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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
On a serious note. I wonder what the psychological impact the last playoff meltdown has on the players being we made no changes on coaching
John Pagano has been fired. RAC will retire after the playoffs, and maybe after today
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Former Texans coaches in general, not just under OB. I should have specified. Vrabel, Shanahan, Lafleur. At least one of these three is going to the Super Bowl within their first two years of being a head coach.
Vrabel was gifted Henry and lucked into Tannehill. And he is a defensive coach that is not married to a offensive system. I agree with you... the others run MUCH BETTER SYSTEM IMO
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I mean, he finished 7th in QBR this year even with ugly games against Baltimore and a couple others.
He threw for 300 and three TDs with 0 INT’s against the chiefs on the road. He led a huge comeback against a top 5 bills defense, and the intangibles. Give him time, he’s everything you want in a QB. I’m still taking him over every QB coming out this year. Every game fuller was out our offense struggled. We need a consistent downfield threat and better coaching/play calling. Deshauns a unanimous lock as a top 10 QB around the league and he hasn’t even had a coach unlock him yet. His potential is through the roof..

I honestly don’t know what you expect to get that’s better. Cause in the NFL today you have maybe 4 or 5 guys that are better right now and it may not even be that many. In my eyes there isn’t. He’s top 3 next year for me.

I get the whole Blame the QB when things go wrong game but I think this is flat out silly. Not to mention you can trade Deshaun and go and get burrow. But joe burrow doesn’t come with joe Brady and the huge level of talent that was surrounded by him in college. It would not surprise me in the least if he isn’t all he’s cracked up to be.

Trading Deshaun Watson is Russian roulette and you’re risking 1000 to win 10 by trading him hoping for better play from the position
You havta much higher opinion of DW4'S potential than I do. The quicker you move on from a mistake the better. ( Kind of like divorce) You made a gambling analogy, I see it as sitting at a blackjack tabltand while you go through hot streaks you sit there until you lose all of your money. So what have you really done? Wasted your time and money. But hey, at least you got free drinks.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
You havta much higher opinion of DW4'S potential than I do. The quicker you move on from a mistake the better. ( Kind of like divorce) You made a gambling analogy, I see it as sitting at a blackjack tabltand while you go through hot streaks you sit there until you lose all of your money. So what have you really done? Wasted your time and money. But hey, at least you got free drinks.
Do you really think Watson is not worth further development?
 

KA4Texan

Weirdo Mode Engaged
Contributor's Club
You havta much higher opinion of DW4'S potential than I do. The quicker you move on from a mistake the better. ( Kind of like divorce) You made a gambling analogy, I see it as sitting at a blackjack tabltand while you go through hot streaks you sit there until you lose all of your money. So what have you really done? Wasted your time and money. But hey, at least you got free drinks.
Okay, so if it is better to move on from a mistake sooner rather than later, why is it that you gave OB til year 16 of a 3 year rebuild, but wont give DW the chance to at least see a single year of a rebuild under a new HC?

We have wasted far more resources and time on OB than we can even pretend to have spent on DW.

Does DW need to grow? Absolutely, but why do you extend an endless number of years for growth at the HC position, but severly limit the number of years for growth by tge best QB we have had?

Is DW going to be in the HOF? Maybe, maybe not... but EVEN IF you let him go..... what else do you have to work with? The "genius" that has been stuck in "year 2 of a 3 year rebuild" longer than my 70 year old mother has been "35" gave away valuable draft picks.

DW has shown everyone AT LEAST as much potential as OB has (far more in my opinion) that he deserves time to grow with the right personnel. Why for one, but not the other?
 

KA4Texan

Weirdo Mode Engaged
Contributor's Club
It's not that steelbtexan gave O'Brien a long rope. He's starting from the position that he knows O'Brien isn't going anywhere.
Well, maybe I am wrong, but Ive always taken most of his posts to be in defense of OB and if my view is skewed than I am sorry for thinking incorrectly about the man's position. I have nothing against anyone here, not even if I whole heartedly disagree.

However IF I did correctly gauge his stance in the past that OB needs more time. Even IF he is now recognizing the mistake that IS OB, you don't correct a mistake by having a knee jerk reaction causing another mistake.

Did we give OB far too long? Yes, thats a mistake. Is keeping DW around another 3 years a mistake? Maybe..... but what if under a new HC he DOES live up to that potential... wouldnt you kick yourself harder if you never even gave the man the opportunity to be lead by a different coach to at least give the man a fair chance to learn from someone other than the same stubborn guy that was given all authority?

As it's said, "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link" what happens when that weak link is responsible for holding all the most important things.

You dont blame the link beside it cause maybe it too must be weak. Truth is, you cant even begin to test the strength or weakness of the link beside it until that weak link is removed.

To make my long babblings short, you dont remove Watson until you can test him properly and know he is incapable of growth, not just assume under one teacher HE is the failure.
 
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281Texan

Waterboy
You havta much higher opinion of DW4'S potential than I do. The quicker you move on from a mistake the better. ( Kind of like divorce) You made a gambling analogy, I see it as sitting at a blackjack tabltand while you go through hot streaks you sit there until you lose all of your money. So what have you really done? Wasted your time and money. But hey, at least you got free drinks.
So I’m gonna use your blackjack analogy. You have 20 on the dealer with Deshaun. You try getting rid of him is like you hitting again hoping for an ace.

Deshaun has Russell Wilson potential. He has the smarts mobility and the escapability as well as the arm. I mean would you rather have Deshaun or darnold or daniel Jones? I think the answer is simple out of the 3 and that’s the risk you run if you trade him. Even if you get the first pick and have a “can’t miss” prospect you’re not even guaranteed he’s going to be better than Deshaun.

deshaun also is a damn good QB imo and easily the best to put on a Houston Jersey. He just needs the right coaching and opportunity to succeed
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So I’m gonna use your blackjack analogy. You have 20 on the dealer with Deshaun. You try getting rid of him is like you hitting again hoping for an ace.

Deshaun has Russell Wilson potential. He has the smarts mobility and the escapability as well as the arm. I mean would you rather have Deshaun or darnold or daniel Jones? I think the answer is simple out of the 3 and that’s the risk you run if you trade him. Even if you get the first pick and have a “can’t miss” prospect you’re not even guaranteed he’s going to be better than Deshaun.

deshaun also is a damn good QB imo and easily the best to put on a Houston Jersey. He just needs the right coaching and opportunity to succeed
I consider DW4 to be sitting in on 16 in the blackjack scenario.

I would rather have Jones because I feel that I know who DW4 is after almost 3 years.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Okay, so if it is better to move on from a mistake sooner rather than later, why is it that you gave OB til year 16 of a 3 year rebuild, but wont give DW the chance to at least see a single year of a rebuild under a new HC?

We have wasted far more resources and time on OB than we can even pretend to have spent on DW.

Does DW need to grow? Absolutely, but why do you extend an endless number of years for growth at the HC position, but severly limit the number of years for growth by tge best QB we have had?

Is DW going to be in the HOF? Maybe, maybe not... but EVEN IF you let him go..... what else do you have to work with? The "genius" that has been stuck in "year 2 of a 3 year rebuild" longer than my 70 year old mother has been "35" gave away valuable draft picks.

DW has shown everyone AT LEAST as much potential as OB has (far more in my opinion) that he deserves time to grow with the right personnel. Why for one, but not the other?
You're talking about 2 different subjects. I thought it would take 3 years to recover from the RS years.

After 51-7 I want to clean house.
You already know my thoughts on DW4 and it's time to move on

I get that DW'S the best QB this franchise has ever had but he's not good enough for parades in H- Town..

Meanwhile Mahomes is going to a SB. He's got the ahu*, we're having to go through this all because an inept RS wasn't willing to give up a 3rd Rd pick and the Texans are going to be chasing that decision for the next decade regardless of who the HC is Mahomes is that special.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Do you really think Watson is not worth further development?
Nope and I don't care who the HC is.

DW4 will have to change things he's done his whole life. Do you actually think that's going to happen, I don't, is it possible yes, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well, maybe I am wrong, but Ive always taken most of his posts to be in defense of OB and if my view is skewed than I am sorry for thinking incorrectly about the man's position. I have nothing against anyone here, not even if I whole heartedly disagree.

However IF I did correctly gauge his stance in the past that OB needs more time. Even IF he is now recognizing the mistake that IS OB, you don't correct a mistake by having a knee jerk reaction causing another mistake.

Did we give OB far too long? Yes, thats a mistake. Is keeping DW around another 3 years a mistake? Maybe..... but what if under a new HC he DOES live up to that potential... wouldnt you kick yourself harder if you never even gave the man the opportunity to be lead by a different coach to at least give the man a fair chance to learn from someone other than the same stubborn guy that was given all authority?

As it's said, "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link" what happens when that weak link is responsible for holding all the most important things.

You dont blame the link beside it cause maybe it too must be weak. Truth is, you cant even begin to test the strength or weakness of the link beside it until that weak link is removed.

To make my long babblings short, you dont remove Watson until you can test him properly and know he is incapable of growth, not just assume under one teacher HE is the failure.
This comes down to if you think DW4 can win a championship or not.

I don't think he can.

I would like to thank TK for telling the truth when it comes to my thoughts.
 
So I’m gonna use your blackjack analogy. You have 20 on the dealer with Deshaun. You try getting rid of him is like you hitting again hoping for an ace.

Deshaun has Russell Wilson potential. He has the smarts mobility and the escapability as well as the arm. I mean would you rather have Deshaun or darnold or daniel Jones? I think the answer is simple out of the 3 and that’s the risk you run if you trade him. Even if you get the first pick and have a “can’t miss” prospect you’re not even guaranteed he’s going to be better than Deshaun.

deshaun also is a damn good QB imo and easily the best to put on a Houston Jersey. He just needs the right coaching and opportunity to succeed
Being really generous saying he's a 20. You are basically saying he is one small level below perfect and he's not even close to that. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good QB, maybe a great one, but he is not the sure fire winner you are saying he is. A QB like that wouldn't need more development.

I consider DW4 to be sitting in on 16 in the blackjack scenario.

I would rather have Jones because I feel that I know who DW4 is after almost 3 years.
I would say more like sitting on a 17 but the dealer is showing an Ace. You know he doesn't have a blackjack either because it would already be over but odds are in his favor that he can pull a winning card if you stay on 17. Trouble is if you hit again odds are you completely bust. Much as I hate to say it we are in the same situation Dallas is in that we think we have the winning hand at QB but we don't know because he's been both a rising and falling star at different times.

If there was one big argument for hiring a new HC that I 100% agree with and can't argue against its that we would finally see what we really have at QB before we pay him 35+ a year. Much as it pains me I think I envy Dallas, they're actually going to get to see what kind of QB they have in Dak and find out was it Garret or is it Dak that's the problem.
 

TripleTap

Dead Wood
Nope and I don't care who the HC is.

DW4 will have to change things he's done his whole life. Do you actually think that's going to happen, I don't, is it possible yes, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I’m inclined to wonder about Watson and would like to read a detailed argument against keeping him.
 

281Texan

Waterboy
Being really generous saying he's a 20. You are basically saying he is one small level below perfect and he's not even close to that. Don't get me wrong I think he's a good QB, maybe a great one, but he is not the sure fire winner you are saying he is. A QB like that wouldn't need more development.



I would say more like sitting on a 17 but the dealer is showing an Ace. You know he doesn't have a blackjack either because it would already be over but odds are in his favor that he can pull a winning card if you stay on 17. Trouble is if you hit again odds are you completely bust. Much as I hate to say it we are in the same situation Dallas is in that we think we have the winning hand at QB but we don't know because he's been both a rising and falling star at different times.

If there was one big argument for hiring a new HC that I 100% agree with and can't argue against its that we would finally see what we really have at QB before we pay him 35+ a year. Much as it pains me I think I envy Dallas, they're actually going to get to see what kind of QB they have in Dak and find out was it Garret or is it Dak that's the problem.
I think Deshaun is completely different from Dak. Look at the offensive line, the weapons he’s had, the OC This year and the RB. Then compare that to Deshauns first 3 years. There’s no comparison. Dak is an above average QB but not much more. Same level as cousins, Tannehill, Carr, etc.

Deshauns ceiling imo is some kind of Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers mix. And I’ll take that all day. Just need to get OB out of town and bring in a coach to unlock him
 

281Texan

Waterboy
I consider DW4 to be sitting in on 16 in the blackjack scenario.

I would rather have Jones because I feel that I know who DW4 is after almost 3 years.
See I just simply can’t get behind jones. I don’t look at him and say yeah he has all the tools to win a championship. I see that in Deshaun. We can agree to disagree.

At the end of the day if we can keep Deshaun upright, get him the weapons most other quality QB’s have, (which we do, when fullers healthy) and most importantly, coaching, I have zero doubt in the fact that we win a championship with him. But it will not be with OBozo at the helm. He brings nothing of value. Just wants to be a dictator
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
See I just simply can’t get behind jones. I don’t look at him and say yeah he has all the tools to win a championship. I see that in Deshaun. We can agree to disagree.

At the end of the day if we can keep Deshaun upright, get him the weapons most other quality QB’s have, (which we do, when fullers healthy) and most importantly, coaching, I have zero doubt in the fact that we win a championship with him. But it will not be with OBozo at the helm. He brings nothing of value. Just wants to be a dictator
What did you see in the last month of the season that made you feel this way about DW4?

Speaking of lack of weapons, who did Jones have to throw to this year?
 

281Texan

Waterboy
What did you see in the last month of the season that made you feel this way about DW4?

Speaking of lack of weapons, who did Jones have to throw to this year?
I understand deshaun had a bad month, I’m talking about the full body of work. He was 7th in QBR this season. Career 67% completion. 3:1 TD to INT ratio. What do you think our record would be this season with say Fitzpatrick? 4-12? 5-11? 6-10? I mean I’m not trying to be a d!ck but you and maybe 2 other ppl in America feel the way you do. Even the national media who is completely biased against houston has Deshaun as a unanimous top 5 QB.

You’re saying we won’t win a Super Bowl with Deshaun, that’s fine. But don’t insult the the man by saying you’ll take goofy ass Daniel Jones over him. Deshauns been to 2 pro bowls, could’ve potentially been 3 had he not tore his ACL. Daniel Jones is going to unto 2020 with sterling shepherd, Darius Slayton, Golden Tate, saquon, and potentially a guy like Jerry Jeudy. With a good OL. That’s a badass situation for a young QB.

My not so flaming hot take is we won’t win a Super Bowl with OB. He wants Deshaun to be this stand up in the pocket and deliver a strike passer. And while he’s capable of doing that, deshaun does his best work with a moving pocket. I rarely see any designed QB rollouts, and the RPO’s we do run are for a Darren fells 2 yard gain. Not to mention he’s hell bent on running into a wall with a zone run up the middle every first down. We might as well just start with 2nd down with Bill calling plays.

It’s been 3 years and OB clearly still has not figured out how to use Deshaun, and yet he’s still one of the best QB’s in the NFL
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is an article from last July, after Gaine was fired. Someone asked if Cal McNair would be running the Texans the way Jones runs the Cowboys. John answered that question by saying Cal is the furthest thing from Jones.

I’m not a big fan of John McClain but he knows a lot more about the McNair’s than any of us and if he believes BoB has control over personnel, I believe that’s how the “flat” organizational structure is https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texas-sports-nation/texans/amp/McClain-s-Mailbag-Is-Cal-McNair-another-Jerry-14107889.php
Here is all you need to know about Cal McNair from last July 2019:

McNair described the G.M.-free front office as part of a “flatter organization with a faster management style,” via Sports Business Daily. “The organization is totally re-energized with a team-based approach and new leadership based on sub programs with each sub program being fully optimized as a goal.”

And, as always, I have to ask wtf is he talking about?

He's doing the opposite of Jerry Jones. He's letting another dude run just about every aspect of his franchise not related to marketing and fan service.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I understand deshaun had a bad month, I’m talking about the full body of work. He was 7th in QBR this season. Career 67% completion. 3:1 TD to INT ratio. What do you think our record would be this season with say Fitzpatrick? 4-12? 5-11? 6-10? I mean I’m not trying to be a d!ck but you and maybe 2 other ppl in America feel the way you do. Even the national media who is completely biased against houston has Deshaun as a unanimous top 5 QB.

You’re saying we won’t win a Super Bowl with Deshaun, that’s fine. But don’t insult the the man by saying you’ll take goofy ass Daniel Jones over him. Deshauns been to 2 pro bowls, could’ve potentially been 3 had he not tore his ACL. Daniel Jones is going to unto 2020 with sterling shepherd, Darius Slayton, Golden Tate, saquon, and potentially a guy like Jerry Jeudy. With a good OL. That’s a badass situation for a young QB.

My not so flaming hot take is we won’t win a Super Bowl with OB. He wants Deshaun to be this stand up in the pocket and deliver a strike passer. And while he’s capable of doing that, deshaun does his best work with a moving pocket. I rarely see any designed QB rollouts, and the RPO’s we do run are for a Darren fells 2 yard gain. Not to mention he’s hell bent on running into a wall with a zone run up the middle every first down. We might as well just start with 2nd down with Bill calling plays.

It’s been 3 years and OB clearly still has not figured out how to use Deshaun, and yet he’s still one of the best QB’s in the NFL
Pro Bowls?

It's not just the last month of the season. Good defenses shut him down and there was about 7 games out of 17 that he was a below avg QB, whether BOB was the HC or not.

Look at the NYG's WR's and compare them to the Texans and Barkley/Engram missed significant time.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Bwhahaha ain’t no darn body is in my freaking head. Cut that bull crap out gents. We’re too old to playing that silly ash stuff. As long as that joker continues to skit on Watson, I’m going to call him out.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That wasn't his position at all. It was from the point of getting from underneath Rick Smith supposedly curse. Now it's the Deshaun Watson curse.
Nope it was that I knew it would take atleast 3 yrs to recover from the RS curse and also knew BOB wasn't going anywhere. Plus I thought it would take a yr for all of the new talent to come together and for DW4 to learn. After this last yr I'm questioning if DW4's ever going to change or improve his weaknesses. That's all.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Bwhahaha ain’t no darn body is in my freaking head. Cut that bull crap out gents. We’re too old to playing that silly ash stuff. As long as that joker continues to skit on Watson, I’m going to call him out.
Call out as you may.

But my opinion is not only as valid as yours but the difference is I hope I'm wrong and you're right.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Funny ain't it.

I consider when he uses the Bwhahaha comment to be like a joke that's trying to deflect from the discussion/debate.

@Texansballer74 I know I've seen you respond to people who complained about your use of "Bwhahaha" so my comment probably wont change a thing but...

It's not really demeaning (imo) to others. Its demeaning to you and any credibility you may have. It makes you sound like a teenager or younger to use that in every other post. It almost sounds like someone new to the internet.

Aside from that, it's just bad etiquette. It's like typing your posts in all caps.

I don't mean to be "Mrs Manners" here so I apologize ,but I'm not the only one here thinking it. It's a shame to because you have some good posts and legit opinions. Just, the "Bwhahaha" is cringeworthy every time I see it.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Nope it was that I knew it would take atleast 3 yrs to recover from the RS curse and also knew BOB wasn't going anywhere. Plus I thought it would take a yr for all of the new talent to come together and for DW4 to learn. After this last yr I'm questioning if DW4's ever going to change or improve his weaknesses. That's all.
That’s what I was eluding too.

And again Watson showed improvement, you just refuses to acknowledge that even when it’s been laid out for ya.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
@Texansballer74 I know I've seen you respond to people who complained about your use of "Bwhahaha" so my comment probably wont change a thing but...

It's not really demeaning (imo) to others. Its demeaning to you and any credibility you may have. It makes you sound like a teenager or younger to use that in every other post. It almost sounds like someone new to the internet.

Aside from that, it's just bad etiquette. It's like typing your posts in all caps.

I don't mean to be "Mrs Manners" here so I apologize ,but I'm not the only one here thinking it. It's a shame to because you have some good posts and legit opinions. Just, the "Bwhahaha" is cringeworthy every time I see it.
I apologize for being me. It’s like people in here always nitpicking on something. This is the only place I’ve been on that trips over me laughing. Y’all complained about the word pimpn now the Bwhahaha. That just like using LOL / LMAO and all these emojis. One more thing, you could’ve PM’d verse trying to put me on blast.
 
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