination of hatred and indifference pours in. Explain everything about Hoyer that appeals to O'Brien and Godsey, and the blank faces never change.
Yeah, OK, so? What about Mallett?
For the legion who've lived through David Carr, Matt Schaub, T.J. Yates, Ryan Fitzpatrick and all the other names not worth mentioning – this isn't an obituary -- Hoyer's just another body blocking the road. He'll never be the Texans' franchise QB. He won't be The One. And just like the faithful turned on Carr, Schaub and Fitzpatrick, they've already decommitted and pledged lifelong apathy to the new No. 7.
O'Brien couldn't care less and he shouldn't. He has games to win and a real job to do.
Hoyer might care but he shouldn't. He hasn't even thrown a preseason pass for the Texans; he could become the team's best QB since before the fall of Schaub.
But such is the state of an unwanted quarterback's life in present-day Houston. After 13 years of bad luck, broken luck and no luck – except getting beaten by Andrew – the allure of the unknown has become absolutely irresistible.
It was Case Keenum in 2013. It was Tom Savage during training camp last year. Now, it's Mallett.
"Ultimately, you win over the fans by winning football games," Hoyer said Tuesday at a community event. "I haven't had the privilege of playing in front of our fans yet, but all I've heard is good things."
Yes and no.
In just 13 years, Kirby Drive has become the home address for one of the most passionate NFL fanbases in the country. But like every franchise without a quarterback that buyers can believe in, the 71,000 strong who fill Bob McNair's pockets every game have become so dug in that nothing except The One will move them.
Schaub couldn't do it. Fitzpatrick never was going to. Hoyer's next on the chopping block.
Win the job and he'll still have to win over an entire frustrated city.
Or Mallett could just take over both and the Texans could start selling quarterback jerseys again.
You didn't create this mess. You're in no way personally responsible for the frustration and fury that's surrounded your name, ever since you became professionally attached to the Texans.
But the avalanche that awaits? You better be ready for it.
Just 16 days remain until the start of the summer showdown in Houston: Ryan Mallett vs. Hoyer for the right to become Bill O'Brien's starting quarterback.
It's the first-ever everything-is-up-grabs QB battle in franchise history. It's the biggest decision of O'Brien's coaching career.
Mallett has it easy. Fire enough accurate bullets, display the sharp command that O'Brien seeks, prove that he can expertly lead an NFL offense for more than two weeks, and the job is his.
It'll be Mallett Time for real in Houston. And all the blue-and-red football lovers who've yearned for No. 15 for almost a year will finally have the QB they want.
Hoyer's never had anything come easy in the NFL. Now, he's fighting two wars at once.
No. 1: Beat out Mallett.
Hoyer has the edge heading into the Aug. 1 start of training camp. He was sleeker during offseason workouts. He has 17 career starts to Mallett's two. He's played in 32 games in six seasons, compared to just seven contests in four years for Mallett. He can roll out, drill 15-yard crossing patterns and soft-touch a bomb, all while being the system-first quarterback O'Brien believes in.
Advantage, Hoyer.
But it's the second war that already weighs him down.
Outside of offensive coordinator George Godsey, select Texans, family members and O'Brien, no one in Houston believes in Hoyer. No one.
Nobody's excited. No one cares. Mention Hoyer being a pre-camp favorite on talk radio or Twitter, and a very-Houston combination of hatred and indifference pours in. Explain everything about Hoyer that appeals to O'Brien and Godsey, and the blank faces never change.
Yeah, OK, so? What about Mallett?
For the legion who've lived through David Carr, Matt Schaub, T.J. Yates, Ryan Fitzpatrick and all the other names not worth mentioning – this isn't an obituary -- Hoyer's just another body blocking the road. He'll never be the Texans' franchise QB. He won't be The One. And just like the faithful turned on Carr, Schaub and Fitzpatrick, they've already decommitted and pledged lifelong apathy to the new No. 7.
O'Brien couldn't care less and he shouldn't. He has games to win and a real job to do.
Hoyer might care but he shouldn't. He hasn't even thrown a preseason pass for the Texans; he could become the team's best QB since before the fall of Schaub.
But such is the state of an unwanted quarterback's life in present-day Houston. After 13 years of bad luck, broken luck and no luck – except getting beaten by Andrew – the allure of the unknown has become absolutely irresistible.
It was Case Keenum in 2013. It was Tom Savage during training camp last year. Now, it's Mallett.
"Ultimately, you win over the fans by winning football games," Hoyer said Tuesday at a community event. "I haven't had the privilege of playing in front of our fans yet, but all I've heard is good things."
Yes and no.
In just 13 years, Kirby Drive has become the home address for one of the most passionate NFL fanbases in the country. But like every franchise without a quarterback that buyers can believe in, the 71,000 strong who fill Bob McNair's pockets every game have become so dug in that nothing except The One will move them.
Schaub couldn't do it. Fitzpatrick never was going to. Hoyer's next on the chopping block.
Win the job and he'll still have to win over an entire frustrated city.
Or Mallett could just take over both and the Texans could start selling quarterback jerseys again.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I get the point but...
Hoyer has had chances so it is partially his fault. That includes Houston fans watching a head to head match up with Hoyer completing just 40% of his passes while Mallett had the fastest release in the NFL.
Then he got bench for an alcoholic lazy midget. Sorry, not confidence inspiring
Hoyer has had chances so it is partially his fault. That includes Houston fans watching a head to head match up with Hoyer completing just 40% of his passes while Mallett had the fastest release in the NFL.
Then he got bench for an alcoholic lazy midget. Sorry, not confidence inspiring
Scooter
Funky
Dude's been in the league for 6 years. The reason for fan apathy IS his fault, we've seen him play on Sundays. Good for O'Brien if he likes what happens in the offseason or Monday-Saturday. Those things don't matter to the fans, we tune in and show up on Sundays hoping for wins.
The reason fans get excited for guys like Mallett and Keenum is they're more unknown. There's hope. We only get highlights, and it gives encouragement that this time might be different. Fitzpatrick? Hoyer? You know ahead of time the peak of their ability, and it's very ... meh.
The reason fans get excited for guys like Mallett and Keenum is they're more unknown. There's hope. We only get highlights, and it gives encouragement that this time might be different. Fitzpatrick? Hoyer? You know ahead of time the peak of their ability, and it's very ... meh.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From The Toro Times:
What to expect in 2015
There is a common misconception that Mallett takes more chances than Hoyer, but this isn’t true at all. Mallett had 2.9 touchdowns for every interception in college as he finished with 69 and 24. For Hoyer it was 1.5 touchdowns for every interception as he finished with 35 and 23.
So Hoyer had one less interception and 34 less touchdowns. That’s not even looking at the yards per attempt, completion percentage and rating, all which Malleett performed better than Hoyer in (while facing SEC competition during their most dominant run).
Mallett may not have many stats to compare during his NFL career, but Hoyer has not improved on his ratio at all as he now has 19 touchdowns and 19 picks in his career. During his lone season as a starter, he threw more interceptions (13) than touchdowns (12).
I believe Mallett should win the job, although I have my doubts if he will, because it seems for some reason the team just doesn’t want to trust him. If the team did turn the job over to him, I believe with this solid running game and young receivers like DeAndre Hopkins, Jaelen Strong and Cecil Shorts III, the Texans offense could start to scare some people.
Mallett brings an edge and a fear of getting beat deep that no one else on the roster possesses and I believe if given the chance he could become the answer for a long time at the position for Houston, as opposed to a one year stop gap like Hoyer.
What to expect in 2015
There is a common misconception that Mallett takes more chances than Hoyer, but this isn’t true at all. Mallett had 2.9 touchdowns for every interception in college as he finished with 69 and 24. For Hoyer it was 1.5 touchdowns for every interception as he finished with 35 and 23.
So Hoyer had one less interception and 34 less touchdowns. That’s not even looking at the yards per attempt, completion percentage and rating, all which Malleett performed better than Hoyer in (while facing SEC competition during their most dominant run).
Mallett may not have many stats to compare during his NFL career, but Hoyer has not improved on his ratio at all as he now has 19 touchdowns and 19 picks in his career. During his lone season as a starter, he threw more interceptions (13) than touchdowns (12).
I believe Mallett should win the job, although I have my doubts if he will, because it seems for some reason the team just doesn’t want to trust him. If the team did turn the job over to him, I believe with this solid running game and young receivers like DeAndre Hopkins, Jaelen Strong and Cecil Shorts III, the Texans offense could start to scare some people.
Mallett brings an edge and a fear of getting beat deep that no one else on the roster possesses and I believe if given the chance he could become the answer for a long time at the position for Houston, as opposed to a one year stop gap like Hoyer.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There's a reason Mallett was considered a 1st round talent (who went in the 3rd for off field issues which have not reappeared for 4 years) and Hoyer went undrafted.
As the article says/implies, at best you get a stop gap with Hoyer. Beating the Bengals in the 1st round of the playoffs is not going to impress me if next off season we road an OK 30 year old to 1 playoff win with a team that could have been contenders with a Schaub (pre-injury) level QB and maybe really serious contenders for the whole thing with a top 10 QB.
Tick tock folks. We just watched one hall of fame career squandered. Let's not waste an arguable GOAT career too.
As the article says/implies, at best you get a stop gap with Hoyer. Beating the Bengals in the 1st round of the playoffs is not going to impress me if next off season we road an OK 30 year old to 1 playoff win with a team that could have been contenders with a Schaub (pre-injury) level QB and maybe really serious contenders for the whole thing with a top 10 QB.
Tick tock folks. We just watched one hall of fame career squandered. Let's not waste an arguable GOAT career too.
We'd seen Fitzy play before too and were unimpressed. And when O'Brien named him the starter we were incensed; we just knew he was going to suck big time. Then O'Brien got a career year from the guy who was learning the system on the fly.
Well now O'Brien has two guys (three really) who "grew up" in this system. And I think O'Brien and Godsey will get the best out of either one of them. I like Hoyer better (yeah, I said it) because of the touch factor. Look at Brady. No one has ever accused him of having a "laser-rocket arm" yet he excels. This offense is about good reads, precise timing, and touch. So Mallett having this mega arm does not impress me one bit. It's not required for this offense (again, see Brady) and relying on that arm strength may well lead to bad, Jeff George-like decisions.
I'm going to look for O'Brien/Godsey to pick the guy who can consistently get points out of this offense and not the fan favorite. Whether that guy is Mallett or Hoyer, I won't jump off a ledge.
Well now O'Brien has two guys (three really) who "grew up" in this system. And I think O'Brien and Godsey will get the best out of either one of them. I like Hoyer better (yeah, I said it) because of the touch factor. Look at Brady. No one has ever accused him of having a "laser-rocket arm" yet he excels. This offense is about good reads, precise timing, and touch. So Mallett having this mega arm does not impress me one bit. It's not required for this offense (again, see Brady) and relying on that arm strength may well lead to bad, Jeff George-like decisions.
I'm going to look for O'Brien/Godsey to pick the guy who can consistently get points out of this offense and not the fan favorite. Whether that guy is Mallett or Hoyer, I won't jump off a ledge.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fitz was a gussied up stats still sucks which is why he was benched. Harvard boy was embarrassed by Mallett starting his 1st game and said he learned a lot about how the offense was supposed to run from watching Mallett in that game.
And I'd say the O has a lot more to do with speed than touch. And if OB agreed arm strength was irrelevant we wouldn't have Savage or Mallett on the team in the 1st place.
This all has the feel of personality conflict/preference/sheep pictures.
Yippee let's get a happy 10-6 wildcard spot and a new QB discussion next year - quite possibly without our RB we rode to 10-6 because we don't want to put too much on our QB.
In case that and my prior posts are ambiguous I think our QB situation looks like primates fornicating a pigskin ovoid. I'll hope to be proven wrong.
Just wait 2 seasons from now JJ will "only" get 16 sacks and dalemurphy and the other draftnis will be talking about his value in a trade compared to his contract. Will we have had a QB better than Schaub by then? It won't be Hoyer.
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We are in complete agreement here. Our previous "QB-guru" head coach had gone out and beat the bushes and found his starter by the start of OTAs. And I think that's because he KNEW what the he wanted and KNEW he could teach it to his padawan learner.
I keep waiting for O'Brien to be decisive like that and pick "his guy" but.....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's game tape on Hoyer. Is practice (gonna pass by...) going to supplant that? You've watched Mallet in practice for a year. You benched a QB having his "best" career year for him. Is more practice going to clear up your indecision or only getting to a deadline you didn't set?
Godsey has had 4 years with Mallett and OB has had 2. If they can't take a shot then they should have let him go. Otherwise they should have been spending every moment since the end of last season grooming their QB.
Last comment and really follow up on a prior one.
2016 Foster is $9.5 on the roster, $2.5 cut/traded. I don't think RBs are fungible. We ride Foster to overcome our QB, get set for a disappointment in repeating in 2016.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A 1:1 career TD to INT ratio does not exactly resonate a QB that has had ANY consistency in putting these characteristics together.
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