Carr's Win

[thunderkyss]

and once again someone disects a game out of context of what the other team was doing to us. gee wiz I guess if we mostly passed the ball then any failure or breakdown could be credited to the passing game. oh wait, the other team has a defense, maybe we should credit some of it to them.

Nahhhhh..

Either we are beating them with our run game, or not.

Either we are beating them with our passing game, or not.

There isn't anything in any of our games (other than Miami) that should suggest our run game was ineffective. Number of attempts taken into consideration should indicate that we didn't even try to run the football. The production we did get, suggest we should have run the ball more.


11:21 in the third, we are down 21-10..... 11 points.
9 snaps, 3 runs, 3 yards, 2yards(first down), & 11 yards (first down). the running game is doing what it's supposed to do.

Same score, defense did it's job. 5:41 left in the third: incomplete, sack, incomplete..... not one attempt to run. We've got time, The score is manageable,

they score a field goal..... Defense did good, not great. We got the ball with 12:41 left in the game against Philly, down by 2 scores. The run game should still be a viable option to help make up the defecit(sp) and keep McNabb on the sideline. We took 11 offensive snaps, & ran the ball twice. One for 7 yards (on 2nd & 2), and 4 yards (on 1st & 10).

________________________________________________

Indy

In the first Qtr, we had 18 offensive snaps. 9 run plays for 32 yards
none in the first possession.
2 in the second possession. 1 for no gain, and another for 8 yards. The first put us in 2nd & 10 (should be manageable for the passing game) that results in an 8 yard sack, 3rd & 17 we get the 8 yards back. It would have been nice to pick up all 17 on that play, but it shouldn't be considered a failure not to o a running play.

our 3rd possession. 9 snaps. 7 run plays, 24 yards.
WaliLundy fumbles the ball on 1st & 10.
Ron Dayne had a 3 yrd, 8 yrd, 8yrd, 3 yrd runs (4 carries 16 yards)
Lundy had 2 yrd, 2 yrd, 4 yrd fumble...... (3 carries 8 yards)

Luckily our defense gets us the ball back with the same score.

we start the second Qtr down 0-14 @ 11:58
1st possession: 6 snaps 2 runs 11 yards. both runs on 1st & 10, and both picking up 5 yards. an incomplete pass, and an illegal block puts us in 2nd & 20, and we can't get out. PUNT.

OUr D holds them to a field goal..... We get the ball @ 5:57 remaining in the Qtr down 0-17. 9 offensive snaps, 2 run plays for 8 yards.
1st & 10 RonDayne for one yard, 2nd & 9 incomplete to Gado, 3 & 9 Gado for 7 yards....... field goal.

We alloww 10 points on two possessions before we get the ball back in the third. Down 3-27 @ 8:07 in the third.
1st possession...... Run stuffed for no gain, 2 incomplete passes. PUNT

Defense allows another fieldgoal, we are down 3-30 @ 3:12 in the third.
Gado picks up 2 yards on 1st & 10, then 3 yards on a checkdown, then Carr's sacked on 3rd & 5. PUNT.

Our D forces a Punt, we start the 4th Qtr with the same score. 3-30 @ 14:11

1st possession 9 plays. 3 carries for 9 yards, on an 80 yard drive. Touchdown.

2nd Possession 6 plays. 1 run play for 27 yards, plus an 8 yard scamper by David Carr on a 68 yard drive. Touchdown.

3rd Possession 6 plays 61 yards. 1 run for 9 yards.

We were one dimensional after the Colts opened the third Qtr with a touchdown, and we went 3 & out.


I can do the Washington game as well, but why don't you save me the time, and disect these games for us with consideration to what the defense is doing to us.

 

[thunderkyss]

If Carr makes it to the pro bowl, and finishes the season with the best QB rating, the most touchdowns and the fewest int's, to some people he will still suck and they will whine next year when we dont take a QB with our first pick.

Since this is the only part I didn't ignore, I'll ignore it now.

we are not a good football team, we never were. which QB we have really has little or nothing to do with it.

Our new head coach has this saying.... as he goes, so does the team. I believe the "he" Kubiak is refering to is our QB

We dont have an oline, and we never have.

Not once has anyone ever disputed this. Not once.

we havent had a secondary since 2004 even then it was average.

Again. The majority here would agree with you. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who wouldn't.

people say the QB is an easy target for failure and Texans fans have proved that to me.

See here you go making it seem like the QB has done nothing at all to warrant the attention he gets.

now if we won 10 to 12 games a year and made it to the playoffs, I'm pretty sure alot of these whining nitpicking complaints would mysteriously go away, no matter what the stats said about this player or that player.

Is that something exclusive to Houston?? I believe it's the same in N.O., GB, Philadelphia, Minnesota.

I live in Kansas now and it's no different here, the chiefs stunk up the place in their first game and lost in overtime to denver. the fans all said they sucked. they beat the crap out of a terrible 49er team and now they are great. No logic to any of this. I just want the texans to get better, and I think they will, but they have a lot of catching up to do just to become an average team, let alone a great one.

I think we all agree here.

I trust Carr at QB more than I trust mcleon at CB or Greenwood at LB or CC brown at FS, I could go on and on right down the depth chart, david carr is way way down on the list of players that worry me.

Why?? Is Carr the only one on the team capable of getting better??
McLeon & Greenwood were starters on their previous team, & CC Brown has had the same poor coaching David Carr has. The kid tackles well, and covers quite a bit of ground. his head isn't in the game like it should be. But the same can be said about Carr. CC's mistake may cost us a touchdown, but so does Carr's. Only difference, is that CC's mistake will show on the scoreboard, and David's won't as easily.

David Carr is improving as a QB. CC Brown is improving as a DB. Sanders has improved quite a bit as a corner. McLeon is playing at about the level Dunta is right now.

But David Carr's improvment, will help the team look better a lot faster than any of the other guys(with the exception of maybe Sanders. If he learns to catch, we'd be pretty scary on Defense already)

 

[Runner]

We have some high energy posters on this board. They can bloviate endlessly.

 

[Vinny]

the blah blah blah zone strikes again.

 

[thunderkyss]

the blah blah blah zone strikes again.

I know, just when you think it's safe to join in MB discussions, they come along and ruin everything.


Some people.

 

[tsip]

We have some high energy posters on this board. They can bloviate endlessly.

...fortunately, not all posters have an endless 'craving' to see their posts take up 90% of every threads content:brickwall

 

[thunderkyss]

I guess to some it is fun to just make crud up on the fly.

Dude--Kubiak, every OLmen, the RB's, the WR's, etc. have all acknowledged the lack of a running game and how it is lagging the passing game. Whatever--I guess you with your 3.2 yds and a cloud of dust is pretty good and your dysfunctional stop watch which runs at a completely different speed than the one on the game tape know better.

...fortunately, not all posters have an endless 'craving' to see their posts take up 90% of every threads content:brickwall

Forgive me, if I felt provoked, when I shouldn't have.

Forgive me for providing factual evidence for saying the "off-the-wall" things that I say.

Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.

 

[Vinny]

Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.

I don't think anyone is doging you for having an opinion. If you stick to what you know I think you would get less heat. Sometimes it seems that you are just making stuff up to argue.

 

[thunderkyss]

I don't think anyone is doging you for having an opinion. If you stick to what you know I think you would get less heat. Sometimes it seems that you are just making stuff up to argue.

and so I provide what I think is factual evidence to back up my opinion.... that I did not make up. But there is so much of it, no one wants to read it all, & we get into the blah, blah, blah discussion......



What am I making up?? That our Running game wasn't our Bane in the Washington, Philly, & Indy games?? Playcalling & a poor defense kept our guys off the field more than anything else. We predominately tried to pass the football, and that kept us in trouble, that kept our offense of the field.

We had a bad game against Miami, running the ball against Miami, now people talk like that's been our problem from week 1, and it hasn't.

 

[Vinny]

just a general impression. One day you are asking what a will and sam lb is and the next day you imply you may be a player. Inconsistent is your middle name.

 

[texan279]

and so I provide what I think is factual evidence to back up my opinion.... that I did not make up. But there is so much of it, no one wants to read it all, & we get into the blah, blah, blah discussion......



What am I making up?? That our Running game wasn't our Bane in the Washington, Philly, & Indy games?? Playcalling & a poor defense kept our guys off the field more than anything else. We predominately tried to pass the football, and that kept us in trouble, that kept our offense of the field.

We had a bad game against Miami, running the ball against Miami, now people talk like that's been our problem from week 1, and it hasn't.

All of the stats you post do not tell the entire story. Our running game has been horrible this season. As a team we are 4th in the NFL with 7 passing TD's, 1st in completion percentage with 73% of our passes completed, and we have 2 WR's ranked in the top 30 in the NFL for receiving yards. As a team we average 3.2 yards per carry, that is pathetic. Our running game has been the problem, I honestly do not know how our passing game has had so much success when we can't run the ball at all.

 

[infantrycak]

What am I making up?? That our Running game wasn't our Bane in the Washington, Philly, & Indy games??

(on the running game) “We knew this team would be difficult to run against. They did some things defensively to take our running backs out of the game, and when they do that you know you’re going to have to make some plays in the pocket. We just did not run the ball well, and their defense made it very difficult for us.”

(on Houston ’s offensive live performance) “I thought we started to run the ball better. I’m very encouraged by Ron Dayne and Samkon Gado. We’ve got a long way to go, but they’re going to help us get better as a football team.”

(on the running game) “When you get down 17-0. The run first gets kind of tough and we ran the ball better we just didn’t run it good enough against that group, in my opinion, when I look at the film. We still could have ran it better. I think running the football is the key to winning, it’s not just what we do. Running the football is the key to winning in this league. We won’t waiver from that commitment, no matter how long it takes. We will figure out a way to run it and we’ll stay committed.”

This isn't a problem that just started against Miami--it started against the Eagles prompting such headlines and commentary as:

Offense led by passing game

The Texans’ offense was carried by its’ passing game as Johnson and veteran Eric Moulds combined for 169 receiving yards. Led by quarterback David Carr, the Texans came out ready to play early Sunday. Houston’s offense charged down the field during their first possession reaching the end zone on a Carr to Moulds 25-yard connection.

“The second half was pretty frustrating,” Carr said. “It started off descent, but we really could never get anything going after that. For our offense to work with play action, boots and keeps, we need to start running the ball better.”

All cites from HoustonTexans.com material.

Call me silly but when the coach, my eyes and the stats say the running game is poor--I'm going with it's poor rather than "pretty good."

Geez--now I am taking up bandwidth.

 

[texan279]

For our offense to work with play action, boots and keeps, we need to start running the ball better.

Ding ding ding!!!

 

[Texans Horror]

Ding ding ding!!!

And for the run game to improve, the o-line needs to improve. It all starts in the trenches.

 

[real]

And for the run game to improve, the o-line needs to improve. It all starts in the trenches.

I still don't think our run blocking is that bad...I don't think we have superb run blocking but IMO, its good enough to have atleast an 85yrd a game back...I think it's more on our backs at this point...they've had chances that they just didn't capatalize on...

 

[tsip]

Forgive me, if I felt provoked, when I shouldn't have.

Forgive me for providing factual evidence for saying the "off-the-wall" things that I say.

Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.

It's not the 'providing' that's the problem--it's the relentless 'redundancy,' the over and over of saying the same thing--once you've said 'it,' try moving on...

 

[thunderkyss]

just a general impression. One day you are asking what a will and sam lb is and the next day you imply you may be a player. Inconsistent is your middle name.

neither here nor there, but the one time I mentioned me playing, was as a DE. I never said I was anygood, or that I played very long. just that I did play a little in highschool.

Or are you talking about when I said I might be a particular player that was getting dogged at the time??

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Forgive me, if I felt provoked, when I shouldn't have.

Forgive me for providing factual evidence for saying the "off-the-wall" things that I say.

Forgive me for providing the reasons I hold the opinions that I have.

I am sorry TK, I did not see the cry for help. You have been forgiven. I offer you this smilie as a token of forgiveness.

 

[thunderkyss]

All of the stats you post do not tell the entire story. Our running game has been horrible this season. As a team we are 4th in the NFL with 7 passing TD's, 1st in completion percentage with 73% of our passes completed, and we have 2 WR's ranked in the top 30 in the NFL for receiving yards. As a team we average 3.2 yards per carry, that is pathetic. Our running game has been the problem, I honestly do not know how our passing game has had so much success when we can't run the ball at all.

These stats don't tell the whole story.

I'm not giving you stats, I'm showing you the play-by-play. We haven't been trying to run the ball, and when we did against philly, indy, and Washington we we did pretty good. There has been no dedication to the run game, till the miami game when we decided it might be a good idea to keep our defense off the field for more than 3 minutes at a time.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Wow, that was a lot to read. My brain hurts.

Ok, here is my take. Everyone knows we havent run the ball that well. That doesnt necessarily mean our running game sucks, it just means that we havent been too dedicated to establishing the running game.

With the way Carr has been accurate and how he has improved his decision making under Kubes, Kubiak must feel that our best chance to move the ball is via the passing game..and with our current OL injuries and lack of quality RB talent, he is probably right in thinking so.

Does this mean our running game has been giving a fair shot? No. What it does mean is that we feel more comfortable with our passing game, and as much as I like smashmouth football, we arent currently outfitted to play that game effectively imho.

TK, I appreciate your passion and your dedication to facts. I understand everythign you are saying, but it's all about the direction the coaches want to go, and currently Kubes is more comfortable with the passing game. To be honest, not many teams have been running the ball that well this year. It's a QB year so far.

Doug from the woodlands

 

[thunderkyss]

This isn't a problem that just started against Miami--it started against the Eagles prompting such headlines and commentary as:



All cites from HoustonTexans.com material.

Call me silly but when the coach, my eyes and the stats say the running game is poor--I'm going with it's poor rather than "pretty good."

Geez--now I am taking up bandwidth.

you're right. you all are. I don't know what I'm thinking.

I'll go back and rewatch all the games this week, and find examples that I can find with my own eyes that prove a commitment to run the ball in the philly game, and a failure to run the ball in that game. Because it is not showing up in the play by play for that game, the indy game, or the Washington game. We ran the ball well, the run game(with the exception of one penalty) did not put us in third & long situations.

In the second half of the Philly game, we took 23 snaps. we only ran the ball 5 times. less than 25% of the offensive snaps, with our first possession starting with 11:21 left in the third Qtr. Those runs... 3 were for 1st downs, a 2 yarder, an 11 yarder, and a 7 yard gain. The Other two, a 3 yarder & a 4 yard run on 1st & 10. What exactly is the defense doing to stop these runs??

It was the same for our other games, except the score might have gotten out of hand a little faster. the first QTr against Indy, we run the ball well... very well. 9 carries, 32 yards

The second Qtr..... we take 15 offensive snaps. & run the ball 4 times, gaining 19 yards. The first two are in the first possession of the second Qtr.. on 1st & 10, both go for 5 yards. In the second Qtr, we have one play stopped for 1 yard, then the second run for 7 yards. That second run came on a 3rd & 17.

After that, the game gets even more out of hand, and running the ball becomes an even smaller part of the offense from a playcalling perspective. Not a lack of production.

 

[thunderkyss]

Wow, that was a lot to read. My brain hurts.

Ok, here is my take. Everyone knows we havent run the ball that well. That doesnt necessarily mean our running game sucks, it just means that we havent been too dedicated to establishing the running game.

With the way Carr has been accurate and how he has improved his decision making under Kubes, Kubiak must feel that our best chance to move the ball is via the passing game..and with our current OL injuries and lack of quality RB talent, he is probably right in thinking so.

Does this mean our running game has been giving a fair shot? No. What it does mean is that we feel more comfortable with our passing game, and as much as I like smashmouth football, we arent currently outfitted to play that game effectively imho.

TK, I appreciate your passion and your dedication to facts. I understand everythign you are saying, but it's all about the direction the coaches want to go, and currently Kubes is more comfortable with the passing game. To be honest, not many teams have been running the ball that well this year. It's a QB year so far.

Doug from the woodlands

I don't have a problem with that at all. I've even tried to use these same facts in discussions begging Kubiak to be a more pass oriented team.

We've been pretty pass oriented already, and while we are generating points out of the passing game, it isn't helping our defense any on our less successful drives.

 

[real]

against Indy, we run the ball well... very well. 9 carries, 32 yards

I think there in lies the problem...your very well seems to be sub-par to most...9 carries for 32 yards is less than 4 yards per carry...To me that is poor...not very poor...but poor

 

[thunderkyss]

I think there in lies the problem...your very well seems to be sub-par to most...9 carries for 32 yards is less than 4 yards per carry...To me that is poor...not very poor...but poor

No, we're thinking the same way. But you have to see those runs. That was only the first Qtr, 4 of those went for 8 yards, some of the smaller runs were crucial in picking up the first downs. there was one play we didn't get anything out of, and the fumble after a good 4 yard chunk by Lundi. & that's another thing. Lundy wasn't doing very well, and we should have stayed with Dayne.

 

[real]

No, we're thinking the same way. But you have to see those runs. That was only the first Qtr, 4 of those went for 8 yards, some of the smaller runs were crucial in picking up the first downs. there was one play we didn't get anything out of, and the fumble after a good 4 yard chunk by Lundi. & that's another thing. Lundy wasn't doing very well, and we should have stayed with Dayne.

Thats fair...I don't recall specific plays and stats are misleading anyways....

 

[jerek]

Wow, that was a lot to read. My brain hurts.

Ok, here is my take. Everyone knows we havent run the ball that well. That doesnt necessarily mean our running game sucks, it just means that we havent been too dedicated to establishing the running game.

With the way Carr has been accurate and how he has improved his decision making under Kubes, Kubiak must feel that our best chance to move the ball is via the passing game..and with our current OL injuries and lack of quality RB talent, he is probably right in thinking so.

Does this mean our running game has been giving a fair shot? No. What it does mean is that we feel more comfortable with our passing game, and as much as I like smashmouth football, we arent currently outfitted to play that game effectively imho.

TK, I appreciate your passion and your dedication to facts. I understand everythign you are saying, but it's all about the direction the coaches want to go, and currently Kubes is more comfortable with the passing game. To be honest, not many teams have been running the ball that well this year. It's a QB year so far.

Doug from the woodlands

I think we've been "dedicated" -- we've just abandoned the run attack (in the form of an ingame adjustment) because it hasn't amounted to squat yet. We have zero open field speed and 3 YPC just isn't going to get it done. Does anybody sincerely believe Ron Dayne is anything more than a just-barely-good-enough-until-we-find-someone-better back? We traded IMO our best back for Gado who has looked good in times past in limited scenarios but has been very inconsistent so far. Both lack big speed and agility and struggle to hit the hole quickly if they get there at all. In reviewing tape there have been times where the O-line clearly failed to open the hole or missed an assignment but more often than not it is our backs that just don't get to the open lane.

I think you are right that Kubes is more comfortable passing but only because to date that's been more effective. I think Kubiak's goal is always to run the ball well -- it's an obvious trait over the last ten years or so at Denver -- but right now our failure to do so is an indictment against our HBs moreso than the playcalling or the O-line.

 

[tsip]

Kubiak was very specific about his take/vision on the running game in his post game comments. First, 30+ carries a game is his goal, whether running is getting desired results or not. Second, he and the coaches have got to find away to get those desired results. Saying that, though, he was adamant about what the running game does for TOP. Winning the TOP 'battle' will keep our offense on the field/theirs off and our defense off/theirs on. Of course, that all sounds good but he knows that is all a waste of time if the 'ultimate' translation is not scoring points.

 

[Headlights of a Carr]

...................

 

[Cgold]

your right.. the head coaches, and all the national media and anyone in football dont know what they are talkin about when they say we have no running game..
its actually the passing thats caused our losses.......

 

[thunderkyss]

your right.. the head coaches, and all the national media and anyone in football dont know what they are talkin about when they say we have no running game..
its actually the passing thats caused our losses.......

Look..... I posted the play by plays, find in there a series where the run game did less than what it was supposed to okay??

Try to find something other than They said it, so it must be true.

 

[texan279]

Look..... I posted the play by plays, find in there a series where the run game did less than what it was supposed to okay??

Try to find something other than They said it, so it must be true.

How do we know what exactly the run game is "supposed to do"? Carr has thrown for 7 TD's and ran for one TD and thrown for 865 yards. Our combined running game, including Carr, has rushed for 304 yards and ONE TD, which was Carr's bootleg. Take out Carr's rushing yards and our backs have rushed for 268 yards in four games, that is less than 65 yards a game from our backs which is horrible.

 

[Cgold]

well if people alot smarter then us making the decisions seem to think that we can not run the ball effectively im going to have to go with them.. we shuffle 3 rbs around because we do not have a #1 running back on our team.. even in a win we had no running game. ron dayne ran 22 times!!! you think maybe he got enough chances.. 58 yards...
lets go one game before, 58 yards...
the one before again.. 37,36,and 25 between 3 rbs.. now its pretty clear what part of the offense didnt hold up its part, considering our passer is #1.

that play by play one game is so one dimensional to what is really going on in these games..

problem number 1.. was Defense for sure... which then results in to many points for the opposing team...
number 2. we cant run the ball effectively and we cant even commit to it even if it was succesful because we can not score quickly enough to catch up on points.. which results in defenses not having to even focus on anything outside of passing the rest of the game.. and despite that the passing game continues to be the bright spot of this team..its not perfect but you cant tell me that the running game, special teams, OL or D has been been the more effective part of this team

 

[Napa Auto Parts]

I finally went to a game i figured i would go see ronnie brown run all over the texans since i got him on my fantasy team i was very surprised we won David had a good game. i felt like a DumbA** i took my Kroger paper bag but i was glad i wasnt allowed to use it since we played a pretty decent game.

i had no idea the dolphins are as bad as they play whats with the Shotgun formation every single drive well 97 percent of the game out of the shotgun.

 

[thunderkyss]

How do we know what exactly the run game is "supposed to do"? Carr has thrown for 7 TD's and ran for one TD and thrown for 865 yards. Our combined running game, including Carr, has rushed for 304 yards and ONE TD, which was Carr's bootleg. Take out Carr's rushing yards and our backs have rushed for 268 yards in four games, that is less than 65 yards a game from our backs which is horrible.

Keep us out of third & Long, and get first downs when we are in third & short. & Keep us on the field.

Other than the Miami game, we only had one short yardage situation, where we did not pick up the 1st down.

the stats you are showing do not tell what happened in the games. Miami, yes. we did terrible in that game.

But against Washington, when our Defense gave us the ball twice with a score of 14-7, we couldn't sustain a drive, mainly due to penalties, and failures in the passing game. These failures are the failures Kubiak is talking about when he says he needs our QB to perform for 4 Qtrs the way he does in the first & 4th. I'm not blaming David for the incomplete passes. I do remember a few drops, & I know our offensive line has not done a good job of protcting him. we even fumbled the ball.

But we got several 3 yard, 4 yard, even 8 yard runs..... then SamkonGado had the big 27 yard run. But we never made a commitment to run the ball. Even before the game was out of hand.

The runningbacks we had on the team against Philly weren't even on the active roster against Miami.. neither of them.

Against Indy, our feature back had only been a Texan for 2 weeks. & against Washington, he was our Senior running back.

Until Miami, neither back had enough carries to say we committed to the run game. Part of that was because of the score, but that doesn't explain the playcalling.

Check the play by play, & use your judgement, tell me where(wich series) our pathetic run game forced us to punt the ball away, or ended our drive. Be as liberal as you like.

 

[tsip]

"Keep us out of third & Long, and get first downs when we are in third & short. & Keep us on the field."

We are 29th in the league in 3rd down conversions. When has the rush kept us out of 3rd and long or gotten us 1st downs?

 

[thunderkyss]

well if people alot smarter then us making the decisions seem to think that we can not run the ball effectively im going to have to go with them.. we shuffle 3 rbs around because we do not have a #1 running back on our team.. even in a win we had no running game. ron dayne ran 22 times!!! you think maybe he got enough chances.. 58 yards...
lets go one game before, 58 yards...
the one before again.. 37,36,and 25 between 3 rbs.. now its pretty clear what part of the offense didnt hold up its part, considering our passer is #1.

Have you seen JamalLewis's line?? Last Sunday, he carried the ball 15 times, for a wopping 34 yards...... 2.3yrd/carry

Against Philladelphia, TikiBarber ran the ball 21 times for 51 yards, 2.4yrd/carry

Edgerrin James is avg 3.1 yards for the year.

that play by play one game is so one dimensional to what is really going on in these games..

What?? we gave the ball to our running backs..... they produced..... we didn't go to them enough, not because of what the defense is doing to us. Because of poor play calling, and poor game management.

problem number 1.. was Defense for sure... which then results in to many points for the opposing team...

You ever see the movie "Wag the Dog" they'll give you something easy to grab onto, and let you gnaw on it to draw attention away from what was really going on.......

We went down by two scores early in the Indy game, because our offense couldn't hold on to the ball. Their first possesion started on our 16 yard line. What did you expect the defense to do??

Their second possession started on their 37....... Their third possession started on their 19, after we drove down the field only to fumble it on their 19. This drive was actually our longest drive. 9 snaps, 7 runs, 2 passes. RonDayne carried the ball 4 times, for 16 yards. But instead of just giving him the ball, we put WaliLundy in the game, who runs for 8 yards on 4 carries, which includes the fumble.

Indy drives from their 19, into our endzone. But our defense forces a fumble inches before the goal line, preventing them from scoring.

The score is still 14-0 Indy.

Our offense gets the ball, Dayne carries the ball twice, for 11 yards. But a chop block in the passing game sets us back 15 yards. after which, we complete a 4 yard pass putting us at 3rd & 16. we then can't complete a pass for 5 yards....... why are we throwing a 5 yard pass to a TE coming out of the backfield on 3rd & 16??

Punt.

So far, our Defense is playing a fair game. our running game is performing well. only one part of our team at this point appears to be a complete failure.

the run game, and our defense is the only reason we are still in this game at this point.

number 2. we cant run the ball effectively and we cant even commit to it even if it was succesful because we can not score quickly enough to catch up on points.. which results in defenses not having to even focus on anything outside of passing the rest of the game.. and despite that the passing game continues to be the bright spot of this team..its not perfect but you cant tell me that the running game, special teams, OL or D has been been the more effective part of this team

Back to top.

 

[thunderkyss]

"Keep us out of third & Long, and get first downs when we are in third & short. & Keep us on the field."

We are 29th in the league in 3rd down conversions. When has the rush kept us out of 3rd and long or gotten us 1st downs?

It's all in the play by play.

 

[infantrycak]

We are 29th in the league in 3rd down conversions. When has the rush kept us out of 3rd and long or gotten us 1st downs?

Actually to make your point more poignant no we are not by a long shot. The Texans are tied for 4th in the league for 3rd down conversion % mainly on the back of a passing game which has gotten 11 1st downs on 21 attempts for an average attempt of over 10 yds. If the rushing game can get that down to less than 3rd and 5 more regularly...

 

[texan279]

It's all in the play by play.

Out of 73 1st downs we have made in our first four games, only 19 have come from the running game while 46 have come from the passing game. As a team we are averaging 3.2 yards per carry, as a team we have 304 rushing yards in 4 games, as a team we have scored 8 TD's, 7 have come from the passing game, and one from the running game, and that was on Carr's bootleg.

 

[michaelm]

You know in the Southern Hemisphere this "analysis" would be swirling the other direction down the toilet.

I agree with your sentiment, but the Southern Hemisphere reference is based on myth.

In reality, the Coriolis effect is a few orders of magnitude smaller than other random influences on drain direction, such as the geometry of the sink, toilet, or tub; whether it is flat or tilted; and the direction in which water was initially added to it.

I knew this, but could never have written it so well...
Thank you Wikipedia, you are my friend, and here is your credit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect

 

[Runner]

I agree with your sentiment, but the Southern Hemisphere reference is based on myth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect

Now why did you have to go and shatter that myth? Everyone knows you are wrong - even though you are correct.

However, I would give the original post poetic license. It was on of the most concise, eloquent, and picturesque descriptions of sophism I have ever seen.

 

[tsip]

It's all in the play by play.

...of course, sure it is

 

[thunderkyss]

Out of 73 1st downs we have made in our first four games, only 19 have come from the running game while 46 have come from the passing game. As a team we are averaging 3.2 yards per carry, as a team we have 304 rushing yards in 4 games, as a team we have scored 8 TD's, 7 have come from the passing game, and one from the running game, and that was on Carr's bootleg.

OK. how many attempts have we made to run the ball compared to how many times have we tried to pass the ball.

& our avg ypc is misleading, because we have not continued to run the ball when we were successfull, and tried to force the run when we weren't successful.

Passing the ball is fine. This isn't a Pass vs the run competition. We haven't ran the ball, not because we haven't been able to, just because we didn't. Miami is the only game we were not able to run, and we tried to force it.

RonDayne was doing very well against Indy & Washington. Lundy did fine in Philly. They would have produced more, if we gave them the ball more.

I understand what the coaches are saying. I don't understand why they are saying it. Because rewatching the games, and going over the play by play does not support what the coaches have been saying.

 

[tsip]

Actually to make your point more poignant no we are not by a long shot. The Texans are tied for 4th in the league for 3rd down conversion % mainly on the back of a passing game which has gotten 11 1st downs on 21 attempts for an average attempt of over 10 yds. If the rushing game can get that down to less than 3rd and 5 more regularly...

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-TOTAL/2006/regular?sort_col_1=7

...sorry, I was looking at this chart that says 3rd down conversions at the top but is actually a ranking of yds per game (where we are 29th)-not a ranking of where we stand in 3rd down conversions

 

[thunderkyss]

...of course, sure it is

Ok, Read This

Or this

 

[thunderkyss]

Actually to make your point more poignant no we are not by a long shot. The Texans are tied for 4th in the league for 3rd down conversion % mainly on the back of a passing game which has gotten 11 1st downs on 21 attempts for an average attempt of over 10 yds. If the rushing game can get that down to less than 3rd and 5 more regularly...

It's only been over a 10 yard avg because of sacks & penalties.. not because of failure of the run game.

 

[texan279]

OK. how many attempts have we made to run the ball compared to how many times have we tried to pass the ball.

& our avg ypc is misleading, because we have not continued to run the ball when we were successfull, and tried to force the run when we weren't successful.

Passing the ball is fine. This isn't a Pass vs the run competition. We haven't ran the ball, not because we haven't been able to, just because we didn't. Miami is the only game we were not able to run, and we tried to force it.

RonDayne was doing very well against Indy & Washington. Lundy did fine in Philly. They would have produced more, if we gave them the ball more.

I understand what the coaches are saying. I don't understand why they are saying it. Because rewatching the games, and going over the play by play does not support what the coaches have been saying.

Out of 94 rushing plays, we have made 19 1st downs, or 20% of our running plays have been for 1st downs. Out of 111 pass attempts, we have made 46 1st downs, or 41% of our passing plays have been for a 1st down. Dayne had 11 carries for 37 yards against Indy for 3.4 yards per carry and 14 carries for 58 yards against Washington for just over 4 yards per carry. Lundy had 11 carrries against Philly for 32 yards, that is less than three yards per carry. That's not "very well" IMO. Basically what I am getting from you is if we give Dayne, Gado, or Lundy the ball 40-50 times a game they could maybe get 100 yards rushing. But why should we give them the ball more? When they do get the ball the can't get anything done.

 

[SESupergenius]

That is a truly telling stat considering that the passing game has been our worst aspect of the team over the years. We now have started to put that together and need the running game to take us to the next level. When the cold weather starts coming in, we will need our running game more and more so we'd better start to get that going. It seems that the line has lost it's edginess from the preseason when they ran the ball so well.

 

[thunderkyss]

First two plays of the Indy game
Quote:
Houston Texans at 14:53
1-10-HOU25 (14:53) D.Carr sacked at HST 17 for -8 yards (R.Mathis).
Indianapolis Colts at 14:20
2-18-IND16 (14:20) D.Carr FUMBLES (Aborted) at HST 16, RECOVERED by IND-R.Brock at HST 16. R.Brock to HST 16 for no gain (D.Carr).
second possesion of the Indy game
Quote:
Houston Texans at 12:43
1-10-HOU24 (12:43) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 24 for no gain (G.Brackett, R.Mathis).
2-10-HOU24 (12:04) D.Carr sacked at HST 16 for -8 yards (R.Mathis). FUMBLES (R.Mathis), recovered by HST-Z.Wiegert at HST 17. Z.Wiegert to HST 17 for no gain (C.June). Minus 8 sack yards.
3-17-HOU17 (11:25) W.Lundy left tackle to HST 25 for 8 yards (G.Brackett, M.Jackson).
4-9-HOU25 (10:56) C.Stanley punts 38 yards to IND 37, Center-B.Pittman, fair catch by T.Wilkins.
Unless Carr gets sacked while handing the ball off, I consider that part of the passing game.

Okay...... I don't want to eat up bandwidth again. so I'll cut it short. In these two possessions...... Lundy had 2 carries. ONe for no gain, the other for 8 yards, 4 ypc. Do you think having to punt on that possession was due to the failure of the run game?? Yes, or no...... you can explain your answer if you want, but it isn't necessary.

 

[texan279]

Okay...... I don't want to eat up bandwidth again. so I'll cut it short. In these two possessions...... Lundy had 2 carries. ONe for no gain, the other for 8 yards, 4 ypc. Do you think having to punt on that possession was due to the failure of the run game?? Yes, or no...... you can explain your answer if you want, but it isn't necessary.

You can't take the two carries he had in one drive and average them out. He had zero yards on his first carry which puts us in second and long, had he picked up even 3 or 4 yards it puts us at 2nd and 6 or 7 instead of 2nd and 10. And getting zero yards on one carry I do consider a failure.