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Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB (Yates named #2)

Congrats to TJ for being named #2 and congrats to both men for an excellent pre-season. I'm looking forward to seeing both play more significant roles in the future.

Like most here, except for TC, we can see the real upside of Case. I hope the Texans trade TJ and keep Case and let him groom for the next year or two.
 
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Keenum has more upside, and I would like to see him start eventually, but the right call was made. There wasn't enough of a gap between the two in preseason to justify unseating Yates. Yates stepped it up considerably compared to last season. And this competition is going to be even more interesting next year.
 
i agree that the right call was made. yates is the safe bet to come in and run the entire offense if needed. the playbook would look slightly different with keenum i assume. i think keenum can and may be a starter sooner rather than later, but yates is probably the better backup.

call me cynical but it also helps maintain yates's value. his stock would drop quite a bit if he were demoted to 3rd string.
 
Scooter said:
the playbook would look slightly different with keenum i assume. i think keenum can and may be a starter sooner rather than later, but yates is probably the better backup.
Click to expand...

I think Yates could be a very good starter. We won't know until he gets his opportunity.


But I think Kubiak would love to draw up some plays for Keenum.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think Yates could be a very good starter. We won't know until he gets his opportunity.


But I think Kubiak would love to draw up some plays for Keenum.
Click to expand...

If I were a wagering man I'd bet there are a few already inked. I imagine Gary's been doodling for a while now.
 
76Texan said:
They both did well; better than most, perhaps better than almost all #2s out there, and probably even better than a few ones.
Click to expand...

We have two backup QBs that can inserted into a game and keep it going for a bit. One of them has starting experience and has shown he can win a playoff game against a badly coached team. I'm comfortable with them both, most especially when you look at a lot of the other backup QBs in the league.

I still think Keenum will be starting material some day though.
 
You know, after watching preseason, I feel as though Gary
was sort of testing that "it factor". He put Case into a
few positions with a really negative potential outcome just
to see if he could produce.

I can't get over the TD pass on 4th and 2 from the 30
something yard line. Or the 28 yard completion to the
middle of the field when Keenum was standing in the
endzone with the pocket collapsing around him.

Honestly, I just cannot fathom Gary letting Matt or T.J.
even attempt those. It's so "outside of the Kubiak comfort
zone". Granted, it was the preseason, but I don't ever
recall him doing that in prior preseasons either.

Everytime I saw a play like that I got sort of a "Sink or Swim"
feeling from Gary's playcalling.

TJ
 
thunderkyss said:
I think Yates could be a very good starter. We won't know until he gets his opportunity.


But I think Kubiak would love to draw up some plays for Keenum.
Click to expand...



yates did get the chance to be a starter and was very average despite what his fans would like to call it
 
speedfreek said:
You know, after watching preseason, I feel as though Gary
was sort of testing that "it factor". He put Case into a
few positions with a really negative potential outcome just
to see if he could produce.

I can't get over the TD pass on 4th and 2 from the 30
something yard line. Or the 28 yard completion to the
middle of the field when Keenum was standing in the
endzone with the pocket collapsing around him.

Honestly, I just cannot fathom Gary letting Matt or T.J.
even attempt those. It's so "outside of the Kubiak comfort
zone". Granted, it was the preseason, but I don't ever
recall him doing that in prior preseasons either.

Everytime I saw a play like that I got sort of a "Sink or Swim"
feeling from Gary's playcalling.

TJ
Click to expand...

I know.
I was saying that Keenum was put in more challenging situations than what we normally see in the preseason, with any coach really.

They only do that to find out if the guy can handle the various situations.
Keenum passed those tests admirably.

On the other hand, Yates were put in fewer challenging situations, and he also passed those tests. Not only that, he executed most of the routine plays well as a whole.

It was a very good battle.
 
Thorn said:
We have two backup QBs that can inserted into a game and keep it going for a bit. One of them has starting experience and has shown he can win a playoff game against a badly coached team. I'm comfortable with them both, most especially when you look at a lot of the other backup QBs in the league.

I still think Keenum will be starting material some day though.
Click to expand...

I hope so Thorn; I hope so.
 
2012Champs said:
yates did get the chance to be a starter and was very average despite what his fans would like to call it
Click to expand...

I'm no more a Yates fan than I am a Keenum fan, but what Yates did in 2011.... average is pretty good for a rookie in that situation.
 
speedfreek said:
Or the 28 yard completion to the
middle of the field when Keenum was standing in the
endzone with the pocket collapsing around him.
Click to expand...

This is the play etched in my mind about Keenum. He showed great composure in that situation and never appeared to be anything but in full control of the pass.

The Texans are very fortunate to have some depth at many positions, QB included. I do not think either backup is better than Schaub, but I also do not feel like the season is lost if Schaub goes down.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is the play etched in my mind about Keenum. He showed great composure in that situation and never appeared to be anything but in full control of the pass.

The Texans are very fortunate to have some depth at many positions, QB included. I do not think either backup is better than Schaub, but I also do not feel like the season is lost if Schaub goes down.
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That's a luxury right there, DB.

At the most important position on the team.

I just hope that we can survive the injuries at other positions, especially on the line and at key positions on defense.
 
2012Champs said:
I was being overly generous with the term average
Click to expand...

All technicalities!
TK was only playing the field, as he normally does .
He's the Henry Kissinger of football MB.

Sometimes you hate him; sometimes you love him.
Sometimes he makes a lot of sense; occasionally he doensn't.
He throws you into a maze and then he pulls back.
It's a natural talent .

You don't know how much I dislike Kissinger as a politician, but after years of reflection, the guy was damn smart.
 
76Texan said:
All technicalities!
TK was only playing the field, as he normally does .
He's the Henry Kissinger of football MB.

Sometimes you hate him; sometimes you love him.
Sometimes he makes a lot of sense; occasionally he doensn't.
He throws you into a maze and then he pulls back.
It's a natural talent .

You don't know how much I dislike Kissinger as a politician, but after years of reflection, the guy was damn smart.
Click to expand...

So basically, you despise TK, but you think he's really intelligent.
 
People are too quick to rush Keenum into the spotlight. I realize he has a ton of local fans, but give the kid some time and be objective about his progress. He needs time to develop and learn how to be a starting QB in the NFL. Too many times teams are rushing QB development because of pressure from ownership or fanbase.

Green Bay did it right. Had a guy in place and let their young guy develop. When the time was right, they cut the vet loose and let their guy take over. It's amazing to me that so many teams do not take the same approach. There are so many young QB's in the league right now who are just not very good because their franchise rushed them and didn't take the time to let them develop.

.......

Schaub's play is dwindling and has been for some time now. He's still a solid NFL starter, but that's mainly because of the ridiculous talent he's surrounded by. We really need to be developing his replacement right now because we can not afford to be that team who just throws the next guy right into the fire.

Yates is a very solid QB. He's not a star, but he can get the job done. I see him as one of the better backup QB's in the league right now. Hopefully we can retain him for some time because I really like him as a #2.

I like Keenum and he could be the guy that we are developing to replace Schaub. But there is absolutely no reason to rush the process. Give the guy some time to get better. I'm interested to see how he progresses this year and see where he's at around this time next year.

If he continues to take care of business I can easily see him passing Yates next year and possibly supplanting Schaub the year after that.
 
Funny thought!

(those two guys couldn't be more 180 degrees out of phase
in terms of ethics and discipline..)

Can you believe how lucky Kevin Sumlin has been for his
entire career as a collegiate head coach?

I could totally see Jerrah firing the redhead and hiring Kevin
to replace him -- at the same time drafting JFF (if they have
another bad year.)

Even if the team sucked, he'd do it just for the crazy amount
of money all of those new Ag-Cowboy fans would generate..

Jerrah strikes me as more of a salesman than a winner..

TJ

badboy said:
I think Manziel is signing Keenum's stuff and selling it.
Click to expand...
 
WolverineFan said:
People are too quick to rush Keenum into the spotlight. I realize he has a ton of local fans, but give the kid some time and be objective about his progress. He needs time to develop and learn how to be a starting QB in the NFL. Too many times teams are rushing QB development because of pressure from ownership or fanbase.

Green Bay did it right. Had a guy in place and let their young guy develop. When the time was right, they cut the vet loose and let their guy take over. It's amazing to me that so many teams do not take the same approach. There are so many young QB's in the league right now who are just not very good because their franchise rushed them and didn't take the time to let them develop.

...

I like Keenum and he could be the guy that we are developing to replace Schaub. But there is absolutely no reason to rush the process. Give the guy some time to get better. I'm interested to see how he progresses this year and see where he's at around this time next year.

If he continues to take care of business I can easily see him passing Yates next year and possibly supplanting Schaub the year after that.
Click to expand...

These echo my thoughts on the situation. Rep.
 
WolverineFan said:
People are too quick to rush Keenum into the spotlight. I realize he has a ton of local fans, but give the kid some time and be objective about his progress. He needs time to develop and learn how to be a starting QB in the NFL. Too many times teams are rushing QB development because of pressure from ownership or fanbase.

Green Bay did it right. Had a guy in place and let their young guy develop. When the time was right, they cut the vet loose and let their guy take over. It's amazing to me that so many teams do not take the same approach. There are so many young QB's in the league right now who are just not very good because their franchise rushed them and didn't take the time to let them develop.

.......

Schaub's play is dwindling and has been for some time now. He's still a solid NFL starter, but that's mainly because of the ridiculous talent he's surrounded by. We really need to be developing his replacement right now because we can not afford to be that team who just throws the next guy right into the fire.

Yates is a very solid QB. He's not a star, but he can get the job done. I see him as one of the better backup QB's in the league right now. Hopefully we can retain him for some time because I really like him as a #2.

I like Keenum and he could be the guy that we are developing to replace Schaub. But there is absolutely no reason to rush the process. Give the guy some time to get better. I'm interested to see how he progresses this year and see where he's at around this time next year.

If he continues to take care of business I can easily see him passing Yates next year and possibly supplanting Schaub the year after that.
Click to expand...
If Schaub has any semblance of a late season or playoff swoon, it will be between Yates and Keenum next year, imho.

As for your earlier comments, I think teams should use good sense in developing players. Not all players need to sit for 3 years to learn their respective systems. Not all players are ready to start right away.
 
DocBar said:
If Schaub has any semblance of a late season or playoff swoon, it will be between Yates and Keenum next year, imho.

As for your earlier comments, I think teams should use good sense in developing players. Not all players need to sit for 3 years to learn their respective systems. Not all players are ready to start right away.
Click to expand...

Said the same thing a couple months.

Hey I also saw you at the Chargers MB.:fans:
 
DX-TEX said:
Said the same thing a couple months.

Hey I also saw you at the Chargers MB.:fans:
Click to expand...
Yeah. I was planning on going to the game, but my buddy that was going with me can't get off work on Tuesday (we are working in El Centro, Ca.) and it would suck going by myself. I can get 50 yd line field level seats for $200. Those are cheap tickets for the location.
 
DocBar said:
Yeah. I was planning on going to the game, but my buddy that was going with me can't get off work on Tuesday (we are working in El Centro, Ca.) and it would suck going by myself. I can get 50 yd line field level seats for $200. Those are cheap tickets for the location.
Click to expand...


Shoot yeah that's a steal. Heard they still haven't sold out, so they may black it out. I'd find someone to go with if I were you. Jj Watt won't be making that trip very often.
 
DocBar said:
If Schaub has any semblance of a late season or playoff swoon, it will be between Yates and Keenum next year, imho.

As for your earlier comments, I think teams should use good sense in developing players. Not all players need to sit for 3 years to learn their respective systems. Not all players are ready to start right away.
Click to expand...



A playoff swoon by Schaub and two players who can't start in the nfl take his place? I don't see it
 
2012Champs said:
A playoff swoon by Schaub and two players who can't start in the nfl take his place? I don't see it
Click to expand...
Lay off of what ever you're smoking. I'll bet you a paycheck that Smith is fielding offers for both Yates and Keenum. Either one can start in the NFL, and one will at some point. And I'm taking MUCH more of a risk, paycheck-wise, than you are. If not, you're an extremely well paid individual.
 
2012Champs said:
A playoff swoon by Schaub and two players who can't start in the nfl take his place? I don't see it
Click to expand...

I felt the same way about Sage that DocBar feels about Yates & Keenum.

I'd have started Sage before I traded two 2nd rounders & signed a guy to be the starting QB. I want someone to win the job on the field. & Sage beat Carr out for the job, imo.

Nothing against Matt, the trade worked out better than I expected.

My plan is that Matt is the starter as long as he's healthy. But if we're down early like we were against the Pats or Packers last year, I'm sending one of the kids in. If they play exceptional (because playing fine, or alright isn't going to cut it) then they'll get to start the next game & we'll go from there.

If benching Schaub doesn't turn on that "sense of urgency" switch, I don't know what will. But our next starting QB is going to win the job (if I had anything to say about it). If Kubiak thinks he can win 10 or more games with Yates/Keenum, I'm fine with that. If he brings someone in to compete for the job in the offseason, I'm fine with that.

If he brings Schaub back, after a play off swoon, I won't understand it, but I'd support him & root for him best I could. & my idea of a play off swoon is probably not as liberal as some. His 2012 performance did not warrant replacing him or the slack he's gotten since.
 
thunderkyss said:
I felt the same way about Sage that DocBar feels about Yates & Keenum.

I'd have started Sage before I traded two 2nd rounders & signed a guy to be the starting QB. I want someone to win the job on the field. & Sage beat Carr out for the job, imo.

Nothing against Matt, the trade worked out better than I expected.

My plan is that Matt is the starter as long as he's healthy. But if we're down early like we were against the Pats or Packers last year, I'm sending one of the kids in. If they play exceptional (because playing fine, or alright isn't going to cut it) then they'll get to start the next game & we'll go from there.

If benching Schaub doesn't turn on that "sense of urgency" switch, I don't know what will. But our next starting QB is going to win the job (if I had anything to say about it). If Kubiak thinks he can win 10 or more games with Yates/Keenum, I'm fine with that. If he brings someone in to compete for the job in the offseason, I'm fine with that.

If he brings Schaub back, after a play off swoon, I won't understand it, but I'd support him & root for him best I could. & my idea of a play off swoon is probably not as liberal as some. His 2012 performance did not warrant replacing him or the slack he's gotten since.
Click to expand...

Tk I hear you but my take on MS is based on what I have seen since he has been here and what he really is. Also I agree 100% what you said about replacing MS but Kubiak I don't think will do that.

I posted this in a previous thread
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling. We have seen it many times. The above is based on him playing like he did in the first 12 games last year. If he plays like he did at the end then I don't want him at all.

I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game. I would not like him right now to get us to the playoffs because I think he will have lower lows but higher highs. He is not as consistent as MS but I think he has a chance to have a great game at times and carry a team. I really don't think MS has that in him.

Tough situation right now because MS is going to play and the other QB's get no experience so you have to ride MS in the playoffs and we win the game not because of MS does but what the rest of the team does.

Just my opinion. "

I think I understand more now what I meant after reading a SI article on How to beat Alabama and watching the UT vs BYU game.

Matt is maybe the least likely player to create, improvise, or make an unscheduled play. First he is possible the least physically gifted QB and he hasn't shown any ability to improvise if a play breaks down. Against lesser teams you can play that way and win. Against equal or better teams you can't play like that and win unless you have a dominating defense which we don't. We may have the most dominating defensive player but the defense as a whole is above average.

A good coach with good talent can come up with a way to stop a team. As Saban stated you can't scheme against a player that can make an unscheduled play. MS is maybe the least likely to make an unscheduled play and thus it is easier to scheme against the Texans because you do not need to account for MS. Just my opinion but I think TJ is very much like MS in that aspect. I would welcome the chance to see how TJ/CK would fare in real action but it won't happen unless MS is hurt.

In the regular season, as we saw last year you can get away with MS as QB. When the games really started to matter at the end of the season/playoffs we saw what happened.

Watching the UT vs BYU game hammered home what a multi talented QB has over a 1 dimension non athletic QB but really we see this fact every week.

Now to be fare to MS maybe GK has the handcuffs on MS but I think even if MS had a green light he does not have the ability to improvise.

Post too long and rambling now. I am out.
 
gafftop said:
"My take on MS is for the regular season games against the non elite teams I am ok with ms because you really don't need him to win game. As long as he manages game the Texans probably win. I think MS has the best chance of managing a game of the 3 QBs.

Against the elite teams you need the QB to do more and MS has a ceiling.
Click to expand...

I don't really care what they do in the regular season against the "elite" teams. Baltimore won the Super Bowl & we whupped their a55. Maybe Denver wasn't playing their best game when we crushed them, but that was still Peyton Manning sitting on the sideline opposite Matt. We also beat New England when they were trying to secure a bye week... for some reason "we" say that was a meaningless game, but in 2012 winning that one game was the difference between being in the Super Bowl & watching the Super Bowl.

We won't see the Packers or Saints in the post season until the Super Bowl... so again, not worried.

There's enough crap teams out there for us to secure our play off berth against.
gafftop said:
I think TJ has the same upside as MS a he gets more experience but not much more.

Case is the one I would want if we need the QB to win the game.
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Chances are 1 in a million that either of those guys will be a franchise QB. If we were to draft a QB after the 25th pick in the draft, chances are probably 10 in a million.

I hope we hit on one of the two, then we can just keep on rolling. I don't care which.

What I don't like, though, is that Kubiak has Schaub & he believes he can win a Super Bowl with him. He probably can but if there was a QB that he thought we will win a Super Bowl with, I wish he would have gone & got him. Maybe he thinks that is Case, or Tj, I don't know.

But if he thinks of them as QBs that can & they end up starting, I hope he doesn't stop looking for the one that will win a Super Bowl.

I really don't care how shiny he can make that penny, if there's a dime out there, go get the frk'n dime & call it a day.
 
TJ has more experience, Case is the better QB, good problem to have if Matt does go down. I think we are way better off than we were with Matty L and TJ a couple years ago. I believe either of our backups could take us just as far as Schaub can.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't really care what they do in the regular season against the "elite" teams. Baltimore won the Super Bowl & we whupped their a55. Maybe Denver wasn't playing their best game when we crushed them, but that was still Peyton Manning sitting on the sideline opposite Matt. We also beat New England when they were trying to secure a bye week... for some reason "we" say that was a meaningless game, but in 2012 winning that one game was the difference between being in the Super Bowl & watching the Super Bowl.

We won't see the Packers or Saints in the post season until the Super Bowl... so again, not worried.

There's enough crap teams out there for us to secure our play off berth against.


Chances are 1 in a million that either of those guys will be a franchise QB. If we were to draft a QB after the 25th pick in the draft, chances are probably 10 in a million.

I hope we hit on one of the two, then we can just keep on rolling. I don't care which.

What I don't like, though, is that Kubiak has Schaub & he believes he can win a Super Bowl with him. He probably can but if there was a QB that he thought we will win a Super Bowl with, I wish he would have gone & got him. Maybe he thinks that is Case, or Tj, I don't know.

But if he thinks of them as QBs that can & they end up starting, I hope he doesn't stop looking for the one that will win a Super Bowl.

I really don't care how shiny he can make that penny, if there's a dime out there, go get the frk'n dime & call it a day.
Click to expand...

When I say I would choose Case I mean out of the ones we have to choose from.
I agree also that it is a low probability that one of our current QB's is the one.
MS we know is not the one. We could win with him but not because of him. Of course I think the same could be said of GK also. With GK I am not sure we will ever see what the others can do unless there is an injury and I am not sure even then you will find out.
 
DocBar said:
Lay off of what ever you're smoking. I'll bet you a paycheck that Smith is fielding offers for both Yates and Keenum. Either one can start in the NFL, and one will at some point. And I'm taking MUCH more of a risk, paycheck-wise, than you are. If not, you're an extremely well paid individual.
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I am fairly well paid so I am not sure who would be taking on more risk however there is no real bet here. How on earth would we know of Rick was fielding calls? Talk about smoking stuff. Yates/Case are not starter material at this point and Schaub tanking in the playoffs isn't going to cost him his starting role
 
2012Champs said:
Talk about smoking stuff. Yates/Case are not starter material at this point and Schaub tanking in the playoffs isn't going to cost him his starting role
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What is it about Yates/Case that makes you think they are not "starting" material?
 
2012Champs said:
Neither impressed me with play, Yates more so than Case but nevertheless we end up with me being unimpressed
Click to expand...
Both played very well in preseason, both had very good command of the offense and both made plays with their legs when the play broke down.

Maybe you've been watching the Texans too closely and think that WR's should have to slow down, come back to the ball or stop to make a catch and that QB's should assume the fetal position at the mere whiff of pressure.

What would a QB have to do to impress you? Be drafted early in the 1st round? Have a lot of hoopla about them coming out of college?
 
DocBar said:
Both played very well in preseason, both had very good command of the offense and both made plays with their legs when the play broke down.

Maybe you've been watching the Texans too closely and think that WR's should have to slow down, come back to the ball or stop to make a catch and that QB's should assume the fetal position at the mere whiff of pressure.

What would a QB have to do to impress you? Be drafted early in the 1st round? Have a lot of hoopla about them coming out of college?
Click to expand...



Do you think the texans are spending money just to spend money? Why if tj/case are as good as you say then why are we keeping Matt in there? Tj was well overhyped in his season fill in role and to the preseason the two would have to crush 2nd and 3rd tier Ds to impress me
 
2012Champs said:
Do you think the texans are spending money just to spend money? Why if tj/case are as good as you say then why are we keeping Matt in there? Tj was well overhyped in his season fill in role and to the preseason the two would have to crush 2nd and 3rd tier Ds to impress me
Click to expand...
No, I don't think the Texans are spending money just to spend it. They locked Schaub up based on the belief that if he'd been healthy for the entire 2011 season, the Texans might've been Super Bowl champs. They also signed him to a smart contract (Smith is apparently smarter than Kubiak because his "smart" stuff pays off) that doesn't hamstring the team too far in the future. They can cut or trade Schaub after this season and not owe him a dime.

Schaub has a penchant for wilting under the bright lights and pressure of big games. Maybe this year he'll turn it around and do great.

Yates did pretty dang good for a rookie 3rd string QB in 2010. About as good as one can reasonably expect. He's improved a lot since then.

Keenum has a knack for the position and seems to thrive in the same under the same circumstances Schaub wilts under. He's shown himself to be a very quick learner and that shallow learning curve showed itself this preseason when his natural talent and ability took over and the game seemed to slow down for him.

Schaub may very well play lights out and lead the Texans to a Super Bowl victory this season. That's not a good reason to downplay the quality of the two guys behind him. If Schaub goes down this season, Yates will be up to the task. I haven't felt this good about the backup QB position since Rosencopter was on the team.

I'm as unimpressed by your opinion of Yates and Keenum as you are with them.
 
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