Carr Bomb said:Does anybody find anything ironic with this statement.
Bobo with every post you put up, you appear to be a bigger fool.
Hmm. Seems to me there is no football content here whatsoever. I'll take that as an admission of surrender.
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Carr Bomb said:Does anybody find anything ironic with this statement.
Bobo with every post you put up, you appear to be a bigger fool.
Marcus said:Jason Babin and Phillip Buchanon. Those two players.
I really wish I knew the real story, or who it was that really wanted these two players, and the thinking that went into it. But until I do, I really don't know who should be "blamed" for the past.
I bet if you took a poll as to who you blame more . . . Capers or Casserly, I'm willing to bet it would fall somewhere around 50/50 . . .
"Bottom line . . it was a 2-14 season."
Well, that's informative.But it doesn't tell me squat. How bout giving me some more information, rather than 'rumors', so I can tell who is really to blame, and who is the scapegoat.
There is one very big untold story about this team. Maybe one of these days, I'll find out what it is.
TwoAndFourteen said:I just hope when Carr stinks up the joint for the 5th straight year, we dont keep making excuses for the kid....let another team tap his 'potential'...i want a winner
VY FTW
doug from the woodlands
TwinSisters said:Those dudes at Profootballtalk... those dudes... I got an ear full of that at my cooler too. We'll see.
It's gonna be a long summer
---
It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.
TwinSisters said:I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.
Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna.
The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.
PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.
Texans_Chick said:Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.
Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:
1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.
1a. Smith is young, talented, and experienced. Add the fact that he is a black NFL executive and you hit the proverbial home run. I like having a qualified minority as GM, it at least shows we can think progressively.
2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.
2a. Very true, I do like the fact he played QB and knows that it aint all lollipops and rainbows.
3. Turning the Texans into Bronco's south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.
3a. This always happens when you try and migrate a system between teams. It took a while for Holmgren to get things rolling but did eventually get to the SB, whereas Mariucci fell flat on his butt in Detroit. It all comes down to talent in the end and with Carr behind center I aint holding my breath for a Holmgren like scenario.
4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.
It is HARD to coach an expansion team?!?! cmon now, now that you are writing for the Chronicle, dont let that turn you into a softie..i dont know where to start with that comment, so i wont...
5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.
The Texans used to keep things close in the past and lose close games but last year they were embarassed in quite a few of the games and basically quit
6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.
Capers did a horrible job developing talent which was why he was brought in to coach an expansion team. Very few players have improved under Caper's regime..in some cases players regressed
7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.
I actually am optimistic about Moulds' because the Bills have been in as bad of a tailspin as the Texans. I think a new start could be really beneficial to him as well as our team, I do worry about injuries on him though..he is at that age that WR's start breakin down
8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.
We dont even have a proven NFL Franchise type QB much less depth
9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.
I agree with that 199%
Texans_Chick said:Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.
Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:
1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.
2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.
3. Turning the Texans into Broncos south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.
4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.
5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.
6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.
7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.
8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.
9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.
So there ya go Bobo, I acknowledged your point of view without agreeing to it. Let's agree to disagree on some of these points.
Ultimately, decisions have already been made. Bobo doesn't like em, others do. It is like anything in life, people disagree. Bobo isn't excited about next season, at least 14,000 people who showed up at Reliant Stadium this weekend in June are and many more.
Personally, I don't care for piling on Capers any more either, but c'mon everyone, let's move on and try to stay forward focused. The new stuff we are doing might work immediately, might take a while to implement, or might not work at all.
We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league.
tsip said:"We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league."
...ok, so what is a forum or blog for? What is the reality now? And who determines what the reality is? I've noticed there is far more traffic here when there is controversy and difference of opinion than when everything is ststus quo. JMO, but I don't think you can turn a forum/blog on/off based on one persons opinion.
Vinny said:We have always had more lurkers than registered members. The longer we have kept this place 'family friendly' the more lurkers and members we seem to attract as each month and year passes. I've been a bit amazed with our traffic to tell the truth, but it just further proves the point that if you run a clean, no bully, no troll, no nonsense NFL fan society board, football fans will tune in and stay tuned in. Yeah, there are problems here and there, but we break up the problems as they pop up and it is impossible to keep anonymous people 100% responsible in a real-time environment.
Also, as a lurker, you cannot see anything but football talk/forums. Our site doesn't focus on anything but football unless you join, so the focus stays squarely on football and doesn't come across as some nilly-willy party board full of kids. I think we have a ton of media, fans, Houstonians and football fans in general lurking here since we keep it friendly, on-topic and peaceful.
well, thats my .02 cents
Bobo said:Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?
Mr. ExcitementBobo said:...a man who brought excitement and electricity to this city --
Bobo said:Did Capers say this or are you putting words into his mouth? I would guess it would be the latter. And your "bottom line" assessment was way out to lunch. You seem to make assertions without any facts to back you up. Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.
bayoudreamn said:There have been several comments made in this board about injuries that resulted from poor management of practice and game management from coaches. I haven't seen any information to prove that but it's one thing to consider. I think in the NFL today coaching is far more complex than we could ever imagine and it's not unreasonable to consider the possibility that the schedule coaches control regarding player practice and game participation could impact injuries. I think part of good coaching is good management of player activity on the field.....big picture, not just on gameday.
dougfromthewoodlands said:It is HARD to coach an expansion team?!?! cmon now, now that you are writing for the Chronicle, dont let that turn you into a softie..i dont know where to start with that comment, so i wont...
Bobo said:Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?
bayoudreamn said:This is an opinion. This is not a fact. There are no facts in the above quote. Before you call something a fact, please look up the word in a dictionary. Ask your local librarian if you need further assistance.
Kaiser Toro said:Capers Chagrined? So was I. He leaving Houston was a great thing for his career and the Texans, they were an awful match.
Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.
infantrycak said:Nice job. TC was trying to actually support you and your response is to be rude. Real class act there Titan troll.
Bobo said:If you don't understand the fact that it takes time to build a consistent winner when you are starting from scratch, then perhaps you should talk to a NO fan. You know how long it took them to get a winning team? Try 20 years. That's right, 20 years.
Lucky said:Mr. Excitement
![]()
Feel the Electricity!!!
![]()
Lucky said:Mr. Excitement
![]()
Feel the Electricity!!!
![]()
Bobo said:Yeah, right. 7-9 in the team's third year of existence was an awful match. You may very well rue the day he "rode into the sunset" after a few seasons of Kubiak.
Bobo said:Rude or correcting the facts? And I do believe we talked about this "Titan troll" stuff a while back and you agreed it was NOT true.
Bobo said:Calling a comparison "insane" is not dealing with the issue. Failure to deal with the comparison duly noted. You just tapped out.
Bobo said:Hmm. Seems to me there is no football content here whatsoever. I'll take that as an admission of surrender.
I love the Texans, Bobo. Love them. Attended many, many games (not all). But it's been the fans that have brought the lion's share of excitement at Reliant. Capers' unimaginative offense and passive defense made the Texans the most unwatchable team in the NFL. It pains me to say that. Hopefully, that's about to change.Bobo said:Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.
Kaiser Toro said:Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.
.Scot from Jacksonville: I understand and respect the importance of history and NFL pioneers, but if you were to take them out of contention and consider, say, the 1980's or 1990's onward, who would be the revolutionaries, relatively speaking, as far as players and coaches go?
Vic: Bill Walsh is the first name that would come to mind, but he had introduced a lot of the concepts of his west coast offense as Paul Brown's offensive coordinator, so, who gets the credit? Vic Fangio and Dom Capers and all of the zone-blitz boys revolutionized defense. I'm not ready to say Bill Belichick is a pioneer because when did teamwork become a revolutionary concept? I won't give Belichick credit for cutting veterans in favor of young players for the purpose of saving salary cap money because long ago coaches traded veterans for draft choices and replaced those veterans with young players. There's only so much that can be invented before everything's been invented. The pioneers had an open field. Walsh is the most revolutionary coach of the last 25 years. Lawrence Taylor is the most revolutionary player
Bobo said:To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.
Bobo said:Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.
TwinSisters said:Ahh Grasshopper... if it was only that easy. He's still young and he has many friends. We see him week 4 for a showdown on Reliant turf. I am not really wanting to type this because we got a Phin in the water so to speak, but if Saban takes it to the house with Capers on board... it's gonna sting.
From Jaguar HQ
.
Walsh, then Brown, followed by Capers.... yes it makes me giggle... but hey!
bayoudreamn said:I agree. The pictures above this quote were pictures of capers....obviously someone who hasn't been attending games the last few years.
Kaiser Toro said:You cannot deny his legacy in the NFL for his schemes as an assistant coach. However, in the land of the Houston Texans we know of him as Head Coach and that is how the discourse goes down here. We do not disrespect the man nor his work prior to him being the HC here, but we do cast some soft venom his way when we think about the product that was put on the field and could not execute, specifically on his great defensive scheme.
He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.
Bobo said:Where were you in 2004?
Carr Bomb said:Where were you in 1989, I was rocking in the New Year at some skating ring....![]()
This is the NFL, your only as good as your last season, especially when you go 2-14 and all your schemes are a extreme failure week in and week out.
Before you say Holmgren, Cowher, or any other Head Coach that doesn't deserve being compared to Capers, They actually had a history of winning. A history of winning affords you to have a down season now and then. Capers has a history of losing and this argument is so stupid I think I'm losing brain cells. I can't believe I'm sitting here trying to convince a Texan fan Capers should've been fired, its beyond me and then you have the nerve to question if some fans watched games last year. Did you happen to push pause on your "2004" season and actually tune in to see a game last year?
Bobo said:Capers had a history of success with a franchise from scratch from 2002-4
Bobo said:I can't believe you wouldn't agree that Capers should be given another chance after one bad season just like Paul Brown, Cowher and Holmgren had.
Kaiser Toro said:He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.
Bobo said:Where were you in 2004? I don't recall these kinds of comments from ANYBODY on this board or anywhere, for that matter, following that season. You can criticize 2005 all you want, but if you do that without giving him credit for what he did in 2002-4 is simply disingenuous, unfair and unjust.
Carr Bomb said:![]()
A 16-32 record is not success, it was good enough to keep his job over the offseason, but the 2-14 season where his defensive players came out and spoke against his 3-4 scheme, which was supposed to be his bread and butter got him fired.
Its that lowered expectations thing again.
You need to raise your expectations of this team, if you except mediocrity you will alway be mediocre.
Believe it and for the love of God stop comparing Capers to great coaches, your doing a disservice to them. Capers doesn't even compare.
Some things are inexcusable and the 2-14 season he put up was unexceptable.
Bill Callahan coached the Radiers to a superbowl, but the season that followed was unexceptable. a 16-32 record followed by a 2-14 season would get any coach in this league fired, get over it or become a Dolphins fan
Bobo said:When you are dealing with an expansion team in its early years, winning ANY games is a success. Just ask the Tampa Bay Bucs if you doubt that. A record of 7-9 for an expansion team is far, far from mediocre.
Bobo said:Speaking of the 3-4, I don't know why you speak about it with such venomwhen there are a lot of NFL teams that are using it, including the NE Pats from what I understand -- and they have won a few Super Bowls, as I recall.
Bobo said:Capers and the three coaches I mention is legit.
Bobo said:if he went 14-2 he would get a good chunk of the credit so if you go 2-14 you deserve a good chunk of the blame as well. And I'm sure even Capers would agree with that.
Bobo said:However, Cowher deserved a good deal of blame for the team going from 13-3 in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- yet he wasn't fired
jerek said:I was wondering how this thread packed in another four pages in as many hours since I last looked at it.
Then the answer came to me.
Bobo.
You are persistent if nothing else, dude.
Bobo said:To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.
Bobo said:Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years, including two road games vs. Jax and the Bears where that defense you criticize so much allowed just five points total in those two games. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.
This is Capers second time as a Head coach with a new franchise, the hope was he had learned from his past mistakes when he was hired here to start up this one. Unfortunately he had similar results as Carolina did here with the Texans. They said they were going tochange things and use a different plan, but Capers used almost the same blueprint as before - vets on defense, rookies on Offense and it came out almost the same way again. Is that coincidence or is it part of Capers philosophy as a coach
The fact remains, Kubiak & company cut Banks. Kubiak was hired in Jan, Banks was released in Feb. So I don't know what you thinking but essentially Kubiak replaced Banks with Rosenfels. Sorry, you lose again.Bobo said:A.) Banks was cut and Ragone was the #2 guy at the time ole Sage was brought in, so let's not try to make this bad move sound better by claiming it was a Banks for Rosenfels trade.
And I quoted you Wells and Smiths stats as well, Smith had a higher yards per carry than Wells did last year. What are you not getting? He also brings better clubhouse intangibles that Wells can not. Just because Smith has been with a few teams over the years doesn't mean he's bad. I don't think Wells is even on a team right now so he isn't allowed to be labled as a "washout", we'll have to wait until the start of training camps to officially label his as a "has been". Trust me, he isn't pushing anyone to be a starter. I'd be surprised if he even made a team this year. That's a pretty weak argument you are making for a player who played the worst team last year and won't be picked up by anyone.Bobo said:B.) I quoted you the stats regarding Wells and Smith. Assuming you hadn't heard, Smith has washed out four separate times after being a first rounder. As a sub, Wells is just as good as Smith and proved it by what he did vs. the Cardinals.
Gaffney was given a chance last season after 3 unsuccessful attempts to displace Bradford and Gaffney pretty much feel way short. I don't even see how you can compare Moulds vs Gaffney, Moulds is a 3 time Pro Bowler. Decline? He had a very miniscule slide in production of a whopping 208 yards and 2 TD's from the last two years compared to the previous 2 years. Did you factor in that the production loss is attested to a new coach and scheme (who is no longer with the team) and a new QB (who is fighting just to keep is starting job)? Even so, he production numbers speak for themselves, Moulds doubled the production of Gaffney, a guy who pushing a guy who had 1 total TD last year in Philadelphia. And as far as your whole "detrimental to the team" take, well it plain as day that it wasn't, Moulds returned from that suspension in top form, finishing with 27 catches for 305 yards and a touchdown in the final three games and Mularkey was sent packing. Moulds was a cap casualty. Head coaches are not cap casualties, they are performance casualties, so Moulds may have been in the right (see Jaime Sharper).Bobo said:I do believe that Gaffney was ahead of Bradford on the depth chart last year, and you could make a weak argument that Moulds may be better than Bradford (certainly not Gaffney) but that argument gets shot to heck when you look at the boatload of money the Texans paid for a quitter who was suspended for conduct detrimental to the team last year, not to mention many of his #s are in decline.
You can believe what you want, but it is what it is. Kubiak brings proven philosophy from way back in the days of Bill Walsh, utilizing every weapon available, something that Capers was unable to do. This is just facts.Bobo said:Also, I believe it's a stretch to bring in pass receiving for fullbacks into this argument since, with the Texans, the first order of business would be TO KEEP FOLKS OFF CARR and to open holes for Davis. Besides, Davis is the guy Carr would go to out of the backfield. With any kind of rush coming on Carr, I can't actually believe you would send both the fullback AND the tailback AND the TE out on pass routes. That kind of strategy will cause the necessity to challenge Rosenfels's mettle very, very early on in the season.
infantrycak said:Geez folks, can't you get the drift from statements like this.
STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!