TheCD
Rookie
Time to ingite the debate once again...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7405153.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7405153.html
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Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"
- Thread starter TheCD
- Start date
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Not successful but definitely been profitable
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
For some reason, I can't help but be reminded of the old line:
"Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."
At least Bob's talking the talk in the article, but that's the easy part.
In other news, it's also the time of year to get people signed up for the Season Ticket Priority Waitlist.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Actually, we're the 10th most valuable franchise in the world. I think we're 6th among NFL teams. The remaining franchises are 3 soccer clubs and the Yankees. Thus likely making your point even more valid. lol
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think the Lakers are up there too, but yeah we make the Texans worth a lot...
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
LMAO! Can't take anything Bob says seriously, until I see that Texans logo in the playoff bracket on ESPN.
mancunian
Old Timer
oops mis read that then......
Interesting read. I found this part to be enlightening:
I have always been under the impression that he sought their advice in the beginning, but this paints an entirely different picture.
I do not question his desire to win. To me, at least, that's a no brainer. You spend a billion on a football team, you damn sure want to win. However, that being said, I think the learning curve and loyalty issues have really cost him in the past 9 seasons. Hopefully his decisions pay off in 2011 (provided there's a season, of course). A decade of futility is good for nobody in this city, owner included.
I have always been under the impression that he sought their advice in the beginning, but this paints an entirely different picture.
I do not question his desire to win. To me, at least, that's a no brainer. You spend a billion on a football team, you damn sure want to win. However, that being said, I think the learning curve and loyalty issues have really cost him in the past 9 seasons. Hopefully his decisions pay off in 2011 (provided there's a season, of course). A decade of futility is good for nobody in this city, owner included.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
More than anything, this interview reinforces what a total disaster Casserly was. If there had to be one landmine for McNair to step on, that was it. Dom Capers is in a Superbowl, and Casserly got bitchslapped by Belichick last we heard.
Very true. It's not like he reaps dividends like it's a stock. The only thing that matters when talking about the team's monetary value is cap space.
Very true. It's not like he reaps dividends like it's a stock. The only thing that matters when talking about the team's monetary value is cap space.
nah, with 9 consecutive seasons of Reliant sellouts and 21 years left on the lease, moving the team is the last thing that I'm worried about.
Whatever BoB,
The proof is in the pudding and so far your actions haven't matched your words.
Like I said last yr it's time for you to step up to the plate and put your $$$$ where your mouth is.
The proof is in the pudding and so far your actions haven't matched your words.
Like I said last yr it's time for you to step up to the plate and put your $$$$ where your mouth is.
Funny, that was my reply to the article on Chron.com
You and me both...wouldn't it be nioce to get a guy we KNOW is still good?
Hervoyel
BUENO!
See, I know I've been changed as a fan (for good I suspect) because I read this article and can't help but think "What an asshole".
I know that's not really what he's like. At least I'm pretty sure it isn't. I understand that he thinks he's doing the right thing and that he wants to win. It's not that he's an asshole. It's that he's far out of his element and that makes him as clueless as you or I would be trying to cut diamonds professionally or performing a triple bypass on someone (assuming none of you do either of jobs for a living, I don't).
I don't believe him. I don't believe in him. I think he does this kind of interview at this time of year because (as Mr. White said) it's time to get people thinking of season tickets for 2011.
When I think about that then I start thinking he's an asshole.
I know that's not really what he's like. At least I'm pretty sure it isn't. I understand that he thinks he's doing the right thing and that he wants to win. It's not that he's an asshole. It's that he's far out of his element and that makes him as clueless as you or I would be trying to cut diamonds professionally or performing a triple bypass on someone (assuming none of you do either of jobs for a living, I don't).
I don't believe him. I don't believe in him. I think he does this kind of interview at this time of year because (as Mr. White said) it's time to get people thinking of season tickets for 2011.
When I think about that then I start thinking he's an asshole.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Put your money where your mouth is, Bob. Bringing Wade in was pretty big $ for a coordinator but we need to spare no expense and if that means firing Kubiak and hiring a proven winner, so be it.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This makes his previous statement that the other owners think that we are on the right tract that much more ridiculous.
That crossed my mind, too, as well as mentions in the past of owners recommending Casserly as a GM.
Part of me wants to give him the benefit of the doubt...perhaps out of pity, maybe a dash of Texans fan optimism (not much there to be honest), and chalk it up to just being ignorant on running a football team...but then, I'm as cynical as they come and completely see where Mr. White and Herv are coming from with the ticket sales angle. The timing of this 'interview' supports the latter more than it does the former.
ThaShark316
#28
No playoffs next season = new...everything damn near.
Kubiak is ****ed if he starts 0-2.
Kubiak is ****ed if he starts 0-2.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Hopefully for his sake Houston doesn't face a combination of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New Orleans or Atlanta in the first two games then.
I thought 2009 was the Year of No Excuses?
The value of the franchise is meaningless? Does McNair think we are a bunch of rubes that don't understand the value of borrowing against appreciating assets?
And where does McNair get off on criticizing Carolina or Jacksonville? Those franchises have yet to win championships, but both have had tangible success. The Texans have attained squat. I'm glad that Houston has a NFL team and that someone ponied up the $$$ to obtain one. But the NFL has a license to print money, so spare me the idea that McNair risked anything.
The more McNair opens his mouth, the more I realize that he is the wrong man to head a NFL franchise. "They never showed us how to setup for the draft." Good grief, Bob McNair.
I'll believe that when I see it, honestly this "make or break" season..... is starting to sound more and more like "WOLF, WOLF!!"
I think people talk out of both sides of their mouthes when it comes to this kind of stuff.
I was mad as hell about our team last season. I even stopped going to games which was a big deal because I don't know if I'll be close enough to attend games next year. I was furious.
At the same time, I can't say that I see Bob being willfully negligent. I can't say that i think he's pinching pennies where it isn't necessary. What, if anything, would I do in his shoes?
He has let football people run the football team. At least that's what I see. When he didn't have it right, he brought in a football mind to fix the situation. I think he's too patient with Kubiak, and maybe Kubiak should be gone... but the first guy to get the team to respectability in the teams history takes a step back.... I don't know if I'd fire him either. I mean in today's "win now or get fired" model look at the teams that follow the fire them after 3 or 4 years... guess what... they wind up doing it with another coach for another 3 or 4 years.
The league is decidedly average. In fact, the entire nfl has a winning percentage of .500 every year. The teams that have been successful long term have done so with continuity. Think the Shanahan era was all roses? Did he suddenly forget how to coach? He coached well in 3 year stints. Look at Dallas. Since Jimmy Johnson left they have had kind of random success. Parcells had one good year there. His first. After that, he never won 10 games again. How many wouldn't kill for Parcells here?
There have been 3 staples of the last 8 years. The Steelers, the Colts, the Pats. Guess what. They've had 2 coaching changes between them.
Now sure they've gotten good coaches, but I can show you a litany off coaches who were great and retired or took time off, then came back and were unable to duplicate their success... and jettisoned after a few years. Did they suddenly forget to coach? Did Gibbs forget? What about Jimmy Johnson? Parcels wasn't the same. There are decidedly average coaches who move on and become great. Think NE is glad that Cleveland gave Billy the boot? Could he have replicated his success if he was kept in Cleveland?
Oh and now someone's going to go all "Mora, Harbaugh, Payton" on me. Can I see your coach and raise you a QB? All three of the overnight success stories include a new QB. And I can show you new QBs that fail.
I guess my point having gone back and looked at franchise records is that the argument for "do you get rid of Kubiak" isn't as cut and dry. Its not "get rid of him you cheap bastard". There is nothing that will increase Mcnair's revenue like winning. I mean look at some of the decisions he could have made.
I tell you what. Since HWWNBN somebody tell me a mistake that has set this team back half a decade. There isn't one. Yeah we haven't gone out and signed the "Surefire" FA. Guess what. We don't have an Albert Haynesworth, Mcnabb, Cromartiesque" disaster on our hands either. In fact name the HUGE FA signings that have made teams better. I'm really curious to see what people come up with. I can think of a few but there are a lot more that worked out like the most recent triplets in Cincy than those that worked out like Montana to KC.
Sorry. Stream of consciousness while looking all over footballreference.com, if it didn't make sense maybe I'll try to put it to music later.
Mike
I was mad as hell about our team last season. I even stopped going to games which was a big deal because I don't know if I'll be close enough to attend games next year. I was furious.
At the same time, I can't say that I see Bob being willfully negligent. I can't say that i think he's pinching pennies where it isn't necessary. What, if anything, would I do in his shoes?
He has let football people run the football team. At least that's what I see. When he didn't have it right, he brought in a football mind to fix the situation. I think he's too patient with Kubiak, and maybe Kubiak should be gone... but the first guy to get the team to respectability in the teams history takes a step back.... I don't know if I'd fire him either. I mean in today's "win now or get fired" model look at the teams that follow the fire them after 3 or 4 years... guess what... they wind up doing it with another coach for another 3 or 4 years.
The league is decidedly average. In fact, the entire nfl has a winning percentage of .500 every year. The teams that have been successful long term have done so with continuity. Think the Shanahan era was all roses? Did he suddenly forget how to coach? He coached well in 3 year stints. Look at Dallas. Since Jimmy Johnson left they have had kind of random success. Parcells had one good year there. His first. After that, he never won 10 games again. How many wouldn't kill for Parcells here?
There have been 3 staples of the last 8 years. The Steelers, the Colts, the Pats. Guess what. They've had 2 coaching changes between them.
Now sure they've gotten good coaches, but I can show you a litany off coaches who were great and retired or took time off, then came back and were unable to duplicate their success... and jettisoned after a few years. Did they suddenly forget to coach? Did Gibbs forget? What about Jimmy Johnson? Parcels wasn't the same. There are decidedly average coaches who move on and become great. Think NE is glad that Cleveland gave Billy the boot? Could he have replicated his success if he was kept in Cleveland?
Oh and now someone's going to go all "Mora, Harbaugh, Payton" on me. Can I see your coach and raise you a QB? All three of the overnight success stories include a new QB. And I can show you new QBs that fail.
I guess my point having gone back and looked at franchise records is that the argument for "do you get rid of Kubiak" isn't as cut and dry. Its not "get rid of him you cheap bastard". There is nothing that will increase Mcnair's revenue like winning. I mean look at some of the decisions he could have made.
I tell you what. Since HWWNBN somebody tell me a mistake that has set this team back half a decade. There isn't one. Yeah we haven't gone out and signed the "Surefire" FA. Guess what. We don't have an Albert Haynesworth, Mcnabb, Cromartiesque" disaster on our hands either. In fact name the HUGE FA signings that have made teams better. I'm really curious to see what people come up with. I can think of a few but there are a lot more that worked out like the most recent triplets in Cincy than those that worked out like Montana to KC.
Sorry. Stream of consciousness while looking all over footballreference.com, if it didn't make sense maybe I'll try to put it to music later.
Mike
Why do some teams have continuity? Because they are winning. No one keeps the same organization around when they lose. No one except the Bengals and the Texans, anyway.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If those are the only teams you think he should be worried about,................you've just probably made Kubiak one happy son of a gun.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Greatest sports talks and a Victoria Secret model .
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...-khalifa-steelers-anthem/index.html?eref=sihp
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...-khalifa-steelers-anthem/index.html?eref=sihp
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
You know what I'd love to see? A Bob McNair parody of the LeBron James "what should I do" commercial. It would be hilarious.
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Well its kind of a chicken/egg argument. Has Pittsburgh just been lucky to have 3 amazing coaches in a row for like a 30 year span? Did ownership just pick the right guy?
I will ask again. Is Billy a better coach because he's in the hellhole known as Mass instead of Cleveland? Was the Dungy that was fired by Tampa somehow better as a coach in Indy? Explain Gruden?
Do Indy,NE and Pitt have the only 3 good coaches in the league? Is Harbaugh any good? Fischer was considered great by many. Would you want him here? I believe him to be a decidedly average coach who benefited from continuity. oh, and his first several years.. yeah... VERY average.
If anything, over the last 5 years you can tie a teams success to the QB more than any other player. Without an absolutely awful defense, this is a playoff team.
And maybe firing Kubiak IS the right move. I'm just not sure. If the success of the QB determines the success of the team, all other things being equal... then brining in Phillips and giving Kubiak "Reidesque" responsibilities may very well be the model for success.
Mike
If he's a football simpleton, I'm ok with that. I'd rather have a football simpleton of an owner like Bob Kraft than a football genius like Daniel Snyder.
Its no secret that Bob is learning on the job... as long as he learns, I'm ok with it. I hope he learns that he knows absolutely nothing. That his job is to sign a check and he needs to have football people make football decisions. Then you just hope that you get good football people. (The answer to the question I asked lucky, in my opinion, is that the organizations have good football people in place. They have excellent turnover and groom people well. The owners aren't "football experts"... they hire football experts and keep talent in house. Cincy, Det, Oak, Dallas all have either "expert Owners" or change guys all the time. Neither system works well if you ask me.
Mike
texanchris
Waterboy
Maybe Bob should hire someone to edit what hes going to say before he says it so he doesnt sound like a moron. I mean really, panthers made it to the super bowl and jaguars to the Championship game and he thinks we are better franchise? We have yet to make the playoffs and hardly managed our first winning season. I find it funny how he talks about how bad those 2 teams are now yet the jaguars beat us this season. Granted, it was a fluke play but a win is a win and that unsuccesful jaguars team lately still managed to get 2 more wins than us.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The Steelers were the laughing stock for their first 50 years or so . Then they hired Chuck Noll who hired scouts to harvest talent from small schools while picking guys like Lynn Swann . They also drafted a 230 lb centers who were 260 in a year .
Whatever they did they established a rich tradition that is still there .
http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/roster/1974
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/pitt/steelers.html
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The difference between Snyder and McNair is that Snyder is a football simpleton who THINKS he is a football expert, while McNair is a football simpleton who KNOWS he is not a football expert. If McNair continues to fail to put the right decision makers in place or allows the decision makers to continue to fail, his team will not fair any better than Snyder's has.
drs23
Veteran
Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by the bolded? Just asking.
Showtime100
Got JJ?
drs23
Veteran
Thanks much CB.
GP
Go Texans!
Probably the best post I've read on here in a month.
And I think you wrote the one a month ago that I am referring to.
Every coach who comes to this franchise has to lie and say they can "get it done with the player(s) already here..." so that's been the most honest valuation of this team to date. Even Capers falls into this description, because he got screwed with a shitty expansion draft except for Gary Walker and Seth Payne (meh, throw in Aaron Glenn too. Three players out of the whole damn thing).
LOL. This team was screwed in the beginning, via a poor expansion draft pool, and now McNair (out of fear) is screwing himself. Brilliantly played. But hey, it's "not just about financial success. No sir."
McNair, shovel, manure, mushrooms. I'm noticing a pattern here.
Texan4Ever
All Pro
Dukes on some Houston radio sports show was saying the Texans got screwed over by the league because of new expansion team rules that didn't apply to Carolina or Jaxy back when they came into the league. He also said what you said, the team got started off in the wrong direction from its inception.
I do believe that Bob was pointing out the discrepancies in what the expansion teams were given.
I thought about this for a while. I don't think anyone here can claim to have enough knowledge to know how to fix the team. I don't think any of us have enough staked in the game to have a comparable concern about winning as Mcnair either.
The reality is, there are some people who would scream for Cowher, some for Fischer, some for Gruden and some for Kubiak. If Mcnair hires any of them.. 75% would have an "I told you so" card in their pocket. If 3, 4 or 5 years into a Cowher, Gruden or Fisher campaign, we were 8-8 or 9-7 (which all three of those coaches finished SEVERAL times... 75% would carry their card in and say "haa... Mcnair is an *****".
The same people who wanted Bodden, Haynesworth, Adam Pacman Jones et al have somehow determined that Mcnair is a tightwad for not signing their guy. The people who want the coaches fired and/or hired... think they could have finished it.
Personally I hope that Mcnair doesn't listen to the fans at all. I hope he puts football guys in position to make football decisions. If he had listened to fans we'd have just gotten rid of our number 1 overall pick. That or we'd have an over-hyped scat back with a fumbling problem. If he listens to football people eventually it'll get done right. When that happens, don't go all Jerrah on us and fire your "Jimmy Johnson".
Either way... Go Texans.
Mike
The reality is, there are some people who would scream for Cowher, some for Fischer, some for Gruden and some for Kubiak. If Mcnair hires any of them.. 75% would have an "I told you so" card in their pocket. If 3, 4 or 5 years into a Cowher, Gruden or Fisher campaign, we were 8-8 or 9-7 (which all three of those coaches finished SEVERAL times... 75% would carry their card in and say "haa... Mcnair is an *****".
The same people who wanted Bodden, Haynesworth, Adam Pacman Jones et al have somehow determined that Mcnair is a tightwad for not signing their guy. The people who want the coaches fired and/or hired... think they could have finished it.
Personally I hope that Mcnair doesn't listen to the fans at all. I hope he puts football guys in position to make football decisions. If he had listened to fans we'd have just gotten rid of our number 1 overall pick. That or we'd have an over-hyped scat back with a fumbling problem. If he listens to football people eventually it'll get done right. When that happens, don't go all Jerrah on us and fire your "Jimmy Johnson".
Either way... Go Texans.
Mike
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
If those are the only teams you think he should be worried about,................you've just probably made Kubiak one happy son of a gun.
Not what I was trying to indicate. Just that those four teams will likely be the toughest opponents on the schedule next year. If 0-2 means Kubiak's screwed then hopefully the toughest teams on the schedule aren't at the beginning of it. Houston was 4-2 at the beginning of the year, but they collapsed during the toughest part of their schedule.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
That's just part of it.
When Jax/Carolina came into the league, teams had not yet figured out how to keep their best players under the salary cap. Most teams were in salary cap hades, but the Panthers and Jags had no bad contracts because they were new, and had lots of money to spend.
The Texans tried to get more draft picks, but the NFL, unhappy with the early success of Panthers/Jags, wanted no part of it.
The best players the Texans got through the expansion draft was all about taking bad contracts off the hands of other teams--otherwise, those teams wouldn't expose good players.
Ultimately, I think people are so unhappy with what has happened with the team that they miss the fundamental thing McNair was saying...which is winning matters and Forbes valuations mean nothing if you aren't selling the team (and he claims they are not accurate). When you are mad at how things are going, you tend to read things in the worst possible way.
The comments about not having owner mentors from the beginning is weird though.
Charley Casserly and Dom Capers have been gone for 5 years. It's past time to stop blaming them for what's wrong with the Texans today. It's not the NFL's tougher expansion rules that are crux of the Texans problems. That was 9 years ago.
The problem is that the guy at the top doesn't know how to run the football side of a NFL franchise. Still. Sure, McNair's making money hand over fist. Mike Brown and the Bengals can do that. But producing winning teams on the field? Bob hasn't a clue.
What need to happen is for McNair to step away from the football side completely, much like the Cowboys original owner Clint Murchison had done. Hire the very best football guy available and let him run the organization in total. McNair would have one decision point Is the guy I hired to run the organization getting the job done? I don't know how McNair made his $millions (or $billions). But, it doesn't translate to winning in the NFL. Bob McNair needs to come to the realization that the problem is Bob McNair.
The problem is that the guy at the top doesn't know how to run the football side of a NFL franchise. Still. Sure, McNair's making money hand over fist. Mike Brown and the Bengals can do that. But producing winning teams on the field? Bob hasn't a clue.
What need to happen is for McNair to step away from the football side completely, much like the Cowboys original owner Clint Murchison had done. Hire the very best football guy available and let him run the organization in total. McNair would have one decision point Is the guy I hired to run the organization getting the job done? I don't know how McNair made his $millions (or $billions). But, it doesn't translate to winning in the NFL. Bob McNair needs to come to the realization that the problem is Bob McNair.
You don't think that McNair is involved in football operations do you?