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Calling the shots: NFL head coaches who refuse to give up playcalling.

Mike McCarthy climbed the ranks in the NFL because of his work with quarterbacks and his playcalling.
He made sure that when he became the head coach of the Green Bay Packers in 2006, he stayed true to that skill. Save for a 12-game stretch in 2015, when McCarthy felt it necessary to pay extra attention to his defense and special teams, he has always been the one to decide which play Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers and a handful of other quarterbacks will run.

He would tell any first-time head coach to do the same, with one caveat.

"If he's good at it," McCarthy said during a recent interview about playcalling. "There's so much of our offense that's identified with our quarterbacks, and rightfully so, because we've had two Hall of Fame quarterbacks play here in my tenure, but the system of offense is to make the quarterback successful. It's a philosophy I learned in 1989 from Paul Hackett and through Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense. That's how I learned it, and I believe wholeheartedly in it.

"If you're known for something as a head coach, I feel your team should emulate that. That's why you got the job."

Sure, that makes it more difficult to have input into the other parts of the game, but it's why McCarthy hired veteran coordinators on defense (Dom Capers) and special teams (Ron Zook). Both have been head coaches, Capers at the NFL level and Zook in college.

Here's a look at playcalling through the eyes of several NFL head coaches: https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/42047/calling-the-shots-why-some-nfl-head-coaches-refuse-to-give-up-playcalling-duties

This is a few years old but still relevant and I think it still makes for a good read. It will be interesting to see if and when BO'b takes up play calling the offense again.
 
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welsh texan

All Pro
Mike McCarthy climbed the ranks in the NFL because of his work with quarterbacks and his playcalling.
He made sure that when he became the head coach of the Green Bay Packers in 2006, he stayed true to that skill. Save for a 12-game stretch in 2015, when McCarthy felt it necessary to pay extra attention to his defense and special teams, he has always been the one to decide which play Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers and a handful of other quarterbacks will run.

He would tell any first-time head coach to do the same, with one caveat.

"If he's good at it," McCarthy said during a recent interview about playcalling. "There's so much of our offense that's identified with our quarterbacks, and rightfully so, because we've had two Hall of Fame quarterbacks play here in my tenure, but the system of offense is to make the quarterback successful. It's a philosophy I learned in 1989 from Paul Hackett and through Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense. That's how I learned it, and I believe wholeheartedly in it.

"If you're known for something as a head coach, I feel your team should emulate that. That's why you got the job."

Sure, that makes it more difficult to have input into the other parts of the game, but it's why McCarthy hired veteran coordinators on defense (Dom Capers) and special teams (Ron Zook). Both have been head coaches, Capers at the NFL level and Zook in college.

Here's a look at playcalling through the eyes of several NFL head coaches: https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/42047/calling-the-shots-why-some-nfl-head-coaches-refuse-to-give-up-playcalling-duties

This is a few years old but still relevant and I think it still makes for a good read. It will be interesting to see if and when BO'b takes up play calling the offense again.
Dom Capers says it all. Head coaching is a different skill to coordinating.
Dom Capers the beacon of how to make a great hire as a coordinator, but how was his D as head coach of the Texans?
What about RAC as head coach? What about Wade Phillips as head coach? What about Bill O’Brien as head coach?

Even McCarthy ultimately lost his job because he could co-ordinate his HOF QB to success whilst overseeing the operation as a whole.

I probably shouldn’t be disagreeing with a super bowl winning head coach on how to head coach successfully, but I tend to wonder if the better approach would be to have the GM oversee it all, position coordinator for each position, and, indeed somebody beneath the GM heading up the FO day to day, which is kinda how New England have worked the last 20 years.

Its also a way the Texans would be well set up to function, if OB could let the reigns off a little for his OC.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Mike McCarthy climbed the ranks in the NFL because of his work with quarterbacks and his playcalling.
He made sure that when he became the head coach of the Green Bay Packers in 2006, he stayed true to that skill. Save for a 12-game stretch in 2015, when McCarthy felt it necessary to pay extra attention to his defense and special teams, he has always been the one to decide which play Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers and a handful of other quarterbacks will run.

He would tell any first-time head coach to do the same, with one caveat.

"If he's good at it," McCarthy said during a recent interview about playcalling. "There's so much of our offense that's identified with our quarterbacks, and rightfully so, because we've had two Hall of Fame quarterbacks play here in my tenure, but the system of offense is to make the quarterback successful. It's a philosophy I learned in 1989 from Paul Hackett and through Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense. That's how I learned it, and I believe wholeheartedly in it.

"If you're known for something as a head coach, I feel your team should emulate that. That's why you got the job."

Sure, that makes it more difficult to have input into the other parts of the game, but it's why McCarthy hired veteran coordinators on defense (Dom Capers) and special teams (Ron Zook). Both have been head coaches, Capers at the NFL level and Zook in college.

Here's a look at playcalling through the eyes of several NFL head coaches: https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/42047/calling-the-shots-why-some-nfl-head-coaches-refuse-to-give-up-playcalling-duties

This is a few years old but still relevant and I think it still makes for a good read. It will be interesting to see if and when BO'b takes up play calling the offense again.
Maybe McCarthy had 2 HOF quarterbacks because he was good at calling plays for them. But if your QB is a good strategist, plays are better called on the field.
 
Maybe McCarthy had 2 HOF quarterbacks because he was good at calling plays for them. But if your QB is a good strategist, plays are better called on the field.
Brett Favre was a top tier Super Bowl winning QB well on his way to Canton long before McCarthy came along.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
Maybe McCarthy had 2 HOF quarterbacks because he was good at calling plays for them. But if your QB is a good strategist, plays are better called on the field.
Huh???It has been a really long time (80s maybe) since there was a QB who was the down-in down out play-caller for his team....Certain game situations and audibles, but outside of that play calls come from the head coach or a coordinator.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Huh???It has been a really long time (80s maybe) since there was a QB who was the down-in down out play-caller for his team....Certain game situations and audibles, but outside of that play calls come from the head coach or a coordinator.
Yes, and a majority of those sideline narcissists have been wrong.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Brett Favre was a top tier Super Bowl winning QB well on his way to Canton long before McCarthy came along.
I would've traded Favre as soon as I could. He cost his teams nearly as many losses as wins. Fun to watch but not a clutch QB. I would take virtually every single HOF QB, including Troy Aikman (who shouldn't be sniffing the HOF based on his performance as a QB), before I would field Favre.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Maybe McCarthy had 2 HOF quarterbacks because he was good at calling plays for them. But if your QB is a good strategist, plays are better called on the field.
Your QB is in the weeds and too emotionally involved in the game to consistently be relied on to call a game from the field. It helps to have your strategist be above the fray. Give your QB options, forgive the occasional cowboy play and drive on.
 
I would've traded Favre as soon as I could. He cost his teams nearly as many losses as wins. Fun to watch but not a clutch QB. I would take virtually every single HOF QB, including Troy Aikman (who shouldn't be sniffing the HOF based on his performance as a QB), before I would field Favre.
I am not a Favre fanatic and I agree with all you said but I was merely pointing out that long before McCarthy came along and called the shots for Favre many people had him booked for Canton.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I would've traded Favre as soon as I could. He cost his teams nearly as many losses as wins. Fun to watch but not a clutch QB. I would take virtually every single HOF QB, including Troy Aikman (who shouldn't be sniffing the HOF based on his performance as a QB), before I would field Favre.
I watched him make come from behind drives all the time. He wasn't clutch. Lol!
 

Earl34

All Pro
If you are good at it …. keep doing it.

I just have one question - When was OB actually good at it ?

We've have pretty much the same mediocre results no matter who the QB was.

What does McCarthy have to say if you are only mediocre at it ?
Exactly. Besides his very short stint as Patriots' OC, when has OB coordinated a great offense or developed a young QB? That has always been my issue with O'Brien. I'm starting to think instead of trying to recreate the Patriots' way. NFL owners/organizations should have a vision for what style of play they want and hire a traditional GM and HC to execute that vision.

Instead of modeling your team after the Patriots, I think I prefer the Steelers. Regardless of the HC, you expect them to be a 3-4 defense, good OL, strong running game, with a downfield passing attack. Of course, you need a knowledgeable owner or VP setting the organizational vision for the GM and HC. Never mind!
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Exactly. Besides his very short stint as Patriots' OC, when has OB coordinated a great offense or developed a young QB? That has always been my issue with O'Brien. I'm starting to think instead of trying to recreate the Patriots' way. NFL owners/organizations should have a vision for what style of play they want and hire a traditional GM and HC to execute that vision.

Instead of modeling your team after the Patriots, I think I prefer the Steelers. Regardless of the HC, you expect them to be a 3-4 defense, good OL, strong running game, with a downfield passing attack. Of course, you need a knowledgeable owner or VP setting the organizational vision for the GM and HC. Never mind!
I actually agree with this post. But when a GM has gotten you nowhere in 12 yrs you gotta make a change. I hope next time they hire a GM/HC they hire the GM 1st and let him hire the HC. So if it doesn't workout there will be a full housecleaning.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Exactly. Besides his very short stint as Patriots' OC, when has OB coordinated a great offense or developed a young QB? That has always been my issue with O'Brien. I'm starting to think instead of trying to recreate the Patriots' way. NFL owners/organizations should have a vision for what style of play they want and hire a traditional GM and HC to execute that vision.

Instead of modeling your team after the Patriots, I think I prefer the Steelers. Regardless of the HC, you expect them to be a 3-4 defense, good OL, strong running game, with a downfield passing attack. Of course, you need a knowledgeable owner or VP setting the organizational vision for the GM and HC. Never mind!

I thought we were on the right track towards the end of Gary's run here …. they went 12-4 and put up a good fight in that playoff loss to Baltimore with Yates under center …. then Schaub's wheels fell off and they really had nothing remotely competent behind him. If Schaub didn't go down , they were the favorites to win that superbowl IMO.

They had a damn solid roster minus a QB and rather than fix it , I think they over reacted and fired the wrong guy - The guy who was responsible for the dearth of talent at the QB spot was …. Tricky Rick.

Every year the conversation between those two was the same - "We need to address the QB position with quality talent" , "No we don't , your system makes the QB". Seems like that conversation was a yearly occurrence … I must have heard them argue about it 50 times , often very heated.

And to some extent , Rick was right …. just about anyone with the physical ability could make that offense work - Just look at what it did for Brock Osweiler in 2015 going 5-2 as a starter and then signing a huge contract with the Texans the following offseason. Take him out of that system and he was a complete and total disaster.
A lot of other guys played well above their ability in that system too …. Case Keenum for example , despite his record he played above his talent.

They had the roster minus the QB , they had the system and the coaching staff - Their own identity.
If they had simply addressed the QB position … I think they'd have been right back in the fight for a Lombardi the following season.

Now , this teams identity changes with the wind …. and even then they are highly predictable offensively.
 
I watched him make come from behind drives all the time. He wasn't clutch. Lol!
Favre did have some big come from behind drives but in some big playoff games he choked the chicken so to speak. His last go round with the Vikings he was in perfect position to win and he did as he had done in far too many games and came up short. None the less he is worthy of the HOF and I enjoyed watching him play.

As far as a head coach calling the offense I have no problem with that if prior to that coach doing it he was known to be good at it. BO'b imo never showed to be the offensive stalwart that could excel at calling the shots on offense.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Farvbe did have some big come from behind drives but in some big playoff games he choked the chicken so to speak. His last go round with the VBikings he was in perfect position to win and he did as he had done in far too many games and came up short. None the less he is worthy of the HOF and I enjoyed watching him play.
If that's all you want to take from that season, then your entire opinion of it is invalidated.

He was an MVP candidate that season for a Minnesota team that he elevated that hadn't done jack before he arrived. He also had some of the best come from behind drives that year. One of them was a bullet bomb down the field to win the game to Bernard Berrian which was one of the best passes I've ever seen at that old age.

That game was the famous game where the NO Saints and the refs also cheated by allowing the worst dirty hits ever in a playoff game. A ton of them were late hits and the coaching staff was paying the players to do everything possible to injure him, and the refs seemed pretty complicit with that plan since they even apologized after that game. Even with a all of that happening the game still went into OT where he threw that pick.

The fact that you took that one game and tried to act like it somehow solidified his entire playoff career is extremely disingenuous. He went to back to back SB's and almost won both of them losing to another back to back SB Denver team.
 
If that's all you want to take from that season, then your entire opinion of it is invalidated.

He was an MVP candidate that season for a Minnesota team that he elevated that hadn't done jack before he arrived. He also had some of the best come from behind drives that year. One of them was a bullet bomb down the field to win the game to Bernard Berrian which was one of the best passes I've ever seen at that old age.

That game was the famous game where the NO Saints and the refs also cheated by allowing the worst dirty hits ever in a playoff game. A ton of them were late hits and the coaching staff was paying the players to do everything possible to injure him, and the refs seemed pretty complicit with that plan since they even apologized after that game. Even with a all of that happening the game still went into OT where he threw that pick.

The fact that you took that one game and tried to act like it somehow solidified his entire playoff career is extremely disingenuous. He went to back to back SB's and almost won both of them losing to another back to back SB Denver team.
His history is full of turn overs at critical moments. I am not a Favre hater but he threw a lot of picks in his career and that can not be denied. To do so means your objectivity is clouded due to your being a fan of his. I do think he played some of his best football at the end of his career but I won't make excuses for him that he took a beating in his final game. He did go to back to back Super Bowls early in his career and that is impressive and he deserves credit for it. Still he was so good that it is a shame that his gun slinging mentality did not lead to more than one title. That is in part because he took too many chances. A lot of people love him for his gutsy play and I myself admired it. Still I somewhat feel as though his talent was wasted due to his trying to do too much. No need to take offense. I am not a Favre hater. He is a HOF Qb and he earned it.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
His history is full of turn overs at critical moments. I am not a Favre hater but he threw a lot of picks in his career and that can not be denied. To do so means your objectivity is clouded due to your being a fan of his. I do think he played some of his best football at the end of his career but I won't make excuses for him that he took a beating in his final game. He did go to back to back Super Bowls early in his career and that is impressive and he deserves credit for it. Still he was so good that it is a shame that his gun slinging mentality did not lead to more than one title. That is in part because he took too many chances. A lot of people love him for his gutsy play and I myself admired it. Still I somewhat feel as though his talent was wasted due to his trying to do too much. No need to take offense. I am not a Favre hater. He is a HOF Qb and he earned it.
Fair enough man. All I'm trying to say is that he shouldn't be drawn down to one game and one play to highlight what his entire season was or his career especially. He also had a pick that ended his season like two years before that with GB in the NFC Championship game where he was an MVP candidate that season as well in his last season there. But their season had to end somehow. I think that game was in OT as well, so I don't think you can just drag it all down to one play for a guy that was an MVP candidate. Also there were two other playoffs where he got to SB's. How many other QB"s can say that honestly? I do realize that he threw a lot of picks overall. He has the record if I'm not mistaken, but if you look at a lot of those GB teams he was always expected to carry them with his arm for the most part. I don't remember GB being stacked with top 5 defenses every year. They had Amaan Green playing great for a few years, but Favre was mainly carrying that franchise.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
OB pulled Penn State out of a dumpster fire. It was the same system as he is running here, just a little bit less of a play book. I think it all comes down to the players on the same page with the OC/HC whoever calls the plays.

I don't remember the coach, but he was said to use pretty much 10 plays per quarter. And told the players if they run them right they didn't need more. Other coaches will run the same play multiple times in a row. Leaving the D to either stop them or lose. The Ravens used multiple types of the same play when they had Jamal Lewis. Nobody stopped them on a regular basis.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Speaking of Penn State, here is a good article on the game plan offense he introduced at Penn State:

https://www.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2012/01/post_154.html

But ask O’Brien what offensive style he favors, and he won’t throw around words such as pro style or spread. His offense, it seems, is a little more elaborate than that.

“You can’t put a label on it,” he said. “It’s not a West Coast, it’s not an East Coast. It’s a very unique, instinctive offense, and it takes smart, instinctive players to play it.”

The O’Brien offense requires close study, and understanding of defenses.
“It’s a very personnel-oriented offense [with] many different personnel groupings and multiple formations,” O’Brien said. “It’s a game-plan offense so we’re gonna look at who we play and say, ‘Here’s what they do on defense, and here’s what we’re going to do to try to attack that.’

“What we’re gonna try to do with our offensive players is teach them about defense and get them to understand the fronts of coverages and pressures, and from there, put the offense in.”
 

Earl34

All Pro
OB pulled Penn State out of a dumpster fire. It was the same system as he is running here, just a little bit less of a play book. I think it all comes down to the players on the same page with the OC/HC whoever calls the plays.

I don't remember the coach, but he was said to use pretty much 10 plays per quarter. And told the players if they run them right they didn't need more. Other coaches will run the same play multiple times in a row. Leaving the D to either stop them or lose. The Ravens used multiple types of the same play when they had Jamal Lewis. Nobody stopped them on a regular basis.
When O'Brien didn't have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowsi, Aaron Hernandez, and Bill Belichick whispering in his ear, he has never been associated with top offenses. As the OC at Duke, his offense was 111th out of 119 in points scored. Then at Georgia Tech, his offenses were ranked 94th out of 117. Even with today's pass happy offenses, I would still place him in the middle of the pack or lower when it comes to play calling and creativity.

Even as the Patriots' OC, there were complaints about him giving Benjarvis Green-Ellis 187 carries for only 3.7 YPC. So, I think it's a little bit more than players on the same page with the OC/HC. Bum Phillips said, "Don Shula can take his'n and beat you'n, and he could take you'n and beat his'n.” From a scheme and strategy perspective, I'm still not sold on OB as the offensive genius who can consistently "take his'n and beat you'n".
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
When O'Brien didn't have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowsi, Aaron Hernandez, and Bill Belichick whispering in his ear, he has never been associated with top offenses. As the OC at Duke, his offense was 111th out of 119 in points scored. Then at Georgia Tech, his offenses were ranked 94th out of 117. Even with today's pass happy offenses, I would still place him in the middle of the pack or lower when it comes to play calling and creativity.

Even as the Patriots' OC, there were complaints about him giving Benjarvis Green-Ellis 187 carries for only 3.7 YPC. So, I think it's a little bit more than players on the same page with the OC/HC. Bum Phillips said, "Don Shula can take his'n and beat you'n, and he could take you'n and beat his'n.” From a scheme and strategy perspective, I'm still not sold on OB as the offensive genius who can consistently "take his'n and beat you'n".
Again, who called BoB this "offensive genius"? You guys constantly say this & i don't think i heard or read anywhere that he was this creative, offensive mastermind...before his hire & certainly not after.........Like the Jets tried to do with Eric Mangini calling him "mangenius"....lol.

....I got 3 words for you: Jet. Chip. Wasp. From a playcall timing & schematic perspective, there is 0 special about it; it's basically a hail mary. But that simple concept....which amounts to a little more than your 3 best WR's running some variation of a 9 route on the same side of the formation is what has shown to be a staple of the Chiefs offense under Mahomes & its the play that won them the SB.........Even though Reid's been running some variation of this play for years with other less talented qb's and WR groups.

Point is, creativity, playcalling & timing..."scheme" as you guys love to talk about....... all that pretty much plays 2nd fiddle to player talent & execution. That 3rd & 15 the chiefs converted in the SB wasn't converted b/c of the actual play..it was converted b/c of the special talent under center & the special speedster WR out on the edge.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
Again, who called BoB this "offensive genius"? You guys constantly say this & i don't think i heard or read anywhere that he was this creative, offensive mastermind...before his hire & certainly not after.........Like the Jets tried to do with Eric Mangini calling him "mangenius"....lol.

....I got 3 words for you: Jet. Chip. Wasp. From a playcall timing & schematic perspective, there is 0 special about it; it's basically a hail mary. But that simple concept....which amounts to a little more than your 3 best WR's running some variation of a 9 route on the same side of the formation is what has shown to be a staple of the Chiefs offense under Mahomes & its the play that won them the SB.........Even though Reid's been running some variation of this play for years with other less talented qb's and WR groups.

Point is, creativity, playcalling & timing..."scheme" as you guys love to talk about....... all that pretty much plays 2nd fiddle to player talent & execution. That 3rd & 15 the chiefs converted in the SB wasn't converted b/c of the actual play..it was converted b/c of the special talent under center & the special speedster WR out on the edge.
Watson...Cooks... Just saying that we have a new outside weapon with speed
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When O'Brien didn't have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowsi, Aaron Hernandez, and Bill Belichick whispering in his ear, he has never been associated with top offenses. As the OC at Duke, his offense was 111th out of 119 in points scored. Then at Georgia Tech, his offenses were ranked 94th out of 117. Even with today's pass happy offenses, I would still place him in the middle of the pack or lower when it comes to play calling and creativity.

Even as the Patriots' OC, there were complaints about him giving Benjarvis Green-Ellis 187 carries for only 3.7 YPC. So, I think it's a little bit more than players on the same page with the OC/HC. Bum Phillips said, "Don Shula can take his'n and beat you'n, and he could take you'n and beat his'n.” From a scheme and strategy perspective, I'm still not sold on OB as the offensive genius who can consistently "take his'n and beat you'n".
Tell me again, who ever said BOB was an offensive genius?

Sorry Tex, I didn't read your post 1st.

Notice how you've gotten no responses to this?
 
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OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Tell me again, who ever said BOB was an offensive genius?
I think OB got that moniker for the one season he got to oversee the offensive juggernaut that was already in place.....and the infamous caught on camera screaming ascapade on the sideline with Brady. That was about it. He's proven one thing and one thing only in Houston.....OB doesn't know offense.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Tell me again, who ever said BOB was an offensive genius?

Sorry Tex, I didn't read your post 1st.

Notice how you've gotten no responses to this?
LOL. I guess you are calling me out. I'll play. Enjoy.

After McDaniels joined the Patriots while O'Brien was there. “We’ve got two geniuses, two offensive masterminds at the same time,” receiver Chad Ochocinco said. “It’s dynamic.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/sports/football/offensive-coordinators-obrien-and-mcdaniels-reunite-briefly-with-patriots.html

“Coach O’Brien is just so cerebral with the X’s and O’s, a real offensive genius,” boasted Zordich. “He loves scheming to beat the other team. But what makes him so effective is the way he teaches the game. He makes it simple for us to learn his philosophy and his playbook, which helps everyone execute more efficiently on Saturdays.”
https://saturdayblitz.com/2012/10/06/bill-obrien-quarterback-genius-seen-in-matt-mcgloin/

"O'Brien is the current IT boy of the coaching world. A Bill Belichick protégé who rode the arm of Tom Brady to offensive genius/QB guru status and turned that into the job at Penn State, a former collegiate power on the slide. And now, after he's turned in two mediocre seasons as a college coach, NFL teams are fighting for the chance to anoint O'Brien as their new savior. "
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/bob-mcnair-rushing-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-6744618

"Estes and others concede that while O'Brien might occasionally spill over the top, he's also an X's-and-O's genius who is never unprepared, comprehends football's complexities, and teaches them passionately. More significantly for this program fraught with doubts and troubles, he can be extremely persuasive. "
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/colleges/20120108_New_Penn_State_coach_Bill_O_Brien_known_for_intensity.html

"Bill O'Brien is a 44 year old offensive genius. Enough said. Oh, but you want some proof? Fine, I'll lay it all on the line for you."
https://www.hogshaven.com/2013/11/19/5123774/redskins-coaching-candidate-bill-obrien

"The Houston Texans hired Bill O’Brien because he developed a reputation as a quarterback whisperer as New England Patriots offensive coordinator and Penn State head coach. "
https://sportsnaut.com/2017/05/five-overrated-nfl-head-coaches-2017/3/

"In today's Penn State football news, Bleacher Report writer Lisa Horne examines how Bill O'Brien keeps pulling in elite QBs to Happy Valley. She concludes by calling him a "quarterback whisperer."
https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2013/06/bill_obrien_quarterback_whisperer.html

"O’Brien is time and time again touted as an offensive genius who helped turn the Patriots into an offensive juggernaut"
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/bill-obrien-names-himself-offensive-coordinator-why-9132939
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
LOL. I guess you are calling me out. I'll play. Enjoy.

After McDaniels joined the Patriots while O'Brien was there. “We’ve got two geniuses, two offensive masterminds at the same time,” receiver Chad Ochocinco said. “It’s dynamic.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/sports/football/offensive-coordinators-obrien-and-mcdaniels-reunite-briefly-with-patriots.html

“Coach O’Brien is just so cerebral with the X’s and O’s, a real offensive genius,” boasted Zordich. “He loves scheming to beat the other team. But what makes him so effective is the way he teaches the game. He makes it simple for us to learn his philosophy and his playbook, which helps everyone execute more efficiently on Saturdays.”
https://saturdayblitz.com/2012/10/06/bill-obrien-quarterback-genius-seen-in-matt-mcgloin/

"O'Brien is the current IT boy of the coaching world. A Bill Belichick protégé who rode the arm of Tom Brady to offensive genius/QB guru status and turned that into the job at Penn State, a former collegiate power on the slide. And now, after he's turned in two mediocre seasons as a college coach, NFL teams are fighting for the chance to anoint O'Brien as their new savior. "
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/bob-mcnair-rushing-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-6744618

"Estes and others concede that while O'Brien might occasionally spill over the top, he's also an X's-and-O's genius who is never unprepared, comprehends football's complexities, and teaches them passionately. More significantly for this program fraught with doubts and troubles, he can be extremely persuasive. "
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/colleges/20120108_New_Penn_State_coach_Bill_O_Brien_known_for_intensity.html

"Bill O'Brien is a 44 year old offensive genius. Enough said. Oh, but you want some proof? Fine, I'll lay it all on the line for you."
https://www.hogshaven.com/2013/11/19/5123774/redskins-coaching-candidate-bill-obrien

"The Houston Texans hired Bill O’Brien because he developed a reputation as a quarterback whisperer as New England Patriots offensive coordinator and Penn State head coach. "
https://sportsnaut.com/2017/05/five-overrated-nfl-head-coaches-2017/3/
"In today's Penn State football news, Bleacher Report writer Lisa Horne examines how Bill O'Brien keeps pulling in elite QBs to Happy Valley. She concludes by calling him a "quarterback whisperer."
https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2013/06/bill_obrien_quarterback_whisperer.html

"O’Brien is time and time again touted as an offensive genius who helped turn the Patriots into an offensive juggernaut"
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/bill-obrien-names-himself-offensive-coordinator-why-9132939
Man why do we have to go this far to prove what we’ve heard and read. Some should know we’re not making these type of things up. I think they’re asking, who on here has called O’Brien the QB guru.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
LOL. I guess you are calling me out. I'll play. Enjoy.

After McDaniels joined the Patriots while O'Brien was there. “We’ve got two geniuses, two offensive masterminds at the same time,” receiver Chad Ochocinco said. “It’s dynamic.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/sports/football/offensive-coordinators-obrien-and-mcdaniels-reunite-briefly-with-patriots.html

“Coach O’Brien is just so cerebral with the X’s and O’s, a real offensive genius,” boasted Zordich. “He loves scheming to beat the other team. But what makes him so effective is the way he teaches the game. He makes it simple for us to learn his philosophy and his playbook, which helps everyone execute more efficiently on Saturdays.”
https://saturdayblitz.com/2012/10/06/bill-obrien-quarterback-genius-seen-in-matt-mcgloin/

"O'Brien is the current IT boy of the coaching world. A Bill Belichick protégé who rode the arm of Tom Brady to offensive genius/QB guru status and turned that into the job at Penn State, a former collegiate power on the slide. And now, after he's turned in two mediocre seasons as a college coach, NFL teams are fighting for the chance to anoint O'Brien as their new savior. "
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/bob-mcnair-rushing-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-6744618

"Estes and others concede that while O'Brien might occasionally spill over the top, he's also an X's-and-O's genius who is never unprepared, comprehends football's complexities, and teaches them passionately. More significantly for this program fraught with doubts and troubles, he can be extremely persuasive. "
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/sports/colleges/20120108_New_Penn_State_coach_Bill_O_Brien_known_for_intensity.html

"Bill O'Brien is a 44 year old offensive genius. Enough said. Oh, but you want some proof? Fine, I'll lay it all on the line for you."
https://www.hogshaven.com/2013/11/19/5123774/redskins-coaching-candidate-bill-obrien

"The Houston Texans hired Bill O’Brien because he developed a reputation as a quarterback whisperer as New England Patriots offensive coordinator and Penn State head coach. "
https://sportsnaut.com/2017/05/five-overrated-nfl-head-coaches-2017/3/
"In today's Penn State football news, Bleacher Report writer Lisa Horne examines how Bill O'Brien keeps pulling in elite QBs to Happy Valley. She concludes by calling him a "quarterback whisperer."
https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2013/06/bill_obrien_quarterback_whisperer.html

"O’Brien is time and time again touted as an offensive genius who helped turn the Patriots into an offensive juggernaut"
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/bill-obrien-names-himself-offensive-coordinator-why-9132939
I'm not calling you out and I'm sorry you took my post this way.

I think it's obvious the media isn't too bright. I dont know why people would take things they say as gospel.

BTW, notice how nobody you listed other than Ocho Cinco who wasn't even in Foxboro 1 season is the only person thats coached or played a down of NFL footall that has called BOB a genius?

I'm willing to say anybody and certainly not 1 poster on this MB who has watched BOB's offense for 6 yrs thinks BOB's an offensive genius.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Man why do we have to go this far to prove what we’ve heard and read. Some should know we’re not making these type of things up. I think they’re asking, who on here has called O’Brien the QB guru.
b/c most of those arent direct quotes from folks who’ve played under him or coached with him. Most of quotes are actually from writers...guys notorious for over-embellishing things and using flowery language for clicks. I saw only 1 direct quote from a player in there....Chad Johnson..and we know his history of overdoing it. Fact is, you don’t have to be an offensive genius to actually know your X’s and O’s and the guy wouldn’t have gotten a head coaching gig if he didn’t know them.

The very nature of the phrase “genius” implies someone who operates at a higher level than everyone else and/or revolutionizes the game somehow...& there’s really only 1 of those in each league at any given time.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
I'm not calling you out and I'm sorry you took my post this way.

I think it's obvious the media isn't too bright. I dont know why people would take things they say as gospel.

BTW, notice how nobody you listed other than Ocho Cinco who wasn't even in Foxboro 1 season is the only person thats coached or played a down of NFL footall that has called BOB a genius?

I'm willing to say anybody and certainly not 1 poster on this MB who has watched BOB's offense for 6 yrs thinks BOB's an offensive genius.
I think he is a good coach. I also think Smith had his hands tied on roster moves at first. After Smith left, he started making picks that made sence from a position stand point. Can't blame him 100% if someone ends up not working out. Am I saying he is a Reid or Hoodie? No, but he won 9 games in spite of having Brock at QB. And we know that story. He never knew Smith was getting him. He had stated in an interview that he was looking at the draft for a QB. Recall he had a few guys he liked in the 2nd?

Bottom line here is if the players sync with OB the team is going to be good. If not 7-8 wins, and Watson is mad at the Hopkins trade. Do I like it? Only if Johnson plays well. However, even though they were buddies it is a business. Watson needs to get over the deal and play with the guys we have. Then we will see what happens. And if he hates OB he still needs to go 150% or we are in trouble. Not sure if his actions are indicators of not wanting to be here if OB is or what. As he has been very criptic on Twitter.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I think he is a good coach. I also think Smith had his hands tied on roster moves at first. After Smith left, he started making picks that made sence from a position stand point. Can't blame him 100% if someone ends up not working out. Am I saying he is a Reid or Hoodie? No, but he won 9 games in spite of having Brock at QB. And we know that story. He never knew Smith was getting him. He had stated in an interview that he was looking at the draft for a QB. Recall he had a few guys he liked in the 2nd?

Bottom line here is if the players sync with OB the team is going to be good. If not 7-8 wins, and Watson is mad at the Hopkins trade. Do I like it? Only if Johnson plays well. However, even though they were buddies it is a business. Watson needs to get over the deal and play with the guys we have. Then we will see what happens. And if he hates OB he still needs to go 150% or we are in trouble. Not sure if his actions are indicators of not wanting to be here if OB is or what. As he has been very criptic on Twitter.
3 things could determine the Texans 2020 season:

1. Health of the team and more importantly....the new offensive assets.
2. Kelly manipulates the playbook to take advantage of Watson's skill set.
3. The defensive front seven must...must...must get pressure on the QB's.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
3 things could determine the Texans 2020 season:

1. Health of the team and more importantly....the new offensive assets.
2. Kelly manipulates the playbook to take advantage of Watson's skill set.
3. The defensive front seven must...must...must get pressure on the QB's.
The question is:
Have we seen the best of Watson? Is what he has shown the best he has? Is Watson a top 10-15 QB and nothing else...his first year and a half was just no tape on him...
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
The question is:
Have we seen the best of Watson? Is what he has shown the best he has? Is Watson a top 10-15 QB and nothing else...his first year and a half was just no tape on him...
Same could be said about Mahomes but Reid somehow stayed a step ahead of DC's. OB didn't build on what allowed Watson to set some records as a rookie.....no, he insisted on going back to the same crap offense that's grounded every QB under his watch. Like I stated, if Kelly gets creative with the offense and OB stays detached then there's a very good chance to we'll finally get to see Watson playing in game 8 after those first 7 games.
 

Earl34

All Pro
b/c most of those arent direct quotes from folks who’ve played under him or coached with him. Most of quotes are actually from writers...guys notorious for over-embellishing things and using flowery language for clicks. I saw only 1 direct quote from a player in there....Chad Johnson..and we know his history of overdoing it. Fact is, you don’t have to be an offensive genius to actually know your X’s and O’s and the guy wouldn’t have gotten a head coaching gig if he didn’t know them.

The very nature of the phrase “genius” implies someone who operates at a higher level than everyone else and/or revolutionizes the game somehow...& there’s really only 1 of those in each league at any given time.
You are moving the goal posts. You initially said you didn't hear or read of anyone saying he was a offensive genius or QB coach. I showed it was said and now you question who said it and want to debate the offensive genius label. So, I'll take your point that terms like offensive genius, guru, QB whisperer, and elite gets thrown around too casually and I will state it another way.

IMHO, when you hire a June Jones, Norv Turner, Gary Kubiak, Kyle Shanahan, Buddy Ryan, Sean McVay, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Todd Bowles, Rex Ryan or any coach you want to name as your HC, right or wrong, the expectations are their side of the ball will be above average, competent and the strength of the team.

Yes. It comes down to talent and execution. However, if not an offensive genius, shouldn't we at least expect more production than what we have gotten from an offensive minded HC? Six years after he was hired, O'Brien is still looking for a competent slot WR. Does it take an offensive genius to identify/integrate a slot WR in the offense or just a competent OC?

You laugh when you read posters mentioning scheme and creativity. We are talking about offensive identity, formations, motion, pick plays, hot reads, easier QB reads, route combinations and many of the things you see from the top NFL offenses. However, when your team consistently cannot run a screen pass and you watch teams like the Saints and Chiefs run screen passes in their sleep, at what point do you think it's more than player talent and execution?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
You are moving the goal posts. You initially said you didn't hear or read of anyone saying he was a offensive genius or QB coach. I showed it was said and now you question who said it and want to debate the offensive genius label. So, I'll take your point that terms like offensive genius, guru, QB whisperer, and elite gets thrown around too casually and I will state it another way.

IMHO, when you hire a June Jones, Norv Turner, Gary Kubiak, Kyle Shanahan, Buddy Ryan, Sean McVay, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Todd Bowles, Rex Ryan or any coach you want to name as your HC, right or wrong, the expectations are their side of the ball will be above average, competent and the strength of the team.

Yes. It comes down to talent and execution. However, if not an offensive genius, shouldn't we at least expect more production than what we have gotten from an offensive minded HC? Six years after he was hired, O'Brien is still looking for a competent slot WR. Does it take an offensive genius to identify/integrate a slot WR in the offense or just a competent OC?

You laugh when you read posters mentioning scheme and creativity. We are talking about offensive identity, formations, motion, pick plays, hot reads, easier QB reads, route combinations and many of the things you see from the top NFL offenses. However, when your team consistently cannot run a screen pass and you watch teams like the Saints and Chiefs run screen passes in their sleep, at what point do you think it's more than player talent and execution?
......don't forget the TE position. Before OB's arrival, the team had a guy named Owen Daniels and he was pretty dammed good. OB came from NE where gifted TE's were gameplanned for yet couldn't be stopped. In Houston, OB has successfully buried the position into being a nothing burger. There's far too much talent at the position to get as little as he has gotten.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You are moving the goal posts. You initially said you didn't hear or read of anyone saying he was a offensive genius or QB coach. I showed it was said and now you question who said it and want to debate the offensive genius label. So, I'll take your point that terms like offensive genius, guru, QB whisperer, and elite gets thrown around too casually and I will state it another way.

IMHO, when you hire a June Jones, Norv Turner, Gary Kubiak, Kyle Shanahan, Buddy Ryan, Sean McVay, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Todd Bowles, Rex Ryan or any coach you want to name as your HC, right or wrong, the expectations are their side of the ball will be above average, competent and the strength of the team.

Yes. It comes down to talent and execution. However, if not an offensive genius, shouldn't we at least expect more production than what we have gotten from an offensive minded HC? Six years after he was hired, O'Brien is still looking for a competent slot WR. Does it take an offensive genius to identify/integrate a slot WR in the offense or just a competent OC?

You laugh when you read posters mentioning scheme and creativity. We are talking about offensive identity, formations, motion, pick plays, hot reads, easier QB reads, route combinations and many of the things you see from the top NFL offenses. However, when your team consistently cannot run a screen pass and you watch teams like the Saints and Chiefs run screen passes in their sleep, at what point do you think it's more than player talent and execution?
Point taken. I know you had to scour the internet to find these quotes and I seriously doubt you read any of those articles before the day you posted them. The premise still holds true though. Noone truly in the know was calling him an offensive genius. All those quotes prove is how writers tend to casually throw monikers out there that don’t fit to make fans of their work feel good.....& how desperate some fan bases are to want to believe something.

Your expectations of what a HC’s side of the ball should do and what they are actually capable of doing due to a lack of talent are 2 different things. Gary Kubiak’s offenses in the 1st 4 years here weren’t exactly great. Schaub put up some stats in his 3rd yr. at the helm, but it was mostly Blake Bortles garbage time numbers accumulated during failed attempts to get back into games. Picking up a Ron Dayne and Ahman Green off the scrap heap...drafting bums like Wali Lundy wasn’t getting it done. Enter the unheralded and underrated UDFA Arian Foster full time in 2010 and by 2011 and all of a sudden we look like an offensive juggernaut. Took Kubiak 4 years to get the main piece in place.

Note Turner has has **** offenses in multiple places both as a HC and as an OC.

The rest of your post is supposition simply b/c you have no idea whether any of that stuff is happening or not. And if you’ve been watching the Texans for this long and you don’t know what our identity is, then that’s on you...not on BoB and the offense to make it clearer for you to see. The scheme you should know it’s the EP system which is mostly a gameplan offense.....which means that from week to week how you primarily attack changes. run at times but that’s what it is.

Folks who claim to not be able to see what our identity is...what they’re really saying is “We don’t want to see a balanced attack of run and pass...that’s boring. we wanna see the ball flying all over the place”. That’s why if you asked most fans what our best game of the year last year was they’ll probably say the ATL game...or the Pats game...why b/c the ball was flying all over the place in both of those games. The reality is our best game was probably the Chiefs game b/c offensively we ran and passed the ball at Will in that game.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
......don't forget the TE position. Before OB's arrival, the team had a guy named Owen Daniels and he was pretty dammed good. OB came from NE where gifted TE's were gameplanned for yet couldn't be stopped. In Houston, OB has successfully buried the position into being a nothing burger. There's far too much talent at the position to get as little as he has gotten.
OD’s production here and the demise of the TE position under BoB are greatly exaggerated.

statistically OD had 1 stand out season under Kubiak and That’s the only season he came close to catching the number of TD’s Fells caught by himself alone last year.

even OD’s last 2 years under Kubiak in Baltimore and Denver and with Manning he didn’t do a whole lot more than Fells or Jordan Akins did just last year. Keep in my Akins is a #2 TE.

OD is overrated as hell around these parts.
 

Earl34

All Pro
......don't forget the TE position. Before OB's arrival, the team had a guy named Owen Daniels and he was pretty dammed good. OB came from NE where gifted TE's were gameplanned for yet couldn't be stopped. In Houston, OB has successfully buried the position into being a nothing burger. There's far too much talent at the position to get as little as he has gotten.
Agree. Does it take an offensive genius or competent OC to realize that one year, Alfred "freaking" Blue was being targeted as much as the TEs?

Also, before Ricky gets blamed. Patriots had a 7th round pick (Julian Edelman) and an undrafted Wes Welker as two of the most productive slot WRs in NFL history. The slot WR is suppose to be an integral player in what O'Brien is trying to do on offense. So, why when Welker was on the coaching staff did Coutee look like such a young, productive, promising, player and after he left, Coutee is in the doghouse and keeps running the wrong routes? That's why I cannot simply say it's a talent and execution problem.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
OD’s production here and the demise of the TE position under BoB are greatly exaggerated.

statistically OD had 1 stand out season under Kubiak and That’s the only season he came close to catching the number of TD’s Fells caught by himself alone last year.

even OD’s last 2 years under Kubiak in Baltimore and Denver and with Manning he didn’t do a whole lot more than Fells or Jordan Akins did just last year. Keep in my Akins is a #2 TE.

OD is overrated as hell around these parts.
You’d be pressing a losing argument in thinking DC’s weren't fully aware of OD each and every season beyond the 1 season you feel he was respectable.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Agree. Does it take an offensive genius or competent OC to realize that one year, Alfred "freaking" Blue was being targeted as much as the TEs?

Also, before Ricky gets blamed. Patriots had a 7th round pick (Julian Edelman) and an undrafted Wes Welker as two of the most productive slot WRs in NFL history. The slot WR is suppose to be an integral player in what O'Brien is trying to do on offense. So, why when Welker was on the coaching staff did Coutee look like such a young, productive, promising, player and after he left, Coutee is in the doghouse and keeps running the wrong routes? That's why I cannot simply say it's a talent and execution problem.
....anyone else hear that CRACK? That’s the sound of a ball leaving the park in a hurry!!!
 

Earl34

All Pro
Folks who claim to not be able to see what our identity is...what they’re really saying is “We don’t want to see a balanced attack of run and pass...that’s boring. we wanna see the ball flying all over the place”. That’s why if you asked most fans what our best game of the year last year was they’ll probably say the ATL game...or the Pats game...why b/c the ball was flying all over the place in both of those games. The reality is our best game was probably the Chiefs game b/c offensively we ran and passed the ball at Will in that game.
We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think you are underestimating the number of posters who want to see a balanced attack. I doubt any posters are calling for the R&S.

As far as the game plan offense and identity. Here is a little secret. EVERY team runs a game plan offense. It's not something that is unique to the EP offense. Every year, it seems the Patriots struggle through the first month of the season and then turn it on. IMHO, they are trying to evaluate what is going to be their identity for the year based on available personnel.

In 2016, when Gronk was injured, regardless of the opponent and the Patriots' game plan offense, their identity was running the ball and their quick passing game revolved around the RBs and slot WRs. Regardless of the week, opponent or game plan. That led to 159 targets to Edelman, but 18 rushing TDs for Blount. Who on earth would have expected LeGarrette Blount to score 18 TDs in a season?

In 2009, when they had Moss, their identity was a downfield passing team and running games built around the skillsets of multiple RBs.
In 2010, with Hernandez and Gronk they became a heavy two TE set offense
In later years, they became a slot WR and TE centric offense.

My point is when people say offensive identity, it's not wanting a pass happy offense. It's how you use the personnel on hand to achieve that balance offense. It's doing a better job establishing roles on the team. When they say creativity, they are not asking for an offensive genius to reinvent the wheel. They are asking for more formations, pick plays, combination routes, better play calling during a game, better use of personnel and groupings.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
......don't forget the TE position. Before OB's arrival, the team had a guy named Owen Daniels and he was pretty dammed good. OB came from NE where gifted TE's were gameplanned for yet couldn't be stopped. In Houston, OB has successfully buried the position into being a nothing burger. There's far too much talent at the position to get as little as he has gotten.
Indeed, that is something I just don’t understand.
 


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