I saw it already happening in the 2nd quarter long before Kubes went down.
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Case Keenum vs Andrew Luck
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
I saw it already happening in the 2nd quarter long before Kubes went down.
Exactly!
ThaJokaa
True Texans Fan
Actually he has clearly stated that he only plans the 1st 15/20 plays of each half
I believe that he means that stylewise this was Texans have a lead so we are largely going to run the ball with some play action passing, not that Kubes would run these exact plays versus what exact plays that Dennison ran
Trying to be funny while the coach is still in the hospital?
Seriously one of the most classless statements made in this forum, and that says a lot after a decade of existence.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
people need to calm down...Keenum didn't outplay luck...hell both guys played about the same when you consider the totality of the circumstances they had to deal with.
Keenum:
- lost Foster at the beginning of the game but we still ran it pretty good with Tate & Johnson....
-Fat Randy & ST didn't have a good day, but they actually did prevent Indy from scoring 3 early with the FG block.
-The defense was actually damn good until the 2nd half started
-I'm not putting too much into Kubiak thing. anyone who has watched this team over the years knows that they did what they always do when they have a lead...try to run clock & get conservative.
Luck:
-didn't have his main guy Reggie Wayne & it clearly effected the offense...Also lost his #2 WR Heyward-Bey in the middle of the game too.
-He basically had no run game to speak of
-& his o-line was terrible for most of the night. a number of the plays he made came within a split second of Watt or some other defender knocking the piss out of him.
-he also had a few drops
The ref calls were a draw..both teams had bad calls against them.
Keenum made most of his plays early in the 1st half, Luck made most of his late in the 2nd half.
If you take away the last drive where keenum tacked on 30 more passing yards their stats look about the same.
Keenum:
- lost Foster at the beginning of the game but we still ran it pretty good with Tate & Johnson....
-Fat Randy & ST didn't have a good day, but they actually did prevent Indy from scoring 3 early with the FG block.
-The defense was actually damn good until the 2nd half started
-I'm not putting too much into Kubiak thing. anyone who has watched this team over the years knows that they did what they always do when they have a lead...try to run clock & get conservative.
Luck:
-didn't have his main guy Reggie Wayne & it clearly effected the offense...Also lost his #2 WR Heyward-Bey in the middle of the game too.
-He basically had no run game to speak of
-& his o-line was terrible for most of the night. a number of the plays he made came within a split second of Watt or some other defender knocking the piss out of him.
-he also had a few drops
The ref calls were a draw..both teams had bad calls against them.
Keenum made most of his plays early in the 1st half, Luck made most of his late in the 2nd half.
If you take away the last drive where keenum tacked on 30 more passing yards their stats look about the same.
speedfreek
All Pro
>people need to calm down...Keenum didn't outplay luck...hell both guys played about the same when you consider the totality of the circumstances they had to deal with.
So you're saying an UDFA in only his second start with two offensive
starters missing and no head coach in the second half played about
the same as the undisputed "second coming" of Peyton Manning who
is in his second year playing in the same offensive system and starting
both years?
Ok.. I'll take that..
TJ
So you're saying an UDFA in only his second start with two offensive
starters missing and no head coach in the second half played about
the same as the undisputed "second coming" of Peyton Manning who
is in his second year playing in the same offensive system and starting
both years?
Ok.. I'll take that..
TJ
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
What you all should want is Kubiak to be back coaching as soon as possible. Why? Say what you want about Kubiak, he can groom a QB and maximize his strengths. Schaub never had a big arm, so underneath and playaction was his strengths. Keenum has a different skill set that allows Kubiak to exploit his fearlessness and deep ball touch. Keenum had skills, but Kubiak has tuned them, in about a year and half, for the pro game. If Keenum can continue to grow as the starter for the rest of this year, it will help the team hit the ground running next year.
For Kubiak, it is a kid with a new toy. Once you realize how good it is, you never want to put it down.
For Kubiak, it is a kid with a new toy. Once you realize how good it is, you never want to put it down.
Vance87
All Pro
You mean take away the last drive where he drove us down the field with 30 seconds and no timeouts to give our stupid fat FG kicker a chance to tie the game? OK.
speedfreek
All Pro
This is exactly what I have been trying to put into words today.
And why I am super depressed that Gary may have had a
"coaching career" ending stroke..
TJ
And why I am super depressed that Gary may have had a
"coaching career" ending stroke..
TJ
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Draft status & hype have 0 to do with it. Keenum doesn't get extra points b/c he wasn't drafted...Even though Keenum's been in the league for 2 years & running the same system like Luck too.
All things considered, we all should be happy he went toe to toe with 1 of the best young qb's in the game.
Exascor
Veteran
Of course Keenum gets "extra points" for being undrafted vs the #1 pick in the draft. Seriously...read that again. Undrafted vs 1st pick in the draft.
Also, can you really equate Luck who ran this same Colts offense while in Stanford to Keenum who didn't get first team reps in this offense until 3 days before his first start?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
you only take it away b/c luck wouldn't have had a chance to respond b/c it was the final drive of the game...besides, lots of qb's good & bad can do what he did that last drive.... all he did was complete 2 short passes for a total of 30 yards that moved us in range for a long 55 yard fg....& that would've only tied it.
drs23
Veteran
I won't attack you or your character nor your right to post as you please. I understand you're a Matt guy and that's cool. I was a staunch Matt supporter as well but there came a time when his play just became indefensible and that time happens to coincide with his meltdown which started last year. I didn't follow Keenum's collegiate career but had certainly heard the name. I'm not here to anoint him the Team Savior and I had my doubts but no one can legitimately deny that Case Keenum played his first two games against two of the top teams the AFC has to offer and presented very well. If he keeps progressing I see no reason that he can't rise with the cream. He's got my full support from here on out. I feel badly for Schaub. On the sidelines all night, wearing his little helmet the whole time just waiting... I never really thought much about him not being that verbal leader on the sidelines but I really chubbed at seeing Case working the team, on both sides of the ball. You could, at least I could tell the whole team was excited to be a part of what was happening. I watched as JJ Watt's frown and scowls from the last several games replaced with smiles and excitement. How long has it been since you've saw AJ giddy as a kid at christmas? Just a few of the clues that the team is behind him and has fully accepted and bought in. If they can then why can't we? Or perhaps more specifically, Fish, you?
Case could of course, flame out and I think there are a few on here that would revelle in it. I hope he continues to ascend and is mentioned in the same breath with Arian Foster as UDFA "finds" that the Texans are able to "uncover".
All of this is just my opinion but I'm excited to watch and hope #7 continues to grow and become the greatest UDFA QB to ever pull on a jockstrap.
Go Texans!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Dude, all the shotgun we've been running since he has been starting....2 zone read plays yesterday... a number of the passing plays he's been running are all things he did at UofH.....or are a close derivative of things he did there. They are purposely designed or implemented into our gameplan to make him feel comfy...ultimately, both guys are getting/got some form of home cooking.
The circumstances by which they came into the league don't matter when the goal for both is the same..1 guy came into the league ready to play, another came into the league and needed a year to develop before he was ready...doesn't matter in the end...if you can play, you can play & some guys need time to develop before they can play on this level...Do you think Keenum could've come in as a rookie & did what Luck did? If not, then we should give extra credit to Luck for being able to do that b/c alot of players (let alone qbs) can't do that....no matter where they were taken.
At the end of the day draft status will hardly be part of the narrative if they wind up matching up against each other in the years to come...if Keenum continues to develop that is & neither guy gets a career ending injury.
The question is, will you still be giving Keenum extra credit if he continues to ascend in the future b/c he's an undrafted FA every time he matches up against a qb who was drafted?.....which will be pretty much every qb he faces going forward.
What about making extra excuses up for him b/c he's an undrafted FA if he begins to slump in the future?
klockWork
Rookie
Is there a purgatory section to throw this thread somewhere?
Vance87
All Pro
Everything after "besides" is worthless.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
yeah b/c no 1st or 2nd string qb in the NFL could complete 2 passes for 30 yards and move his team just inside fg range.....
drs23
Veteran
yeah b/c no 1st or 2nd string qb in the NFL could complete 2 passes for 30 yards and move his team just inside fg range.....
I'm not so convinced this kicker has a "fg range".
Exascor
Veteran
Ever heard of the term "underdog"? Keenum is the underdog right now. He gets "extra credit" when things go good. He gets more forgiveness when things go bad. It's the same thing as when a rookie makes a great play it's "look at what that rookie was able to do" or when it's bad it's a "rookie" mistake. Will/should it last? No. Is Keenum as good as Luck right now? Too soon to compare. You are right though. The bottom line goal is to win. Next year, Keenum doesn't get the same treatment. He may have to compete with someone for a starting job. He'll be judged on a more level playing field.
For this year though...undrafted free agent, inactive for EVERY game since he's been in the league, that nobody thought would EVER start just had the BEST QB rating in their first 2 starts for a QB in NFL history. That, is unbelievable.
At some point, draft status stops mattering. Exhibit A: JaMarcus Russell. Exhibit B: Kurt Warner. Heck, even Tom Brady (aka St. Tom the Perfect to the football media) was a 6th round pick.
If Warner had a bad game well into his career, people wouldn't be bringing up his status as a UDFA who came up as an Arena player and a grocery clerk after college.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah....Warner's story to me is literally the NFL version of hitting the lottery. I mean at least Keenum had all the passing stats & records coming out of college that people can point to. Nothing about Warner coming out of college could've foreshadowed what he wound up doing in the NFL. The guy was 3rd string on a division II college team until his sr. year for crying out loud!
His story is so improbable, if someone told you about it before it actually happened, you'd think they were telling you about an upcoming movie instead of a guy's actual career.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Isn't April Fools in the spring?
I'm thinking this is the reason Wade Phillips defense appears to trail off in their 2nd & 3rd seasons.
Season 1, nobody expects anything spectacular. Offense plays to score on every down. Year two, the HC believes he can punt more often, play the field position game. Year three, we go sign the best punter in the league, try to improve the field position game & play more not to lose than we had in the past.
& Wade's smallish front line, pressure defense, man coverage just can't maintain the perceived level of greatness if they don't have the QB in a must throw, pressured to score game.
This game against Indy looked just like the Seattle game. 1st half was ours, we dominated on both sides of the ball. 2nd half, even though I don't think the offense was scaled back, I don't think the play calling changed much, converting on third downs was approached with a lower sense of urgency, because the defense was playing well.
& they just couldn't maintain. They did fine in the 3rd qtr, but in the 4th when it seemed like we took it down another level on third down, they allowed what 21 points?
I know special teams is a joke & they've become our scapegoat, but our offense needs to do a better job of scoring in the second half & our defense needs to do a better job of preventing 2nd half scores.
& our kicker needs to be replaced.
Kareem Jackson don't play.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Was that before or after AJ's 3rd touchdown?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
Against NFL-caliber opponents, you can almost never decide to let your offense quit after one half. Too many three-and-outs or short possessions and even a strong defense will get tired from being on the field way too long.
We've seen that in a LOT of Texans games in the entire Kubiak era. How many times has a dominant first half been followed up by a second half where the Texans were still the better team? I'll be honest -- I can't think of a single example.
fiasco west
All Pro
I'm surprised that no one is really talking about how disappointing the defense has been this year. It seems people just brush it off and put all the blame on the offense, but if your defense is supposed to be so good you don't let another team score TD after TD to get the lead.
That's why I'm fine with total clean. Wade's defenses have a history of regressing and we even see it in game that teams adjust see what Wade is doing and there is never a adjustment back. At some point during the Colts come back the defense has to make a play, make a big stop.
Pretty sure most DC, great players will say that the offense put up enough points to win that game.
Of course they could have always put up more and that would have been nice but the blame goes all around for me.
Dishman
Miss Ya Blue
The team under Kubiak has been notorious for NOT playing all 4 quarters. The Pats vs. Steelers game was a good example over the weekend of why an offense can't let up. The Steelers kept clawing back against the Pats to the extent that that Pats had to score something like 55 points to win.
I agree to a point. But these Kubiak-era Texans have always had the same tendency: When you dominate the first half, you let up in the second half. Your offense goes vanilla, stops doing what was working in the first half (or fails to adjust to the opponent's adjustments) and three-and-outs too much.
We're not talking about a Top 10 college team against a weak FCS team. This is the NFL and there's much more parity in terms of talent (yes, even the Jaguars and Bucs). You can let almost any team back in the game by playing "not to lose". My point here is.... would Wade's defense be a problem in a second half with a big lead if the offense kept doing what was working in the first half? If not, how much of that is Wade's fault?
(That said, I like Wade as a DC but he's a terrible head coach. He's a perfect example of the Peter Principle.)
That's nothing new. There's a difference between quitting & playing for field position & there's nothing wrong with playing for field position if you're built for it... & we are. We need to be able to run the ball when they know we're going to run the ball.
Of course in a game when it isn't working, your starting running back left the game, your back up has 4 broken ribs, & your third string guy was signed off someone else's practice squad two weeks ago, you call a better game.
Play to your strengths, & throw the ball. & while Keenum made some big plays in the two TE, two back sets, the offense looked much better with 3 & 4 WRs.
Exception to the rule & all, but the one year Ben Tate lived up to his draft status, we did what we wanted all year long. That game plan got Tj Yates into the play-offs & won a play off game.
We don't have that now... but someone at Reliant thinks we do.
With that in mind. I saw at least one snap where Graham started in the backfield, but was later motioned out to the slot.
I thought that was due to the fact that our RBs aren't up to snuff at the moment. But, I thought that would be a nice wrinkle in our offense. I'd never hand the ball off to him, but we can use him for protection & as a receiver out of the backfield.
Or even Greg Jones. When we've got 4 receivers, we need someone back there who can pick up the blitz & if Arian is going to be questionable the rest of the year, we've either got to get DJ or Karim up to speed on blitz pick-ups, or use Greg Jones/Byrne/Graham.
ST gave the Colts the ball at their 42 to start the half.
The Colts only gained 26 yards on that drive, to the Texans 32.
Ed Reed then committed the stupid penalty on third and six on an incompletion.
Instead of a 50-yd FG try, the Colts got a 35-yd cheap shot.
ST and Reed cost the Texans 3 points here.
The Texans then got the ball at their 13.
They had to march 62 yards to earn a 43-yd FG by Bullock.
A false start on Graham and a 2-yd loss by Tate also hurt the drive.
The Colts got the ball at their 22 and marched downfield to the Texans 20.
On third and 5, Sharpton was called for that penalty on yet another incompletion by Luck.
Instead of a FG, the Colts ended up with a TD.
The Texans then go 55 yards (starting at their 20) before Bullock missed the 43-yarder.
ST team failed again.
The Colts then got the ball at their 33 due to the missed FG try; they needed only 2 plays to score.
Defense failed.
With 9:46 to go, the Texans got the ball at their 20.
On third and seven, the ref robbed the Texans of a third down conversion
when they reverse the catch by AJ.
Lechler then punted the ball for 19 yards to give the Colts the ball at their 48.
ST failed again.
The Colts scored and tacked on the 2-point conversion.
Defense failed.
The offense then failed for the first time when the Colts had the perfect D calls on 3 consecutive play (after a 25-yd completion to AJ.)
It looked like the Colts knew exactly what the Texans were about to run.
Lechler punted the ball with the Colts calling fair catch at their 16.
They burned all the Texans time-outs before punting.
Martin returned it for 20 yards, but a holding call on Mack brought the ball back to the Texans 33; the Texans would have had the ball in Colts territory, on the 47yd line or so.
ST failed again.
With 44 seconds left, the Texans managed 4 plays (including the spike) for 30 yards before the last missed by Bullock.
Tell me where the problems lie?
The Colts only gained 26 yards on that drive, to the Texans 32.
Ed Reed then committed the stupid penalty on third and six on an incompletion.
Instead of a 50-yd FG try, the Colts got a 35-yd cheap shot.
ST and Reed cost the Texans 3 points here.
The Texans then got the ball at their 13.
They had to march 62 yards to earn a 43-yd FG by Bullock.
A false start on Graham and a 2-yd loss by Tate also hurt the drive.
The Colts got the ball at their 22 and marched downfield to the Texans 20.
On third and 5, Sharpton was called for that penalty on yet another incompletion by Luck.
Instead of a FG, the Colts ended up with a TD.
The Texans then go 55 yards (starting at their 20) before Bullock missed the 43-yarder.
ST team failed again.
The Colts then got the ball at their 33 due to the missed FG try; they needed only 2 plays to score.
Defense failed.
With 9:46 to go, the Texans got the ball at their 20.
On third and seven, the ref robbed the Texans of a third down conversion
when they reverse the catch by AJ.
Lechler then punted the ball for 19 yards to give the Colts the ball at their 48.
ST failed again.
The Colts scored and tacked on the 2-point conversion.
Defense failed.
The offense then failed for the first time when the Colts had the perfect D calls on 3 consecutive play (after a 25-yd completion to AJ.)
It looked like the Colts knew exactly what the Texans were about to run.
Lechler punted the ball with the Colts calling fair catch at their 16.
They burned all the Texans time-outs before punting.
Martin returned it for 20 yards, but a holding call on Mack brought the ball back to the Texans 33; the Texans would have had the ball in Colts territory, on the 47yd line or so.
ST failed again.
With 44 seconds left, the Texans managed 4 plays (including the spike) for 30 yards before the last missed by Bullock.
Tell me where the problems lie?
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Fire Marciano & Randy Bullock....in the offseason (we need high picks).
I agree. The bleating herd saying "no. 1 defense" is merely putting sprinkles on a dog turd. It's not a brownie. It's poo..with sprinkles on it.
18 points should be a lead that a so-called "no. 1 defense" can protect. Instead, they let the Colts catch up fairly easy.
But really, like you mentioned, this is nothing new with Wade. His history repeats itself over and over again. He gets the benefit of the doubt because of his family ties to this city, but any other DC would be fair game to criticize for the same results.
NO doubt.
What seemed promising at one time.... seems like a waste of time now.
But when it's all said & done, we're looking for a QB that can put this team on the level that Luck has his team. If we're going to win the division ever again, we're going to need a QB that this team believes in like that team does.
It will be interesting to see how Luck does against the Chiefs. Still don't think the Colts will make it far, but if they get the right opponents in the playoffs, they may make it to the AFC Championship game.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
This thread is so awkwardly painful. I just learned about the Dunning-Kruger Effect the other day, and this is a real life representation of that.
Bless your hearts.
Bless your hearts.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Nope, the Vodka flowed strongly through this one.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
0 wins vs 20 wins