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Cal McNair is the MAJOR problem.

Earl34

Veteran
What have I flip flopped on?

I dont think the Texans can win a championship with DW4 at QB. I think I've been pretty consistent in that belief. If you want to disagree with me then that's fine. Otherwise this post is a bunch of BS.
With all of their accuracy and anticipation skills, how many years did it take before Manning or Brees won their first Super Bowl?

Do you consider Marino or Fouts championship QBs? Based on your criteria they should have won multiple championships.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
With all of their accuracy and anticipation skills, how many years did it take before Manning or Brees won their first Super Bowl?

Do you consider Marino or Fouts championship QBs? Based on your criteria they should have won multiple championships.
Manning and Brees had to deal with Brady. Just like DW4'S going to have to deal with Mahomes.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Patrick was put in a way much better situation. He’s with a coach who is well established and has a true offensive identity. Watson on the other hands is dealing with a coach who is very clueless to what he wants to do.

Another thing Patrick has not taken the beatings like Watson either. He’s actually playing behind a very solid offensive line. Compare Patrick’s weapons verses what we have or had.

To answer your question: Watson being able to put up top 10 numbers in spite of this crap shoot of an offense that we’re running. Watson doing what he’s doing in spite of the offensive line changing every year as well as being at the bottom of the league.
All excuses. Everything that's wrong with DW4 isn't BOB's fault. Is it BOB'S fault that DW4'S got accuracy/anticipation issues, or that DW4 holds onto the ball to long? That has nothing to do with coaching.

BTW Mahomes got hurt playing behind a crap ol last yr.

The weapons thingy is true. But hey I guess not being Texans Worthy pre- dated BOB. Or else Hill/ Kelce would be Texans. The Chiefs have a we just want the best players on the team philosophy, the Texans not so much.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Manning and Brees had to deal with Brady. Just like DW4'S going to have to deal with Mahomes.

That was not the question. He asked how long did it take for those two to win a Superbowl. I also remember Manning's interception issue during his first four years was brought up. But you never responded to that very known fact. Why
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
All excuses. Everything that's wrong with DW4 isn't BOB's fault. Is it BOB'S fault that DW4'S got accuracy/anticipation issues, or that DW4 holds onto the ball to long? That has nothing to do with coaching.

BTW Mahomes got hurt playing behind a crap ol last yr.

The weapons thingy is true. But hey I guess not being Texans Worthy pre- dated BOB. Or else Hill/ Kelce would be Texans. The Chiefs have a we just want the best players on the team philosophy, the Texans not so much.

You're the only one that talks about this imaginary accuracy/anticipation thingy. Videos have been posted to show your claim were false. But the only thingy you consistently harp on is the last 5 games. Refusing to address the terrible play calling, horrific pass pro blocking by the offensive line and how the running game magically disappeared during that stretch. This is why quite a few members don't take your analysis serious.

Watson got hurt behind this crappy oline, so your point is what. And you're wrong on thinking KC offensive line was crappy.
 
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OptimisticTexan

Go Texans!!!
You're so FOS

Go back and honestly evaluate DW4 from the 1st Titans game forward and get back to me.

Look I get you hope a black QB can win a SB, I do too. But DW4 aint the guy unless he makes major changes to his game and even then I dont think he has the Accuracy/Anticipation to win a SB.

If you want to win a SB then you move on as quickly as possible.

I used to think DW4 was Young/Wilson now I think he's Vick/Cunninghahm after 3 yrs of watching him.
steelbtexan, you forgot about Doug Williams. His effort and records in the Redskins Super Bowl win stood for quite some time.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That was not the question. He asked how long did it take for those two to win a Superbowl. I also remember Manning's interception issue during his first four years was brought up. But you never responded to that very known fact. Why
He had interception issue his rookie yr.

In other words he improved. Guess what he didn't have? Accuracy/anticipation issues. Those issues with DW4 should trouble you, but they won't because it's easier to just blame BOB.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Manning and Brees had to deal with Brady. Just like DW4'S going to have to deal with Mahomes.
How did Brees have to deal with Brady? He plays in the NFC and has never faced Brady in a Super Bowl.

Also, since you conveniently dodge the question. It took Brees 9 years to win a Super Bowl and he hasn't won another since 2010. So, you could have said the Saints are not winning a Super Bowl with Drew Brees for 19 straight years and you would have been correct 18 years.

Also, it took Peyton Manning 9 years before he won his first Super Bowl and a great defense carried him to a 2nd championship. So, you could have said Manning is not going to win a Super Bowl for 17 straight years and you would have been correct in 15 of those years.

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. You may even be right for this year or even the next three years. But your ability to ignore facts, stats, or even the performance of players and coaches around Watson is truly special.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You're the only one that talks about this imaginary accuracy/anticipation thingy. Videos have been posted to show your claim were false. But the only thingy you consistently harp on is the last 5 games. Refusing to address the terrible play calling, horrific pass pro blocking by the offensive line and how the running game magically disappeared during that stretch. This is why quite a few members don't take your analysis serious.

Watson got hurt behind this crappy oline, so your point is what. And you're wrong on thinking KC offensive line was crappy.
I'm the only one, LMAO

There are many on here that see it. Off of the top of my head CnD/Corrosion/CWTexansFan/Otisbean etc... Have seen this and discussed it adnausem.

Smdh
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
How did Brees have to deal with Brady? He plays in the NFC and has never faced Brady in a Super Bowl.

Also, since you conveniently dodge the question. It took Brees 9 years to win a Super Bowl and he hasn't won another since 2010. So, you could have said the Saints are not winning a Super Bowl with Drew Brees for 19 straight years and you would have been correct 18 years.

Also, it took Peyton Manning 9 years before he won his first Super Bowl and a great defense carried him to a 2nd championship. So, you could have said Manning is not going to win a Super Bowl for 17 straight years and you would have been correct in 15 of those years.

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. You may even be right for this year or even the next three years. But your ability to ignore facts, stats, or even the performance of players and coaches around Watson is truly special.
I was referring to Manning.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
steelbtexan, you forgot about Doug Williams. His effort and records in the Redskins Super Bowl win stood for quite some time.
I didn't forget about him.

He was one of my favorite QB's back in the day. He even took Tampa to a NFCCG. He carried that team, they weren't that good. He was a great leader and his toughness was legendary.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
How did Brees have to deal with Brady? He plays in the NFC and has never faced Brady in a Super Bowl.

Also, since you conveniently dodge the question. It took Brees 9 years to win a Super Bowl and he hasn't won another since 2010. So, you could have said the Saints are not winning a Super Bowl with Drew Brees for 19 straight years and you would have been correct 18 years.

Also, it took Peyton Manning 9 years before he won his first Super Bowl and a great defense carried him to a 2nd championship. So, you could have said Manning is not going to win a Super Bowl for 17 straight years and you would have been correct in 15 of those years.

It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. You may even be right for this year or even the next three years. But your ability to ignore facts, stats, or even the performance of players and coaches around Watson is truly special.

Exactly. This man acts like Watson has the luxury of playing behind a top 10 offensive line. I remember the year Coach Sean Payton got suspended. Drew Breeze was wildly inconsistent and threw a lot of interceptions that season. His accuracy was off and he had quite of few horrific games. That showed me how valuable/important Coach was to Drew and that entire team. That’s one of the main reason why I continue to express how important these coaches are to these teams. I know Steel will not change his view. But hey at least check out what a lot of other people are saying. Verses sticking with what you only see. Yes yes we’ve all agreed Watson has to improve in some areas. But this lol bold statement of we will not win a SB with Watson unless he changes his wicked way is asinine at best. Especially after three seasons but we don’t want to talk about how long it took Breezy and HOF Manning. I’m like come on dude
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I'm the only one, LMAO

There are many on here that see it. Off of the top of my head CnD/Corrosion/CWTexansFan/Otisbean etc... Have seen this and discussed it adnausem.

Smdh
They are not beating a dead horse:deadhorse into the ground like you are. And they have also spoke in details on the entire offense with the exception of Doc. Big freaking difference.
 

Earl34

Veteran

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
They are not beating a dead horse:deadhorse into the ground like you are. And they have also spoke in details on the entire offense with the exception of Doc. Big freaking difference.
I just respond to posts.

You just don't like my responses

Nice diversion though. If you want to stop me from bringing up DW4'S shortcomings then don't respond. This is very simple.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Exactly. This man acts like Watson has the luxury of playing behind a top 10 offensive line. I remember the year Coach Sean Payton got suspended. Drew Breeze was wildly inconsistent and threw a lot of interceptions that season. His accuracy was off and he had quite of few horrific games. That showed me how valuable/important Coach was to Drew and that entire team. That’s one of the main reason why I continue to express how important these coaches are to these teams. I know Steel will not change his view. But hey at least check out what a lot of other people are saying. Verses sticking with what you only see. Yes yes we’ve all agreed Watson has to improve in some areas. But this lol bold statement of we will not win a SB with Watson unless he changes his wicked way is asinine at best. Especially after three seasons but we don’t want to talk about how long it took Breezy and HOF Manning. I’m like come on dude
Let's talk about how long it took Mahomes since that's who DW4 is going to be dealing with for the next decade.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Let's talk about how long it took Mahomes since that's who DW4 is going to be dealing with for the next decade.
Why? I’ve already told you the reason. Much better coaching, offensive coordinator and system. With way better weapons. Did you not read those very essential reasonings.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Why? I’ve already told you the reason. Much better coaching, offensive coordinator and system. With way better weapons. Did you not read those very essential reasonings.
Also, besides much better coaching, offensive coordinator and system, Steel is already on record saying they will never win a championship with McNair's approach. So, why does it even matter how Watson plays?

They will never win a championship this way, but hey who cares Cal's gonna keep on cashin those checks. He learned well from his daddy. It is what it is.
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Also, besides much better coaching, offensive coordinator and system, Steel is already on record saying they will never win a championship with McNair's approach. So, why does it even matter how Watson plays?
But like you said it’s time to move on. We have destroyed yet another thread with this back and forth pertaining Watson.
Back to the the main topic. Cal is allowing Billy Boy too much power in which IMO handicap this team for years to come. I’m pretty done saying, “ well let’s see if he will get it right this time around “. Six years in and dude continues to make the same mistake but are reward by Cal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Also, besides much better coaching, offensive coordinator and system, Steel is already on record saying they will never win a championship with McNair's approach. So, why does it even matter how Watson plays?
It doesn't matter.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
But like you said it’s time to move on. We have destroyed yet another thread with this back and forth pertaining Watson.
Back to the the main topic. Cal is allowing Billy Boy too much power in which IMO handicap this team for years to come. I’m pretty done saying, “ well let’s see if he will get it right this time around “. Six years in and dude continues to make the same mistake but are reward by Cal.
This is your opinion and he hasn't had power for 6 years.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
steelbtexan, you forgot about Doug Williams. His effort and records in the Redskins Super Bowl win stood for quite some time.
Doubt he forgot him. steelbtexan said he’s a big fan of Doug’s & Russell Wilson. There must be another reason.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Why? I’ve already told you the reason. Much better coaching, offensive coordinator and system. With way better weapons. Did you not read those very essential reasonings.
I would agree with the better coaching, OC and system. In terms of "weapons", other than Travis Kelce, I don’t think Mahomes had that much better players surrounding him. It was their system that made those players better. On paper, our weapons were very similar.
 
Does BOB really want Watson. Does Cal want Watson as QB. The only thing that connects is that either or possibly both do not want Watson as QB for whatever reason. Could BOB have traded DHop so Watson would fail and then he could justify putting in his boy McCarron or Cal's choice. Could this just be more of the "inmates running the ......" mentality by BOB and Cal. Duane Brown seems like an intelligent perceptive individual but one who is not going to put up with injustice. Duane told a story but it was ignored and covered up. I think there is definitely something in common with us giving away Brown, Clowney, and DHop. It may be as simple as BOB is a little little man or BOB and McNair or idiots but it could be more.

I don't see Watson being here after his contract is done.

The real story will come out after Watson and BOB are gone. but it is too bad for Texans fans that the real story is not out there yet.
Watson or JJ could say something but it is not their style. Watson at this point may not want to be here anyway.

What a total fricking waste.

What do you think is the real motive or impetus for this move and the others?
Like JFK conspiracy? But honestly I don't know if it was planning or not. However, it's kinda looking like Watson is considering leaving. From his social media anyway
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Does BOB really want Watson. Does Cal want Watson as QB. The only thing that connects is that either or possibly both do not want Watson as QB for whatever reason. Could BOB have traded DHop so Watson would fail and then he could justify putting in his boy McCarron or Cal's choice. Could this just be more of the "inmates running the ......" mentality by BOB and Cal. Duane Brown seems like an intelligent perceptive individual but one who is not going to put up with injustice. Duane told a story but it was ignored and covered up. I think there is definitely something in common with us giving away Brown, Clowney, and DHop. It may be as simple as BOB is a little little man or BOB and McNair or idiots but it could be more.

I don't see Watson being here after his contract is done.

The real story will come out after Watson and BOB are gone. but it is too bad for Texans fans that the real story is not out there yet.
Watson or JJ could say something but it is not their style. Watson at this point may not want to be here anyway.

What a total fricking waste.

What do you think is the real motive or impetus for this move and the others?
You're starting to connect the dots. But it's not what you think. It's 1 Those guys all wanted to be paid. 2. They had other agendas/Clowney/Nuk didn't practice often and Cal/BOB aren't going to pay those kinds of guys big $$$$. You can disagree if you like with them but that's what's going on here.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If OB/Cal want Watson gone, they don't need to to set him up for failure to do so. Hopkins was the best...he was shipped out for peanuts. There is no hidden agenda here....only King O'Briens stupidity on display and a weak owner unwilling to step in.
They had Nuk on the market for over a yr. This was the best deal they could get.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The only way Cal McNair can win back this fanbase, because he may lose it, is to fire Bill O'Brien immediately.
No ifs or buts.
If it means he has to eat his contract, so be it.
O'Brien has now proven several times he is not a GM.
He needs to go - GM's lose their jobs for a trade like Clowney's - now this on top of it?
Smdh.
Personally, I think it is going to happen and probably very soon.
The outcry from the fanbase has to be of concern for Cal.
If you mean 2-3 yrs is soon then you would be correct. I'm going to enjoy the MB reactions in the meantime. They should be very entertaining.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans!!!
You're starting to connect the dots. But it's not what you think. It's 1 Those guys all wanted to be paid. 2. They had other agendas/Clowney/Nuk didn't practice often and Cal/BOB aren't going to pay those kinds of guys big $$$$. You can disagree if you like with them but that's what's going on here.
Then these guys knew the best way to get out of Houston was to demand more money. See neither of them were evidently the first one to use this method. They didn't demand a trade.....they used Cal and OB's weaknesses against them. Ask for more money and you're gone. I don't think any of these players wanted to be gone from Houston.....they wanted to gone from the McNair's and OB.

I'm not going to be surprised if Tunsil and Watson walk as well. How do you think Cal and OB are going to react if Tunsil shoots down their offers b/c they refuse to come up to his numbers? Another trade could be in the works b/c Tunsil will be viewed as a bad seed....locker room cancer.....kind of guy you gotta get rid of for the sake of the team.

When OB starts calling other GM's about Tunsil......they'll lineup while someone gets out a banjo and starts another rendition of Dueling Banjos.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Then these guys knew the best way to get out of Houston was to demand more money. See neither of them were evidently the first one to use this method. They didn't demand a trade.....they used Cal and OB's weaknesses against them. Ask for more money and you're gone. I don't think any of these players wanted to be gone from Houston.....they wanted to gone from the McNair's and OB.

I'm not going to be surprised if Tunsil and Watson walk as well. How do you think Cal and OB are going to react if Tunsil shoots down their offers b/c they refuse to come up to his numbers? Another trade could be in the works b/c Tunsil will be viewed as a bad seed....locker room cancer.....kind of guy you gotta get rid of for the sake of the team.

When OB starts calling other GM's about Tunsil......they'll lineup while someone gets out a banjo and starts another rendition of Dueling Banjos.
Yup.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Then these guys knew the best way to get out of Houston was to demand more money. See neither of them were evidently the first one to use this method. They didn't demand a trade.....they used Cal and OB's weaknesses against them. Ask for more money and you're gone. I don't think any of these players wanted to be gone from Houston.....they wanted to gone from the McNair's and OB.

I'm not going to be surprised if Tunsil and Watson walk as well. How do you think Cal and OB are going to react if Tunsil shoots down their offers b/c they refuse to come up to his numbers? Another trade could be in the works b/c Tunsil will be viewed as a bad seed....locker room cancer.....kind of guy you gotta get rid of for the sake of the team.

When OB starts calling other GM's about Tunsil......they'll lineup while someone gets out a banjo and starts another rendition of Dueling Banjos.
Sad isn't it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Then these guys knew the best way to get out of Houston was to demand more money. See neither of them were evidently the first one to use this method. They didn't demand a trade.....they used Cal and OB's weaknesses against them. Ask for more money and you're gone. I don't think any of these players wanted to be gone from Houston.....they wanted to gone from the McNair's and OB.

I'm not going to be surprised if Tunsil and Watson walk as well. How do you think Cal and OB are going to react if Tunsil shoots down their offers b/c they refuse to come up to his numbers? Another trade could be in the works b/c Tunsil will be viewed as a bad seed....locker room cancer.....kind of guy you gotta get rid of for the sake of the team.

When OB starts calling other GM's about Tunsil......they'll lineup while someone gets out a banjo and starts another rendition of Dueling Banjos.
Being cheapa$$e$ is a McNair family tradition.

This existed long before BOB got here.

2010
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
OB has done nothing to change the culture.....makes him as guilty as RS and as bad as Casserly.
Disagree,

What are you talking about when it comes to culture. I'm talking about in meeting/practice etc....

The types of players they're acquiring?

As far as the McNair's being cheapa$$e$ that aint gonna change. But the type of guys that have been brought in is changing. Example: Stills/Howard/Scharping/Tunsil.

On defense Roby/Howard/Jernigan/Conley/Reid

There's a difference.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Disagree,

What are you talking about when it comes to culture. I'm talking about in meeting/practice etc....

The types of players they're acquiring?

As far as the McNair's being cheapa$$e$ that aint gonna change. But the type of guys that have been brought in is changing. Example: Stills/Howard/Scharping/Tunsil.

On defense Roby/Howard/Jernigan/Conley/Reid

There's a difference.
I'm interested in your opinion on what makes those guys different and to whom (former players) are you comparing them too.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm interested in your opinion on what makes those guys different and to whom (former players) are you comparing them too.
I will use Nuk as an example.

Nuk was trained up by AJ.

A.J. never missed practice and was a role model for younger WR's.

Nuk not so much, which young WR have you heard of that Nuk took under his wing? There were articles about AJ taking Nuk under his wing.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
I will use Nuk as an example.

Nuk was trained up by AJ.

A.J. never missed practice and was a role model for younger WR's.

Nuk not so much, which young WR have you heard of that Nuk took under his wing? There were articles about AJ taking Nuk under his wing.
It probably doesn't get much press but here is one article:

However, this is not about right or wrong, I was wondering how the players you listed were different types of players vs what had been acquired in the past.
 

Earl34

Veteran
I don't know how this narrative started that Hopkins was a bad teammate, but here are articles on Hopkins mentoring Fuller and even Vyncint Smith. I guess that's how things works in the internet age. Repeat something enough, no one challenges the statement and it's taken as the truth:

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-DeAndre-Hopkins-a-valuable-mentor-to-13177138.php

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/DeAndre-Hopkins-mentoring-Texans-rookie-Vyncint-13111776.php

"Andre Johnson did a great job of mentoring me," Hopkins said. "So, it's only right that I do the same for those young guys and help them become whatever they want in the NFL."
--Deandre Hopkins
 
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