Capers Chagrined

[Bobo]

Does anybody find anything ironic with this statement.

Bobo with every post you put up, you appear to be a bigger fool.

Hmm. Seems to me there is no football content here whatsoever. I'll take that as an admission of surrender.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Jason Babin and Phillip Buchanon. Those two players.

I really wish I knew the real story, or who it was that really wanted these two players, and the thinking that went into it. But until I do, I really don't know who should be "blamed" for the past.

I bet if you took a poll as to who you blame more . . . Capers or Casserly, I'm willing to bet it would fall somewhere around 50/50 . . .

"Bottom line . . it was a 2-14 season."

Well, that's informative. But it doesn't tell me squat. How bout giving me some more information, rather than 'rumors', so I can tell who is really to blame, and who is the scapegoat.

There is one very big untold story about this team. Maybe one of these days, I'll find out what it is.

Accountability. Accountability. Accountability. During the previous regime, a culture of apologism permeated the whole team. No one was ever held accountable for shortcomings and outright failures. Babin, PBuc, Ragone, Joppru, Hollins, and most importantly Carr are all at this point complete disappointments and we dont even know who wanted who. And the lack of honesty that has been displayed by this team since its inception contributes to that fact. Its bad karma not being honest with yourself and your fans.

Does Casserley have compromising pictures of McNair or something? The fact that that guy got to preside alongside the new regime at the last draft was an embarassment and on the days leading up to draft day were a testament to how community college that guy is...get the deal done loser...you resign carr and then dont even draft bush? omg what a flatliner. Here is what should have happened post 2-14...

Capers and Casserley should have both been fired the day after the season
Carr's option not picked up and admit that it was a bad draft pick
You hire Al Saunders and draft Vince Young
You have Tony Banks play the first few games of year so VY isnt just thrown to the dogs Week 1
You resign Wells (one of the few guys that showed heart in backfield and special teams)
You hire the guy that Al Saunders wants to run the front office

If you do that, this city is on fire right now. What do we have now? Another season where we are expected to actually be optimistic about a team whose ownership isnt even honest with their own fans or themselves. Call me crazy but at least Bud Adams did whatever it takes to get the best team on the field..did it always work? no but at least he was honest when it didnt and wouldnt try and sugarcoat everythign so as not to hurt peoples feelings or make the organization look bad....2-14 was bad, the organization already looks bad....fire people when they fail and you show accountability to the players that actually perform and arent overpaid cretins

I hope for the best this year in my heart, but logic tells me to get ready for another embarassment of a season. I just hope when Carr stinks up the joint for the 5th straight year, we dont keep making excuses for the kid....let another team tap his 'potential'...i want a winner

VY FTW

doug from the woodlands

 

[FILO_girl]

I just hope when Carr stinks up the joint for the 5th straight year, we dont keep making excuses for the kid....let another team tap his 'potential'...i want a winner

VY FTW

doug from the woodlands

Oh lord, I thought I heard a familiar squeeky wheel coming around the bend.
Darn bandwagons. This one is worse than the 'other bandwagon'.

I hope the VY bandwagon gets a blow out soon. Oy.
Hey, were you banned dude? Remember your rhetoric and identity, but sure is a new screen name.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.

Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:

1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.

2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.

3. Turning the Texans into Broncos south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.

4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.

5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.

6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.

7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.

8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.

9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.


So there ya go Bobo, I acknowledged your point of view without agreeing to it. Let's agree to disagree on some of these points.

Ultimately, decisions have already been made. Bobo doesn't like em, others do. It is like anything in life, people disagree. Bobo isn't excited about next season, at least 14,000 people who showed up at Reliant Stadium this weekend in June are and many more.

Personally, I don't care for piling on Capers any more either, but c'mon everyone, let's move on and try to stay forward focused. The new stuff we are doing might work immediately, might take a while to implement, or might not work at all.

We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league.

 

[bayoudreamn]

Those dudes at Profootballtalk... those dudes... I got an ear full of that at my cooler too. We'll see.

It's gonna be a long summer
---
It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.

No, it's like they were playing as if they were in the second week of training camp, but it was in reality week 10+ of the regular season. A rudderless ship rarely gets to where it's meant to go.

 

[tsip]

"We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league."

...ok, so what is a forum or blog for? What is the reality now? And who determines what the reality is? I've noticed there is far more traffic here when there is controversy and difference of opinion than when everything is ststus quo. JMO, but I don't think you can turn a forum/blog on/off based on one persons opinion.

 

[bayoudreamn]

I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna.

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.

There have been several comments made in this board about injuries that resulted from poor management of practice and game management from coaches. I haven't seen any information to prove that but it's one thing to consider. I think in the NFL today coaching is far more complex than we could ever imagine and it's not unreasonable to consider the possibility that the schedule coaches control regarding player practice and game participation could impact injuries. I think part of good coaching is good management of player activity on the field.....big picture, not just on gameday.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.

Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:

1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.
1a. Smith is young, talented, and experienced. Add the fact that he is a black NFL executive and you hit the proverbial home run. I like having a qualified minority as GM, it at least shows we can think progressively.

2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.
2a. Very true, I do like the fact he played QB and knows that it aint all lollipops and rainbows.

3. Turning the Texans into Bronco's south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.
3a. This always happens when you try and migrate a system between teams. It took a while for Holmgren to get things rolling but did eventually get to the SB, whereas Mariucci fell flat on his butt in Detroit. It all comes down to talent in the end and with Carr behind center I aint holding my breath for a Holmgren like scenario.

4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.
It is HARD to coach an expansion team?!?! cmon now, now that you are writing for the Chronicle, dont let that turn you into a softie..i dont know where to start with that comment, so i wont...

5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.
The Texans used to keep things close in the past and lose close games but last year they were embarassed in quite a few of the games and basically quit

6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.
Capers did a horrible job developing talent which was why he was brought in to coach an expansion team. Very few players have improved under Caper's regime..in some cases players regressed

7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.
I actually am optimistic about Moulds' because the Bills have been in as bad of a tailspin as the Texans. I think a new start could be really beneficial to him as well as our team, I do worry about injuries on him though..he is at that age that WR's start breakin down

8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.
We dont even have a proven NFL Franchise type QB much less depth

9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.
I agree with that 199%

I agree that what we got is what we got and its reality, but I think we also need to have a vision to the past so that we dont repeat past failures and we can lay praise AND blame on those responsible. Lets just stop coddling everyone and acting like things are great. We lack depth at every skill position and look to be gaining depth on both lines. it is a longterm recipe for success but I just dont know if longterm strategies can even be used in the NFL anymore. It is a fast moving high turnover league nowadays with even the most successful franchises shuttling players in and out yearly ad not worrying about people's feelings getting hurt or reputations damaged. I just want to win and I hope and pray this hometown kid can make dreams come true in Houston

doug from the woodlands

- wasnt banned or anything, i just lost password and the dang forum wouldnt send me my pw, so i had to create a new account. -

 

[Bobo]

Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.

Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:

1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.

2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.

3. Turning the Texans into Broncos south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.

4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.

5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.

6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.

7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.

8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.

9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.


So there ya go Bobo, I acknowledged your point of view without agreeing to it. Let's agree to disagree on some of these points.

Ultimately, decisions have already been made. Bobo doesn't like em, others do. It is like anything in life, people disagree. Bobo isn't excited about next season, at least 14,000 people who showed up at Reliant Stadium this weekend in June are and many more.

Personally, I don't care for piling on Capers any more either, but c'mon everyone, let's move on and try to stay forward focused. The new stuff we are doing might work immediately, might take a while to implement, or might not work at all.

We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league.

Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?

 

[Texans_Chick]

"We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league."

...ok, so what is a forum or blog for? What is the reality now? And who determines what the reality is? I've noticed there is far more traffic here when there is controversy and difference of opinion than when everything is ststus quo. JMO, but I don't think you can turn a forum/blog on/off based on one persons opinion.

I kinda like this explanation: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=361470#post361470

We have always had more lurkers than registered members. The longer we have kept this place 'family friendly' the more lurkers and members we seem to attract as each month and year passes. I've been a bit amazed with our traffic to tell the truth, but it just further proves the point that if you run a clean, no bully, no troll, no nonsense NFL fan society board, football fans will tune in and stay tuned in. Yeah, there are problems here and there, but we break up the problems as they pop up and it is impossible to keep anonymous people 100% responsible in a real-time environment.

Also, as a lurker, you cannot see anything but football talk/forums. Our site doesn't focus on anything but football unless you join, so the focus stays squarely on football and doesn't come across as some nilly-willy party board full of kids. I think we have a ton of media, fans, Houstonians and football fans in general lurking here since we keep it friendly, on-topic and peaceful.

well, thats my .02 cents

Ultimately, if this thread turns too ridiculous, it will get locked. My post was just an attempt to reduce the WWE aspects of the thread.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?

Apologies. Just an attempt at trying to understand where you were coming from. I think I understand better now.

Have a lovely evening.

 

[Lucky]

...a man who brought excitement and electricity to this city --

Mr. Excitement

Feel the Electricity!!!

 

[bayoudreamn]

Did Capers say this or are you putting words into his mouth? I would guess it would be the latter. And your "bottom line" assessment was way out to lunch. You seem to make assertions without any facts to back you up. Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.

This is an opinion. This is not a fact. There are no facts in the above quote. Before you call something a fact, please look up the word in a dictionary. Ask your local librarian if you need further assistance.

 

[TwinSisters]

There have been several comments made in this board about injuries that resulted from poor management of practice and game management from coaches. I haven't seen any information to prove that but it's one thing to consider. I think in the NFL today coaching is far more complex than we could ever imagine and it's not unreasonable to consider the possibility that the schedule coaches control regarding player practice and game participation could impact injuries. I think part of good coaching is good management of player activity on the field.....big picture, not just on gameday.

Right on I agree. I don't talk about that much though because it's so hard to know what is going on in practice. Meaning you can compare teams where you see them play all the time in a semi-controlled setting of a game, but practice? No telling what different teams do.

One thing is for certain though... the more you play, the greater your chance of being injured in a given year. Super Bowl teams typically have more injuries in the next season. So if games do it, practice certainly can add to it.

( can't blame it on the Astroturf though! LOL... one for the old folks )

EDIT:

And dammit I said BLOWN not blow ... BLOWN. Pack yer bags editor. I am sending you to Miami to rehab with Saban.

 

[Texans_Chick]

It is HARD to coach an expansion team?!?! cmon now, now that you are writing for the Chronicle, dont let that turn you into a softie..i dont know where to start with that comment, so i wont...

As I said, I was trying to paraphrase what Bobo's main points were. There are certainly rational arguments you can make to support that particular opinion.

BTW, I do not write for the Chronicle. I am not an employee nor do I draw a paycheck. They just host the fanblog.

 

[infantrycak]

Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?

Nice job. TC was trying to actually support you and your response is to be rude. Real class act there Titan troll.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Capers Chagrined? So was I. He leaving Houston was a great thing for his career and the Texans, they were an awful match.

Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.

 

[Bobo]

This is an opinion. This is not a fact. There are no facts in the above quote. Before you call something a fact, please look up the word in a dictionary. Ask your local librarian if you need further assistance.

To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.

 

[Bobo]

Capers Chagrined? So was I. He leaving Houston was a great thing for his career and the Texans, they were an awful match.

Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.

Yeah, right. 7-9 in the team's third year of existence was an awful match. You may very well rue the day he "rode into the sunset" after a few seasons of Kubiak.

 

[Bobo]

Nice job. TC was trying to actually support you and your response is to be rude. Real class act there Titan troll.

Rude or correcting the facts? And I do believe we talked about this "Titan troll" stuff a while back and you agreed it was NOT true.

 

[bayoudreamn]

If you don't understand the fact that it takes time to build a consistent winner when you are starting from scratch, then perhaps you should talk to a NO fan. You know how long it took them to get a winning team? Try 20 years. That's right, 20 years.

Actually....it took 30 years. And do you know how many coaches they fired in that 30 years?

 

[Bobo]

Mr. Excitement

Feel the Electricity!!!

Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.

 

[bayoudreamn]

Mr. Excitement

Feel the Electricity!!!

ROFL...

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Yeah, right. 7-9 in the team's third year of existence was an awful match. You may very well rue the day he "rode into the sunset" after a few seasons of Kubiak.

7-9 is one win short of 50%. In fact his whole career in the NFL as a Head Coach he has been below 50%. In most businesses 3 years would be a trend with 12 quarters of data. Here we have 8 years of work and the results show that he is not a successful Head Coach at this level. But hey you may not measure success with the number in the win column.

You point to 7-9 as the benchmark year. And I will say that is unacceptable. Of course you will amplify that with Expansion. Then I will come back and say he went to the Championship with Carolina and this shows that it was a fluke because that was his only winning season. Then you and I will be done with our dialogue in this thread.

 

[infantrycak]

Rude or correcting the facts? And I do believe we talked about this "Titan troll" stuff a while back and you agreed it was NOT true.

Nice try at making up facts. The only thing which has changed this evening was in addition to thinking you are an annoying troll, it is now clear you are a rude annoying troll.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Calling a comparison "insane" is not dealing with the issue. Failure to deal with the comparison duly noted. You just tapped out.

Thats funny, that kind of talk is reserved for someone who's actually winning a argument, not someone who's being made a fool, by the entire board.

Me calling you insane, is me calling you insane, you know as in someone without reason that makes no sense.

Your statements make no sense, they are insane.

btw we weren't in a expansion year during the 7-9 record and please for the love of god let that go that was 2 years ago and it wasn't even a winning record.

A 7-9 record doesn't afford you to go 2-14 and keep your job

 

[Brandon420tx]

Hmm. Seems to me there is no football content here whatsoever. I'll take that as an admission of surrender.

Who comes on a message board with the mindset to make other posters quit posting? Thats counter-productive in my opinion, but then again some of your post don't produce much productivity, they could even be viewed as attempts to hinder the message board.

I agree with the posters who think that Capers should be a dead topic on this board, we're entering a new era. We're basically trudging around in the dark searching for info about our team, but at least the HC is setting out a lot of oil lamps for us to wander towards. One thing you can't say about Kubiak, is that he hasn't been active this off-season.


Oh, and I'll add this for "football content",

During a fieldgoal, a longsnapper (a person who tries to snap the football a considerable distance accurately to the holder) launches the ball the holder (Self explanatory, the holder holds the ball so that its just right for the kicker) who does his darndest to catch it an position the ball so that when the kicker (Kicks the ball towards the 2 goal posts as hard as he can while trying to keep the ball from veering too far to the left or right) pelts the ball, it will go straight ahead and through the up-rights. Shwing!


Brandon from the katy area.

 

[Lucky]

Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.

I love the Texans, Bobo. Love them. Attended many, many games (not all). But it's been the fans that have brought the lion's share of excitement at Reliant. Capers' unimaginative offense and passive defense made the Texans the most unwatchable team in the NFL. It pains me to say that. Hopefully, that's about to change.

 

[TwinSisters]

Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.

Ahh Grasshopper... if it was only that easy. He's still young and he has many friends. We see him week 4 for a showdown on Reliant turf. I am not really wanting to type this because we got a Phin in the water so to speak, but if Saban takes it to the house with Capers on board... it's gonna sting.


From Jaguar HQ

Scot from Jacksonville: I understand and respect the importance of history and NFL pioneers, but if you were to take them out of contention and consider, say, the 1980's or 1990's onward, who would be the revolutionaries, relatively speaking, as far as players and coaches go?
Vic: Bill Walsh is the first name that would come to mind, but he had introduced a lot of the concepts of his west coast offense as Paul Brown's offensive coordinator, so, who gets the credit? Vic Fangio and Dom Capers and all of the zone-blitz boys revolutionized defense. I'm not ready to say Bill Belichick is a pioneer because when did teamwork become a revolutionary concept? I won't give Belichick credit for cutting veterans in favor of young players for the purpose of saving salary cap money because long ago coaches traded veterans for draft choices and replaced those veterans with young players. There's only so much that can be invented before everything's been invented. The pioneers had an open field. Walsh is the most revolutionary coach of the last 25 years. Lawrence Taylor is the most revolutionary player

.

Walsh, then Brown, followed by Capers.... yes it makes me giggle... but hey!

 

[bayoudreamn]

To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.

I'll take that vague difference. The point is, it's not a "fact" which you said it was so you admit that you were wrong.

Admission noted.

 

[bayoudreamn]

Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.

I agree. The pictures above this quote were pictures of capers....obviously someone who hasn't been attending games the last few years.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Ahh Grasshopper... if it was only that easy. He's still young and he has many friends. We see him week 4 for a showdown on Reliant turf. I am not really wanting to type this because we got a Phin in the water so to speak, but if Saban takes it to the house with Capers on board... it's gonna sting.


From Jaguar HQ

.

Walsh, then Brown, followed by Capers.... yes it makes me giggle... but hey!

You cannot deny his legacy in the NFL for his schemes as an assistant coach. However, in the land of the Houston Texans we know of him as Head Coach and that is how the discourse goes down here. We do not disrespect the man nor his work prior to him being the HC here, but we do cast some soft venom his way when we think about the product that was put on the field and could not execute, specifically on his great defensive scheme.

He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.

 

[Bobo]

I agree. The pictures above this quote were pictures of capers....obviously someone who hasn't been attending games the last few years.

Not much of a response, seeing that everyone that has been following the thread knew exactly what the gist of the matter was.

 

[Bobo]

You cannot deny his legacy in the NFL for his schemes as an assistant coach. However, in the land of the Houston Texans we know of him as Head Coach and that is how the discourse goes down here. We do not disrespect the man nor his work prior to him being the HC here, but we do cast some soft venom his way when we think about the product that was put on the field and could not execute, specifically on his great defensive scheme.

He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.

Where were you in 2004? I don't recall these kinds of comments from ANYBODY on this board or anywhere, for that matter, following that season. You can criticize 2005 all you want, but if you do that without giving him credit for what he did in 2002-4 is simply disingenuous, unfair and unjust.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Where were you in 2004?

Where were you in 1989, I was rocking in the New Year at some skating ring....

This is the NFL, your only as good as your last season, especially when you go 2-14 and all your schemes are a extreme failure week in and week out.

Before you say Holmgren, Cowher, or any other Head Coach that doesn't deserve being compared to Capers, They actually had a history of winning. A history of winning affords you to have a down season now and then. Capers has a history of losing and this argument is so stupid I think I'm losing brain cells. I can't believe I'm sitting here trying to convince a Texan fan Capers should've been fired, its beyond me and then you have the nerve to question if some fans watched games last year. Did you happen to push pause on your "2004" season replays and actually tune in to see a game last year?

 

[Bobo]

Where were you in 1989, I was rocking in the New Year at some skating ring....

This is the NFL, your only as good as your last season, especially when you go 2-14 and all your schemes are a extreme failure week in and week out.

Before you say Holmgren, Cowher, or any other Head Coach that doesn't deserve being compared to Capers, They actually had a history of winning. A history of winning affords you to have a down season now and then. Capers has a history of losing and this argument is so stupid I think I'm losing brain cells. I can't believe I'm sitting here trying to convince a Texan fan Capers should've been fired, its beyond me and then you have the nerve to question if some fans watched games last year. Did you happen to push pause on your "2004" season and actually tune in to see a game last year?

Capers had a history of success with a franchise from scratch from 2002-4 and if you deny that then, well, I guess you are correct -- you are losing brain cells. Can't disagree with that! And you know, I can't believe you wouldn't agree that Capers should be given another chance after one bad season just like Paul Brown, Cowher and Holmgren had. They all had bad seasons and they were all given a chance to bounce back -- and they did exactly that. Oh, nobody is denying that the 2005 season was a setback. But the 2003 season for the Steelers was a setback as well. FYI, I was there at every game -- something an awful lot of so-called Texans fans who had season tickets and didn't even bother to show up can't say. To this day, I can't believe folks would actually spend money for tickets -- and those tickets aren't cheap, mind you -- and then not even bother to show up and use what they paid for! And what's even more incredible, these so-called "fans" began to abandon the team before the season even hit the halfway mark! To this day, I am still incredulous about that. And as I have also said before, I felt really bad about every single loss -- possibly even worse than Capers, if that's possible. But I was also there for 2002-4 and the excitement and electricity this man brought to Reliant Stadium. Yeah, I was there when the stadium was rocking and forced all kinds of delay of game penalties. And I was there when Capers gave the game ball to the fans. My memory is not short as is apparently the case of many others. And since I remember 2002-4, it was only just that Capers should have been given the same chance that Paul Brown, Mike Holmgren and Cowher received to right the ship after all he had accomplished with a team from scratch. Two sad things about that: A.) He was never given that chance B.) I doubt that same excitement and electricity will be in Reliant Stadium for many, many years to come.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Capers had a history of success with a franchise from scratch from 2002-4

A 16-32 record is not success, it was good enough to keep his job over the offseason, but the 2-14 season where his defensive players came out and spoke against his 3-4 scheme, which was supposed to be his bread and butter got him fired.

Its that lowered expectations thing again.

You need to raise your expectations of this team, if you except mediocrity you will always be mediocre.

I can't believe you wouldn't agree that Capers should be given another chance after one bad season just like Paul Brown, Cowher and Holmgren had.

Believe it and for the love of God stop comparing Capers to great coaches, your doing a disservice to them. Capers doesn't even compare.

Some things are inexcusable and the 2-14 season he put up was unexceptable.

Bill Callahan coached the Radiers to a superbowl, but the season that followed was unexceptable. a 16-32 record followed by a 2-14 season would get any coach in this league fired, get over it or become a Dolphins fan

 

[TwinSisters]

He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.

Ah El Kaiser... there is the rub. To who's hand doth the salt pure forth?

If such a hand could sparkle with silver in a year's time, should not the wise lay blame on one that would surely not? Be you confused as you may by your disposition; pardon the hand that may not be empty for it could return and place misfortune on the hand that would surely not.

 

[Texans86]

Where were you in 2004? I don't recall these kinds of comments from ANYBODY on this board or anywhere, for that matter, following that season. You can criticize 2005 all you want, but if you do that without giving him credit for what he did in 2002-4 is simply disingenuous, unfair and unjust.

I love how you take Capers record in 2002 through 2004 and say he was a great coach. I agree with you that Capers had one of the hardest jobs in the NFL in taking on an expansion team in the salary cap era. It's a tough business. However, on many other posts you say that our coaching staff is extremely inexperienced, and have noted Mike Sherman's 4-12 record last season, showing that he obviously must be bad. However, his 12-4, 12-4, 10-6 and 10-6 seasons from 2001-2004 mean nothing. One logic for an argument cannot also be used against it in another situation just to help prove your point. If 16-32 is successful to you, so be it, but our new coaching staff has a coach who had eight more wins in half as many seasons. Capers is not coming back to Houston, unless he is another team's colors. It may be a hard pill to swallow, but that's how it is. Nearly everyone else is showing their support for the team, however I have hear nothing but negative comments from you. Everything they do is wrong by your standards. I'm not sure if they fired the entire coaching staff and re-hired everyone from last year if you'd be happy. Some here are overly optomistic, but also there are some who are reasonable with their expectations, such as another losing season next year, and another rough start. We're undefeated right now, soak it up.

 

[Bobo]

A 16-32 record is not success, it was good enough to keep his job over the offseason, but the 2-14 season where his defensive players came out and spoke against his 3-4 scheme, which was supposed to be his bread and butter got him fired.

Its that lowered expectations thing again.

You need to raise your expectations of this team, if you except mediocrity you will alway be mediocre.



Believe it and for the love of God stop comparing Capers to great coaches, your doing a disservice to them. Capers doesn't even compare.

Some things are inexcusable and the 2-14 season he put up was unexceptable.

Bill Callahan coached the Radiers to a superbowl, but the season that followed was unexceptable. a 16-32 record followed by a 2-14 season would get any coach in this league fired, get over it or become a Dolphins fan

When you are dealing with an expansion team in its early years, winning ANY games is a success. Just ask the Tampa Bay Bucs if you doubt that. A record of 7-9 for an expansion team is far, far from mediocre, as I have said on many occasions and which I firmly believe you assent to but for some reason won't say so publicly as is the case with many folks. Speaking of the 3-4, I don't know why you speak about it with such venom when there are a lot of NFL teams that are using it, including the NE Pats from what I understand -- and they have won a few Super Bowls, as I recall. And if you dare compare apples to apples, the comparison between Capers and the three coaches I mention is legit. The situations are similar in every instance, even though you may not want to acknowledge that. A 3-10-1 record didn't get Paul Brown fired, and two years later he won his division. BTW, this has nothing to do with "becoming a Dolphin fan" but has everything to do with fairness and justice. The guy was simply not treated fairly and to this day his accomplishments with this team have not been acknowledged. I have no problem with folks who criticize Capers 2005 season. I mean, after all, if he went 14-2 he would get a good chunk of the credit so if you go 2-14 you deserve a good chunk of the blame as well. And I'm sure even Capers would agree with that. However, Cowher deserved a good deal of blame for the team going from 13-3 in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- yet he wasn't fired and he had a heckuva lot more advantages going for him in regards to infrastructure and experience on his team than Capers did. Yet Capers is the one that got fired. Not right and not fair and not just. So, criticize Capers all you want for 2005. I have no problem with that and I'm sure he wouldn't either. But to not give him credit for 2002-4 is being revisionist, unfair and unjust to a man who has been unfairly maligned and, yes, mistreated after bringing an excitement and electricity to Houston that the city may never experience again for years and years to come.

 

[tsip]

"Ultimately, if this thread turns too ridiculous, it will get locked. My post was just an attempt to reduce the WWE aspects of the thread."
__________________
WOW! Thanks for the warning, guess I'll take your advice and try another board...outa here

 

[Carr Bombed]

When you are dealing with an expansion team in its early years, winning ANY games is a success. Just ask the Tampa Bay Bucs if you doubt that. A record of 7-9 for an expansion team is far, far from mediocre.

The Bucs played in a different Era, where there wasn't really FA or a Salary Cap, or a good expansion draft bad argument.

The 7-9 record didn't get him fired, the 2005 season did and I'm tired of saying that, get off the 7-9 record, it wasn't good enough from saving him from a 2-14 season.

Speaking of the 3-4, I don't know why you speak about it with such venomwhen there are a lot of NFL teams that are using it, including the NE Pats from what I understand -- and they have won a few Super Bowls, as I recall.

Now your trying to put words in my mouth, stop it. When did I speak about the 3-4 with such venom, please show me.

Capers and the three coaches I mention is legit.

No its not. The other Coaches already had great success where they coached their teams to Superbowls, won Superbowls/championships, in some cases and had great success in proven systems. When you do that you are allowed a down year when your going through a transition and building your team for another run, (Cowher, btw 6-10 is a scream from 2-14 and is one win less than your savior's golden season).

if he went 14-2 he would get a good chunk of the credit so if you go 2-14 you deserve a good chunk of the blame as well. And I'm sure even Capers would agree with that.

Finally your making sense, 2-14 gets you fired in this league, especially when your constantly being out coached, we had the most predictable team last year, tv analyst were calling out our plays.

However, Cowher deserved a good deal of blame for the team going from 13-3 in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- yet he wasn't fired

Superbowl and AFC Championship appearences and a proven system of football allows you that luxury. Why do you think Fisher hasn't been fired yet, He's a proven winner as a Head Coach, Capers is not.

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

Oh but Capers was "on the cust of an 8-8 season"
Yes we would have had a mediocre season in 2004 had we not been embarassed by the browns

 

[jerek]

I was wondering how this thread packed in another four pages in as many hours since I last looked at it.

Then the answer came to me.

Bobo.

You are persistent if nothing else, dude.

 

[Brandon420tx]

I was wondering how this thread packed in another four pages in as many hours since I last looked at it.

Then the answer came to me.

Bobo.

You are persistent if nothing else, dude.

I got on about an hour ago and saw a thread with 7 (Now 8) pages that I had never seen before, I clicked it to see what day it was posted and was shocked to see it say "4 hours", so my conclusion, its not that he's persistant, he just has nothing better to do.

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

And because of all the veterans and their high price tags the panthers went south quick.

 

[U4ikrob]

To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.

Actually hes talking about you Bobo and your assertion of facts - not mine.

Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years, including two road games vs. Jax and the Bears where that defense you criticize so much allowed just five points total in those two games. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.

I think statements are not facts Bobo - those are opinions just like mine.

And as to your query - Sorry it took me a bit to find the quote again -

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=221208023

It was David Carr whom said that quote about the team - not Capers. My mistake. However the statement I asserted is still true - the statement was made about the team - in this case by a player - its QB - Whom made thes statements about how he saw things on the field after a win. I'm inclined to go with his opinion as its closer to the source [Capers] than I am personally. That "Playing Not to lose" mentality sure came out in alot of Capers playcalling and coaching over his 4 years here though. I think a good example of that was the Cardinals game where David was allowed to call his own plays and led the offense to score 24 pts. But then the coaches took over and they never scored again - to me this totally reflects the "Not loose" mentality.

Just like you bobo - im allowed an opinion based on the perceptions I know about, have witnessed, watched or become informed of - but the bottom line is facts are independant of either of our opinions Bobo. - Thats a fact.

So bobo how is it you see a defense that averaged giving up 25 points in 0 4its most succesfull season as a good thing in development as a team? IT was certainly not improvement from before and it didnt get better in 05 either. I'm not comparing us to other franchises for comparison either, I'm just looking at performance on the field after 4 years of dev time. IMO in 04 the team had momentum and was building forward, but the coaches showed little faith in what got them there and totally changed schemes. The team was never the same afterward.

One more thing - I didnt say anything about Capers accomplishing nothing with the team. I know full well what hes done - unless youve forgotten ive watched the games too and attended training camp along with speaking to the man myself on more than one occasion. He obviously didnt do everything wrong here, nor am I trying to paint with that brush - so dont insinuate that. I talked about his problems with defense as it was his forte and his in-ability to get things done here. As stated above I thought he was a good man, but his philosophy on football didnt work here. Its one thing to say hey were an expansion team - we need time to develop depth, chemistry, schemes, etc etc... But after 4 years of cooking the defense - we come out worse than we start - thats regression. He had more than one chance with this team to get his specialty the defensive squad at least moving forward, yet even the veterans on the team started speaking out against the schemes and coaching to the point ownership had to become involved and make a business decision for its future.

Just to throw in some past perspective.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/12/28/archive/main26301.shtml

This is Capers second time as a Head coach with a new franchise, the hope was he had learned from his past mistakes when he was hired here to start up this one. Unfortunately he had similar results as Carolina did here with the Texans. They said they were going tochange things and use a different plan, but Capers used almost the same blueprint as before - vets on defense, rookies on Offense and well we all know those results - pretty much the same as before again. Is that coincidence or is it part of Capers philosophy as a coach. My 2 cents is its alot of the latter.

 

[ATX_Texan]

This is Capers second time as a Head coach with a new franchise, the hope was he had learned from his past mistakes when he was hired here to start up this one. Unfortunately he had similar results as Carolina did here with the Texans. They said they were going tochange things and use a different plan, but Capers used almost the same blueprint as before - vets on defense, rookies on Offense and it came out almost the same way again. Is that coincidence or is it part of Capers philosophy as a coach

This is my biggest complaint about Capers is that he never seemed to learn from his mistakes or was willing to change from his basic philosphy.

In Carolina, he created a new team around a veteran defense and tried to build the offense using the draft with the hope that the defense would tow the line until the offense caught up. Kerry Collins was sent out to learn on the fly behind a pretty poor line (though better than what C&C put together in Houston). The Panthers had a great deal of success in the second year based mainly on the success of the defense. However, the wheels came off soon after that when age and injuries ruined the defense. The offense never succeeded with the ultraconservative game plan and eventually the young quaterback burned out.

Did Capers learn from these mistakes? In a word, NO. Again, he built a veteran laden defense around a young offense. The difference was that the defense was ravaged by injuries in the second year this time around. Again, the offense stagnated under his "play not to lose philosphy". To compound his past mistakes, Capers even brought in his old buddy Pendry from his Carolina days and it was not a surprise to see another young quaterback regress just as before.

I believe Capers is a good defensive coordinator who can mold a good of veteran players into a pretty effective defensive in a relatively short time. His problem lies in the ability to teach younger players. Once injuries robbed the Texans of thier veteran leadership and he had to rely on the younger guys, Capers could not get them to run his defense. On offense, Capers has no clue and he does not seem to care. He never got past "Defense wins championships" and "there are three things that can happen when you pass and two of them are bad" philosphy.

His record with the Panthers is very much like that of that of the Texans. If don't learn from your mistakes, it is pretty certain that history will repeat itself and Capers is living proof of that.

 

[SESupergenius]

A.) Banks was cut and Ragone was the #2 guy at the time ole Sage was brought in, so let's not try to make this bad move sound better by claiming it was a Banks for Rosenfels trade.

The fact remains, Kubiak & company cut Banks. Kubiak was hired in Jan, Banks was released in Feb. So I don't know what you thinking but essentially Kubiak replaced Banks with Rosenfels. Sorry, you lose again.

B.) I quoted you the stats regarding Wells and Smith. Assuming you hadn't heard, Smith has washed out four separate times after being a first rounder. As a sub, Wells is just as good as Smith and proved it by what he did vs. the Cardinals.

And I quoted you Wells and Smiths stats as well, Smith had a higher yards per carry than Wells did last year. What are you not getting? He also brings better clubhouse intangibles that Wells can not. Just because Smith has been with a few teams over the years doesn't mean he's bad. I don't think Wells is even on a team right now so he isn't allowed to be labled as a "washout", we'll have to wait until the start of training camps to officially label his as a "has been". Trust me, he isn't pushing anyone to be a starter. I'd be surprised if he even made a team this year. That's a pretty weak argument you are making for a player who played the worst team last year and won't be picked up by anyone.

I do believe that Gaffney was ahead of Bradford on the depth chart last year, and you could make a weak argument that Moulds may be better than Bradford (certainly not Gaffney) but that argument gets shot to heck when you look at the boatload of money the Texans paid for a quitter who was suspended for conduct detrimental to the team last year, not to mention many of his #s are in decline.

Gaffney was given a chance last season after 3 unsuccessful attempts to displace Bradford and Gaffney pretty much feel way short. I don't even see how you can compare Moulds vs Gaffney, Moulds is a 3 time Pro Bowler. Decline? He had a very miniscule slide in production of a whopping 208 yards and 2 TD's from the last two years compared to the previous 2 years. Did you factor in that the production loss is attested to a new coach and scheme (who is no longer with the team) and a new QB (who is fighting just to keep is starting job)? Even so, he production numbers speak for themselves, Moulds doubled the production of Gaffney, a guy who pushing a guy who had 1 total TD last year in Philadelphia. And as far as your whole "detrimental to the team" take, well it plain as day that it wasn't, Moulds returned from that suspension in top form, finishing with 27 catches for 305 yards and a touchdown in the final three games and Mularkey was sent packing. Moulds was a cap casualty. Head coaches are not cap casualties, they are performance casualties, so Moulds may have been in the right (see Jaime Sharper).

Also, I believe it's a stretch to bring in pass receiving for fullbacks into this argument since, with the Texans, the first order of business would be TO KEEP FOLKS OFF CARR and to open holes for Davis. Besides, Davis is the guy Carr would go to out of the backfield. With any kind of rush coming on Carr, I can't actually believe you would send both the fullback AND the tailback AND the TE out on pass routes. That kind of strategy will cause the necessity to challenge Rosenfels's mettle very, very early on in the season.

You can believe what you want, but it is what it is. Kubiak brings proven philosophy from way back in the days of Bill Walsh, utilizing every weapon available, something that Capers was unable to do. This is just facts.

oh and as far as your comparision to Cowher of Capers, your comparison of Capers 13-3 to 6-10 is off base considering that Cowher had already established himself as a a solid coach through the years, something that Capers hasn't. Cowher estabished a winner percentage of 67% his 1st 4 years after previous coach Chuck Noll notched only 47% his last 4 years. Capers' best year was a good one, but certainly not a trend nor in the neighborhood of Cowhers. If you saw the games last year you could just tell that the team had lost all confidence and wasn't playing with heart, something that is a direct reflection of the coaching staff. Once you lose that, just like he did with Carolina, it's extremely hard to get it back. Capers' biggest foley has always been his offense and it showed its head here in Texas.

Now turn around and grab your ankles because you've just been smacked.

 

[Double Barrel]

Geez folks, can't you get the drift from statements like this.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!

What we have here is a failure to communicate!

Please, allow me to illustrate Mr. infantrycak's statement:

<---Bobo

^
^
Bobo's posts trying to hook you (the poster)

Perhaps this illustration is lost on a few of you, so please grant me one more image, and easy-to-understand road sign: