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Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB (Yates named #2)

2012Champs said:
Schaub is far better than the other two

Maybe you should hope the best for tj and case vs top tier Ds in the nfl
Click to expand...

far better in the pre-season? schaub wasn't all that great actually in term of pre-season. schaub is superior at this point in time and he's our guy but to say that TJ and Case weren't impressive is off.

there's a reason why this thread is one of the longest current threads.
 
legacy_gt said:
far better in the pre-season? schaub wasn't all that great actually in term of pre-season. schaub is superior at this point in time and he's our guy but to say that TJ and Case weren't impressive is off.

there's a reason why this thread is one of the longest current threads.
Click to expand...



If Yates and Case were playing against first teamers Id put more weight on their performance however this is not the case.

Case and his UoH tie is a reason this thread is so long, its the off season two and three people love to hate Schuab
 
I have no idea what Kubiak saw in Schaub to make him think he could be a starter in this league. Might have been more of his QB Guru "hubris" for all I know.... "Get me anybody but Carr Damgnbit!!!"

Matt's best game before the trade was an 18 of 34, 298 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT with a 112 passer rating against the 26th rank defense in the regular season.

Yate's best game to date was an 11 for 20, 159 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT with a 97 passer rating against the 7th rank defense in the play offs.

Case's best game so far was an 11 for 18, 150 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT with a 106.2 passer rating against Miami's second team defense in the preseason.


So, Kubiak has as much information on Tj that he had on Matt before making Matt the starter sight unseen, before even talking to him, so in that respect, he's probably got more info on both Tj & Case than he had on Matt.

Do I think Yates/Keenum can be a starter in this league? No, but I think they've each earned a shot & both give me reason to believe they can be. We've got 7 regular season games where Yates wasn't asked to do a whole lot, but he did what he was asked well, most of the time. We've got a good play off game from Yates & a horrible game (where he was asked to do a lot more than previous games).

Case is the bigger unknown. I don't think there is anything that can really prepare a kid for being an NFL starting QB. You do the best you can, but then you have to throw them out there & see what they're made of. Who'd have thunk Jeff Garcia would have a better career than Ryan Leaf?
 
thunderkyss said:
I have no idea what Kubiak saw in Schaub to make him think he could be a starter in this league. Might have been more of his QB Guru "hubris" for all I know.... "Get me anybody but Carr Damgnbit!!!"

Matt's best game before the trade was an 18 of 34, 298 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT with a 112 passer rating against the 26th rank defense in the regular season.
Click to expand...

LOL - yeah, against the defending SB champs. It wasn't just Kubiak who saw something in Schaub. There were reports multiple teams offered 1st round picks the year before the Texans traded for him.
 
DocBar said:
Both played very well in preseason, both had very good command of the offense and both made plays with their legs when the play broke down.

Maybe you've been watching the Texans too closely and think that WR's should have to slow down, come back to the ball or stop to make a catch and that QB's should assume the fetal position at the mere whiff of pressure.

What would a QB have to do to impress you? Be drafted early in the 1st round? Have a lot of hoopla about them coming out of college?
Click to expand...

Not saying that these are the most important criteria to me but I can say it sure don't hurt. And before you pounce, not saying it helps either. Leaf, Russell, list of stinkers ad infinum...
 
infantrycak said:
LOL - yeah, against the defending SB champs. It wasn't just Kubiak who saw something in Schaub. There were reports multiple teams offered 1st round picks the year before the Texans traded for him.
Click to expand...

Kelly Holcombe had a "nice" game against the Pats that year as well.


Gus Frerotte threw for 360 yards & 2 TDs (1 INT) against them.
 
thunderkyss said:
Kelly Holcombe had a "nice" game against the Pats that year as well.


Gus Frerotte threw for 360 yards & 2 TDs (1 INT) against them.
Click to expand...

And that is why scouts watch games, not just box score watch. I can't remember how Schaub, Holcomb, and Frerotte looked against the Pats that year. But I do remember that Schaub was being touted as a future NFL starting QB, and that multiple teams were interested. I dont remember that about the other two.
 
rmartin65 said:
And that is why scouts watch games, not just box score watch. I can't remember how Schaub, Holcomb, and Frerotte looked against the Pats that year. But I do remember that Schaub was being touted as a future NFL starting QB, and that multiple teams were interested. I dont remember that about the other two.
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My point was that 1 game couldn't have been all there was to Kubiak's decision. Had to be more.
 
I think this team only needs a starter and a solid backup at the QB + a decent guy on PS like Keenum last season or a top notch draft pick on roster learning behind other two. Towards end of this season as QBs go down and teams gear up for the play offs (or desperately try to remain in the race) I hope for a trade of Yates. Let's use our surplus to strengthen another spot or two in 2014 draft.

I enjoy being this deep at a prime position but not when we have issues elsewhere.
 
thunderkyss said:
Kelly Holcombe had a "nice" game against the Pats that year as well.


Gus Frerotte threw for 360 yards & 2 TDs (1 INT) against them.
Click to expand...

Do you just randomly pull stuff up and call it the same? 1st off Holcomb's game wasn't close to the same. 2nd you are comparing an injury plagued QB in his 10th season on his way out of the league with a young buck stuck behind the highest paid player in football. Similarly Frerotte was in his 12th year, had already been judged and was on his way out of the league.
 
infantrycak said:
Do you just randomly pull stuff up and call it the same? 1st off Holcomb's game wasn't close to the same. 2nd you are comparing an injury plagued QB in his 10th season on his way out of the league with a young buck stuck behind the highest paid player in football. Similarly Frerotte was in his 12th year, had already been judged and was on his way out of the league.
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That's the only point that was relevant. A good game against that New England defense (regardless of the fact that they had just won the Super Bowl) does not qualify one as an instant, sight-unseen, starter.




Are you calling Schaub injury plagued?
 
badboy said:
I think this team only needs a starter and a solid backup at the QB + a decent guy on PS like Keenum last season or a top notch draft pick on roster learning behind other two. Towards end of this season as QBs go down and teams gear up for the play offs (or desperately try to remain in the race) I hope for a trade of Yates. Let's use our surplus to strengthen another spot or two in 2014 draft.

I enjoy being this deep at a prime position but not when we have issues elsewhere.
Click to expand...

The trade deadline is somewhere around Halloween(week 8), so those injuries can't come to late in the season.
 
infantrycak said:
LOL - yeah, against the defending SB champs. It wasn't just Kubiak who saw something in Schaub. There were reports multiple teams offered 1st round picks the year before the Texans traded for him.
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I was curious about which QBs were available when Kubiak went out and got Schaub so I did a bit of "Googling"... This from Football's Future...

Top Quarterbacks
Matt Schaub, RFA, Atlanta Falcons
The free agent quarterback class is light in 2007, but teams in true need of a field general may be highly interested in Schaub. He has an NFL arm and has shown flashes of possibly being a legitimate quality starting quarterback. It is likely that just a handful of teams would aggressively pursue Schaub, but if someone is willing to pay decent money and forfeit a draft pick for Schaub, he could be lured away from his spot behind Michael Vick. In the end, Schaub’s chances of re-signing with the Falcons don’t look good, as Schaub will likely pursue a bigger role in another offense. A handful of teams could look for their starter in Atlanta.
Click to expand...

The next two guys they listed (and described) were Tim Rattay and Jeff Garcia. You can click the link to see the write-ups. The others they listed were...
Other Free Agent Quarterbacks

Drew Bledsoe, UFA, Dallas Cowboys
Aaron Brooks, UFA, Oakland Raiders
Rohan Davey, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Brad Johnson, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Shaun King, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
John Navarre, RFA, Arizona Cardinals
Anthony Wright, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
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That was all that there was to pick from when Smithiak decided - in 2007 - that Carr had to go. And no, neither Young nor Leinart were available at the time. ...lucky for us.
 
ObsiWan said:
That was all that there was to pick from when Smithiak decided - in 2007 - that Carr had to go. And no, neither Young nor Leinart were available at the time. ...lucky for us.
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Here were the 2007 draft picks:

2007
1 1 JaMarcus Russell Raiders Louisiana State
1 22 Brady Quinn Browns Notre Dame
2 4 Kevin Kolb Eagles Houston
2 8 John Beck Dolphins Brigham Young
2 11 Drew Stanton Lions Michigan State
3 29 Trent Edwards Bills Stanford
4 4 Isaiah Stanback Cowboys Washington
5 14 Jeff Rowe Bengals Nevada
5 37 Troy Smith Ravens Ohio State
6 31 Jordan Palmer Redskins Texas-El Paso
7 7 Tyler Thigpen Vikings Coastal Carolina
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Translation - a whole lotta nothing.
 
ObsiWan said:
That was all that there was to pick from when Smithiak decided - in 2007 - that Carr had to go. And no, neither Young nor Leinart were available at the time. ...lucky for us.
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I remember when Kubiak came & everyone was talking about drafting Reggie Bush. I didn't like that idea because I thought Reggie was not a 3 down back & I was confident DD would play another year.

I didn't know Mario Williams & I was open to drafting D'Brickshaw Ferguson. But I said if we're going to do something stupid, we should draft Vince Young because we're going to be looking to replace David Carr in a years time anyway. I've been called hard-headed before, but when they gave Carr that $8M I dropped the Vince Young thing.

Sure enough, we were looking to replace David Carr a year later.

But if we go even farther back, I wanted Kubiak to bring Jake Plummer, but we got screwed on that deal.

In hindsight, I have no problem saying their decision to get Schaub was handsdown the best decision they could have made.

Doesn't change the fact that I don't know what Kubiak saw that made him so confident to do it & I still doubt that New England game was it.
 
TEXANRED said:
I would. Has Schaub ever put together back to back years together playing every game?
Click to expand...

Just a hint for future reference - when asking questions in order to demonstrate your point, you might want to know the answer to those questions before you ask them.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The trade deadline is somewhere around Halloween(week 8), so those injuries can't come to late in the season.
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I should have said later this season. The NFL's trade deadline is the Tuesday following the 6th week of the regular season, which typically falls mid-October.
 
After seeing Chip Kelly's offense put up points against the skins,
and Kaepernic win games with SF and Wilson -- ditto with Seattle --
I just can't help but think what would the Texans look like with
Keenum running the Holgorsen more run balanced Air Raid he
ran in college.

I see all of these Oregon stats being shown on MNF, and Oregon
was not as fast or as productive (yards wise) as the Keenum cougars.

It would catch some teams by surprise to roll it out in the middle
of a game and use it intermittently with Kubiak's WCO.

I understand it is important for the young guys (Keenum and Yates)
to fully comprehend what Gary wants to do, but Gary needs to expand
his horizons. He's a good OC, but not the end-all be all of offensive
design.

Hopefully it's on his drawing board..

TJ
 
gafftop said:
Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.
Click to expand...

Schaub's release is just too slow, arm too weak, and no chance to make unscheduled play. He has to go through a long windup to throw the ball downfield. He never was mobile but ever since injury he is even worse.
Is he that old? I have seen enough to know he will be no better than at the end last year. Matt is Matt. Not his fault. The Texan's fault for thinking anything more. Just my opinion. May not even get to playoffs this year. We need the Qb to be more than manager because of our D being just above average not dominating.
 
gafftop said:
Schaub's release is just too slow, arm too weak, and no chance to make unscheduled play. He has to go through a long windup to throw the ball downfield. He never was mobile but ever since injury he is even worse.
Is he that old? I have seen enough to know he will be no better than at the end last year. Matt is Matt. Not his fault. The Texan's fault for thinking anything more. Just my opinion. May not even get to playoffs this year. We need the Qb to be more than manager because of our D being just above average not dominating.
Click to expand...

Appears you should spend less time agreeing with yourself and more time watching the game.
 
badboy said:
I should have said later this season. The NFL's trade deadline is the Tuesday following the 6th week of the regular season, which typically falls mid-October.
Click to expand...

ArlingtonTexan said:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8795630/2013-14-nfl-key-dates

showing oct 29
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Starting last season, the NFL and the NFLPA agreed to move the trade deadline to the Tuesday following week 8 (although last year, they had to extend it to Thursday because of hurricane Sandy).
 
gafftop said:
Schaub's release is just too slow, arm too weak, and no chance to make unscheduled play. He has to go through a long windup to throw the ball downfield. He never was mobile but ever since injury he is even worse.
Is he that old? I have seen enough to know he will be no better than at the end last year. Matt is Matt. Not his fault. The Texan's fault for thinking anything more. Just my opinion. May not even get to playoffs this year. We need the Qb to be more than manager because of our D being just above average not dominating.
Click to expand...

Matt is limiting us in ways you don't see. I am convinced GK would make different calls with someone else at QB.
 
gafftop said:
Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.
Click to expand...

This is reality. Only difference is MS does not even make smart decisions and now he may not not even be the best choice to get us into playoffs.
 
I wish the title of this thread was MS grabs early edge for 3 string backup because I cant take it anymore. Wilson running his A$$ off and Mat tripping over his own feet. Please coach make a change.
 
Team needs a spark and Case would give it. I have never seen AJ so upset with Schaub like he was when he was open in the back of the endzone but Schaub didn't set his feet and deliver. There were a couple of times today where he would make a quick throw on the run when he didn't have to. He wanted to look all badass after finally hitting a receiver in stride on that graham td, but then the real schaub started throwing the ball. Case needs to start.
 
gafftop said:
Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.
Click to expand...



Posted before regular season started
Still feel EXACTLY the same
 
gafftop said:
Original post page 40 near top. Did not remember I had reposted last week
Click to expand...

So what's the point? You want to make sure we know you're smarter than GK?

It's the popular opinion. Being right going against the grain is much more impressive. Stating the obvious proves nothing regardless how many times you re-post.

Especially about this, especially in regards to my opinion. I'd have benched Schaub after the pick 6 in Seattle & tried to win that game. Last week I would have made up my mind between Yates & Keenum, then designed the rest of the season around whoever I picked's strengths & weaknesses. Schaub would be the back-up. He would get an opportunity to get back on the field in the normal flow of the game the way a back-up would. Injury or benching.

He would understand that would be his only chance to ever "win" his job back. If he doesn't tear it up, not just mistake free, he's got to make plays. If not, he won't even be the back-up for the next game.
 
thunderkyss said:
So what's the point? You want to make sure we know you're smarter than GK?

It's the popular opinion. Being right going against the grain is much more impressive. Stating the obvious proves nothing regardless how many times you re-post.

Especially about this, especially in regards to my opinion. I'd have benched Schaub after the pick 6 in Seattle & tried to win that game. Last week I would have made up my mind between Yates & Keenum, then designed the rest of the season around whoever I picked's strengths & weaknesses. Schaub would be the back-up. He would get an opportunity to get back on the field in the normal flow of the game the way a back-up would. Injury or benching.

He would understand that would be his only chance to ever "win" his job back. If he doesn't tear it up, not just mistake free, he's got to make plays. If not, he won't even be the back-up for the next game.
Click to expand...

I would have made the change 4 weeks ago and made Keenum the starter not TJ. TJ is MS as far as mindset goes.
The writing was on the wall THEN. Schaub cannot make plays! You don't know this by now. Not MS's fault, just the way it is. With his QB skills now and his known weaknesses it is too much to expect him to make plays on a consistent basis.
 
gafftop said:
I would have made the change 4 weeks ago and made Keenum the starter not TJ. TJ is MS as far as mindset goes.
The writing was on the wall THEN. Schaub cannot make plays! You don't know this by now. Not MS's fault, just the way it is. With his QB skills now and his known weaknesses it is too much to expect him to make plays on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

I'm not a Matt Schaub fan, never have been.

But, what you're saying isn't exactly true. Matt made plays in the 4th qtr against San Diego. He made plays in the 4th & OT qtr against Tennessee. While he didn't make plays, he looked good playing above average for the first half of the Seattle game.

He's not consistent at it, he's not prolific in that department. But to say he can't??????

Like I said, I understand the frustration that our current goal is to try to get Matt Schaub back to 2011 form & that wasn't great. But it is what it is & if he gets back on track we'll win the division.... & we'll see what happens in the play offs.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not a Matt Schaub fan, never have been.

But, what you're saying isn't exactly true. Matt made plays in the 4th qtr against San Diego. He made plays in the 4th & OT qtr against Tennessee. While he didn't make plays, he looked good playing above average for the first half of the Seattle game.

He's not consistent at it, he's not prolific in that department. But to say he can't??????

Like I said, I understand the frustration that our current goal is to try to get Matt Schaub back to 2011 form & that wasn't great. But it is what it is & if he gets back on track we'll win the division.... & we'll see what happens in the play offs.
Click to expand...

I think we all know that ship has sailed.....last sunday's game was the absolute last thing that he could've had happen to him. That game, combined with the overall stretch he's on has taken pretty much all his confidence away....& everyone knows what happens when your confidence is gone...it usually doesn't come back. the little confidence he has left, is there b/c Gary keeps giving it to him. He's never getting back to 2011 form......you can just see it in his body language.....

He'll get the nod this week & i'll go ahead & predict it now, he won't throw another pick 6, but he'll be shaky throughout the game...you'll see alot of double clutching from him on the short stuff b/c he'll be 2nd guessing himself alot....

He's done....Done like a sausage link left on the BBQ pit too long.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not a Matt Schaub fan, never have been.

But, what you're saying isn't exactly true. Matt made plays in the 4th qtr against San Diego. He made plays in the 4th & OT qtr against Tennessee. While he didn't make plays, he looked good playing above average for the first half of the Seattle game.

He's not consistent at it, he's not prolific in that department. But to say he can't??????

Like I said, I understand the frustration that our current goal is to try to get Matt Schaub back to 2011 form & that wasn't great. But it is what it is & if he gets back on track we'll win the division.... & we'll see what happens in the play offs.
Click to expand...

Our definition of making plays is obviously different. Wilson made a play getting the first down at the end of the game on 4th down.

TK the bold is where we differ. I don't see Matt getting back to 2011 form. Getting back to 2011 form physically is not possible. It is not 2011 in our division anymore. Good possibility that 2011 MS in 2013 does not win division. Really doesn't matter because 2011 MS is gone.

You are right in saying "it is what it is" in that we have no control over anything.
Gk has that.
 
gafftop said:
Our definition of making plays is obviously different. Wilson made a play getting the first down at the end of the game on 4th down.

TK the bold is where we differ. I don't see Matt getting back to 2011 form. Getting back to 2011 form physically is not possible. It is not 2011 in our division anymore. Good possibility that 2011 MS in 2013 does not win division. Really doesn't matter because 2011 MS is gone.

You are right in saying "it is what it is" in that we have no control over anything.
Gk has that.
Click to expand...

I agree at least with 90% of what you're saying here. people need to remember, this guy's been in the league for 10 years already. There's is a natural slippage due to father time alone. Obviously through injuries that can be accelerated and in his case there's definitely some of that.....

I just think that as of this very moment, his issue isn't physical...despite what CnD says & has been saying. He's had a weak arm since we've had him here. He's been injured more than a few times since he's been here. Just through deductive reasoning you have to ask the question "why all of a sudden is his weak arm & physical limitations giving him issues that he was able to overcome earlier in his career?" It just doesn't make sense that it would become an issue 10 years into his career...especially without him having any significant arm issues.

Maybe his natural abilities were right on the floor of the "NFL physical talents" cut line & the little bit of slippage due to father time put him below the cut line....

Or maybe he's been in decline confidence wise since that 1st NE game & he finally bottomed out this year...this is what i believe...
 
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