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Brian Gaine Fired
- Thread starter Speedy
- Start date
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You see alot of these fails in execution in the Texans v Colts game. Plays were there to be made, the execution wasn't.
1st drive of the Texans, 1st & 10 play action, DW4 has plenty of time coming off the fake, he has Nuk down the middle in a 1 on 1, safety out of position, DW4 severely underthrows Nuk. How is that a failure of the playcaller when you have exactly what you want..which is the best WR in the game 1 vs 1 & a 1/2 step on the cb? Convert that pass & the game turns on its face.
2nd drive the int...DW4 wasn't under pressure or anything but he throws the pick..basically b/c he got fooled & DW4's reaction afterwards lets everyone know, that was on him. He pre-determined where he was going with the ball & had he truly scanned the field, he had Akins streaking down the seam pretty much by himself. the guy who intercepted it, came off Akins & there was literally no safety in the middle of the field to the inside of him, only the cb on the backside & he was out of position. if DW4 holds the ball for just a split second longer, scans the field & finds him, that's a TD no question. Again, how is that on the playcaller?
You guys are acting like the Colts had every WR covered up every pass play & that's far from the truth.
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Players need to excecute, yes.
But the job of the OC is to make life easier for his QB and receivers.
The defense gets paid, too.
Those players aren't going to lay down and die.
When the defense looks like they wake up out of the wrong side of the bed, that's when you know the OC is doing his job.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
on a 3 yd route? That's innovation? running pick & rub routes? Lol. Ok. There's plenty of plays guys were wide open for the Texans..if you care to look. The missed TD throw by DW4 to Nuk for example. Nuk's open, but not for long ....Margus Hunt is standing in his throwing lane & it closed up pretty fast, but he still had a little room to hit him. But even if he didn't want to hit him, he had Griffin coming off a short curl Wide open. & for a 4th & 1, he could've checked it down & went there.
OB seems to make it more difficult for his players. Yes there are still plays to be made but it's a losing formula
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I agree..but you can't expect every playcall on offense for guys to just be running by themselves either. As you said, the defense gets paid too & even if you are lucky to have a few drives where the defense looks like the woke up on the wrong side of the bed, eventually they do wake up. Then, its all about execution. The Texans v Colts playoff game...... That just wasn't the case.
We'd just seen them a few weeks prior & it was our 3rd game against them..they knew us & we knew them. & on offense it wasn't the case of guys on defense not knowing what was coming, it was a case of them having the match up advantage. I mean for christ sakes TY Hilton was damn near triple teamed for the fist drive of that game & he still made J-Jo & the secondary look like fools..................3 straight catches for 50 something yards out the gate.
As far as our offense...The opportunites were there. There were definitely plays that should've been made & the playcalling had little to do with it. It was mostly the execution that failed them & that falls on the players mostly.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Much like discussions these days on this MB. I don't know about anybody else but its gotten to the point where I can just look at who posted last in any thread and have a pretty good idea about what they are going to say. Now I know how Bill Murray felt in Groundhog Day.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
So he's supposed to not go to his best offensive weapon? TY had a bum shoulder & calf...Reich went to him 3 straight times on the 1st drive. But I bet you & others think he's a genius offensive mind for doing this though huh?
I knew you were going to say that
There's something that you don't want to recognize on the INT.
The Colts rushed only 3.
They dropped 8 to cover.
They can afford to bait the QB into an INT.
Even if they give up an intermediate pass.
That's called a cat and mouse game.
It was 4 and 4.
They made it look like Watson can complete a quick pass to his TE for a first down.
You've got to prepare your QB for those sort of trickery.
It was like a little mouse walking right into the trap.
Or maybe because the Chiefs had Hunt/Williams/Hill/Kelce. All of whom aren't Texans Worthy.
Or maybe because the Chiefs had Hunt/Williams/Hill/Kelce. All of whom aren't Texans Worthy.
Like I said upthread, there were plays to be made, Watson didn't make them
Hmmmm, NO.
TK, you never know where he's going with it, LOL.
At one point, I had compared him with Henry Kissinger.
You really need to separate the two.
Players' executions and the play calling.
Watson didn't make some plays, but he also made some.
If you keep saying these things, how the hella can you justify the Kubiak firing?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I agree, But there's an assumption that you're making here...
1.) that BoB hasn't/didn't prepare DW4 for that...
2.) that DW4 hasn't seen that type of coverage before...
both assumptions are highly unlikely & I can pretty much guarantee that he's seen some type of defensive disguise like that. Nevertheless, for him to progress to the next level, he's going to have to learn to read those situations better.
He got fooled, it happens to the best of them.
Not near enough. Watson was bad that game.
I consider both BOB/Kubiak to be avg HC's. Difference is Kubiak brought in RS and called the shots. BOB was saddled with RS for give yrs.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Just b/c he made some, doesn't excuse his fails on other ones. That goes for everyone.
Kubiak was fired b/c he'd had 8 years & the team finally quit on him in 2014.
I think it's you guys that need to learn how to separate the 2. 11 guys with 11 assignments. Any one of those guys missing their assignments can render a great playcall look bad & we've seen that in some of the biggest games in this league.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Exactly and it is not limited to sports but includes all forums. Once the back and forth is down to "well on this play it was so and so's guy to block" or "ran route four inches short" and well our guy is no {fill in blank} to their guy..player, coach, GM, scouts, owner, etc I tune out and find something else to do. Most of us have our own foundational opinions that will not be changed by "nuh uh" or "did so".
22 games in & O'Brien doesn't know his QB... how to help him, settle him in' get him into a rhythm. Nope. Watson has to figure it all out on his own.
That's not to say Watson is completely blameless in this. You're right, he should shoulder some of the blame. & yes, BO'b was in a tough predicament. Still he did not help Watson as best he could/should
Hey now... lay off my boy JC.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Lol exactly Thunderkyss.
Mangler
Toro de España
Couldn’t agree more, but Watson will do what he has to do. The boy is a winner and won’t settle for field goals. Competitive to a fault, to bad he doesn’t have a good head coach.
Watson doesn't think this.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Exactly. It’s funny how these guys know what BoB is and isn’t doing with DW4 even when DW4 is telling them.
That's kinda like saying Osweiler was forced on BO'b even though BO'b clearly states multiple times that he picked Osweiler.
smh
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Kinda, but it’s just 1 way in your scenario. In mine both guys are speaking talking about what’s being coached, how to look at certain things etc..
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Let's be fair here. Nuk has the worst separation skills for being one of the top 5 receivers in the game, with the YAC to prove it. Conversely, he is the best contested-catch WR in the game today and thrives in that space. This has been his game in the NFL, barring his rookie season when AJ was still WR1.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Some folks surely knows how to cherry pick their arguments. Always throwing stones and then hiding their hands. Or better yet their OPINIONS are facts verses everyone else's opinions.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
You clearly missed 76 point. Another member mentioned how TY was hurt as well and how his coach didn't really put him in harm's way. (Paraphrasing)
And clearly states he coaches who's given him.
Better calls were there to be made and didn't get made. What more could Watson do?
The adage of "putting your players in a position to win" was executed better by the opposing coaching staff. That's a pretty fair assessment.
It's never as simple as "well, if my players executed perfectly, we'd have won". It's more akin to "if my players aren't executing these plays, let's find something they're more comfortable with" to get them in a rhythm. Sure, it's possible that we lose to the red-hot Luck and company anyway. We just might not look as woefully unprepared as we did.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
And you clearly missed Sandman's point. Ty was burning his defenders, there's no harm to be put in when you can make the guy suppose to be covering you look like Willi E Coyote chasing Road Runner. Nuk can't burn his defenders and always has to win his match ups because if he doesn't then he isn't catching anything. Doesn't matter who is calling the plays or what the play is. His greatest strength is he almost always wins his match up but its a strength born of necessity because if he didn't he would be one of the worst WR in the NFL. The real question we should be asking is why is it the Texans are the only team against whom Ty Hilton looks like a first round HoFer? Against everyone else he is good, against us he is unstoppable.
He called the perfect play on the slant to Hopkins that should have been a TD but Watson was late with the throw. There were many more reads where guys were open that Watson. missed. He will get better with more experience, but BOB can only call the plays he can't make the reads for Watson.
michaelm
vox nihili
I knew you were going to say that lol
*edited* to acknowledge that TheKDog already beat me to the punch posting what I posted above, verbatim.
Watson can't call plays underneath of a soft Cover-2 instead of forcing us over the top of the coverage. Hopefully BoB will get better with experience.
I'm under no illusions that Watson played anywhere near his best game. If you're under the impression that BoB was as creative as he needed to be (or even brought HIS "A" game), we don't have a starting point for the discussion.
Texansballer74
The Marine
And you missed it too. The point was both receivers were hurt. They used a lot of rub routes to get TY free. Big difference.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
If you want to keep harping on this players were hurt thing then you are way over simplifying the issue. The biggest difference was in the players themselves. Nuk does not get free of defenders, he never has and most likely never will, its not his strength and not what he does. I'll go on record now and say there is no OC in the NFL that could have called plays to get Nuk free. It is the primary reason we drafted Fuller, to have a deep threat to force defenses to stop double covering Nuk because he can't get free. Ty, on the other hand, can not only get away from defenders but he was so mismatched it wasn't even funny. Its easy to call plays to get a WR free when they are making their defenders look like an amateurs.
Porky
Hall of Fame
It must be really hard to defend BOB. Like I remember in debate - you sometimes got stuck debating in the affirmative for something you knew was trash. But it made you a better debater. So...for all of the BOB supporters, I'll give you credit for somehow finding a way to defend one of the worst HC's in the NFL.
Coutee caught 10-11 balls on routes that you're describing. How many more underneath throws do you want?
The worst coaches don't win 11 games with that ol and injuries.
Lots of learning needed all around
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Here's what annoying the hell out of me, to some on here anyone that isn't calling for his head and trying to look at all points, good and the bad, is automatically labeled a supporter. To many on here have bought into this idea of "If we just get a new HC we are SB bound" yeah how well did that work when we replaced Kubiak? The Texans have lots of issues, just like every other team, and there is no sure fire formula for winning a SB outside of "Have Tom Brady as your QB".
O'Brien is not one of the worst HC in the NFL, not even close. I don't like his job as OC but if we are going to claim that he is one of the worse HCs then so is Andy Reid because prior to 2018 his record was just as bad in KC with a much better QB. People on here DO NOT DEBATE, they hit all their talking points and disregard anything that does not fit their narrative and yes that's true on both sides.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Revisionist history as usual with you guys. Rub routes are designed to get you the ball early & TY's 1st 3 receptions, he didn't catch anything off a designed rub route like that. He simply beat J.Jo on the curl for his 1st catch, He ended up running all the way across the field through multiple zones & bailed luck out for his 2nd catch...a catch he wasn't even the 1st or 2nd read for. & then He just flat out beat Mckinney on a semi post/fly route for his 3rd catch.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
What is it that people have been saying for 2 damn decades about the Patriots & why they're so good? They simply don't beat themselves. That essentially means they are more consistent in their execution in all phases, regardless of the play being called.
All that trickery, motion & "creativity" is secondary. Execution beats creativity everyday of the week & twice on sundays.
No you don't need perfect execution, but of all the places you most need it at, you need it at qb & its why this game is so qb-centric & why folks tend to grade everything about a team based on the qb play.
All that trickery, motion & "creativity" is secondary. Execution beats creativity everyday of the week & twice on sundays.
No you don't need perfect execution, but of all the places you most need it at, you need it at qb & its why this game is so qb-centric & why folks tend to grade everything about a team based on the qb play.
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sandman
Brexit Advisor
Not really. He had three of his five receptions on the first drive of the game that resulted in a TD.
1. 12-yard reception for 1st down - ran untouched up the field with no rub (defenders were playing man coverage way off the LOS) and curled back at the first down marker
2. 10-yard reception for 1st down - busted play with Luck scrambling, found TY going out of bounds in traffic
3. 38-yard reception for 1st and Goal - TY had a delayed release from the slot, LOS defender passed him off to next level defender with barely a nudge and he was running alone in the middle of the field with defenders catching up to him at the point of reception.
His only other reception in the first half:
4. 2-yard reception for 1st down - 3 WR bunched on right side, three defenders close to LOS. No rubs, just good movement by all 3 WR's pushed defenders up field then he just turns around and sits on 1st down marker, no defender anywhere close to him.
There is absolutely no way that you can say any of these catches were schemed as rubs, much less based on him being injured.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Our secondary was so deftly afraid of their speed that everything was open for the colts underneath. But even when they did take their shots deep, they were still wide open. TY 1st drive...late in the 2nd K-jax got burned for another in which he had to PI Inman to stop it from being another deep completion.
They had the match up advantage outside against our 2ndary & they knew it.
They had the match up advantage outside against our 2ndary & they knew it.
Quoted for truth.
This team will go as far as Watson can take them. It's sad that after the beating he took last yr that the Texans org didn't do everything to protect him as well as they possibly could. Who knows (Doubtful) maybe they trade for Trent Williams if he holds out of Redskins camp.