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Brian Gardner fired

Carr Bombed said:
The problem is that you've already been proven wrong (plenty of times).. "BoB" has had a commitment to winning since day one and I dare you to try to prove where he hasn't... I'll flash forward.. you can't. :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm late to the game, but what the hell does "BoB" even mean? You're the only person I ever see type it (Newsflash... It hasn't caught on) so you should be able to tell me... Why do you type it?

1. (since you like to number things) Is it because he's cheap? Nope it can't be that, because he's never been cheap to begin
with

2. Did he make bad hires (Only in hindsight to morons who label him "BoB").. Nope didn't do that either. He only hired the guy that led a expansion team to the NFC championship and as far as Kubkiak and his patience goes with his head coaching hires. Where is "BoB" supposed to draw the line? Is it going to happen when he keeps a coach that you don't approve of too long?

Or are you going to label the man "BoB" when he prematurely fires someone that you approved of? Which is it?

The guy's name is Bob McNair.
Click to expand...

Good to know you think I'm a moron.

Lets just say that I would've built the franchise differently and not wasted 8 yrs on Gary. Using the cap is an excuse. The truth is BoB (Who I call that because he doesn't deserve the respect to be called Mr.McNair until he puts forth the effort to put a consistent winning product on the field.

Instead of giving us the Farce that was the Kubiak era. (He still kept Rick Smith so he still hasn't cleaned house. Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil. he's great for business.) Meanwhile BoB's team is going to have the 1st pick in the draft for the 3rd time in an unfathomable 11 yrs.
 
Texian said:
Well Then......The record is crystal clear that BoB has done a terrible job in trying to hire the right people and has done an excellent job in hiring all the wrong people to run his football team.
Click to expand...

Umm.. No.

Bob hired a guy who was able to guide a team towards a NFC championship

Then he hired a OC who had a hand in winning 4 SBs.

Gee Golly, Damn it must be nice to live in the hindsight 20/20 make believe that you do. For one split second, I'd love to see how you'd run this team.. just for one split second... and no more :rolleyes:

Yep BoB has only had two coaching hires post his expansion days. but it's obvious the horse in Houston has already spit the bit.. put up your pitch forks.. lets run "BoB" out of town :fingergun:
 
steelbtexan said:
Good to know you think I'm a moron.

Lets just say that I would've built the franchise differently and not wasted 8 yrs on Gary. Using the cap is an excuse. The truth is BoB (Who I call that because he doesn't deserve the respect to be called Mr.McNair until he puts forth the effort to put a consistent winning product on the field.

Instead of giving us the Farce that was the Kubiak era. (He still kept Rick Smith so he still hasn't cleaned house. Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil. he's great for business.) Meanwhile BoB's team is going to have the 1st pick in the draft for the 3rd time in an unfathomable 11 yrs.
Click to expand...

LMAO.. What a complete farce.. That is what the farce is

Those of us who have been here long enough (and there's plenty of us) know that your original complaint, which was always your original complaint of "BoB" was that he was cheap who only cared about turning a profit (oh nevermind, you're still talking about money) and winning was never really the driving force behind the decisions he made. (Newsflash.. winning makes "BoB" more money. I know, it's crazy isn't it.. he invested in the business of winning) Now he's "BoB" because "hired the wrong guy". WTF?

If your going to bitch about the guy, at least be consistent. Bob McNair (which is his name) hired the right people, at least he felt like he did at the time, and gave those people everything they ever needed to be successful. Regardless if those people succeeded of not after given everything they ever asked for isn't on "BoB"... it's on them. Hence why "BoB" fired them.

What else do you expect from a freaking owner. Seriously.. you need to take your complaints up to Cincinnati and talk to Bengal fans. Now that's a "BoB"
 
Carr Bombed said:
LMAO.. What a complete farce.. That is what the farce is

Those of us who have been here long enough (and there's plenty of us) know that your original complaint, which was always your original complaint of "BoB" was that he was cheap who only cared about turning a profit (oh nevermind, you're still talking about money) and winning was never really the driving force behind the decisions he made. (Newsflash.. winning makes "BoB" more money. I know, it's crazy isn't it.. he invested in the business of winning) Now he's "BoB" because "hired the wrong guy". WTF?

If your going to bitch about the guy, at least be consistent. Bob McNair (which is his name) hired the right people, at least he felt like he did at the time, and gave those people everything they ever needed to be successful. Regardless if those people succeeded of not after given everything they ever asked for isn't on "BoB"... it's on them. Hence why "BoB" fired them.

What else do you expect from a freaking owner. Seriously.. you need to take your complaints up to Cincinnati and talk to Bengal fans. Now that's a "BoB"
Click to expand...

Bob has spent his money as wisely as he chooses his personnel. Sadly, that too has been more numerous bad decisions. Ed Reed is a prime example. Giving David Carr $10 million Bonus the year before he cut him is another. Ahman Greene, the Foster and Schaub contracts and I could go on and on and on.....
 
Carr Bombed said:
LMAO.. What a complete farce.. That is what the farce is

Those of us who have been here long enough (and there's plenty of us) know that your original complaint, which was always your original complaint of "BoB" was that he was cheap who only cared about turning a profit (oh nevermind, you're still talking about money) and winning was never really the driving force behind the decisions he made. (Newsflash.. winning makes "BoB" more money. I know, it's crazy isn't it.. he invested in the business of winning) Now he's "BoB" because "hired the wrong guy". WTF?

If your going to bitch about the guy, at least be consistent. Bob McNair (which is his name) hired the right people, at least he felt like he did at the time, and gave those people everything they ever needed to be successful. Regardless if those people succeeded of not after given everything they ever asked for isn't on "BoB"... it's on them. Hence why "BoB" fired them.

What else do you expect from a freaking owner. Seriously.. you need to take your complaints up to Cincinnati and talk to Bengal fans. Now that's a "BoB"
Click to expand...

My complaint with BoB WAS about the $$$$ that he made vs how he spent the $$$$$. I am beginning to change my mind after he spent 6 mill to buy out BO"B's contract.

Until Rick Smith is gone I wont be a happy camper. BoB hasn't been a good owner. He has made approx. 1.5 bil off of this investment and his team is picking 1st in the draft for the 3rd time in 11 yrs. That's the definition of profiteering. I truly question BoB's commitment to putting a winning product on the field. Hopefully BO'B can change the culture. Because I can tell you for sure RickSmith Aint gonna get it done. But he still has a job because BoB didn't want to have to pay off his contract and Rick has helped BoB m,ake a lot of $$$$. Hence the 2-14 record. $$$$ meant more than wins.

I don't expect you to agree. But I'm far from a moron. I just have a different opinion than yours.
 
Carr Bombed said:
So a guy that has made billions of dollars doesn't know how to win.. LMAO
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I get the feeling that Smith is more of a Contracts guy than a Personnel guy. Isn't that the guy you want if you're a HC and want maximum input on Personnel? I suspect the OB has more potential conflict with Bob than Rick.
 
Texian said:
Not so much in the National Football League. I believe in the scoreboard. The scoreboard says, 79-113, .411. The scoreboard doesn't lie. You can accept the reality and truth of the scoreboard or you can continue to live in denial while continuing to make excuses for all the failures. It is what it is. Besides McNair there is another 20 something Billionaires who are not very good as owners in the NFL.
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How many of those 32 NFL Franchises won Championships/Superbowls in their first 12 years of existence? I know some, but I don't think it's a large number.
 
steelbtexan said:
Good to know you think I'm a moron.

Lets just say that I would've built the franchise differently and not wasted 8 yrs on Gary. Using the cap is an excuse. The truth is BoB (Who I call that because he doesn't deserve the respect to be called Mr.McNair until he puts forth the effort to put a consistent winning product on the field.

Instead of giving us the Farce that was the Kubiak era. (He still kept Rick Smith so he still hasn't cleaned house. Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil. he's great for business.) Meanwhile BoB's team is going to have the 1st pick in the draft for the 3rd time in an unfathomable 11 yrs.
Click to expand...

Your Fired. Shame on you for not having the foresight to match your hindsight.
 
steelbtexan said:
Why because Rick has helped BoB turn a 200 mil investment into 1.5 bil.
Click to expand...

Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.
 
infantrycak said:
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.
Click to expand...

Don't be bringing facts up in here! :worldpeace:
 
infantrycak said:
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.
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Good Point. Gotta keep the ledger straight.
 
Marshall said:
Your Fired. Shame on you for not having the foresight to match your hindsight.
Click to expand...

Except I called this a long time ago. The failure that is BoB's on field product. So it's not hindsight.

Look at New England today for example, their starting CB's Dennard/Talib are jailbirds that came on the cheap and you have to operate like them if you want to compete with them.
 
infantrycak said:
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.
Click to expand...

Excuse me aprox 1 bil or so. tell you what 700 mil. you get the point.
 
Texian said:
Bob has spent his money as wisely as he chooses his personnel. Sadly, that too has been more numerous bad decisions. Ed Reed is a prime example. Giving David Carr $10 million Bonus the year before he cut him is another. Amman Greene, the Foster and Schaub contracts and I could go on and on and on.....
Click to expand...

Damn, I didn't know Bob was our G.M.


I'll give you Carr.. that's the only time where McNair carried a player. Everyone else though, he let the people he hired make their decisions and control their staff and the personnel they wanted to bring in.


Sorry, I still don't get the "BoB" crap. You want a example of a crappy owner who doesn't know what the hell he's doing and doesn't give two craps about winning .. you only have to look across the way..

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/houston-astros-owner-fans-write-check-10-million-215556552--mlb.html;_ylt=A0oG7nNYMNxSyjAA_IhXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzMmM5Z2VyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDM1Ml8x


Houston Astros' owner: Fans can ‘write a check for $10 million’ if they want a better roster

Jim Crane- "It doesn't bother me that people want us to spend more money," Crane said. "But it's not their money. This is a private company, even though it's got a public flair to it. If they want to write a check for 10 million bucks, they can give me a call."
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That's what a ****ty owner looks and sounds like, That is the real "BoB" in this city here, because that team will never contend without some Billie bean A's, Tampa bay rays, and Florida Marlins magic. That "BoB" has turned a big market team playing in a big city into a small market team. Bob McNair has done the complete opposite and has spent money on this team and this city.

Has he made money? Hell yes he has, but only because this city is a true NFL city and because the moron owner before him was brain dead and decided to pull anchor...

Is it "BoB's" fault that he was smart enough to dig on a gold mine here?

"BoB" sells tickets, makes money, and has a great PR staff (what sports owner doesn't want that and it's completely idiotic for any fan to try to blame him for that)... that's all true, but can we please cut the bull crap that "BoB" only cares about the bottom dollar over winning? That's just stupid.
 
infantrycak said:
Since you keep making an argument about making money can you at least frame it fairly. You are using personal investment v. total value of the team. McNair's share of the team is not worth $1.5 bil. Also the team has not been sold so his share in the team is unrealized and speculative.
Click to expand...


Very true. My house is "worth" $100k more than I bought it for, but that doesn't mean jack until I sell it for $100k and have that amount in my bank account.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
O'Brien comes from the Bill Belichick family tree at the pro level, which is a model set up for the head coach to have extreme authority and many believe that O'Brien will eventually bring in a personnel man closely aligned with him.
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Logical speculation based on fact. This will get interesting.
 
OzzO said:
So Kubiak brings in his GM. O'B (possibly) brings in his GM.... seems backwards.

But hey, if it works the 2nd time around
Click to expand...

Casserly was gonna be fired anyway. The way things transpired, I'm not so sure that it was Kubiak that bought Smith in as it was McNair in love with the Denver product.

It's only logical to think that the HC and GM should have a good working relationship. Any good corporation has to work as a team at the highest levels for teamwork to be natural at the lower levels.
 
Bobby Grier should have been sent packing too. I have never been a fan. Of course, I want Rick Smith fired as well. That goes without saying.
 
ObsiWan said:
My money says Belichick had control BEFORE he won any of his Super Bowls.

Is Belichick not a disciple of Parcells? Yes.

And think back, what was Parcells' mantra:
"If you want me to cook the meal you got to let me shop for the groceries."

I feel Belichick would not be any different.
/discussion
Click to expand...

Belichick is a different beast. First, he did not have full control in his firts HC gig.... Cleveland.

Second, he was not new to the Patriots. He was being groomed by Parcells. He was with the Patriots before he went to Cleveland, & he went back to the Patriots after he failed.

So when Belichick tells Kraft, "I want final say on the 53." Kraft wasn't, "who do you think you are??!!" he was like.... "I know this guy, worked with him for years... he worked with Parcells for years, I believe he can handle it."
 
thunderkyss said:
Belichick is a different beast. First, he did not have full control in his firts HC gig.... Cleveland.

Second, he was not new to the Patriots. He was being groomed by Parcells. He was with the Patriots before he went to Cleveland, & he went back to the Patriots after he failed.

So when Belichick tells Kraft, "I want final say on the 53." Kraft wasn't, "who do you think you are??!!" he was like.... "I know this guy, worked with him for years... he worked with Parcells for years, I believe he can handle it."
Click to expand...

This is technically true (well, actually since you used "years" instead of "year" it's not), but may be a bit overstated. Belichick was on the Patriots staff for one year - Parcells last, and the first year they went to the Super Bowl. After that it was off to the Jets with Parcells.

I've always considered the Belichick hiring by the Pats as being driven as much by the desire to screw the Jets as it was to bring in the best HC available. However, since they clearly did both things, it goes down as a legendary hire.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Damn, I didn't know Bob was our G.M.


I'll give you Carr.. that's the only time where McNair carried a player. Everyone else though, he let the people he hired make their decisions and control their staff and the personnel they wanted to bring in.


Sorry, I still don't get the "BoB" crap. You want a example of a crappy owner who doesn't know what the hell he's doing and doesn't give two craps about winning .. you only have to look across the way..

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/houston-astros-owner-fans-write-check-10-million-215556552--mlb.html;_ylt=A0oG7nNYMNxSyjAA_IhXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzMmM5Z2VyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDM1Ml8x


Houston Astros' owner: Fans can ‘write a check for $10 million’ if they want a better roster



That's what a ****ty owner looks and sounds like, That is the real "BoB" in this city here, because that team will never contend without some Billie bean A's, Tampa bay rays, and Florida Marlins magic. That "BoB" has turned a big market team playing in a big city into a small market team. Bob McNair has done the complete opposite and has spent money on this team and this city.

Has he made money? Hell yes he has, but only because this city is a true NFL city and because the moron owner before him was brain dead and decided to pull anchor...

Is it "BoB's" fault that he was smart enough to dig on a gold mine here?

"BoB" sells tickets, makes money, and has a great PR staff (what sports owner doesn't want that and it's completely idiotic for any fan to try to blame him for that)... that's all true, but can we please cut the bull crap that "BoB" only cares about the bottom dollar over winning? That's just stupid.
Click to expand...

BoB sets the bar for the types of players HE wants on his team. The Texans will never win a SB under the current constraints BoB puts on HIS team.

Like Texan Bill told me a long time ago. This is BoB's team and he will build it in the image he wants. Not the one that I want, you know a winning one.

So tell me this is BoB a brilliant businessman and a complete (Using your word) moron when it comes to the on the field product. Or does the on the field product always come 2nd for BoB. Before you answer that, remember that BoB said he looked at Bud as a mentor, and considered him to be a great friend. He said this on Channel 13 after Bud's funeral. This IS the type of owner the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS have.
 
steelbtexan said:
BoB sets the bar for the types of players HE wants on his team. The Texans will never win a SB under the current constraints BoB puts on HIS team.

Like Texan Bill told me a long time ago. This is BoB's team and he will build it in the image he wants. Not the one that I want, you know a winning one.

So tell me this is BoB a brilliant businessman and a complete (Using your word) moron when it comes to the on the field product. Or does the on the field product always come 2nd for BoB. Before you answer that, remember that BoB said he looked at Bud as a mentor, and considered him to be a great friend. He said this on Channel 13 after Bud's funeral. This IS the type of owner the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS have.
Click to expand...

I keep hearing that Bob won't win because he won't hire thugs and goons. I disagree with the premise.

ps Anakin was a great guy before he became the Evil Darth Vader too. I think this is a good analogy for Bud.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Yeah I know, he's also our head coach too.

He's the entire reason why we suck ass. freaking BoB!
Click to expand...

He's the owner of the team and that responsibility falls on him. He doesn't want to do anything too traumatic.

So to answer your question, YES he's the entire reason. He sets policy and hires incompetent people to run his on field product. And when the team bottoms out every 4-8 yrs he wont entirely clean up his mess.

See: Smith, Rick/Greir, Bobby for example.
 
Marshall said:
I keep hearing that Bob won't win because he won't hire thugs and goons. I disagree with the premise.

ps Anakin was a great guy before he became the Evil Darth Vader too. I think this is a good analogy for Bud.
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New England/San Fran/Seattle and to a lesser extent Denver would disagree with you. Although Denver appears to have a problem with its front office personnel drinking and driving.
 
ChampionTexan said:
This is technically true (well, actually since you used "years" instead of "year" it's not), but may be a bit overstated. Belichick was on the Patriots staff for one year - Parcells last, and the first year they went to the Super Bowl. After that it was off to the Jets with Parcells.

I've always considered the Belichick hiring by the Pats as being driven as much by the desire to screw the Jets as it was to bring in the best HC available. However, since they clearly did both things, it goes down as a legendary hire.
Click to expand...

A man that gets it.
 
steelbtexan said:
So it's like a savings account that you get an unbelievable interest rate on?
Click to expand...

Marshall said:
Or is it like the 401K and retirement you had with Enron?
Click to expand...

steelbtexan said:
Comparing the NFL to Enron = LOL

Talk about a stretch. SMH
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No, Marshall nailed it. The bank is obligated to pay interest on your savings account and give you the money on demand AND barring misconduct the value is steady or increases. Those are not true for an investment in an NFL team. Stocks however may appear to have gained value in the market but until there is a sale (for which there has to be a buyer) any gain is purely theoretical AND the perceived value could disappear tomorrow.
 
infantrycak said:
No, Marshall nailed it. The bank is obligated to pay interest on your savings account and give you the money on demand AND barring misconduct the value is steady or increases. Those are not true for an investment in an NFL team. Stocks however may appear to have gained value in the market but until there is a sale (for which there has to be a buyer) any gain is purely theoretical AND the perceived value could disappear tomorrow.
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Theoretically this is true.

However do you really believe this when it comes to the NFL?
 
You'd think with the experts on this board, some of them would have jobs with actual NFL teams.

I hear they are hiring on Kirby Drive... :hmmm:
 
infantrycak said:
No, Marshall nailed it. The bank is obligated to pay interest on your savings account and give you the money on demand AND barring misconduct the value is steady or increases. Those are not true for an investment in an NFL team. Stocks however may appear to have gained value in the market but until there is a sale (for which there has to be a buyer) any gain is purely theoretical AND the perceived value could disappear tomorrow.
Click to expand...

This is getting wildly off topic, but this isn't accurate at least in the UK, and since US law is very much derived from Common Law it would likely apply here if ever tested. The EU agreed new rules on 12/11/13 for bank bailouts or "bail-ins" as well.

The law has been in existence for hundreds of years and was established in England by the House of Lords in the case Foley v Hill in 1848.

The money placed in the custody of the banker is, to all intent and purposes, the money of the banker, to do with it as he pleases; he is guilty of no breach of trust in employing it; he is not answerable TO THE PRINCIPAL IF HE PUTS IT INTO JEOPARDY, IF HE ENGAGES IN A HAZARDOUS SPECULATION; he is not bound to keep it or deal with it as the property of the principal, but he is of course answerable for the amount, because he has contracted, having received that money, to repay to the principal, when demanded, a sum equivalent to that paid into his hands.” (quoted in UK Law Essays, #3b4d81;">Relationship Between A Banker And Customer,That Of A Creditor/Debtor, emphasis added,)"

For a more recent example see the Cyprus Bail-in in which accounts were raided by the bank when the debt went bad. The financial system and national governments are trying to end the taxpayer bailout(s) and instead the depositors will take the hit.


http://dzswc0o8s13dx.cloudfront.net/goldcore_bloomberg_chart1_03-12-13.png

TL;DR -- All your money are belong to us.
 
QuantumMortis said:
This is getting wildly off topic, but this isn't accurate at least in the UK, and since US law is very much derived from Common Law it would likely apply here if ever tested.
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For the points I was making, it is true here or there. From your quote:

but he is of course answerable for the amount, because he has contracted, having received that money, to repay to the principal, when demanded, a sum equivalent to that paid into his hands.
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Everyone understands the bank can invest the money but that is irrelevant. They are liable for the deposits and any contract interest.
 
infantrycak said:
Everyone understands the bank can invest the money but that is irrelevant. They are liable for the deposits and any contract interest.
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It's not irrelevant. Can a banker be prosecuted according to the quoted text for not repaying his liabilities? Who's money is it when a deposit is made?
 
QuantumMortis said:
It's not irrelevant. Can a banker be prosecuted according to the quoted text for not repaying his liabilities? Who's money is it when a deposit is made?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter for the point aka irrelevant. There is a legal repayment obligation. The same can not be said for an investment like a team.
 
QuantumMortis said:
This is getting wildly off topic, but this isn't accurate at least in the UK, and since US law is very much derived from Common Law it would likely apply here if ever tested. The EU agreed new rules on 12/11/13 for bank bailouts or "bail-ins" as well.

The law has been in existence for hundreds of years and was established in England by the House of Lords in the case Foley v Hill in 1848.

The money placed in the custody of the banker is, to all intent and purposes, the money of the banker, to do with it as he pleases; he is guilty of no breach of trust in employing it; he is not answerable TO THE PRINCIPAL IF HE PUTS IT INTO JEOPARDY, IF HE ENGAGES IN A HAZARDOUS SPECULATION; he is not bound to keep it or deal with it as the property of the principal, but he is of course answerable for the amount, because he has contracted, having received that money, to repay to the principal, when demanded, a sum equivalent to that paid into his hands.” (quoted in UK Law Essays, #3b4d81;">Relationship Between A Banker And Customer,That Of A Creditor/Debtor, emphasis added,)"

For a more recent example see the Cyprus Bail-in in which accounts were raided by the bank when the debt went bad. The financial system and national governments are trying to end the taxpayer bailout(s) and instead the depositors will take the hit.


http://dzswc0o8s13dx.cloudfront.net/goldcore_bloomberg_chart1_03-12-13.png

TL;DR -- All your money are belong to us.
Click to expand...

US Banking laws are different. There IS a fiduciary responsibility by the Banking side of the Financial institutions including the investment side. That's why many of the banking violations involve mixing client investment dollars with bank capital which was put at risk and violating this fiduciary responsibility.
 
steelbtexan said:
Until Rick Smith is gone I wont be a happy camper.
Click to expand...

I get it.... but,

steelbtexan said:
But he still has a job because BoB didn't want to have to pay off his contract...
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We don't know why Rick still has a job, but I really doubt it's because McNair doesn't want to pay off his contract. Maybe he's reached out to his preferred replacement, but that guy has commitments he chooses to fulfill......

I'm still not convinced Rick is safe, he's probably going to be gone before the season starts.
 
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