Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters"

[thunderkyss]

Interesting read. I found this part to be enlightening:

In retrospect, he admits he wishes he'd sought the counsel of his experienced peers, but at the time there was a pretty good reason why he chose not to.

"I'd been negotiating with them over the price of the team," McNair said.

"They were trying to get as high a price as they could, and I was trying to get a reasonable price," he said. "After you've gone through that, you're not real confident talking to those folks and asking for advice - not after they've just finished trying to take every nickel you have.

"I mean, how much could I trust them? I had to learn who would be honest and candid with me. That took some time."

I have always been under the impression that he sought their advice in the beginning, but this paints an entirely different picture.

I do not question his desire to win. To me, at least, that's a no brainer. You spend a billion on a football team, you damn sure want to win. However, that being said, I think the learning curve and loyalty issues have really cost him in the past 9 seasons. Hopefully his decisions pay off in 2011 (provided there's a season, of course). A decade of futility is good for nobody in this city, owner included.

He did talk to other owners about several things. But the things he mentioned specifically, I think it was pretty obvious that he was going by what Casserly was telling him, "you're going to have to overpay to get decent talent in Houston, to win."

Which more or less is true. I have no problem with overpaying for elite talent. But we were overpaying for average/below average folks (Weaver, & everyone before him.).

Then when Kubiak came in, you could see how much influence he had in all kinds of aspects of running this team. Things most head coaches have no say in, much less a first timer.

So when he talked to other people, they signed off on Capers (which I thought was a good idea), & they signed off on Casserly (which I think was the real problem, the biggest problem.... not that I wanted Capers to be here any longer). & McNair let them do their business. but he found out how full of **** Casserly was when Kubiak got here.

IMO, McNair's talk about not going backwards, is pretty much about writing off the first 4 years, where we basically went backwards. You can't say, "If we had done this, or we had done that, then .... " He knows it doesn't work that way. We've got to look at what we have now & move forward.

The decision to go with a first time head coach & a first time GM is probably the decision he is talking about most there.

 

[thunderkyss]

Hey Bob? Prove me wrong and sign Namdi! That'll show me how wrong I am!

I double dog dare ya!!

The Cincinnati Bengals have had more success than we've had over the last 9 years. Yet the only "big name" FAs they are able to land are guys like Terrell Owens & Cedric Benson.

My point, is that there will be a number of teams trying to get Namdi Asomugha on their roster, offering as much money as we will. Why would he come here? I personally don't know that would be a good measuring stick for "Bob" to prove you're wrong.

Johnathan Joseph... maybe.

The only thing that really bothers me about what we've done in FA, is that we're not very active. Perhaps they are doing their due dilligence & bringing in the best that they can, but I'd like to see them bring in more numbers. Get 6 corners in here, work them all out. Get some bodies for training camp & if they are as good as Molden, you keep him, cut Molden... or Okam (don't wait till the season starts to try to fill your roster)... or Anderson (who I do like) or Slaton, or Studdard, or Barber, etc... those guys aren't helping us win anyhow. Get them competing for their jobs.

But that's me.

 

[thunderkyss]

And where does McNair get off on criticizing Carolina or Jacksonville? Those franchises have yet to win championships, but both have had tangible success. The Texans have attained squat.

I don't know if it was criticism, or just observation. It's not like he said they don't know how to run a franchise or build a team, or anything like that.

He said they had success early, but wouldn't want to be in the position they are in now. Doesn't mean that he wouldn't like to have had that kind of success.

Jacksonville can't give away tickets & are talking about moving.

The Panthers are where we were 5 years ago.

Just saying, I don't think it's criticism.

 

[thunderkyss]

I mean in today's "win now or get fired" model look at the teams that follow the fire them after 3 or 4 years... guess what... they wind up doing it with another coach for another 3 or 4 years.

There have been 3 staples of the last 8 years. The Steelers, the Colts, the Pats. Guess what. They've had 2 coaching changes between them.

Think NE is glad that Cleveland gave Billy the boot? Could he have replicated his success if he was kept in Cleveland?


Mike

I think those are prime examples, that it's not just about the coach. The Steelers are rolling to two SuperBowl wins under their new head coach Mike Tomlin in what? 3 years? Is he a better coach than Cowher?

I don't think so. I believe the organization finally got it together on all cylinders & Tomlin is reaping the benefits. Don't take that to mean that Tomlin isn't a good coach, he's definitely part of those winning ways.

I don't believe Belichick would have been able to have that same success in Cleveland. Totally different organization, with a lot of things that needs to be worked out, same thing here.

Bringing Belichick to Houston 5 years ago, doesn't mean we would have had the success the Patriots have had over the last 9 years. More success than we've had most likely.

But that's the way the "buddy system" works. Belichick was a "familiar" choice for the Patriots. That's why he got the job, not because of his "success" in Cleveland as a head coach.

Too much credit, too much blame.... that's the life of an NFL head coach.

 

[thunderkyss]

Maybe Bob should hire someone to edit what hes going to say before he says it so he doesnt sound like a moron. I mean really, panthers made it to the super bowl and jaguars to the Championship game and he thinks we are better franchise?

Perhaps you should take your own advice. We are a better franchise than both of them. We sell out our home games (up to date that is), we're the 9th most valuable franchise in the world, 6th in the NFl.

They have had more success on the field than we have, I won't argue that. McNair wouldn't & hasn't.

But we're definitely a better franchise.

 

[thunderkyss]

Charley Casserly and Dom Capers have been gone for 5 years. It's past time to stop blaming them for what's wrong with the Texans today. It's not the NFL's tougher expansion rules that are crux of the Texans problems. That was 9 years ago.

The problem is that the guy at the top doesn't know how to run the football side of a NFL franchise. Still. Sure, McNair's making money hand over fist. Mike Brown and the Bengals can do that. But producing winning teams on the field? Bob hasn't a clue.

What need to happen is for McNair to step away from the football side completely, much like the Cowboys original owner Clint Murchison had done. Hire the very best football guy available and let him run the organization in total. McNair would have one decision point Is the guy I hired to run the organization getting the job done? I don't know how McNair made his $millions (or $billions). But, it doesn't translate to winning in the NFL. Bob McNair needs to come to the realization that the problem is Bob McNair.

Wow... I completely & absolutely agree with this.

More than anything, I wanted McNair to hire a VP of football operations to do just this.

That didn't happen. I'm still hoping there is more to the Rick Smith story to come.

 

[Texecutioner]

Lot of the same tired excuses being thrown around for Mcnair in this thread. He can talk all the talk he wants and smile for the cameras when he says what he thinks fans want to hear, but his actions have been anything but the actions of an owner that seeks a championship as his bottom line. When he goes out and spends the cash on some real football execs that have a winning track record instead of saying that we're on the right track on a 6-10 season while he keeps the same HC and GM, then I might believe that his objectives and goals have changed as an owner. Until then, this is nothing but bait for season ticket holders that are probably slowly dropping off.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Perhaps you should take your own advice. We are a better franchise than both of them. We sell out our home games (up to date that is), we're the 9th most valuable franchise in the world, 6th in the NFl.

They have had more success on the field than we have, I won't argue that. McNair wouldn't & hasn't.

But we're definitely a better franchise.

thats like saying the Cubs are better than the White Sox because they sell more tickets and are worth more money. money does not a franchis make.

winning makes a franchise and we are bottom of the barrel when it comes to that. maybe detroit is below us but that is about it.

 

[Double Barrel]

I tell you what. Since HWWNBN somebody tell me a mistake that has set this team back half a decade. There isn't one.

Hiring a first time head coach and letting him pick an inexperienced GM and crappy DC, is a start.

According to a blog by Texans Chick, that first time DC produced this:

According to Football Outsiders stats, the Texans defense under Smith's tenure was ranked as follows:

2006: 31st
2007: 30th
2008: 29th

So they finally fire the guy. Do they bring in a bonafide PROVEN DC? Of course not. They bring in another FOG (friend of Gary) and first time DC, who proved to be even worse of a coach than his predecessor.

This is all on Bob.

So that's some big mistakes right there that has given us several years of mediocre results.

What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.

This is about setting a standard for excellence that becomes the be all/end all of running a football franchise. If the end goal is not putting the BEST available at every position in the organization, from GM, scouts, trainers, coaches, etc., then the results will not be an annual drive through the playoffs. If loyalty to employees is higher than the quest for excellence, you end up with perpetual mediocrity, otherwise known as the Houston Texans.

It is this aspect that separates the great teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, from team like the Texans. How many of these teams would hire Rick Smith as their GM? Short of the Lions, Bengals, or Browns, I'd be willing to bet not many.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm not buying the he's still learning on the job BS.

He's been learning on the job for a decade now. If McNair hasn't learned by now he never will. Or maybe profit is all that's important to him. After all it's season ticket renewal time.

The funny thing is the Texans are hitting us up for ticket $$$$ and chances are there is going to be a lockout led by one Robert C. McNair. But BoB will still have our $$$$ in his bank collecting interest. Along with the TV $$$$ that he's going to receive regardless if there's a lockout or not.

But yeah lets give BoB a pass because making 750 mil while learning on the job has been great for the fans so far hasn't it.

Lets face it this team is never going to be a winner as long as BoB is running it. Maybe one day Cal will take over and he will put winning 1st and foremost. But if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree the Texans will become the Lions,Bungles,Browns etc... of the NFL.

That's a scary thought.

 

[Dishman]

Perhaps you should take your own advice. We are a better franchise than both of them. We sell out our home games (up to date that is), we're the 9th most valuable franchise in the world, 6th in the NFl.

They have had more success on the field than we have, I won't argue that. McNair wouldn't & hasn't.

But we're definitely a better franchise.

And winning is really all that matters. Much more than any valuation of dollars or ranking in the NFL based on, well, anything aside from winning. I don't watch or root for the Texans because they make their owner a shitload of money.

I'm not so sure we are head-and-shoulders above those other teams.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

All you have to do is look at the 2006 draft .

1. Texans .... a mediocre team at best .
2. Saints ... Won a Super Bowl
3. Titans ... see Texans
4. Jets ... been to the last to AFC championships
5. Packers ... in the Super Bowl
6-12 ... stink
13. Ravens ... playoffs
14. Eagles playoffs

 

[Hervoyel]

Hiring a first time head coach and letting him pick an inexperienced GM and crappy DC, is a start.

According to a blog by Texans Chick, that first time DC produced this:



So they finally fire the guy. Do they bring in a bonafide PROVEN DC? Of course not. They bring in another FOG (friend of Gary) and first time DC, who proved to be even worse of a coach than his predecessor.

This is all on Bob.

So that's some big mistakes right there that has given us several years of mediocre results.

What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.

This is about setting a standard for excellence that becomes the be all/end all of running a football franchise. If the end goal is not putting the BEST available at every position in the organization, from GM, scouts, trainers, coaches, etc., then the results will not be an annual drive through the playoffs. If loyalty to employees is higher than the quest for excellence, you end up with perpetual mediocrity, otherwise known as the Houston Texans.

It is this aspect that separates the great teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, from team like the Texans. How many of these teams would hire Rick Smith as their GM? Short of the Lions, Bengals, or Browns, I'd be willing to bet not many.

Must spread rep but this is dead-on accurate. BONNNGGGG!

This is of Bob's making and he's still making the (Copyright 2002-2011, Houston Texans) "Same. Stupid. Mistakes." and what's worse is you can see them from a mile away.

You or I literally could have drafted better than the Texans did in their first 4 years by reading some draft magazines and going with the biggest names remaining on the board in each round. Not hindsight 20/20 ****, just picking the players who had some reasonable degree of name-recognition and calling it a day. I sure as hell couldn't have done worse using that method.

You or I literally could have hired a better head coach by spending a few days reading NFL.com to bone up on who was out there and not working AND we could have done that BOTH TIMES. Dom ****ing Capers? Gary ****ing Kubiak? Are you kidding me? These assistants Gary has foisted off on McNair as the best men for the job again and again are just the icing on the cake.

And we can see this as clear as day. We saw it when it happened but because we're all good little fans who close ranks and hope for the best we all cross our fingers and hope for the best. It doesn't change anything though. Bob's team is a bad joke that nobody laughs at and that everybody sees coming.

Since the day the wheels started obviously coming off of Dom Capers Texans in 2005 every move this team has made has been greeted with hope and trepidation because as bad as we want to believe we all know that there's something wrong with a team that needs help this badly and can only find guys like Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, and all their assorted cronies and "payback hires" to straighten it out. We need players and we draft projects. We need players and we sign junk free agents who underperform. We need players and we sign other teams castoffs from the street (and then watch them outperform our projects and junk free agents).

Every single person who spoke about the Ahman Green signing knew in the bottom of their hearts that the Texans had just thrown money away. Just flushed it down the toilet and in the process wasted two years trying to force that gimpy old has-been and his lousy stand-ins (Dayne & Brown) down our throats.

Our offense has played well (if inconsistently) which I don't mean to dismiss entirely but we hit on players so rarely I can't help but assume that we do so out of sheer dumb luck. What would Gary Kubiak have here today if Andre Johnson hadn't fallen to Charlie Casserly (and we're lucky he didn't find a way to screw that up) and Arian Foster hadn't been overlooked by every team in the NFL (including the Texans)?

What would the Texans be without those two players? Matt Schaub without AJ is nobody. Look how many times Gary couldn't find a running back in his first four seasons and tell me he just knew somehow that Foster was the answer. Now do it with a straight face.

McNair is in more dire need of proven football people than any owner in the NFL but he's committed to his boy Gary. They deserve each other because neither one ever seems to learn a damn thing. The thing is Texans fans don't deserve them.

 

[thunderkyss]

What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.

Defensively we've had this problem for quite some time. Way before Kubiak...

just an observation.

 

[thunderkyss]

You or I literally could have drafted better than the Texans did in their first 4 years by reading some draft magazines and going with the biggest names remaining on the board in each round. Not hindsight 20/20 ****, just picking the players who had some reasonable degree of name-recognition and calling it a day. I sure as hell couldn't have done worse using that method.

This is the definition of hindsight 20/20 ****. In last years draft alone, had we taken McCourty & the Patriots took Jackson, which one do you think would be more likely to go to the Pro Bowl? & it's more probably that the Houston Texans fans would still be cying about starting a rookie with no veteran mentor on the team.

Same thing going back to the 2002 draft, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here.

 

[Double Barrel]

Defensively we've had this problem for quite some time. Way before Kubiak...

just an observation.

Then what does that tell you?

It tells me that the owner does not hire the best qualified people for the jobs.

We do not know what qualifications he bases hiring coaches, trainers, and FO personnel, but it's certainly not the best qualified people available. That is quite obvious.

Vinny said a lot comes down to Bobby Grier, associate director of pro scouting. When he was fired by the Patriots, they started collecting a lot of talent and winning Super Bowls. Grier has been with the Texans since the beginning. Hmmmmm....

I always hoped that McNair would hire Scott Pioli as GM. Years go by and Kansas City finally did, and look how quickly things are turning around for them.

I assume McNair wants to win. But losing doesn't seem to bother him as much as other owners, because there's always next year!

 

[disaacks3]

Probably the best post I've read on here in a month.

And I think you wrote the one a month ago that I am referring to.

Every coach who comes to this franchise has to lie and say they can "get it done with the player(s) already here..." so that's been the most honest valuation of this team to date. Even Capers falls into this description, because he got screwed with a shitty expansion draft except for Gary Walker and Seth Payne (meh, throw in Aaron Glenn too. Three players out of the whole damn thing).

LOL. This team was screwed in the beginning, via a poor expansion draft pool, and now McNair (out of fear) is screwing himself. Brilliantly played. But hey, it's "not just about financial success. No sir."

McNair, shovel, manure, mushrooms. I'm noticing a pattern here.

Do you think if McNair heard Cowher was the best available, interviewed him, and Cowher said the Texans needed an overhaul that McNair wouldn't listen?

The reality is, there are some people who would scream for Cowher, some for Fischer, some for Gruden and some for Kubiak. If Mcnair hires any of them.. 75% would have an "I told you so" card in their pocket. If 3, 4 or 5 years into a Cowher, Gruden or Fisher campaign, we were 8-8 or 9-7 (which all three of those coaches finished SEVERAL times... 75% would carry their card in and say "haa... Mcnair is an *****". Mike

The difference is, McNair has NEVER gotten the "Best Coach avaialble", by anyone's standard. Even w/ Capers, he got the "Best guy to shepherd an expansion team" at BEST.

While 2nd-guessing is old hat for message boards, it's a hell of a lot easier to defend the guy with a great track record. (a reason why hiring Wade as DC is hard to argue)

 

[Hervoyel]

This is the definition of hindsight 20/20 ****. In last years draft alone, had we taken McCourty & the Patriots took Jackson, which one do you think would be more likely to go to the Pro Bowl? & it's more probably that the Houston Texans fans would still be cying about starting a rookie with no veteran mentor on the team.

Same thing going back to the 2002 draft, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here.

No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 ****, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

 

[thunderkyss]

You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team...

Let's keep them above the waist..... okay?

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... .

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

Detroit did the same thing, & their guy wasn't even good looking.



That doesn't really help my argument does it

 

[houstonspartan]

No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 ****, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

Dude, you have to learn to disregard Thunder's posts. They are always middle-of-the-road comments that he says to make us THINK he's being open minded, when in truth they're apologistic musings of why the Texans are great.

 

[Hervoyel]

Let's keep them above the waist..... okay?


Detroit did the same thing, & their guy wasn't even good looking.



That doesn't really help my argument does it

They didn't actually do the same thing. They at least had a previously existing offensive line not populated by expansion draft picks and rookies.

Ok, granted their line was made up of mostly Detroit Lions draft picks which could arguably be considered almost as bad but still, I assert that Detroit had more business drafting a QB than the Texans did.

I seriously believe that a majority of casual fans given a minimal amount of time to prepare could have drafted no worse and quite possibly much better than the 2002-2005 Texans "brain trust".

You knock the 2002 draft right out of the park by taking Peppers over Carr. That one pick all by itself turns a resounding "F" into at least a passing grade even if all the other picks stayed the same. Taking the Miami(FL) RB over Jabar Gaffney not only recovers the pick we wasted on Gaffney, it also keeps us from throwing a 2003 second round pick away in a desperation move for Tony Hollings. I have never understood the decision to take Carr & Gaffney over Peppers and Portis. I (along with plenty of others) didn't like it at the time but did we ***** and moan and raise hell? Of course not. We were all one big happy family following Bob around and listening to talking heads pondering whether or not this was going to be the best expansion franchise of all time. I understand that you think it's revisionist history to point to it now but I remember clearly being concerned that we weren't doing exactly what Bob/Charlie/Dom said we'd do (build the lines first - referring to the Peppers pick here). I remember thinking "Portis is right there! TAKE HIM!"

I remember a lot of that kind of thing. Stuff like "Wilfork is right there! TAKE HIM!", "What in the hell do we need a left handed rookie QB for?", and who could forget "You traded the entire heart of our draft first day for Jason WHO?"

My personal favorite though was "DERRICK JOHNSON! HE'S THERE! WAIT, WHAT? TRADED DOWN? FUUUUUUUUUUU!"

My point isn't that you or I can look back at these drafts and find better players knowing what we know now. My point is that we knew the Texans were screwing the pooch then. We just didn't face that because to do so meant we were being negative and disloyal.

Emperor. Right over there. Naked.

I'm ashamed to say I saw he didn't have any clothes on at the time and made myself believe otherwise.

I'm afraid you're still trying to convince people that he must have something on.

 

[thunderkyss]

nevermind

 

[thunderkyss]

My point isn't that you or I can look back at these drafts and find better players knowing what we know now. My point is that we knew the Texans were screwing the pooch then. We just didn't face that because to do so meant we were being negative and disloyal.

Emperor. Right over there. Naked.

I'm ashamed to say I saw he didn't have any clothes on at the time and made myself believe otherwise.

I'm afraid you're still trying to convince people that he must have something on.

My bad..... if this is your point, I completely understand. Good point.

 

[thunderkyss]

nvm

 

[GP]

I assume McNair wants to win. But losing doesn't seem to bother him as much as other owners, because there's always next year!

AND...other owners embrace him and dry his tears after the Ravens almost-come-from-behind-win-that-ends-as-a-loss game.

Side note: Herv is tearing the hell out of this forum this week. I mean, he's opened up a huge lead and the nearest horse is 20-something lengths behind him.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I almost fell over when I saw the comparison of the Texans' choice of Carr at #1 with Detroit's choice. I guess we have now escalated our sights to comparing ourselves to the "established NFL elite".........I guess.

 

[GP]

Next year, Bob will go on record as saying that it will be Intergalactic Championship or bust.

The guy keeps raising the stakes with chips he doesn't have.

 

[Dishman]

Next year, Bob will go on record as saying that it will be Intergalactic Championship or bust.

The guy keeps raising the stakes with chips he doesn't have.

If this comes true then your signature could be considered prophetic.

 

[thunderkyss]

I almost fell over when I saw the comparison of the Texans' choice of Carr at #1 with Detroit's choice. I guess we have now escalated our sights to comparing ourselves to the "established NFL elite".........I guess.

It was meant to be sarcastic.... He said "no one in their right mind." After my Detroit comment I posted some fine print to convey the sarcasm.

Sorry you missed it, I'll try harder.

 

[GP]

If this comes true then your signature could be considered prophetic.

HA! You're right.

It is a prophecy of our destiny. We will rule outer space.

 

[Mr teX]

No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 ****, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

I disagree there hervy. For 1, Carr was thought to be a top pick to begin with.. 2, There's a reason qb's bust more than any other position in the 1st round & that's b/c it's the most important position on the field & franchise qb's are tough to come by...but if you get 1...you're set for 10 years. For those few reasons alone i have to believe that most any other team regardless of whether or not they were an expansion franchise or not would've done the same thing we did & took Carr. Were there some who would've taken peppers over carr? Of Course, but the allure of possibly landing the franchise qb i think would've been too much for any team in need of a qb to resist.


Starting him from day 1 when it was apparent we couldn't protect him on the other hand......that's another story.

 

[Texanmike02]

I disagree there hervy. For 1, Carr was thought to be a top pick to begin with.. 2, There's a reason qb's bust more than any other position in the 1st round & that's b/c it's the most important position on the field & franchise qb's are tough to come by...but if you get 1...you're set for 10 years. For those few reasons alone i have to believe that most any other team regardless of whether or not they were an expansion franchise or not would've done the same thing we did & took Carr. Were there some who would've taken peppers over carr? Of Course, but the allure of possibly landing the franchise qb i think would've been too much for any team in need of a qb to resist.


Starting him from day 1 when it was apparent we couldn't protect him on the other hand......that's another story.

You make a very valid point. QB is the only position on the field where you can't really afford to have 2 or 3 players that excel at one thing. Unless you have a Mike Vick or maybe the wildcat you must find one guy that does everything. You know you can bring in a passrushing specialist.. or a run guy in certain situations... but you can't bring in a deep ball specialist.

Sometimes reading this thread you get the impression that Bob is out there wondering how he can put a bad team on the field and still make money. I doubt there is anyone in the NFL who wants to put a bad product on the field. The truth of the matter is everyone is trying to build a winner. There are 32 teams that are influenced by forces mostly outside their control. In essence you are competing with 32 other puzzle builers for the same pieces to build your own version of a puzzle. And honestly the analogy doesn't make much sense becaue building a football team is complicated. Its just frustrating to watch people talk about Bob like he put more money than you or I will see in our lives out.. and he set out to try and lose games and still make money.



Mike

 

[TheCD]

What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those

Are you strictly speaking about FAs or draft picks, too?

Matt Schaub? Has he not improved since being here? Andre is the same player he was when he was drafted? Kevin Walter? Dominick Davis during his playing days? Was Steve Slaton not improved before he had the neck injury? DeMeco? Zac Diles?

What constitutes improvement? I see players all over the league have roller coaster years. I just want to get on the same page here. I am in no way saying the team is doing an excellent job in terms of scouting, but I think that when they find talent, that talent definitely improves. I feel our WRs have probably the best coaching in the league, but that doesn't mean they are the most talented (with the exception of AJ of course). Our o-line definitely improved in the running game this year, is that not in the same category you're using?

I really feel our lack of talent comes from scouting. I think the coaching is there, and it seems that we always either try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or find a marginal talent that would be great as a backup, coach him up a little and expect him to be the answer to that positions glaring needs.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Are you strictly speaking about FAs or draft picks, too?

Matt Schaub? Has he not improved since being here? Andre is the same player he was when he was drafted? Kevin Walter? Dominick Davis during his playing days? Was Steve Slaton not improved before he had the neck injury? DeMeco? Zac Diles?

What constitutes improvement? I see players all over the league have roller coaster years. I just want to get on the same page here. I am in no way saying the team is doing an excellent job in terms of scouting, but I think that when they find talent, that talent definitely improves. I feel our WRs have probably the best coaching in the league, but that doesn't mean they are the most talented (with the exception of AJ of course). Our o-line definitely improved in the running game this year, is that not in the same category you're using?

I really feel our lack of talent comes from scouting. I think the coaching is there, and it seems that we always either try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or find a marginal talent that would be great as a backup, coach him up a little and expect him to be the answer to that positions glaring needs.

what makes you say 'the coaching is there'?

we have had 5 years and it has clearly shown us the coaching is NOT there. Nothing coaching-wise shows us that the coaching is there. Some is there, as in yeah the offense is ok.

 

[TheCD]

what makes you say 'the coaching is there'?

we have had 5 years and it has clearly shown us the coaching is NOT there. Nothing coaching-wise shows us that the coaching is there. Some is there, as in yeah the offense is ok.

I would say that the offense is more than ok. I am with you in certain areas that are coaching is deficient in, but I think it is more than disingenuous to say our coaching is not there. If our coaching was that bad, then there wouldn't be any hope of us being competitive in as many games as we were throughout the year. However, the coaching could definitely use an upgrade.

 

[steelbtexan]

5-7 four yrs in a row,

Yeah BoB is committed to winning a championship. LOL

 

[Tailgate]

Committed to winning a championship and knowing how to do so are two different things.

I honestly do not doubt his commitment.

 

[steelbtexan]

Committed to winning a championship and knowing how to do so are two different things.

I honestly do not doubt his commitment.

History says otherwise, what has BoB done to make you not question his Commitment.

He says a championship is all that matters. The same week that season ticket renewals are going out to his season ticket holders. Coincedence, I think not.

BoB cant be this bad at putting a terrible product on the field after a decade of owning this team. If BoB was as dumb as you make him out to be there's no way his other businesses would have been successful enough to be able to have the $$$$ to buy the team in the 1st place.

It's all part of the con BoB puts on the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS.

I know you wont change your mind. if 4 straight 5-7 starts to the season and not firing Gary isn't enough to make you realize that your being conned nothing will.

Koolaid is good.

 

[Double Barrel]

Matt Schaub? Has he not improved since being here? Andre is the same player he was when he was drafted? Kevin Walter? Dominick Davis during his playing days? Was Steve Slaton not improved before he had the neck injury? DeMeco? Zac Diles?

Schaub I'll grant you. And that should be the case with a HC who was a former NFL QB, QB coach, and OC.

But Walter? I like the guy, but what constitutes improvement? His numbers have dropped every year since the 2007 season.

How about Jacoby Jones? Dude has definitely not improved, and it could be argued that he's regressing.

AJ is a beast. Dude was a beast when he got here. He actually made HWWNBN look like a somewhat competent QB. He's the kind of HoF player that would just improve on his own, regardless of team or coaches. Legendary players have a habit of being that way.

DD? One good year. Perhaps better trainers could have helped improve his performance after his injury? Who knows, pure speculation, but you can't argue that he improved.

Slaton? Dude, please. He can't even be a good kick returner, much less an average RB right now. How many teams would have him start? Or backup? He’s barely third on our roster, and he’s a healthy Tate away from being jettisoned altogether.

How about Cushing? Shell of who he was as a rookie. The same could be said about Ryans, a Rookie of the Year that has not lived up to the potential that most folks have seen in him. Still a solid player, but not reaching the greatness that was predicted and expected of him.

Heck, you can pretty much take anyone from the defense and make a solid case that they regressed in 2010. It's not hard to do when the D is ranked at historical lows.

We can play this game all day, though. And that's the point. A case can be made, either way, some more convincing for either side depending on the player. But, it is clear that it is not such a huge improvement that it's a no brainer. The fact that it can be legitimately argued from both sides supports my point.

 

[Wolf]

I'll have to give the offensive side their due.
how much turnover has there been since Kubiak?

Calhoun, sherman, shanahan,Dennison?

and their has been some stability however the offense was sporadic.

Defensively.the Texans tried to go cheap (well did) the Texans have never had a strong figure on that side of the ball... (I have no idea what Ray Rhodes job really was) ... I don't know what Kubiak was thinking there.

His buddy system on the offense has been good, too bad the buddy system on the defensive side has countered that.

here to change with Wade coming in !
f
and for whatever reason.. when players come to the Texans, after their first year here, their play goes backwards ... yeah, that is coaching

 

[thunderkyss]

I know you wont change your mind. if 4 straight 5-7 starts to the season and not firing Gary isn't enough to make you realize that your being conned nothing will.

Koolaid is good.

That's just stupid.

 

[steelbtexan]

That's just stupid.

What's stupid?

If a HC goes 5-7 four yrs in a row and doesn't get fired. What will get him fired? I refuse to believe it is taking Billionaire BoB over a decade to figure out how to run a championship quality football team.

After four 5-7 starts in a row winning a championship isn't a priority for BoB and probably never was. Look at the HC's and their staffs that they had. That tells me winning isn't that important to BoB. If it was Kubiak would've been fired after the 2009 cupcake schedule/Browns' fiasco.

The marketing arm is all that BoB cares about. Or Larry Johnson would've been a Texan. Schobel really wanted to play for the Texans in 2010 and the Texans didn't sign him. Why? $$$$ The Texans had a need for a pass rusher and Brady said he was glad that Schobel retired because of all of the pressure Schobel put on him. I dont believe for a moment that Schobel was in bad enough shape that he couldn't help the Texans historically bad defense. But BoB believed he wasn't worth the $$$$ or he didn't want to pay the $$$$. Oh well that's water under the bridge maybe BoB has changed his ways. But the burden of proof is on BoB to put his $$$ where his mouth is and hire the best AC's and get the best players to help his team win as possible. Otherwise BoB's just blowing smoke up his fanbase a** again this yr. (Remember last yrs playoff or bust thing that BoB was touting last yr) Just to sell a few more tickets.


For all of the positive stats you put out. I can give you 2 stats that matter the most 5-7 and 0 playoff appearances.

TK, do you think that it's a coincedence that BoB starts talking about a SB the week ticket renewals come due? Come on your not that niave are you?

 

[thunderkyss]

What's stupid?

If a HC goes 5-7 four yrs in a row and doesn't get fired. What will get him fired?

That does not define a con. You make it sound as if that's the plan. "bwahahahahahahahha
We'll go 5-7 over the first twelve games .....

and collect one... hundred... billion dollars."


You don't think Dr. Evil would equate winning more games with bringing in more money?

TK, do you think that it's a coincedence that BoB starts talking about a SB the week ticket renewals come due? Come on your not that niave are you?

You do know I've got over three months to pay up don't you?

 

[JB]

The marketing arm is all that BoB cares about. Or Larry Johnson would've been a Texan. Schobel really wanted to play for the Texans in 2010 and the Texans didn't sign him. Why?

Larry Johnson? Really? What did he do this year? And Schobel was so out of shape it would have been a long time until he was ready to play. C'mon Man! Come up with something better than that!

 

[thunderkyss]

Larry Johnson? Really? What did he do this year? And Schobel was so out of shape it would have been a long time until he was ready to play. C'mon Man! Come up with something better than that!

There is no doubt in my mind, had we picked up Larry Johnson at our bye in 2009, the Texans would have made the play-offs.

No doubt in my mind.

 

[JB]

There is no doubt in my mind, had we picked up Larry Johnson at our bye in 2009, the Texans would have made the play-offs.

No doubt in my mind.

That's fine. But what did you see out of Larry Johnson in 2009 or 2010 to support that? Lets see... after he was signed by Cinci he gained 204 yds. Wow!

2010? He gained a whopping 2 yards! Yeah, big difference there? And what happened with him after he was cut by the Redskins after game 2? Who did he play for?

 

[steelbtexan]

That's fine. But what did you see out of Larry Johnson in 2009 or 2010 to support that? Lets see... after he was signed by Cinci he gained 204 yds. Wow!

2010? He gained a whopping 2 yards! Yeah, big difference there? And what happened with him after he was cut by the Redskins after game 2? Who did he play for?

Johnson ran for over 100 yds in a couple for the Bengals in 2009.

We disagreed last yr on Schobel.

Nothing has changed.

I do respect your opinion though.

 

[JB]

Johnson ran for over 100 yds in a couple for the Bengals in 2009.

We disagreed last yr on Schobel.

Nothing has changed.

I do respect your opinion though.

I respect yours also. That's what it's all about.

 

[Mr teX]

I'll have to give the offensive side their due.
how much turnover has there been since Kubiak?

Calhoun, sherman, shanahan,Dennison?

and their has been some stability however the offense was sporadic.

Defensively.the Texans tried to go cheap (well did) the Texans have never had a strong figure on that side of the ball... (I have no idea what Ray Rhodes job really was) ... I don't know what Kubiak was thinking there.

His buddy system on the offense has been good, too bad the buddy system on the defensive side has countered that.

here to change with Wade coming in !
f
and for whatever reason.. when players come to the Texans, after their first year here, their play goes backwards ... yeah, that is coaching

This isn't something exclusive to players on the texans roster & coaching staff though, it happens to players all over the league & its usually b/c said player gets exposed.

It happens to players all over the league, for winning & losing teams, its just myopic of us as texans fans to think that only our players regress... Bottom line is, guys who can play will show up or hold relatively steady, guys who can't will eventually get exposed.

 

[HuttoKarl]

Last offseason it was "Playoffs or bust"....how'd that work out, stupid Texans front office?