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Chris Mortensen on Carr in his chat

Carr Bomb said:
Wow thats a great argument, lets take a player, because his hometown Walmart shuts down on friday nights. What exactly does that have to do with the heart and drive in a football player that lives and plays outside of Texas. There are kids all across America that train, sweet, and bleed just as much as any kid inside this state.

To think that a prospect is subpar just because where he grew up is extremely close minded and ignorant.

This isn't High School Football, its the NFL

You obviously are not from Texas! True there are football players all over the world dedicated to the game, no doubt. But the football fans in Texas are different, they love the game more than anything. They will drive thousands of miles to watch a game, ask USC if they expected to see that much burnt orange in their home town. It would be the same for any Texas college, not only UT.

Speaking of colleges, every college in the nation comes to Texas looking for players. Sure we look everywhere, but a majority of the colleges in Texas have all Texas players. It is not to say that we always have the best players, we just have a lot more of them on a consistent basis.
 
thunderkyss said:
Signing Vince Young, or Reggie Bush, means we've got to get ready to say good bye to either Carr or DD. One of the other is going to go. Yeah, you can play DD & Reggie on the same down, but that wont' happen very long. It will be one or the other.

If either of these two guys earned their keep, it's DD.


Since VY won't be the pick and Bush will most that likely be, DD has to go. I can't see a RB getting QB money splitting time with a host of players. I respect all the players and the commitment that they have shown to the city but this makes no sense whatsoever (signing a RB @ QB money). Do I know that's the ballpark figure he wants? No. But why should he ask for less? Pay Bush and trade Davis for a 3rd round pick.
 
kbourda said:
Since VY won't be the pick and Bush will most that likely be, DD has to go. I can't see a RB getting QB money splitting time with a host of players. I respect all the players and the commitment that they have shown to the city but this makes no sense whatsoever (signing a RB @ QB money). Do I know that's the ballpark figure he wants? No. But why should he ask for less? Pay Bush and trade Davis for a 3rd round pick.



Come on we could at lease get number 2 don't you think if not this year but next.
 
trutxn said:
Vietnamese dudes, Korean dudes, and the mayor's son are not Vince.

In the context that we are talking about they are.

You have guys playing on your team already ( not born in your city ). You don't move them down to second string or kick them off the team because the mayor's son showed up.
That's what Vincent Young is in the context of what we are talking about. A guy that is supposed to be leading us, without ever playing down for us, solely because he was born in the city.

Understand I am not dishing on Young. What I want see is how you are going to tell Carr he is not wanted. How you would justify it.

I take it that you believe David Carr to be not as good as what we pay him to be and that is enough to eject him. Your reason is that he failed to do anything spectacular in the past four years.

Now on the off-hand chance that we do not draft Vince... Is David Carr still not worth it for us? Do we need to start shopping for a new leader? When would you start? mid season? after the season? After two seasons??
( under this scenario Vince is flying new colors and not going be available for a long time, so we would have to rule out getting him )
 
trutxn said:
You obviously are not from Texas!

Actually I'm a 4th generation Texan, I was born and raised right there in Houston, I'm just not close minded or under some kind of delusion that there aren't great players outside of Texas.

trutxn said:
True there are football players all over the world dedicated to the game, no doubt. But the football fans in Texas are different, they love the game more than anything. They will drive thousands of miles to watch a game, ask USC if they expected to see that much burnt orange in their home town. It would be the same for any Texas college, not only UT.

What in the world does this have to do with anything, when did we decide we were drafting the "Texas football fan", Im sorry, but if Charlie starts drafting Fans, I'm done.

trutxn said:
Speaking of colleges, every college in the nation comes to Texas looking for players. Sure we look everywhere, but a majority of the colleges in Texas have all Texas players. It is not to say that we always have the best players, we just have a lot more of them on a consistent basis.

Florida was just recognized as having the best recruiting class this year and almost all their recruits came from in state.

USC was just back to back champions and lost the bid for their third and their program was almost solely built on in-state products.

Texas just like every other great football state is able to grow their own recruits and field a power house with them, but like I've stated above, they aren't alone. That is the advantage every football state has.

Just because football players don't play in front of huge crowds on friday nights doesn't mean they are any less of football players. Football is nation wide.
 
Carr Bomb said:
You can slice it any way you want, Bush had more than 3 big runs, he had 3 0f 9 or more a 18 yarder and a 26 yard scamper down the sideline for a td.

As far as the Trojans being a smash mouth football team, that isn't true, they were a high scoring, fast moving team, not smash football.

Its true Reggie was held to zero yards a couple of times, but that has nothing to do with the play I described, both Reggie and White should of been on the field, in the plays where Reggie was stopped they had sideling to sideling defensive coverage, in the play where they denied White they stacked the line and drove straight through the middle plugging the run, that kind of defense would of not stopped Bush cutting to the outside, sorry, it wouldn't.

As far as you calling 4th and 2- the 2006 Trojans, thats not true either, its true they gambled in games, but they gambled with their best players, The Bush Push, the entire Fresno State game, ect. The fact that Bush wasn't put in position to make a difference was a complete brain fart on the coaching staff. Even if he didn't get the ball on that play, just him being on the feild would of forced Texas to draw more coverage to the outside.

I also have the game on tape, I've watched it over 10 times....I love that game.

Also you saying that most people agreed going for it on 4th and 2 is a little misleading, yes most people agreed that it was right to go for it on 4th and 2, but a overwhelming majority agreed it was a bad idea not to have Bush on the field.

Bush isn't percieved as a pounder, the reason why he will be taken with the first ovrl. pick is because he is a gamebreaker, he multiple big runs in that game both passing and receiving. Texas went into the game keyed on Bush, that was evident from the first play of the game and he still walked away with a 6.3 ypc avg. If it wasn't for his bonehead play, we might be celebrating a different champion right now.

Carroll said on Trojan Confidential they did play smash mouth football all year. That play that you say was a bonehead play, worked everytime that night.

Most people in LA agreed with the call that I talk to. Their point to me is that Texas got lucking in stopping it because it was such a high percentage play for them.

That is what I heard on the radio in Carroll's interview and what I discussed with Trojan fans. Most of them would disagree with you.

Take it for what it's worth.

It really doesn't matter.

The Horns won and I was there.

If the Texans want to draft Bush, I really don't care. I am getting tired of talking about that.
 
trutxn said:
You obviously are not from Texas! True there are football players all over the world dedicated to the game, no doubt. But the football fans in Texas are different, they love the game more than anything. They will drive thousands of miles to watch a game, ask USC if they expected to see that much burnt orange in their home town. It would be the same for any Texas college, not only UT.

Speaking of colleges, every college in the nation comes to Texas looking for players. Sure we look everywhere, but a majority of the colleges in Texas have all Texas players. It is not to say that we always have the best players, we just have a lot more of them on a consistent basis.

I was at the game, I think they were more surprised about all the beer drinking. We tore that place up.

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IMO Carr will have his best year(but short of Pro Bowl). Kubes is adaptable and plays to his team's strengths. Carr will bootleg more and stop running out of bounds for a loss AND sack. I think the O-line will surprise us. From most of what I've read from the "experts", coaching was our main problem. Capers was/is more comfortable with proven talent and veterans (see Panthers 2nd year and subsequent meltdown due to salary cap issues) than with evaluating talent and implementing systems to maximize the talent available. Davis IS a talented back but simply isn't durable enough. Bush will make this offense SCARY good. Imagine Bush AND DD in the same backfild with AJ, Moulds and Armstrong/Mathis/Walters at receiver. Poses some problems. Add to that a true tight end that might block OR receive(they actually CAN do that) on any given play and you have a world of opportunity on the O side of the ball. I agree with the post that said Carr is a gambler. Give him the freedom to improvise some and he can shine. He has a lot of talent. Kubes will let it show with his tutoring and gameplanning. Watch some films of Carr. He is pretty accurate throwing on the run(he's rushed for like 25,000 yds. before being sacked...lol... should be a category for that!!!) and can find open receivers or scramble for decent yardage. Just my :twocents:
 
Reddevil63 said:
No, that was Carr. He called his plays at the line for the first half and scored 24 points. In the 2nd half Pendry took over to protect the lead and the rest is history.

that was the Arizona game, right?
 
trutxn said:
Not any more. I do agree that CA and FL are good football states. But football is like religion in Texas.

And out of that we have ... Drew Brees, Chris Simms and Vince Young as potential QB's from Texas next year starting? May be missing some but we sure aren't dominating as you state.
 
trutxn said:
You show me a 24 hour Super Wal-Mart outside of Texas that will shutdown for a highschool football game.

Enough said.

Well, then it's not really a 24h joint is it?
 
Caphorn said:
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but it seemed that Mort was saying that Carr was a talented QB (not just a guy who has the tools) and that his talent - even in light of the Texans poor team performance - is still viewed as worthy of a No. 1 draft pick. He's not just saying he has tools to succeed, but might not succeed. He's saying Carr is an elite QB talent that you pay a ton of money for to play the position.


Well, if you are saying that a player has talent and that's the end of your statement then you are certainly not asserting that he will live up to that talent. The context of Mort's conversation wasn't a defense for David Carr. He was simply outlining how few college QBs the past few years have been graded out by NFL people to be worthy of the #1 overall pick. He is talking about the assessment made 4 years ago- not commenting on the player he is now or will neccessarily become. Otherwise, shouldn't Tom Brady be in that group he listed?
 
the wonger need food said:
It was against Arizona. Carr had a total of 150 yards passing and zero TD's for the game. He audibled to the offtackle run just about every play in that half. It was by no means an All Pro performance... just another example of evisionist history.


Well your facts are right allthough your slant seems a bit partial. Here are a few articles that might freshen some memories about what happened that day against Arizona.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3533916.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3533856.html
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache...calls+own+plays&d=U7uPpxbfMnbq&icp=1&.intl=us

Heres an excerpt to think on

"Carr was 16-of-20 for 93 yards in the first half, and after Pendry took over the play calling in the second half, the QB was 6-of-13 for 57 yards.

"In the second half, we didn't execute as well," Pendry said. "We didn't convert enough on third down, but the defense controlled the game, and that was enough."


I'm not a Carr Lover or Hater - I just want the team to do well myself - But IMO - The difference shown in the game overall was how Carr was efficient and played a solid first half of offense and helped the team score 24 points - What more is a good QB supposed to do? He showed his ability to play the position well when given the reigns - to recognize what the Defense was giving and capitalizing on it - He ran the offense and held onto the ball and didnt turn it over for near 10 minutes in the second quarter alone while driving for another score - Thats on just one drive - IMO It's not just his ability to throw the TD that made his playcalling good on that day but his overall effectiveness at the position. I got the impression you thought his effort was lackluster and not special at all based on your comments and I would totally disagree with that PoV.
 
The other thing was that when Mathis lined up wide Carr was able to throw 50 yard bombs and totally had a wonderful first half against the Rams but defense killed us.
 
U4ikrob said:
I got the impression you thought his effort was lackluster and not special at all based on your comments and I would totally disagree with that PoV.

I was at the stadium and watched him closely the entire game. Believe me, there was nothing "special" about his performance. The offense consisted of Off tackle left (with an occassional off tackle right) and a bunch of hitch passes.

I guess by Carr's standards throwing for almost 100 yards in a half is considered "special". Any time there is a chance to go over 200 yards it's a special day for Dave.
 
El Tejano said:
The other thing was that when Mathis lined up wide Carr was able to throw 50 yard bombs and totally had a wonderful first half against the Rams but defense killed us.

St. Louis had one of the worst defenses last year. I am not sure you want to use that defense as a measuring stick for our offense.
 
U4ikrob said:
Well your facts are right allthough your slant seems a bit partial. Here are a few articles that might freshen some memories about what happened that day against Arizona.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3533916.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3533856.html
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache...calls+own+plays&d=U7uPpxbfMnbq&icp=1&.intl=us

Heres an excerpt to think on

"Carr was 16-of-20 for 93 yards in the first half, and after Pendry took over the play calling in the second half, the QB was 6-of-13 for 57 yards.

"In the second half, we didn't execute as well," Pendry said. "We didn't convert enough on third down, but the defense controlled the game, and that was enough."


I'm not a Carr Lover or Hater - I just want the team to do well myself - But IMO - The difference shown in the game overall was how Carr was efficient and played a solid first half of offense and helped the team score 24 points - What more is a good QB supposed to do? He showed his ability to play the position well when given the reigns - to recognize what the Defense was giving and capitalizing on it - He ran the offense and held onto the ball and didnt turn it over for near 10 minutes in the second quarter alone while driving for another score - Thats on just one drive - IMO It's not just his ability to throw the TD that made his playcalling good on that day but his overall effectiveness at the position. I got the impression you thought his effort was lackluster and not special at all based on your comments and I would totally disagree with that PoV.

So then it is a fact that Pendry called the whole St Louis Game.
 
5.8 ypc???!!!...that's like a lateral...let's hope we see some passes 'down' the field this year! 5.8ypc, WOW!
 
the wonger need food said:
I was at the stadium and watched him closely the entire game. Believe me, there was nothing "special" about his performance. The offense consisted of Off tackle left (with an occassional off tackle right) and a bunch of hitch passes.

I guess by Carr's standards throwing for almost 100 yards in a half is considered "special". Any time there is a chance to go over 200 yards it's a special day for Dave.

He threw close to 100 yards - no pics 80% completions on 20 passes and the team scored 24 points and you still say it was nothing special??? :confused:
For the record I watched the game on TV - What I saw was an example of how a guy can play his positon pretty well and make an offense work. More to the point is that the team scored 24 points in a half - but only 6 more under the coaches playcalling - To me it showed that DC had talent and can make plays when given a chance. The coaching in the second half reflected it alot - the playcalling was scaled down tremendousely and par for the course Palmer/Capers tried to play the secodn half "Not to lose - instead of Playing to win". Honestly I'm not sure what your gripe is Wonger - allthough I would hazard a guess it comes from VY man-love/Carr-hater disease. :rolleyes: :sarcasm:

and also for the record - I havent sent you hate mail or bad rep just because were disagreeing like some other folks do.
 
well I be, so now what do we do? I mean here we are with a new system, and coaches and too numerous other personel. Do we give the guy (Carr) some more time and say something like, Well we'll let him slide another year if he screws up or has a bad year for what ever reason. I hate to say it but yes. 2006 and 2007 are the years that will make or break Carr. I sincerely hope that we are able to give him a chance to show us what he can do. Hell I would like to come home and turn the DVR on and look forward to watching our team play. Instead of thinking about drinking a few to kill the pain of seeing us play and I don't even drink.
 
I was at the Arizona game. It's the only Texans game I have ever been too. I was sitting about 10 rows back behind the Texans bench so had a great seat. Carr was nothing special. Trust me. First half, second half, halftime, during timeouts, in the shower, the parking lot, or anywhere else. If that is anyone's idea of "special" then I feel really sorry for ya. And yes, I know how many points were scored. I was there. :redtowel:
 
U4ikrob said:
He threw close to 100 yards - no pics 80% completions on 20 passes and the team scored 24 points and you still say it was nothing special??? :confused:
For the record I watched the game on TV - What I saw was an example of how a guy can play his positon pretty well and make an offense work. More to the point is that the team scored 24 points in a half - but only 6 more under the coaches playcalling - To me it showed that DC had talent and can make plays when given a chance. The coaching in the second half reflected it alot - the playcalling was scaled down tremendousely and par for the course Palmer/Capers tried to play the secodn half "Not to lose - instead of Playing to win". Honestly I'm not sure what your gripe is Wonger - allthough I would hazard a guess it comes from VY man-love/Carr-hater disease. :rolleyes: :sarcasm:

and also for the record - I havent sent you hate mail or bad rep just because were disagreeing like some other folks do.

Gee... thanks. I just can't get enough hate mail or bad rep points for stating that Carr is a sub-par NFL quarterback.

Actually, Palmer was fired about 3 months before the Arizona game.

If handing off to a running back and throwing a bunch of hitch passes for 100 whole yards and zero touchdowns is your idea of a "special" performance...
 
the wonger need food said:
If handing off to a running back and throwing a bunch of hitch passes for 100 whole yards and zero touchdowns is your idea of a "special" performance...


Well, hand offs and hitches are all Pendry's playbook consisted of. In 2004 David Carr had the highest completion percentage of deep balls in the NFL. Recall the Minnesota game? I don't remember nothing but handoffs and hooks in that one.
 
dalemurphy said:
Well, hand offs and hitches are all Pendry's playbook consisted of. In 2004 David Carr had the highest completion percentage of deep balls in the NFL. Recall the Minnesota game? I don't remember nothing but handoffs and hooks in that one.

Carr has one above average half his entire career and the apologists chomp at the bit to site it... over and over again...
 
"In 2004 David Carr had the highest completion percentage of deep balls in the NFL"

Thats not saying much if he threw the fewest--got a link/source?
 
You know a guys stinks when fans consider his most prolific day was when he threw for 100 yrds in the first half.... Oh and if you are going to claim Carr as leading in any category for NFL QB's you better have a link to back that up because saying saying David Carr leads the NFL in completing Deep Balls makes me think your experience with Madden 2006 has gone to the point off a loss from reality, maybe you should seek psychological help.
 
Special or not... whoopty. I did enjoy the game alot more when it was that half that Carr apparently called the plays. Whether it was deep passes, handoffs, laterals, granny shots... whatever - I enjoyed it because then the team seemed to move down the field as a cohesive unit on the same page and was moving pretty easily.

That's what I'm looking for this year. The team to be on the same page, dominating teams they should, playing quality against better teams, quality coaching, and a loud home field advantage.
 
A4toZ said:
Special or not... whoopty. I did enjoy the game alot more when it was that half that Carr apparently called the plays. Whether it was deep passes, handoffs, laterals, granny shots... whatever - I enjoyed it because then the team seemed to move down the field as a cohesive unit on the same page and was moving pretty easily.

That's what I'm looking for this year. The team to be on the same page, dominating teams they should, playing quality against better teams, quality coaching, and a loud home field advantage.

Yes, the press, team members and others were commenting how they felt they were a part of it and David was reacting to the input he was receiving from his players coming back to the huddle. Yep, it was a team and they moved the ball. They reacted to what the other team was doing defensively. I want a QB calling the play not the coach, particularly given who was calling them in the past. I'm just old fashioned about that.
 
I don't care if David Carr is special or not. He doesn't have to be an All-Pro year after year. He doesn't even have to be a Pro Bowler year after year. But to say David Carr sucks is hogwash. He improved year to year in our first 3 seasons. Almost everyone on our team took a step back last season. Domanick Davis had a worse season that one the before. Andre Johnson had an even worse year than his rookie season. Our offensive line..well it's hard to tell if they got worse because they've been so crappy every single year. Our defense was one of the worst in the NFL. It's a team game. David Carr is not solely to blame on last year's nightmare of a season. Look at who David Carr had around him. Mark Breuner and Marcellus Rivers at tight end. Oooo, that makes NFL defenses shiver. Corey Bradford and Jabar Gaffney to take pressure off of Andre Johnson. You could join Bradford and Gaffney's talent together, and they still won't be a #2 reciever. We had Victor Riley start half of our games at tackle last season. Victory Riley is the Matt Stevens of our offense. Do you remember how bad Matt Stevens was? Riley wasn't much better. David Carr can be a good QB for us and I'll be happy. Brad Johnson is a good QB. They won a Super Bowl in Tampa with them. Trent Dilfer and Kerry Collins both had teams that went to the Super Bowl. I think David Carr will turn into a very, very good QB, but you can win with a merely "good" QB on your team.
 
TexanSam said:
...Almost everyone on our team took a step back last season...

Which is the reason I don't give last season much weight when evaluating our roster players. Everything was a mess.
 
trutxn said:
Vietnamese dudes, Korean dudes, and the mayor's son are not Vince.


Yes, we all get the fact that you love VY.
I'm not usually bored enough to go through other people's past posts, but I did go through yours.
You have 27 total posts at this time, and at least 18 of them mention VY (I wouldn't be surprised if I missed one or two additional ones).
I admire your loyalty, but it is hard to think that you might have any unbiased opinion with a skewed ratio like that.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
I want a QB calling the play not the coach, particularly given who was calling them in the past. I'm just old fashioned about that.

That's old fashioned??

To think Parcells, Gibbs, Shanahan, Holmgren, Martz, Green, Gruden........ all of them been doing it wrong for so long....
 
TexanSam said:
I don't care if David Carr is special or not. He doesn't have to be an All-Pro year after year. He doesn't even have to be a Pro Bowler year after year. But to say David Carr sucks is hogwash. He improved year to year in our first 3 seasons. Almost everyone on our team took a step back last season. Domanick Davis had a worse season that one the before. Andre Johnson had an even worse year than his rookie season. Our offensive line..well it's hard to tell if they got worse because they've been so crappy every single year. Our defense was one of the worst in the NFL. It's a team game. David Carr is not solely to blame on last year's nightmare of a season. Look at who David Carr had around him. Mark Breuner and Marcellus Rivers at tight end. Oooo, that makes NFL defenses shiver. Corey Bradford and Jabar Gaffney to take pressure off of Andre Johnson. You could join Bradford and Gaffney's talent together, and they still won't be a #2 reciever. We had Victor Riley start half of our games at tackle last season. Victory Riley is the Matt Stevens of our offense. Do you remember how bad Matt Stevens was? Riley wasn't much better. David Carr can be a good QB for us and I'll be happy. Brad Johnson is a good QB. They won a Super Bowl in Tampa with them. Trent Dilfer and Kerry Collins both had teams that went to the Super Bowl. I think David Carr will turn into a very, very good QB, but you can win with a merely "good" QB on your team.

Your post is spot on. This is why many are scratching their heads to why we pay him 7+ million a year when we could pay a veteran QB half of the jack and spend those dollars elsewhere.
 
TexanSam said:
I don't care if David Carr is special or not. He doesn't have to be an All-Pro year after year. He doesn't even have to be a Pro Bowler year after year. But to say David Carr sucks is hogwash. He improved year to year in our first 3 seasons.

No, he doesn't have to be an All-Pro, but it would be nice if he looked like an average NFL QB with any kind of consistency.

I would disagree that he improved in year 3. He started his regression half way thru the 2004 season and had a terrible second half of that season. It continued into 2005.
 
TexanSam said:
I don't care if David Carr is special or not. He doesn't have to be an All-Pro year after year. He doesn't even have to be a Pro Bowler year after year. But to say David Carr sucks is hogwash. He improved year to year in our first 3 seasons. Almost everyone on our team took a step back last season. Domanick Davis had a worse season that one the before.
Domanick Davis was ranked 9th amoung all NFL runningbacks last year.... he was ranked 15th, in 2004 and 19ththe year before that, his Rookie Year.

DD is a stud.
 
thunderkyss said:
Domanick Davis was ranked 9th amoung all NFL runningbacks last year.... he was ranked 15th, in 2004 and 19ththe year before that, his Rookie Year.

DD is a stud.

I think he was pointing out that DD had his lowest yardage output and was on the sideline for much of last season. He had his statistically worst season because of injuries.
 
the wonger need food said:
No, he doesn't have to be an All-Pro, but it would be nice if he looked like an average NFL QB with any kind of consistency.

I would disagree that he improved in year 3. He started his regression half way thru the 2004 season and had a terrible second half of that season. It continued into 2005.

I'm guessing you dont recall anything changing in 2004 that might have helped that decline in the second half of the season then?? No injuries, Player cahnges or Perhaps a blocking scheme change that lead to a rise in sacks and loss of games because of confusion??

Its fairly obvious to me yours and many others distaste for DC - but at least lets agree on the facts before we move forward.

IMO David has played pretty average for the most part his whole career in the nfl. What has been below average is the teams ability to protect him. Protect him enough so he could develop adequate pocket presence and avoid some sacks. Between signal caller changes, blocking scheme changes, coach and player changes etc... for a young QB he's had to overcome alot - The performance of the team is and should certainly not all be on his shoulder's. But because he is the QB and face of the franchise he has to accept the blame - thats where I think DC needs to man up more - He needs to take this season square on the chin and get up and fight to take this team to the next level and IMO your going to see a very different DC this year because of it. He's always been a passing QB his whole career even at Fresno and then when he got to this team we had a run -ball control minded coach who under-utilized and ignored the talent he had on the team and forced them all to fall in line to the point it cost him his job. DC lit it up at Fresno and set passing records but has been held back thus far by lack of protection and playcalling which has hindered his development overall.

His play at times and esp in that one game [Arizona] reminded me of one of the most prolific and best QB's ever to play - Joe Montana - or what I called "Average Joe". His stats were pretty average for most of the year, but bottom line more than anything - he was efficient at running the offense. Thats why I felt that game with Arizona was special for DC because rather than trying to force big plays into the game - DC sat back and just ran the offense and made it work. Not because it was his biggest passing day or the day he scored the most TD's on. That day in Arizona there were alot of short passes and runs - Get used to it - because thats exactly what Kubes is got coming - The West coast Offense thrives on that stuff and is what took Montana, Young, and Elway to the superbowl. It wasnt the big spectacular plays on the highlight reels - Those are nice, but those are not usually what win you the game - Those alot of times are desperation heaves to catch up. But the WCO thrives with a calm cool efficient QB just running the offense. IMO thats what wins the games and got those teams to the championships. By their QB's being efficient and just playing inside the scheme and not trying to force anything. By doing just that they racked up score after score. The same thing happenened with DC and our squad against Arizona.

Does DC have things he needs to improve on - Sure - Just about every player on the squad does after a 2-14 season. But I think its hogwash to say DC is not an average NFL QB and I hope to see the "Wonger" along with some others getting full "Eating some Crow" this year.

:redtowel:
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Your post is spot on. This is why many are scratching their heads to why we pay him 7+ million a year when we could pay a veteran QB half of the jack and spend those dollars elsewhere.

Remember though that Mort was tossing the #1 overall pick into the evaluation.

It's reasonable to expect to get a guy that is at least in the running for an alt spot on the Pro-Bowl roster with a top ten pick.

so IF ( emphasis on the IF )
He does not play at the pro-bowl level ( or alt pro-bowl level )
THEN
You should cut and bail. Get a cheaper "good" Johnson/Dilfer and spend the extra 4-5 million on two better lineman or something.

Do you agree or disagree?

Why do you agree or disagree?
 
U4ikrob said:
I'm guessing you dont recall anything changing in 2004 that might have helped that decline in the second half of the season then?? No injuries, Player cahnges or Perhaps a blocking scheme change that lead to a rise in sacks and loss of games because of confusion??

Its fairly obvious to me yours and many others distaste for DC - but at least lets agree on the facts before we move forward.

Excuses, excuses. That's all the apologists have at this point.

I don't know if anyone has a "distaste" for DC. How could ya, he's a good human being. However, he is a below average NFL QB. I welcome facts and statistics that will prove otherwise. Excuses and sympathy fail to cut it after 4 years and several (wasted) million dollars.
 
U4ikrob said:
Does DC have things he needs to improve on - Sure - Just about every player on the squad does after a 2-14 season. But I think its hogwash to say DC is not an average NFL QB and I hope to see the "Wonger" along with some others getting full "Eating some Crow" this year.

:redtowel:

Overall a good post........ a lot of good points...... you need to post more often.


but I'll eat Crow, when David shows to be better than avg two years in a row. Then, I'll start to believe.

You've brought up some good points that seem reasonable to believe this could happen. You've mentioned he has some things he needs to work on.

but do you see he does things a 4th year QB shouldn't be doing??
 
U4ikrob said:
I'm guessing you dont recall anything changing in 2004 that might have helped that decline in the second half of the season then?? No injuries, Player cahnges or Perhaps a blocking scheme change that lead to a rise in sacks and loss of games because of confusion??

Its fairly obvious to me yours and many others distaste for DC - but at least lets agree on the facts before we move forward.


There are some things in your post with which I agree and some things with which I do not. However, if you're trying to convince wonger, forget it .... he's a Carr basher from way back .... even if Carr has an awesome year in 2006 it'll be because Kubiak's quarterback coaching skills helped him to overcome his obvious lack of ability and leadership skills ... right wonger?
 
chuckm said:
There are some things in your post with which I agree and some things with which I do not. However, if you're trying to convince wonger, forget it .... he's a Carr basher from way back .... even if Carr has an awesome year in 2006 it'll be because Kubiak's quarterback coaching skills helped him to overcome his obvious lack of ability and leadership skills ... right wonger?

No, I am a Carr realistic. I don't let his looks and character get in the way of my observations and critiques of him as a player.

Believe me, if Carr somehow breaks out and finally lives up to his alleged potential (and salary), I will be as happy as anyone else. I am a Texans fan first and whatever it takes for them to win I am all for. I just don't believe in giving any player a penny (much less 8 million dollars) for performing like Carr has the past 25 games just because he poses for magazines and is a good christian/family man.
 
the wonger need food said:
No, I am a Carr realistic. I don't let his looks and character get in the way of my observations and critiques of him as a player.

Believe me, if Carr somehow breaks out and finally lives up to his alleged potential (and salary), I will be as happy as anyone else. I am a Texans fan first and whatever it takes for them to win I am all for. I just don't believe in giving any player a penny (much less 8 million dollars) for performing like Carr has the past 25 games just because he poses for magazines and is a good christian/family man.


Well count me in as one that thinks he hasn't lived up to his potential. However, our differences begin when we try to explain why. Has he made crappy decisions? Absolutely. Has he ran out of bounds when he could've thrown the ball away? Yep. Has he been running for his life for the better part of his career? Yep.

I suppose that means I have a man-crush on him, or am enamored with his spirituality, or that I'm a Carr apologist, ..... or whatever.... Peace.
 
the wonger need food said:
No, I am a Carr realistic. I don't let his looks and character get in the way of my observations and critiques of him as a player.

Believe me, if Carr somehow breaks out and finally lives up to his alleged potential (and salary), I will be as happy as anyone else. I am a Texans fan first and whatever it takes for them to win I am all for. I just don't believe in giving any player a penny (much less 8 million dollars) for performing like Carr has the past 25 games just because he poses for magazines and is a good christian/family man.


Unfortunately, the $25 million is just the way rookie contracts work. Carr has too much "what if..." left in the tank to just let him go. The same thing will come up if we give a big contract to RB or Mario, there will be an extension clause put into the contract with a very large number attached to it.

Through the first three year Carr made marked improvement with very little help from coaches, from talent around him, and from the scheme. Playing to not lose is probably difficult for a guy with a cannon for an arm. (I doubt if even you doubt the physical aspects of his game...he is probably the best quarterback physically to come out in the past 5 years, including Mike Vick).

I've wiped last year from my mind, and we are now on year 4 of our 5 year plan. Playoffs 2007, with Carr at the helm.
 
TwinSisters said:
Remember though that Mort was tossing the #1 overall pick into the evaluation.

It's reasonable to expect to get a guy that is at least in the running for an alt spot on the Pro-Bowl roster with a top ten pick.

so IF ( emphasis on the IF )
He does not play at the pro-bowl level ( or alt pro-bowl level )
THEN
You should cut and bail. Get a cheaper "good" Johnson/Dilfer and spend the extra 4-5 million on two better lineman or something.

Do you agree or disagree?

Why do you agree or disagree?

DC is our QB this year and expect his growth in the new system to be persistently monitored by the staff. I have no idea what their timeline or metrics will look like to measure him, but I would expect that he will get a full year and then it will be decision time come June 1 of 2007.
 
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