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Buck Harvey gets it, hopefully the Texans will as well.

TexansFight

Veteran
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.
 
TexansFight, it is 'fans' like you that will eventually lead me to root against the Texans.
 
TexansFight said:
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

Anyone out there REALLY think that VY puts football ahead of his faith? Just curious.

I really don't know how to respond to this thread.
 
TexansFight said:
As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB.

I am not a Carr supporter by any means but as far as the above statement is concerned, Carr's order is correct. God & Family come first, football second.

Oh, and Marcus, if another fan can get you to go against the Texans, then good riddance to ya.
 
TexansFight said:
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.


Buddy, you just walked in the land where Carr can do no wrong and nothing is his fault. Boy are you about to be flamed!
 
Well, i don't fault carr for putting faith and family first. This can still be done in addition to putting in the necessary hours of work and overtime. I think it's time for you to find a new team to support and if you go against the texans because the qb is committed to his faith and family, then, it's good to see you leaving the texans fan base.
 
kbourda said:
Buddy, you just walked in the land where Carr can do no wrong and nothing is his fault. Boy are you about to be flamed!

This has nothing to do with Carr. My problem is with the statement (same as Porky used, hmmm...) that Carr puts family and faith first. If a person puts his career ahead of his faith or his family, there is something wrong with his priorities IMHO.
 
2004 - Sean Taylor is God!
2005 - Derrick Johnson is God!
2006 - Reggie . . errr . . Vince Young is God!

I get it already! :ok:
 
Marcus, you have to be the biggest VY hater and Carr apologist on any board I've seen.

Please change your avatar before you start making me hate one of my favorite albums of all time. ;)
 
It is possible for people to work in a business while putting family and faith infront of their jobs. I've seen it with people on a local level, where I live, and on a national level.
 
Hulk75 said:
Yea, he couldnot even get the ball in an area 20 yards wide and 60 yards away, 2/3 were out of bounds by 10 yards.
Yea, and Bush couldn't even get on the field when the game was on the line. This happened on more than one occasion. See the ND game when Leinert QB sneaked it 2 playes in a row or a few plays earlier when it was 4th and 9. Where was he then.....well just like you said, out of bounds (a.k.a. on the bench). Don't even get me started on the UT game either, he was the change of pace back where Fatboy was the feature back. Yeah, let's draft Bush, I wouldn't mind going 5-11 on average for the next 3 years until we let carrs' option desintergrate and draft another kid from CA. Lets just move the F@#%$ team to CA while we're at it. We can called the LA Earthquakes cuz watching us lose game after game will cause the fans to want throw the team in one.
 
Wow, incredible if you believe for a minute that any athlete in the NFL puts football above their family.
 
As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB.


I hope ALL people would be that way. Football, or any other sport or profession for that matter, is TRIVIAL compared to GOD and FAMILY.

I know you probably didn't intend for THAT to come out like it sounded. :)
 
I don't think "family and faith" is an issue with Carr. God bless him for having priorities and not being married to the job. The issue is whether or not he puts in the requisite hours to get the job done.

I don't really care whether a guy studies film like Manning or sleeps at the office like Gruden. You can be Bob Stoops and take it easy or be like Ben Roethlisberger and "Drink Like a Champion" and still be great and win championships. Just get it done. So far, Carr really hasn't got the job done, so the question about whether he puts the hours in is legitimate. Carr's been paid a ton of money, and hasn't performed to expectations (regardless of the deficiencies around him). He's about to get a franchise QB bonus that he hasn't earned; being tough and handling failure builds character, but it doesn't make you a winner or good QB. This is the beef. So it doesn't matter whether it's a bowling league, bridge game, or family/religious commitment that's keeping him from allegedly putting in the requisite time. Do your job, earn your money.

The Buck Harvey article is good (if you are a Vince Young fan). So for everybody hating on Vince and McLain and Justice, just know that it's not only Houston and it's writers that want Young in a Texans jersey. It's San Antonio, Austin (obviously), and you better believe Dallas would want him and might still if we pass. Whether it matters to you guys or not, drafting Young would build regional support for the Texans... "We are Texas' team."
 
the wonger need food said:
Now you're not a "fan" if you don't have a man-crush on Davie Franchise. Funny stuff.

Has more to do with the faith and family angle(as has been stated), of course, you are going to twist it anyway to a Carr-lover angle.
 
TexansFight said:
As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team.

An athlete gets his prioritys RIGHT ans we still bash him.

WTF is up with some of you people?

And for teh skills cahllenge, it's rpobaly the porrest measure of ability will see this offseason. it was a MADE FOR TV event, not a scouting oppurtunity.
 
Hulk75 said:
Yea, he couldnot even get the ball in an area 20 yards wide and 60 yards away, 2/3 were out of bounds by 10 yards.

***VY HATER ALERT***

***VY HATER ALERT***

Hulk75, you conveniently leave out:

-VY wasn't the only one who threw out of bounds

-The 2 passes that he threw out of bounds were over 70 yards, not 60, and further than anyone else in or out

-It was extremely windy, yet he still finished 2nd

-He also finished 2nd in the accuracy contest

-He was the only QB to hit any target in the obstacle course, in which he just killed

If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.
 
Htown34s said:
If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.

I didn't watch the show. What other QBs were there?
 
Htown34s said:
***VY HATER ALERT***

***VY HATER ALERT***

Hulk75, you conveniently leave out:

-VY wasn't the only one who threw out of bounds

-The 2 passes that he threw out of bounds were over 70 yards, not 60, and further than anyone else in or out

-It was extremely windy, yet he still finished 2nd

-He also finished 2nd in the accuracy contest

-He was the only QB to hit any target in the obstacle course, in which he just killed

If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.

But who was there, beside VY? Yup thats rigth the second and third teir talent guys (Brodie Croyle, Charlie Whitehurst, and Drew Olson). Hardly worth competition for teh demi-god VY,right?
 
Does anyone here know how many hours Carr spends on preparation? TexansFight, you're first. I guess by the logic floating around, our offensive line is very good, we should have kept our coaching staff and let Carr go. Oh, and Casserly is doing a great job. I love the burnt orange logic, it makes sense.
 
TexansFight said:
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

This guy is a columnist...yet he cannot even gramatically phrase his sentences correctly..."reported he is cares more about his family"... You don't "he is nothing" sir...LOL!!! This article is a freaking joke if you ask me....
 
Carr spends an adequate amount of time in the film room and working out. Now he will need to spend more in order to learn the new system and nuances. He also will need to spend more to ensure that he can drag the team from obscurity.
 
TexansFight said:
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.


To start off, I've already made my case that I don't care who the Texans pick or who they keep/trade away. I will support my team regardless who the QB or running back is. Why is it that this board has turned into a fan bashing, current QB, college QB and college running back bashing board? This has got to be the lowest level of a fan base that I have witnessed in the existence of this message board. It has gotten to the point where some of you are dogging out someone who cares about their family and puts God as a priority! Do you really grasp the jest of you argument? You need to get a life and stop trying to totally analyze the aspects of everyone elses. From reading your point of view, I take it that you must be an extremely successful work-a-holic who doesn't give a crap about their family or God....am I right? It sure seems like that's what you expect out of our pro football players.
 
Hulk75 said:
Yea way to finish second behind Croyle and Olson, #1 pick for sure.
I just read that article and came away laughing. And TexansFight is a lawyer???? you better bring better ammo than that fluff piece, especially when your QB doesn't even win the competition, and that's without Lienart being there. Weak, weak takes are too many around here these days.
 
TexansFight said:
Great column by Buck Harvey concerning VY:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/bharvey/stories/MYSA020706.1D.buck.12a0280.html

I don't get Carr apologists. What about him makes you think he can lead us to the promised land. As it has been widely reported he is cares more about his family and his religion than he does being a winning QB. That is not the type of guy I want leading my team. I want a guy with a burning desire to win and be a champion.

VY is that guy. Did you guys see him in the college football skills competition. There wasn't a throw he could not make.

It looks like his priorities are in order then, your faith and family should come ahead of your career. Do you put your job as the #1 priority in your life ahead of your faith, family, friends, and whatever else?

I'll leave the Vince and the skills competition comment alone. After saying that you've seen nothing out of Carr to make you think he can lead this team, you go and bring up the ESPN skills competition as evidence of Vince's abilities (no I'm not knocking Vince on this thread, just pointing out you should use a better source of demonstrating Vince's skills to try and make your point).
 
Big B Texan Fan said:
Yea, and Bush couldn't even get on the field when the game was on the line. This happened on more than one occasion. See the ND game when Leinert QB sneaked it 2 playes in a row or a few plays earlier when it was 4th and 9. Where was he then.....well just like you said, out of bounds (a.k.a. on the bench). Don't even get me started on the UT game either, he was the change of pace back where Fatboy was the feature back. Yeah, let's draft Bush, I wouldn't mind going 5-11 on average for the next 3 years until we let carrs' option desintergrate and draft another kid from CA. Lets just move the F@#%$ team to CA while we're at it. We can called the LA Earthquakes cuz watching us lose game after game will cause the fans to want throw the team in one.

You know, this is true about Bush. I was watching the Rose Bowl game again on ESPN Classic specifically to watch Bush and Young, and Bush wasn't on the field for most of the 4th QTR, not just when the game was on the line. Maybe it was because when he was playing he was being kept in check by Texas. Bush did gain 82 yards on 13 carries however 26 of those yards was on one play. I honestly don't get how this guy cannot be on the field if he is the "greatest player to come out of college in a long time". I honestly think it is going to be a disaster if the "worm" get's his way and drafts Bush.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
But who was there, beside VY? Yup thats rigth the second and third teir talent guys (Brodie Croyle, Charlie Whitehurst, and Drew Olson). Hardly worth competition for teh demi-god VY,right?

So you think he can't throw, but he is a demigod? Which one is it?

Another thing about VY Haters is that they will never be satisfied with anything he accomplishes until he wins the Super Bowl for some other team, while Carr has $50 million from us in the bank for doing squat.

At least he had the nads to show up, unlike Leinart & Cutler.
 
Hulk75 said:
And the ones he missed were not 70 yards I saw and went back to see it again. Try again.

Sure, I have it Tivo'ed. You can't see where they went out of bounds because of the camera angle, but the commentators said they were 70 yards. Guess I'll just take your word for it, he sucks.
 
SESupergenius said:
I just read that article and came away laughing. And TexansFight is a lawyer???? you better bring better ammo than that fluff piece, especially when your QB doesn't even win the competition, and that's without Lienart being there. Weak, weak takes are too many around here these days.

Harvey's a little bit off on his facts, and yes he is a columnist, but he is a good one. Young finished second in the distance thing, second in the accuracy thing, and first in the agility thing. There was no overall winner, but if there were a points system he would've won it. The comp. meant nothing, so don't read into it either way. Harvey is right that Young was throwing a hard, tight, ball. I don't know if he talked to scouts after watching the thing, or if he's just being metaphorical, because earlier AP reports said there were no scouts in attendance. They might have watched it on TV, it might mean nothing to them, but there were a few standout performances by Jackson, Davis, and Young.
 
Another Texas columnist who thinks Young would have performed better in the Super Bowl than Roethlisberger or Hasselbeck did. Why? Well didn't you see the Rose Bowl or the Battle of the College Football All-Stars? That's about the same as the Super Bowl..
 
Htown34s said:
***VY HATER ALERT***

***VY HATER ALERT***

Hulk75, you conveniently leave out:

-VY wasn't the only one who threw out of bounds

-The 2 passes that he threw out of bounds were over 70 yards, not 60, and further than anyone else in or out

-It was extremely windy, yet he still finished 2nd

-He also finished 2nd in the accuracy contest

-He was the only QB to hit any target in the obstacle course, in which he just killed

If you watched that show and couldn't tell that VY was head and shoulders above any other QB there then I feel sorry for you.

*VINCE YOUNG LOVER ALERT*

I'm glad Vince was head and shoulders above Drew Olson, Charlie Whitehurst coming off of shoulder surgery, and Brodie Croyle.
Throwing the ball 70 yards doesn't matter much when you miss your target by 15-20 yards off to the side.
The obstacle course is what he should excel at, Olson is a pure pocket passer, Whitehurst is a pocket passer recovering from a shoulder surgery, and Brodie Croyle didn't even try after losing the ball.
Either way, this was an entertainment event, it was not any kind of good indication of what these guys will do in the NFL. Yes people that don't have a crush on Vince will point things he didn't do well in there, and yes others with a Vince crush will claim how that skills competition show that Vince will be a hall of famer.

People, get over the skills competition already, they had a very small group of guys there and it was meant to fill an hour of a TV slot during Super Bowl weekend, it is not meant as a prime scouting tool.
 
Coach C. said:
Wow, incredible if you believe for a minute that any athlete in the NFL puts football above their family.

We agree -

Signed Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, and Ben Rothlesburger.

01222004_drunk_Joe_Namath.jpg
 
Htown34s said:
So you think he can't throw, but he is a demigod? Which one is it?

Another thing about VY Haters is that they will never be satisfied with anything he accomplishes until he wins the Super Bowl for some other team, while Carr has $50 million from us in the bank for doing squat.

At least he had the nads to show up, unlike Leinart & Cutler.

I'll go slow, and drop the sarcasm so you can under stand.

1) I do not think VY has an NFL caliber arm, especailly one that would justify teh #1 overall pick. Any QB can throw the 40-50 yarder over teh middle, the established gold standard for an NFL QB is the 15 yard out route. This is the thorw that makes an NFL QB in the eyes of talent evaluators.

2) I am not a VY hater, I don't think teh TExans should draft him, but I will admit what he did in college defied logic at times. He may be the greatest college QB ever. As for an NFL QB, I have some doubts. The NCAA does NOT equal the NFL.

3) I was rather shocked VY showed up, and it has nothing to do with "nads". No agent of a top 10 pick should allow his client to attend one of these things. Buch, Cutler and Leinart got good advice, and I'm starting to get concerns about the advice VY is getting.

Oh and one last thing, how heavy is VY's jock, and do you get tired carrying it around all day? And why can't all teh VY Lovers argue a point without resorting to calling people names and not addressing teh facts or points brought to their attention?
 
Porky is that suppose to be what I dont get it. They all put family above football. So where were you going with that.
 
Htown34s said:
So you think he can't throw, but he is a demigod? Which one is it?

Another thing about VY Haters is that they will never be satisfied with anything he accomplishes until he wins the Super Bowl for some other team, while Carr has $50 million from us in the bank for doing squat.

At least he had the nads to show up, unlike Leinart & Cutler.

Carr has received about $35 million to play with horrendous coaching and sub-par surrounding talent while most rookie QBs get the luxury of coming to established teams and getting to sit out for a year or two while they learn the game and system rather than being launched into the line of fire for an expansion team and given very little help from his coaching staff and personnel department.

Another thing on the Bush side of it, he was in the game at the end of the Notre Dame game, he's the one that helped push Leinart into the end zone. As for the UT game, football is a game of matchups and LenDale White's size and power matched up better with the UT defense than Bush's speed, and if one player is working better against a team in a particular game, why take him out and try to force your other guy to take carries?
 
kbourda said:
Buddy, you just walked in the land where Carr can do no wrong and nothing is his fault. Boy are you about to be flamed!
Its b/c he is white.
Na just kidding with ya. Are you feeling a running joke coming on?:)
 
Caveat: all the data (combine) is not in. If the combine changes things then so will (happily, as I bleed burnt orange) my opinion.

Sorry for the length.

I don't understand the Bush v. VY debate. VY is not even considered top 5 material on many boards. Some boards have him anywhere from 7-15. Certainly he is not top two on anyones board except for those who think Carr sucks. Perhaps Carr does suck, but that would still not make it a responsible business decision, again at this time, to take VY with the #1 overall. Now, if we know Carr sucks (which we don't, come on, do you really think you know better than actual NFL coaches?), we could trade down a few spots, pick-up a bunch of picks in the deal and then get VY, then by all means consider it. But if you are going to stay at #1 VY is not a responsible pick. It is a reach and a terible gamble for a franchise who needs to get the closest thing to a sure thing in the draft, we need help, not potential. Never complain to anyone about Cassrely's gambles in the 2nd and 3rd rounds if you want VY with the #1. He is not as good of a prospect to NFL scouts as Bush OR Leinert, and I suspect those scouts and coaches know just a little more about football than you.

I agree that he has the most upside pontential of any QB I've seen coming out of the draft, maybe ever, but his bust potential is just as high. Higher, imho, than anyone in the top 15. In addition to the questions surrounding *every* QB entry, VY has issues surrounding his release, accuracy, arm strength, footwork, and the fact that he played in one of the simplest systems in college football behind one of the best o-line units. Can he handle the complexity of the NFL? Can he play his position with 1-3 less seconds to make his decision every time? *You don't know*. No one does. No one ever does. Also consider this. Most of VY's rushing yards came on that *simple* zone read play Texas ran ad nauseum, albeit to great effect, but would you really *want* him running all the time in the NFL? Injuries anyone? Why do you think every QB, even Vick, is taught to slide and run out of bounds?
The Question you have to ask yourself is whether or not he is the best prospect to be a dominating *pocket passer* in the NFL? The rest is gravy, if the rest is not gravy then you are gambling your entire season on every play you design for him to run. If the answer to the above question is maybe, but Leinert has a better chance of doing that, then what are we even discussing here? If you want a QB change you should want the most NFL ready prospect out there. Or do you want some kid who is a hometown hero who, like all rookie QB's, has a small chance to light it up from the get-go but realistically will ride the pine till Carr's contract is up, create a huge QB controversy in the mean time in the media and possibly within the locker room? Yummy, I can't wait to draft Vince.

Prior to the combine data the writing is on the wall, no matter how hard you bang your head against it. We will select Bush, we will not pass go or collect two hundred dollars. Either that or we will trade down for O-line or defense plus picks. There is a slim possibility that we will trade down for VY, assuming he doesn't increase his stock at the combine, but I wouldn't bet on it. Truth is, we don't know what we have in Carr. I am of the opinion that he can be a solid performer who shows spectacular from time to time, a notch above Dilfer. That is enough to keep him and draft at a position of greater need. That is how NFL teams do it.

Bush scares the heck out of every NFL D-coordinator, his first day, at 4(!) positions; RB, slot, wide, and PR. He just has too much speed, grace, cut-back ability and vision for teams to take him lightly no matter where he lines up. In addition he can run a screen, reverse, shovel pass, etc. from any of those positions, adding an additional layer of unpredictability and deception that we have never had. He is a game plan changer and a game breaker. DD actually gives the opponent a game plan, every team knows his outside potential is 40 not 100. That is not to diminish him, he is a chain mover, and thus valuable, but he is not a game breaker. Bush can go 100 on any play if the D makes one mistake and everyone in the league knows it, that is why he is viewed universally as the top prospect in the draft.

With Bush lined up as a reciever with AJ opposite and (hopefully) Mathis, you simply cannot blitz DB's. If you blitz a linebacker, allowing him to cross and catch in stride, you will hear a collective gasp from the crowd. If you let any of those guys behind you it is six. That is playing with live fire, facing one very sub 4.4 guy (who happens to be a physical beast) and two sub 4.3 guys, forget about it. If you line him up in the back field, his afore mentioned skills force DE's to play contain at the edges, respecting his ability to cut back and go the distance. They *cannot* affoard to gamble and crash in on Carr, nor can they gamble and rush upfield to get to Carr from the rear of the pocket, even on passing downs. Not when you have a running / screen / shovel-pass threat that can go 100 with the tiniest slip-up of any part of the defensive unit.

If you line him up in the backfield DT's and LB's and DE's will, again, have to respect his ability to go the distance and stay at home, maintain gap integrity, and NEVER over-pursue. Bush alone makes a huge impact on our pass protection problems. Last year teams did not have to play honest with us. With the addition of the speed and open field running ability of Bush, now they do. No more doubling AJ and sending the world. No more siting back, lazily in cover two or three and daring DD to beat them with short runs and catches while sending the world at Carr. Now they have to account for at least two game breakers (possibly three, if Mathis matures into his potential), and that takes the gamble out of a front seven and puts intense pressure on DB's.

If we pick up a mauler interior o-lineman with the first pick of the second (and there will be some there this year) and a respectable TE in the third or FA or Joppru finally pans out, our pass protection problems will be over. The trip to the candy store in Houston just got cancelled. I think there will be good value for TE's in the third, especially with the #1 pick of that round. I think Klopfenstein will be available, likewise David Thomas and Dominique Byrd. Poof, our offense is fixed unless Carr really does suck and in that case we will have another high pick next year to replace him. But we can't make that determination now. I am not a Carr apologist, he has sucked, period. However I am a realist and I know that if he has only one weapon that scares anybody (AJ), and that weapon can be neutralized simply (which, unfortunalely, to this point is the reality), *and* he plays behind a LITERALLY historically bad pass protecting offensive line, we just don't have the data necessary to judge him fully. Give him what every winning QB in the league has; weapons, time and NFL level coaching (I can't believe I had to add that last one), then make a final pronouncement.

We will have to address D next year. Or perhaps a key FA acquisition or two will do some good. I think that we most need a free safety and an interior linebacker if we stay 3-4, if we go 4-3 we most need a free safety and probably a DE. I think Babin can play at 285 and hold down one end position, albeit probably not spectacularly, but you have to pick your battles, no?
 
Interesting take on the Vince and Reggie debate and I agree with a lot of it. However, adding a "mauling" interior OLineman is not going to help our pass protection, plus since we are using a zone blocking scheme a big mauler (I assume you're referring to guys like Jean-Gilles or Lutui) is not a good fit. In addition, Babin would have trouble playing at 285 lbs. and there is no reason for him to, he doesn't need to be that big to play a 4-3 DE. He is currently 259, and getting up to 265 or 270 would maybe help, but anything above that is unnecessary and is going to slow him down and make him more prone to injuries.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
3) I was rather shocked VY showed up, and it has nothing to do with "nads". No agent of a top 10 pick should allow his client to attend one of these things. Buch, Cutler and Leinart got good advice, and I'm starting to get concerns about the advice VY is getting.

I'm concerned about the advice Vernon Davis, Sinorice Moss, and DeAngelo Williams are getting too. They are managed poorly and this reflects negatively on them, right.
 
Mork is right and good post mikoto(even though it was long as my "well you get it it was long") Babin will likely be about 265 coming into camp and Peek should be around 255. That is big enough for both of them assuming that most of it is strength and muscle to play opposite a detractor defensive end like Mario Williams.
 
MorKnolle said:
Carr has received about $35 million to play with horrendous coaching and sub-par surrounding talent while most rookie QBs get the luxury of coming to established teams and getting to sit out for a year or two while they learn the game and system rather than being launched into the line of fire for an expansion team and given very little help from his coaching staff and personnel department.

So are you saying Carr has been underpaid for what he has had to endure? He is about to get another $25 million to up that total to around $60 million. Would you have made this same statement after year 3 when the Texans went 7-9 and 75% of this bb was saying playoffs for year 4?

As far as rookie qbs going to established teams and sitting for a year or two it just isn't the norm anymore. The game has changed since free agency. The most crippling factor for Carr since day 1 hasn't been that he was thrown out there in a starting role. IMHO it has been that he was handed the starting job without ever competing for it and never has for 4 years.
 
mikoto said:
The trip to the candy store in Houston just got cancelled.
Good first post. :ok:

I love that line. I hope I get a chance to steal that at some point next season. :)
 
bckey said:
So are you saying Carr has been underpaid for what he has had to endure? He is about to get another $25 million to up that total to around $60 million. Would you have made this same statement after year 3 when the Texans went 7-9 and 75% of this bb was saying playoffs for year 4?

As far as rookie qbs going to established teams and sitting for a year or two it just isn't the norm anymore. The game has changed since free agency. The most crippling factor for Carr since day 1 hasn't been that he was thrown out there in a starting role. IMHO it has been that he was handed the starting job without ever competing for it and never has for 4 years.

I never said Carr got underpaid for what he's done, I was saying he's only gotten $35 million, not the $50 million that was stated in the previous post. Yes he's about to get another $24 million for three more years.

It is tough for rookie QBs to start right away. In Carr's situation, add to it that the coaches give you a lousy offense to run in especially in year 4 and give you such a lousy team to play with (one legitimate WR, one legitimate RB, one decent WR [Gaff] that plays behind a guy that can't catch a ball, no TE, and a horrible OLine), plus lousy individual coaching to improve your personal skills. Very few rookie QBs see much action other than if the starter gets hurt (Palmer sat a whole year, Eli sat half a year and should have sat the whole year, Rivers is still sitting, Alex Smith sat half a year, Aaron Rodgers sat a whole year, Big Ben and Kyle Orton only got in due to injuries).
 
I agree with you mork just one correction Eli only sat half a year also, he got in after the Giants lost three in a row under Warner last year. They were 4-3 or 4-4 when Eli took over the reigns and effectively ended their season.
 
Coach C. said:
I agree with you mork just one correction Eli only sat half a year also, he got in after the Giants lost three in a row under Warner last year. They were 4-3 or 4-4 when Eli took over the reigns and effectively ended their season.

Post edited for that. Good eye once again.
 
Dr. Toro said:
I'm concerned about the advice Vernon Davis, Sinorice Moss, and DeAngelo Williams are getting too. They are managed poorly and this reflects negatively on them, right.

A) None of those guys have a chance of being teh #1 overall pick

B) I never said it reflected basly on VY, just that I'm concerned the about the advice he is getting. See Ricky Willams first NFL contract.

C) Once again I NEVER said it reflected poorly on VY.

But if I must, once again the VY fan club picks a minor point in a post, written by somebody who doesn't agree with them, and harps on that. So please Dr Toro tell me, was it a good group of QBs at this made for tv event ot judge VY against? Have you ever seen him throw a good, and I mean NFL goo not college good, pass to a recevier running a 15 yard out route?

Becasue I say no one both counts, and before anybody yells at me; I saw damn near every snap of UT football this year and last year.
 
When i say "mauler" I mean that he plays nasty and effective. Not that he is a huge fat-bag, ala Giles. Although I have to admit, I like Jean-Giles, but not for our team. He's just so darn mean and nasty, he loves to pancake guys, I love that.

Babin, you're right, would probably be more effective around 270. I believe he carried this weight or a little more in College. I'm not going to bother looking it up.

In the NFL it is the norm for an incumbent starter just given a huge extension to be given the reigns unless absolutely forced out of his job. That is tough to do on the practice field and the bench. It would probably require a Carr injury to get VY in the game. What I am describing is a "grooming" scenario. That is what the Texans would be thinking if they pay Carr big-time starter money and then draft a QB, yes, even VY. And again, unless something drastically changes at the combine, VY will not go #1, so he will not be getting #1 money.

Edit:
This guy: Davin Joseph OG 312 Oklahoma 6'2" 304 5.12 or
This guy: Charles Spencer Pitt 6'4" 330 5.15, he's a little big but he's athletic.

The reason I like interiior o-linemen in this draft, as opposed to Tackle, is due to the number of premium Tackles in this draft. Some elite Guards will get pushed down. Also, our weakness isn't at Tackle. It's at Center and left Guard. We have never given our QB the luxury of simply stepping up into a pocket, lol. Rookie supplats Steve "I go backwards" McKinney, Pitts has shown he can hold down LT, after that we have only one weakness on the O-line; Todd Wade. Wade is a good run blocker, but a poor pass blocker. Football people know that it is relatively easy to cover up one weakness on a line, in this case just don't leave him isolated against above average DE's. But as you introduce more weaknesses the difficulty in hiding them increases geometricly, because every weakness gives your opponent multiple options to exploit it, not just the obvious one of man-on-man. McKinney is a serviceable back-up at all three positions on the interior and that makes him suddenly a very attractive player to have. This makes us very strong there.

Edit 2: Seems Babin played at 276 in College (unverified college info) but weighed in at 260 at the combine.

Also, I have a question? Why is Hodgdon seen as not athletic? He can BP pver 500 pounds, ran a 5.28 at the combine while not spectacular certainly does not put him in the "slow" category for linemen. His lateral quickness was judged good, his strength in fact. The knock was that he was a little light (Kubiak anyone?) and lacked ideal lower body strength (I wonder if this is still the case?).
 
Carr's base salaries were:

2002 $1.04 million
2003 $550k
2004 $660k
2005 $5.5 million

He received a signing bonus of $10.92 million in '02 and an option bonus of $3.08 million in '03.

There might have been assorted workout/reporting bonuses that haven't been widely reported but the money above (~22 million) is the bulk of what he's been paid since he's been here.
 
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