The year Barwin was picked up from the Texans by Philly, 2012, he had just 3 sacks (playing the WILL LB, which is designed to get the most sacks). The year after that, at Philly, he had 5 sacks.
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Brooks Reed - signed w/Falcons
- Thread starter TexansFight
- Start date
The year Barwin was picked up from the Texans by Philly, 2012, he had just 3 sacks (playing the WILL LB, which is designed to get the most sacks). The year after that, at Philly, he had 5 sacks.
In 2011, Barwin had 11.5 sacks. His second year in Philly (last year) he had 14.5 sacks. Also, in his first year in Philly, he had 12 passes defensed and an INT.
I'm just saying Reed hasn't quite posted those kinds of numbers.
I was still hoping we'd move him along side Cushing at ILB. He'd probably make a good thumper.
I don't think the strong side lb in a 3-4 ever puts up those kind of numbers. Different job
Matthews moved to ILB this year.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Merriman played ROLB. Matthews has played both but predominantly ROLB.
Part time toward the end of the season.
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yep, there's a reason Left tackle is paid more than a right tackle. The best pass rusher spends most of the time on the left...
typically the weak side but not so much anymore with the move tight ends
Are you sure about that? I "remember" them coming at the QB from his front side more times than not.
Clay
LightsOut
You usually see the speed guys on the right side (defense). The power (explosive) guys are generally on the left. These guys generally offer a blend of the two traits, but generally speaking, speed/power guys are pitted against LTs & power/speed guys play against the right side.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Please clarify terminology. My understanding is that the offensive strong side is typically the right side, the side the TE lines up on. So, the LOLB is the strong side LB.
The LT represents the weak side, but is on an island as far as blocking goes, being one-on-one against the DE or OLB. So the ROLB is the weak side LB.
Either I'm backwards in my thinking, or the statement above is. You wouldn't put your best pass rusher on the left side because then you'd have him doubled teamed by the TE and the RT.
Now, is Reed the LOLB, or the ROLB?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not sure where the confusion is because y'all are saying the same thing.
Generally: LT goes up against ROLB/WLB, RT goes up against LOLB/SLB
Reed is LOLB/SLB
Matthews moved after the 10th game (and got 8 sacks after the move).
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This is what I was trying to say. The right side of the defense is where your best pass rusher normally is.
Just trying to get across the point that those that are blaming Reed for not having big sack #'s are looking for something that ain't gonna happen. He's not expected to. He did get 3 sacks this year, which is good for the position and what he's asked to do.
Without looking, who was the SOLB opposite Merriman when he was putting up huge sack #'s?
The one opposite Ware?
He lines up at ILB on that play... then comes around the LT.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No he is not. He's lined up even with the DL to their right and outside the LT.
That's not true. Strahan, Peppers, Taylor, Merriman, & Matthews lined up on the left side of the defense the majority of the time. Generally you'll get your premier speed rushers on the right side of the defense... Ware, Freeney, Jared Cook.
But it's not a hard & fast rule, sometimes you'll get a guy like Suggs, who isn't really a speed guy, but generally lines up on the right.
If Reed was any good at getting to the QB, the coaching staff would ask him to do more of it. It's no secret that we need more than just Watt putting pressure on the QB. If I saw Reed getting in on more plays, whether it be defending a pass, a TFL, a sack, or a hurry, I wouldn't have a problem with him starting on the team. But if he's just the guy who "sets the edge" we don't need to spend veteran minimum to retain his services.
Plenty of guys in the league who can set the edge & come off that block to get the tackle more often than Brooks does. Plenty of guys who can cover tightends & drop into zone coverage & actually break up a pass more often than Brooks Reed does.
If the coaches don't expect Brooks Reed to produce more than he's producing, we need new coaches.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And is a freak 3-4 DE.
Merriman was the SOLB. They were constantly trying to find someone to take the other spot. They never paid that guy big money, until Merriman wasn't Merriman anymore & they got Sean Phillips (who had one "good" year I think, but never replaced Merriman).
The guy opposite Ware, pretty much the same. No one worth keeping. They continued to roll guys through that position looking for something special.
Scooter
Funky
Watt was second in sacks.
My mistake... there are several plays in that clip. The first two kind of bled together for me...
whisky.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Pro-football-reference does a good job of tracking.
Strahan yes LDE
Peppers was LDE for 6 seasons and RDE for 6 seasons.
Taylor was RDE
Merriman was ROLB
Matthews has had 2 seasons at LOLB and 3 at ROLB
I'd say pretty poor, not merely "hit and miss".
How about Tevardo Williams, 4th rnd?
Or, Sam Montgomery 3rd rnd?
Cheta Ozougwu?
Where has Bullough gone? Dent? Sapp? Simon?
And through it all, Reed has continued to start at ROLB
Aren't we a little tired of letting guys go in FA that end up in the Pro-bowl. Barwin, DeMeco, Glover, Jones, M. Williams, Daniels?
I'm going by memory. I don't remember those guys making plays on the QBs blindside. They QB generally saw them get free, pulled the ball down, & got sacked. Jason Taylor I may be wrong about... but those other guys I don't remember them going against premier LTs too often.
I know my memory doesn't hold as much clout as pfr, so I pulled up those two highlight reels earlier & they confirmed what I remembered about the two guys we were talking about then. They were in the QBs face, not sneaking up on his backside.
If the coaches (two different coaching staffs) expect Reed to get big sack numbers and he's not doing it, why has he been the starter for 4 seasons?
Who's next in line?
& he doesn't need to get "big" sack numbers. More production is what I said, passes defensed, TFLs, to go along with his sacks.
Solid player... maybe. Should we pay more than league minimum to keep him?
No.
who completely surprised people, Hali was expected to be the big sack guy
Maybe what Reed's "production" is, is that he's JJ's clean-up boy. JJ can rush all the time and from whatever gap he chooses. Reed takes care of the mess that's left over. Some folks think that Reed should get "gaudy" stats with Watt always (a lot of times) getting double teamed. In fact, it's the other way around. Watt gets gaudy stats cause he can rely on Reed to watch his back.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yep. If JJ had a consistent threat like Hali opposite him, he may have put up 30 sacks...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'm guessing JB and Crennel were thinking more ROLB given Hali and Clowney...and Antonio's departure.
That's not what I'm saying at all. If that's all the coaches want out of Reed (& it may very well be) we don't need to pay more than veteran minimum for it.
That's all I'm saying.
Who is JB?
What you are saying is that a player of Reed's skill should command only a league minimum salary--a statement of what you think the market is for players like Reed. Let's wait and see how much you know about football. FA begins in a little more than 2 weeks.
Nope... not at all. I'm saying for his production. You're saying his skill is actually capable of delivering more than what he's produced for us over the last four years.
I'm saying a player stolen off another team's practice squad like John Simon could play decoy for Jj Watt.
Thanks Rick
Who thinks Simon could be a suitable replacement for Reed at a fraction of the cost?
Number19
Hall of Fame
OK, this is precisely as I thought; but now, what is the offensive blocking scheme for that side? If the RT is on Reed then that means the RG must be going one-on-one on Crick. Either that, or the TE is on Reed and with either Reed or Crick is being doubled teamed by the RT. And neither Reed or Crick is getting sacks? I went back and looked at scouting reports on Crick; and while he graded out fairly well against single blocking, he wasn't able to effectively handle double teams. We also have another problem in that if we bring Swearinger up into the box to cover the TE, freeing up Reed to rush, we have a mismatch with Swearinger covering larger TE's. To get around this, Swearinger would have to be the one to bring the pressure for the outside left.
Seems to me like we have three defensive problems to upgrade before we can start improving the effectiveness of our defensive left side.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
JJ is next to Reed most of the time not Crick. JJ lines up all over from outside the RT to over the RG.
This is an instance where PFR is wrong and lists JJ as RDE last season.
This is an instance where PFR is wrong and lists JJ as RDE last season.
Yes, but there's not much a team can do when there's a salary cap and the the team had other players (Foster, Myers, Brown, JJo, etc..) they needed to sign. The Texans made their choices and kept the players they thought would give them the best chance to win while trying to fill in the holes with draft picks or other cheaper FA's to stay just under the cap. It worked for awhile (2011 & 2012), not so well in 2013. The mounting losses in Free Agency, bad 2013 Draft, and key injuries were too much to overcome.
My hope with Reed is they re-sign him but move him to ILB and draft another OLB to take his place. JMO.
It's pretty complicated, cause if the TE fakes a block and heads downfield, it may be the LOLB's assignment to fall into coverage with the TE---at least until a corner can pick him up. Or, on a passing down, it may be the CB's responsibility to pick the TE up from the start (which may leave a WR open, but you should have a safety over the top) and then the LOLB will rush---perhaps being picked up by the RT, or the RT and RG, OR the RT may try to block the LB by himself with help from a RB if necessary. Or, of course, the TE AND the RT may take on the LOLB hoping to both stop the rush on a passing down, or seal the end on a run. This is when the LOLB must be able to shed the blocks and protect the edge and stop any run coming that way while keeping an eye out that no ball carrier bumps outside of him. All of this is just a small taste of what goes on, and also depends on what defense the team is running----base, nickel, dime---cause the personnel change for each and with the dime, Eg, there may only be 2 LB's on the field.
JJ lines up wherever he wants. Keeps the other side guessing, and he trusts Reed.
Bingo! And therein lies the skill, or lack thereof of a GM. Some GMs keep their players some have constant turnover---to the team's disadvantage IMO. I think Reed will be gone---a cap casualty, as with so many others above.
No, I'm saying his skill level has produced exactly what it has for us the last 4 years, and wouldn't produce any more for us if we continued to employ him. But, I also believe that the people who really know football, coaches in the NFL, see that too, and value what he can do significantly more than the skill set of a scrub picked up off of someone's practice squad. You obviously don't think so, but we'll see.
Yeah, next year we'll be talking about the hidden skills of whatever JAG we have producing the same invisible intangibles.