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Brandin Cooks to the Texans

Mr teX said:
What happened is the same thing that happened to Gurley that also happened to Johnson in Arizona. They phase these high cap hit guys out b/c they no longer wanna pay them; In the Rams case specifically it is well known they were going to be in cap hell after paying Gurley, Donald and Cooks in 2018... then they turned around and extended Goff in 2019. They needed relief to be able to have a shot at keeping Ramsey so to justify releasing these guy, they poison the market & phase them out so as to make it look like they're done.
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It's hard for me to believe a team intentionally "phases a player out". They ended up trading both Gurley and Cooks. If they played their "usual good" self, the Rams would have received more value in their trades. So why is it an advantage to let them have a down season?
 
dream_team said:
It's hard for me to believe a team intentionally "phases a player out". They ended up trading both Gurley and Cooks. If they played their "usual good" self, the Rams would have received more value in their trades. So why is it an advantage to let them have a down season?
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Makes no sense, they're gonna get paid either way. They already signed the contracts and the Rams have to take the cap hit.

The best thing would be for them to have good years so the Rams could trade them



What happened is that Gurley and Cooks started to suck too much, so they were willing to get rid of them despite the cap hit.

And in one case they found a team dumb enough to give up a valuable asset to take on a bad contract.
 
Mr teX said:
I'm not predicting anything spectacular for DJ or a return to his all-pro season like some are saying he has to have to justify taking him in the trade and his cap hit.
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Me neither, but we better win in the post season. That's my bar for BO'b now. David Johnson can miss 14 games in the regular season, but if he's a beast in the playoffs, red zone monsta... BO'bs a genius.
 
dream_team said:
It's hard for me to believe a team intentionally "phases a player out". They ended up trading both Gurley and Cooks. If they played their "usual good" self, the Rams would have received more value in their trades. So why is it an advantage to let them have a down season?
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not necessarily.

Guys get phased out b/c teams ARE trying to trade them and they don’t want them in harms way too much while they’re trying to do that. Also In trades, the team accepting the players most times accepts the remaining portion of the players’ current contract ......to some degree. What u saw with Gurley is his contract was so bad, no one wanted to take that on...especially with his widely publicized injury concerns..however true they were. In his situation, their efforts to keep what value he had by phasing him out of the offense failed and they just had to release him. With Cooks, they were actually able to find a trade partner....but they had to do that trade at their expense...which shows how desperate they were to rid themselves of that contract.

To sum it up, Each players’ cap hit somewhat worked against the Rams to different ends. If their contracts were reasonable they’re not looking to trade them.

then there’s the fan angle. Gurley was the face of the franchise and beloved there. Cooks also had a good rep. If you’re going to release or trade either of those guys you have to make it appear to fans like these guys are done. The raiders shipped out Mack and got a haul...Gruden and the FO still took a beating for it.
 
dream_team said:
It's hard for me to believe a team intentionally "phases a player out".
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Because it doesn't happen. Gurley's knee "phased" him out. Couldn't handle the workload. I'm told Cooks concussions were not an issue with his performance. So, I guess he's just not as good as before, and the Rams other WRs were much better.
Mr teX said:
If you’re going to release or trade either of those guys you have to make it appear to fans like these guys are done.
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It's the Rams. What fans are you speaking of?
 
I don't think Cooks was phased out of LAR, I think the long game was taken away from them, that's where Cooks shines.

I don't think they were looking to trade him. Then along came BO'b.
 
Falcons signed Gurley to a 5.5 million dollar contract for 2020. All of it is guaranteed.

Texans traded for Johnson who had 2 years left on his contract.

His salary for 2020 is 10.2 million. All of it is guaranteed.

His salary for 2021 is $7,950,000. 2.1 million of it is guaranteed.

So unless we can renegotiate with him or trade him between now & 2021 the Texans are on the hook for 12.3 million dollars.

You tell me who made the better deal. This is not even taking into consideration that the Texans traded one of the league's top WRs in this deal.

In my book Billy O is a complete failure as a GM and it will take the Texans years to overcome his amateurish trades & signings.
 
mws said:
In my book Billy O is a complete failure as a GM and it will take the Texans years to overcome his amateurish trades & signings.
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There must be a GM that blocks this kind of impetuousness. You can't run an organization that jettisons star players just because the HC has had a run-in. I guess you can't expect success when your HC can't get along with the players, either.
 
Lucky said:
Because it doesn't happen. Gurley's knee "phased" him out. Couldn't handle the workload. I'm told Cooks concussions were not an issue with his performance. So, I guess he's just not as good as before, and the Rams other WRs were much better.

It's the Rams. What fans are you speaking of?
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Lol, his contract got him phased out. They had too much of their salary cap tied up in their skill guys, it was obvious what they were trying to do. They were going to have to rebuild their o-line and defense and with no picks to speak of either, they were trying to unload him via trade..when that didn’t work they released him. Last year he saw the lowest number of touches he had seen since his rookie year. It’d be 1 thing if he missed a ton of games b/c of his knee last year..but he didn’t. He actually played more game last year than he did in rookie year too.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, his contract got him phased out. They had too much of their salary cap tied up in their skill guys, it was obvious what they were trying to do.
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Cooks was only 2 years into his deal. The cap hit was worse trading him than keeping him at this point. If they thought he could still perform at his previous level, they could have worked something out. Just like Gurley, they didn't think Cooks could perform to that level.
 
mws said:
Falcons signed Gurley to a 5.5 million dollar contract for 2020. All of it is guaranteed.

Texans traded for Johnson who had 2 years left on his contract.

His salary for 2020 is 10.2 million. All of it is guaranteed.

His salary for 2021 is $7,950,000. 2.1 million of it is guaranteed.

So unless we can renegotiate with him or trade him between now & 2021 the Texans are on the hook for 12.3 million dollars.

You tell me who made the better deal. This is not even taking into consideration that the Texans traded one of the league's top WRs in this deal.

In my book Billy O is a complete failure as a GM and it will take the Texans years to overcome his amateurish trades & signings.
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what makes u think a renegotiation can’t happen?
 
Lucky said:
Cooks was only 2 years into his deal. The cap hit was worse trading him than keeping him at this point. If they thought he could still perform at his previous level, they could have worked something out. Just like Gurley, they didn't think Cooks could perform to that level.
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Rams were desperate for draft picks and cap relief to keep Ramsey. He was 1 of 3 assets left that they still could get both for...& we know they weren’t releasing Donald or Goff. Im willing to bet the prospect of getting much needed cap relief and draft compensation were bigger motivators in getting rid of him than any doubt they had he could still perform.

In addition to that, What exactly is the motivation for Cooks to want to “work something out?” This is a guy who had been traded twice before...once b/c the team didn’t want to pay him. From his end it’s I signed this contract YOU gave me, now pay me. The onus was on the Rams Clearly, they didn’t want to pay him what he had coming which was 12 million for the next 3-4 years.
 
I guess no one is going to mention Cook saying he wanted out. Dude basically got beaten out and fell out of grace with his HC and QB. I'm thinking dude wasn't going all out because of those head shots. Shoot after diagnosis with that many concussions, yall don't think these players would think twice. Human nature kicks in and your mentality slows you down a bit.
 
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Mr teX said:
I'm not predicting anything spectacular for DJ or a return to his all-pro season like some are saying he has to have to justify taking him in the trade and his cap hit. But i do believe 1400 possibly 1500 all purpose yards is well within his reach; he put up a shade under that in 2018 with a worse team.............. when he was getting the touches. I'll let you guys haggle with how you'd like to have that yardage split up but putting up those numbers last year would've landed him just outside the top 10 for all-purpose yards. For perspective on that, Our lead dog Carlos Hyde had a career year here with us and didn't sniff 1400 yards....couldn't even crack the top 40. Lamar Miller had only come close to 1400 yards once in his entire tenure here. Neither of those guy were the threat in the passing game that DJ is. MJD of NFL network predicts around 1300 total yards. 700 rush, 600 passing 10 total TD's. Even if he just puts up those numbers, that's still light years better than what Carlos Hyde did last .
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I think we have several players that can get quite a few yards this season. What I would like to see is someone who can get quite a few touchdowns this season. More than one scorer like this would be better. I doubt our defense will reduce the points against us by very much this year so it has to be upon the offense to significantly increase the points for us this season.
 
Mr teX said:
What exactly is the motivation for Cooks to want to “work something out?” This is a guy who had been traded twice before...once b/c the team didn’t want to pay him. From his end it’s I signed this contract YOU gave me, now pay me.
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Cooks had only $8 million guaranteed left coming off a bad season. Give him more guaranteed money, he would have made his contract more cap friendly.
 
Texansballer74 said:
=Shoot after diagnosis with that many concussions, yall don't think these players would think twice. Human nature kicks in and your mentality slows you down a bit.
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I've been told it's not a concern. But I don't really buy it. Cooks doesn't want to throw money away ($8 million). What we don't know is what he's willing to do while collecting it. Not saying I would blame the guy one bit.
 
Lucky said:
There must be a GM that blocks this kind of impetuousness. You can't run an organization that jettisons star players just because the HC has had a run-in. I guess you can't expect success when your HC can't get along with the players, either.
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We're going to find out about this
 
Lucky said:
The Rams were desperately shopping Cooks. The Eagles passed. Then as you said...
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You dont know who went 1st.

Just like with Nuk, the Rams took the best deal they could get. 57 and a 2022 4th which they really didn't want to give up the 4th to get a deal done but they went ahead and did the deal. This is according to King.
 
Mr teX said:
He knows the offense dude, you don't put up the numbers he has over the last 3 years being clueless to how to run the offense. It's also well known that DW4 is a film junkie. The biggest issue for him is being able to be settled. His 1st few years the o-line had alot to do with that as he was constantly under siege. Last year, while the o-line play got much better, they still had issues with protection at times & I think the new pieces at WR and RB at times were problems as well.
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Then how come he's not better at finding open WR's/TE's/RB's.
 
Could have gotten him for a 5th probably.

Obrien doesn't know what he's doing.


Rams smartly offloaded a terrible contract, but were lucky a dumb team like the Texans are around
 
thunderkyss said:
Got a feeling I’m going to be Brandin Cooks fan this season. & I really couldn’t have given two sits about him a few minutes ago.
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I don't really dislike him. He was awesome at one point. I just think the Rams dumped him because he's not good anymore
 
Mr teX said:
what makes u think a renegotiation can’t happen?
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I actually never offered an opinion on whether it would be renegotiated. I just said it had to be or the Texans would be out 12M.

He'll be 30 in 2022 when he becomes an UFA.

I'm curious what terms you think the Texans could offer him that would be so appealing he would he give up 12 million guaranteed?
 
mussop said:
I would say poor coaching, mediocre Oline and plays poorly designed that take to long to develop and not designed to his strength as a QB.
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Recievers aren't getting open either. A lot of times we only had two receivers going out on a passing play. Quite of few times the youngster was under duress.


My thing is no QB is perfect. They're going to miss some recievers from time to time.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Recievers aren't getting open either. A lot of times we only had two receivers going out on a passing play. Quite of few times the youngster was under duress.


My thing is no QB is perfect. They're going to miss some recievers from time to time.
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This reminds me of people during the season posting screenshots of Hyde 2 yards behind the Los or fells one yard past the los as "proof" Watson was missing receivers.
 
thunderkyss said:
Got a feeling I’m going to be Brandin Cooks fan this season. & I really couldn’t have given two sits about him a few minutes ago.
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Again, it isn't necessarily about the player(s). It's about the value. That doesn't effect you today, but it will down the road. Right now the Texans think they're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Little do they know, that light is from a locomotive barreling down on them about to blow it all up.
 
steelbtexan said:
You don't keep either.

Both are going to be here though and some posters ( not you) need to learn to accept this.
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Are you referring to the 2021 season (you said 2020)? . At this point, it is obvious that Watson and BOB are both here for the 2020 season. Who is saying otherwise?
 
RGV82 said:
Are you referring to the 2021 season (you said 2020)? . At this point, it is obvious that Watson and BOB are both here for the 2020 season. Who is saying otherwise?
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I was responding to OT's post.

But both really, unless the bottom falls out.
 
RGV82 said:
I find it odd to think that some people think BOB or Watson will be gone before the start of this upcoming 2020 season. There is no way that is happening. Most likely in 2021.
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That's just wishful thinking by a large segment of some posters.
 
RGV82 said:
I find it odd to think that some people think BOB or Watson will be gone before the start of this upcoming 2020 season. There is no way that is happening. Most likely in 2021.
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Nobody said they would be gone. Some of us are displeased with Obrien and the direction this team is heading. We also know there's a chance Tunsil could bounce. Some members struggles with that possibility because they're all knowing.
 
steelbtexan said:
That's just wishful thinking by a large segment of some posters.
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Yeah, I know its wishful thinking, but you said "Both are going to be here though and some posters need to learn to accept this." I am pretty sure that everyone has already learned that they will both be here in 2020 by now. Oh well.
 
mws said:
Falcons signed Gurley to a 5.5 million dollar contract for 2020. All of it is guaranteed.

Texans traded for Johnson who had 2 years left on his contract.

His salary for 2020 is 10.2 million. All of it is guaranteed.

His salary for 2021 is $7,950,000. 2.1 million of it is guaranteed.

So unless we can renegotiate with him or trade him between now & 2021 the Texans are on the hook for 12.3 million dollars.

You tell me who made the better deal. This is not even taking into consideration that the Texans traded one of the league's top WRs in this deal.

In my book Billy O is a complete failure as a GM and it will take the Texans years to overcome his amateurish trades & signings.
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Thanks for the breakdown, but I think Gurley is done, so as horrible as it is what we are paying DJ, I would bet he has more production than Gurley (this version of Gurley), not what we pay him, but more than Gurley. The deal I would compare is Melvin Gordon. I think both DJ and Gordon's best are behind them, but we shall see. Gordon was 2 years, $16m, $13.5 gtd. So 2020 for DJ is easily an overpay
 
TheKDog said:
This reminds me of people during the season posting screenshots of Hyde 2 yards behind the Los or fells one yard past the los as "proof" Watson was missing receivers.
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That's because it is true (on occasion) - at times the pass to Hyde '2 yards' behind the line of scrimmage, or the pass to Fells 1 yard past the line - is the correct pass, if there isn't anything open downfield, taking the dump-off isn't always a negative.

I would rather have a potential 3 yard gain than a no-gain, or loss of yards (sack) - its the difference between 2nd and 10 or 2nd and 7 - it makes a difference.

I'm a Watson fan, but let's not sit around pretending there aren't things he can improve upon and knowing when to take the check down, throw the ball away is one of them. You don't want him to do it all of the time because of his freelancing and escapability - but there were several times during the season where that short pass would have been the correct decision even if it went for a loss, and Watson avoided a big hit or a 'bigger' negative play. You see QB's do this every week - sometimes you get lucky and a missed tackle makes a '2 yard loss' a '12 yard gain'. Watson can protect himself somewhat by knowing when to just dump it and move on to the next play.
 
thunderkyss said:
Got a feeling I’m going to be Brandin Cooks fan this season. & I really couldn’t have given two sits about him a few minutes ago.
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No one is rooting against Cooks. Or Johnson for that matter. They could each have career years and that would be super. Sugar plums and lollipops. But if we're trying to be real, a redux of Cooks and Johnson's 2019 seasons is more likely.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
That's because it is true (on occasion) - at times the pass to Hyde '2 yards' behind the line of scrimmage, or the pass to Fells 1 yard past the line - is the correct pass, if there isn't anything open downfield, taking the dump-off isn't always a negative.

I would rather have a potential 3 yard gain than a no-gain, or loss of yards (sack) - its the difference between 2nd and 10 or 2nd and 7 - it makes a difference.

I'm a Watson fan, but let's not sit around pretending there aren't things he can improve upon and knowing when to take the check down, throw the ball away is one of them. You don't want him to do it all of the time because of his freelancing and escapability - but there were several times during the season where that short pass would have been the correct decision even if it went for a loss, and Watson avoided a big hit or a 'bigger' negative play. You see QB's do this every week - sometimes you get lucky and a missed tackle makes a '2 yard loss' a '12 yard gain'. Watson can protect himself somewhat by knowing when to just dump it and move on to the next play.
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We’ve all said he needs to improve in some areas. Shoots even the greats had to continue to work and improve their game. They wouldn’t have won SBs or made it to the HOF.

But coaching has to improve as well. The offensive line play has to improve the most. Going from 32 to 27 isn’t that much of an improvement like some on here think it is. They need to take a huge leap, meaning improving from 27 to top 10.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
That's because it is true (on occasion) - at times the pass to Hyde '2 yards' behind the line of scrimmage, or the pass to Fells 1 yard past the line - is the correct pass, if there isn't anything open downfield, taking the dump-off isn't always a negative.

I would rather have a potential 3 yard gain than a no-gain, or loss of yards (sack) - its the difference between 2nd and 10 or 2nd and 7 - it makes a difference.

I'm a Watson fan, but let's not sit around pretending there aren't things he can improve upon and knowing when to take the check down, throw the ball away is one of them. You don't want him to do it all of the time because of his freelancing and escapability - but there were several times during the season where that short pass would have been the correct decision even if it went for a loss, and Watson avoided a big hit or a 'bigger' negative play. You see QB's do this every week - sometimes you get lucky and a missed tackle makes a '2 yard loss' a '12 yard gain'. Watson can protect himself somewhat by knowing when to just dump it and move on to the next play.
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Like the dump off to Duke on the GW drive against the Bills. Short pass, Duke makes a guy miss on 3rd and 9. 1st down.

If DJ isn't washed he can do this on a regular basis and with more speed at WR the defense should be stretched more so there should be more room for DJ to operate.
 
Texansballer74 said:
We’ve all said he needs to improve in some areas. Shoots even the greats had to continue to work and improve their game. They wouldn’t have won SBs or made it to the HOF.

But coaching has to improve as well. The offensive line play has to improve the most. Going from 32 to 27 isn’t that much of an improvement like some on here think it is. They need to take a huge leap, meaning improving from 27 to top 10.
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If everybody stays healthy the OL will improve. They do need to add a couple of depth/Developmental guys.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
That's because it is true (on occasion) - at times the pass to Hyde '2 yards' behind the line of scrimmage, or the pass to Fells 1 yard past the line - is the correct pass, if there isn't anything open downfield, taking the dump-off isn't always a negative.

I would rather have a potential 3 yard gain than a no-gain, or loss of yards (sack) - its the difference between 2nd and 10 or 2nd and 7 - it makes a difference.

I'm a Watson fan, but let's not sit around pretending there aren't things he can improve upon and knowing when to take the check down, throw the ball away is one of them. You don't want him to do it all of the time because of his freelancing and escapability - but there were several times during the season where that short pass would have been the correct decision even if it went for a loss, and Watson avoided a big hit or a 'bigger' negative play. You see QB's do this every week - sometimes you get lucky and a missed tackle makes a '2 yard loss' a '12 yard gain'. Watson can protect himself somewhat by knowing when to just dump it and move on to the next play.
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Agreed we should see his flaws clearly, but these screenshots don't show that "he doesn't see the field well."

They show he doesn't want to dump off to a bad receiver who isn't going to gain any yardage. Hyde is an atrocious receiver and Fells is mediocre at best.

What they do show is Watson sometimes tries to do too much, and as we saw at the end of the Buffalo game, he often CAN do more than anyone can reasonably expect. So just asking him to dump off 20 times a game Mallet-style is wrong imo.
 
steelbtexan said:
Like the dump off to Duke on the GW drive against the Bills. Short pass, Duke makes a guy miss on 3rd and 9. 1st down.

If DJ isn't washed he can do this on a regular basis and with more speed at WR the defense should be stretched more so there should be more room for DJ to operate.
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You mean after Watson’s incredible escape after he was hit from both sides, and it looked like he was about to be killed? I agree 100%
By the way, that was Taiwan Jones who caught that split second dump off pass and almost took it to the house. Either way, so clutch of QB1, and awesome RAC by the third stringer RB.
 
Texansballer74 said:
We’ve all said he needs to improve in some areas. Shoots even the greats had to continue to work and improve their game. They wouldn’t have won SBs or made it to the HOF.

But coaching has to improve as well. The offensive line play has to improve the most. Going from 32 to 27 isn’t that much of an improvement like some on here think it is. They need to take a huge leap, meaning improving from 27 to top 10.
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I don't disagree, and I'm not saying Watson is the only person on the team that needs to improve (player, coach, whoever) - but the comment was specifically discussing Watson and knowing when to dump off a pass 'live to fight another play'.
 
Mangler said:
You mean after Watson’s incredible escape play after it looked like he was about to be killed? I agree 100%
By the way, that was Taiwan Jones who caught that split second dump off pass and almost took it to the house. Either way, so clutch of QB1, and awesome RAC by the third stringer RB.
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Your talking about a play where DW4 missed another blitz and pulled off a Houdini act?

That's how you win championships
 
TheKDog said:
Agreed we should see his flaws clearly, but these screenshots don't show that "he doesn't see the field well."

They show he doesn't want to dump off to a bad receiver who isn't going to gain any yardage. Hyde is an atrocious receiver and Fells is mediocre at best.

What they do show is Watson sometimes tries to do too much, and as we saw at the end of the Buffalo game, he often CAN do more than anyone can reasonably expect. So just asking him to dump off 20 times a game Mallet-style is wrong imo.
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Devil's advocate here - but wrong in what aspect? You more than most want BOB gone, if DW has to dump the ball off 20 times a game like you say (over-exaggeration) then doing so and not performing miracles would bring BOB's exit about faster?
 
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