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Being that we’re the worst team in the AFC South, are we or should we be happy for the Jaguars?

Mr teX said:
That #1 ranking is always suspect though. You can get it a variety of ways but if you really watch teams, you can see who's a legit defense & who's not. So every time folks talk about us having the #1 defense & having that #1 defensive ranking, The question everyone needs to ask is whether or not it can hold up for 4 qtrs against the likes of a qb of a Brady, Brees or Rodgers b/c eventually you're going to have to go thru at least 1 qb of that caliber to get to a SB. If you can't definitively say yes, then don't believe the hype.........Too many here did back in 2011; i had my reservations though.
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Yep, this is true. And Bob McNair appeared to have reservations in 2012, too. That's when he publically said they were soft and brought Ed Reed and his gigantic balls to Houston. Unfortunately, they were too big (and too old) for Houston and we all know what happened the next season. ;)
 
Double Barrel said:
No dispute about Wentz, but that does not disprove my point. Three out of the four teams last weekend had mediocre QBs with great defenses.

Unfortunately, the truism of your second point is lost on our team. The Texans have had had no. 1 defenses with two different HCs and could never get past the 2nd round.
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You need good teams overall, not just a good QB.

Teams that can build good, complete rosters usually are smart enough to find good QBs. As we see, some teams keep winning without good QBs because the rest of the team is good.

I don't think a team has won the Super Bowl with a great QB carrying a garbage team.

The whole "spend all it takes to get a QB and worry about everything else later" strategy is actually pretty dumb.
 
TheKDog said:
You need good teams overall, not just a good QB.

Teams that can build good, complete rosters usually are smart enough to find good QBs. As we see, some teams keep winning without good QBs because the rest of the team is good.

I don't think a team has won the Super Bowl with a great QB carrying a garbage team.

The whole "spend all it takes to get a QB and worry about everything else later" strategy is actually pretty dumb.
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The only one that I can think of in recent memory is Peyton Manning's first SB win with the Colts. That defense was not too good (that was the year the Texans finally beat the Colts on Christmas Eve with David Carr). It was only in the playoffs that the Colts defense started playing better, but Manning willed that team to win.

But yeah, generally, championships are team accomplishments for the most part.

Unfortunately, some of the Texans best defenses were wasted in the playoffs by QB scrubs. Yates, Hoyer, Brock. *blech*
 
TheKDog said:
You need good teams overall, not just a good QB.

Teams that can build good, complete rosters usually are smart enough to find good QBs. As we see, some teams keep winning without good QBs because the rest of the team is good.

I don't think a team has won the Super Bowl with a great QB carrying a garbage team.

The whole "spend all it takes to get a QB and worry about everything else later" strategy is actually pretty dumb.
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Finally someone who gets it. I'll just add that strength of schedule matters too. 1 year ago the Eagles, Vikes, Rams & Jags were all either 3rd or 4th place teams in their respective divisions. They all drew schedules accordingly and of course this year 3 out of 4 of them were in their respective conference championship games, & 1 is going to the SB. About the only team this doesn't seem to matter to is the Pats who draw a 1st place schedule every damn year & still keep rolling.
 
Double Barrel said:
The only one that I can think of in recent memory is Peyton Manning's first SB win with the Colts. That defense was not too good (that was the year the Texans finally beat the Colts on Christmas Eve with David Carr). It was only in the playoffs that the Colts defense started playing better, but Manning willed that team to win.

But yeah, generally, championships are team accomplishments for the most part.

Unfortunately, some of the Texans best defenses were wasted in the playoffs by QB scrubs. Yates, Hoyer, Brock. *blech*
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And the defense had been so good that the offense only needed to be average.

But the offense could never get out of the bottom 10.

Fitz was actually above average his first year here, but he was bizarrely discarded for Mallet and Hoyer.
 
TheKDog said:
You need good teams overall, not just a good QB.

Teams that can build good, complete rosters usually are smart enough to find good QBs. As we see, some teams keep winning without good QBs because the rest of the team is good.

I don't think a team has won the Super Bowl with a great QB carrying a garbage team.

The whole "spend all it takes to get a QB and worry about everything else later" strategy is actually pretty dumb.
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You should build the roster 1st then trade whatever it takes to get your franchise QB.

Or you will get your franchise QB hurt behind a crappy OL.
 
Mr teX said:
Finally someone who gets it. I'll just add that strength of schedule matters too. 1 year ago the Eagles, Vikes, Rams & Jags were all either 3rd or 4th place teams in their respective divisions. They all drew schedules accordingly and of course this year 3 out of 4 of them were in their respective conference championship games, & 1 is going to the SB. About the only team this doesn't seem to matter to is the Pats who draw a 1st place schedule every damn year & still keep rolling.
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They drew two games different than the other teams in their division. That's all. Two games in schedule difference does not account for the Jags or Rams 7 games improvement or really the Eagles 5 game improvement. The last place schedule went out when the Texans came into the league. It is not that big of factor any more.
 
dream_team said:
I disagree. Get your good QB whenever you can. Good QBs are so rare that when you have a chance to get one, take it!
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That's true... but rarely are rookies franchise level from the get go. Watsonesque performances are extremely rare. Mostly unless you have the first overall you won't get a chance at one in the draft and they aren't traded. So better to build your roster while awaiting that exceedingly rare opportunity. Texans just did so bad at building the roster that when they did find that gem the team around him was so bad (OL) that he had no shot at staying upright. Now the last 5 years of bad decisions are coming home to roost. Hopefully it won't take 10 years to recover
 
JB said:
That's true... but rarely are rookies franchise level from the get go. Watsonesque performances are extremely rare. Mostly unless you have the first overall you won't get a chance at one in the draft and they aren't traded. So better to build your roster while awaiting that exceedingly rare opportunity. Texans just did so bad at building the roster that when they did find that gem the team around him was so bad (OL) that he had no shot at staying upright. Now the last 5 years of bad decisions are coming home to roost. Hopefully it won't take 10 years to recover
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Give me a 2010 reset.

Kubes eventully got sacrificed.

This time McNair went with the HC over the GM. Hopefully he got it right. If he did good times are ahead. If not it's more of the same. It all comes down to hopefully the McNair's get lucky this time.

More importantly, hopefully he lets the people he hired to do their jobs do their jobs.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Give me a 2010 reset.

Kubes eventully got sacrificed.

This time McNair went with the HC over the GM. Hopefully he got it right. If he did good times are ahead. If not it's more of the same. It all comes down to hopefully the McNair's get lucky this time.

More importantly, hopefully he lets the people he hired to do their jobs do their jobs.
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If Rick Smith had been a good GM, he would have prepared for Schaub's decline by finding a young QB for Kubiak to develop and have ready when he needed him. Maybe 2-14 in 2013 would never have happened.

And with what we see in great defenses and solid running games with average QBs in this year's playoffs, they could have been prepared to go back to the playoffs year after year.

If we're honest about, O'Brien coasted on the defense that Wade built for his first three seasons by picking a good DC to take Wade's place. O'Brien's offenses certainly were not going to take the team to the playoffs.

That's all history, though. Now we look forward to seeing what O'Brien can do with a GM that shares his vision, and having Watson positioned to run the offense from the beginning of the season will be revealing about how good of a HC O'Brien really is at the end of the day.
 
Double Barrel said:
If Rick Smith had been a good GM, he would have prepared for Schaub's decline by finding a young QB for Kubiak to develop and have ready when he needed him. Maybe 2-14 in 2013 would never have happened.
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Prepared for Schaub’s decline? He was still relatively young. Who knew the decline was coming so quickly?

Are the Pats prepared right now for Brady’s decline? Are the Pack ready for Rodgers decline? Saints with Brees?

It’s hard enough to find one good QB, but you think Rick should have found two?

BTW, at that time, we did have two young developmental QBs on the roster. TJ and Case.
 
dream_team said:
Prepared for Schaub’s decline? He was still relatively young. Who knew the decline was coming so quickly?

Are the Pats prepared right now for Brady’s decline? Are the Pack ready for Rodgers decline? Saints with Brees?

It’s hard enough to find one good QB, but you think Rick should have found two?

BTW, at that time, we did have two young developmental QBs on the roster. TJ and Case.
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Like 'cak said, CnD's diagnosis was spot on, even without the detailed medical records available to the Texans staff. He called it and nailed the outcome.

Rick did not find Schaub. He was a gofer for Kubiak, who picked Schaub when he got here.

And the Pats draft QBs. They just traded two of them this last year. I would not doubt if they draft another one in 2018. As far as Rodgers and Brees, have they had lisfranc surgery and been predicted to decline? That's kind of the point here.

If you consider a 5h rounder and a UDFA to be preparing for Schaub's decline, we will just have to agree to disagree. Neither of them had high ceilings when they were on the Texans.

People were clamoring for the Texans to draft a QB in this forum when CnD provided his insight into Schaub's injury. It's not like it was some secret. The Texans are just risk averse to using high picks on a QB, which they have only done twice in 16 seasons.

Thankfully, Rick did his job great last draft with Watson. Ironic that it ended up saving O'Brien's job.
 
Double Barrel said:
Like 'cak said, CnD's diagnosis was spot on, even without the detailed medical records available to the Texans staff. He called it and nailed the outcome.

Rick did not find Schaub. He was a gofer for Kubiak, who picked Schaub when he got here.

And the Pats draft QBs. They just traded two of them this last year. I would not doubt if they draft another one in 2018. As far as Rodgers and Brees, have they had lisfranc surgery and been predicted to decline? That's kind of the point here.

If you consider a 5h rounder and a UDFA to be preparing for Schaub's decline, we will just have to agree to disagree. Neither of them had high ceilings when they were on the Texans.

People were clamoring for the Texans to draft a QB in this forum when CnD provided his insight into Schaub's injury. It's not like it was some secret. The Texans are just risk averse to using high picks on a QB, which they have only done twice in 16 seasons.

Thankfully, Rick did his job great last draft with Watson. Ironic that it ended up saving O'Brien's job.
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Russell Wilson, Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins were all taken after we drafted Brandon Brooks...haha Too bad none of them were rated high enough to be a franchise QB and after Luck and RGIII that year, nobody else was talking about QBs. Tennehill was taken in the mid first I think.
 
Double Barrel said:
If you consider a 5h rounder and a UDFA to be preparing for Schaub's decline, we will just have to agree to disagree. Neither of them had high ceilings when they were on the Texans.
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Schaub gets Lisfranc, so you want them to draft the highest rated QB they can in the next draft? Well that would have been our buddy Brock Os. Awesome!

Just because they had a 5th rounder & UDFA doesn’t mean they weren’t preparing for a possible Schaub decline. One of them being a guy a lot of people wish we still had on our team.

BTW, when was getting Lisfranc a death sentence in football? Leveon got it and he just had one of his best seasons in his career.
 
dream_team said:
Schaub gets Lisfranc, so you want them to draft the highest rated QB they can in the next draft? Well that would have been our buddy Brock Os. Awesome!

Just because they had a 5th rounder & UDFA doesn’t mean they weren’t preparing for a possible Schaub decline. One of them being a guy a lot of people wish we still had on our team.

BTW, when was getting Lisfranc a death sentence in football? Leveon got it and he just had one of his best seasons in his career.
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What were they doing to prepare? Look at the QB's Ricky picked and where they were picked under both the Kubiak/BOB regimes.

Depending on how bad the Lisfranc injury is it certainly can be a career killer. I remember how a Lisfranc killed one of my favorite RB's career. (Bryant Westbrook)
 
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Uncle Rico said:
I wish we still had Brandon Brooks.
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Me too

I was one of the biggest Brooks supporters and wanted the Texans to draft him. Brooks was a big dude that could move and played with one of the meanest streaks I've seen.

I was OK with letting him walk, because I thought due to stomach issues he would never reach his potential. Philly's Dr.'s figured out that the cause of his stomach problems were due to anxiety issues. They treated those issues and now Brooks reached his potential. (Pro Bowler who hasn't allowed a sack all season.)
 
I'm not going to read this whole thread, But to answer your question... I've never understood why people hate on anyone or anything for no reason other than just to hate. Seems like an awful waste of time and energy.
JMO
 
I'm not going to read this whole thread, But to answer your question... I've never understood why people hate on anyone or anything for no reason other than just to hate. Seems like an awful waste of time and energy.
JMO
 
dream_team said:
Schaub gets Lisfranc, so you want them to draft the highest rated QB they can in the next draft? Well that would have been our buddy Brock Os. Awesome!

Just because they had a 5th rounder & UDFA doesn’t mean they weren’t preparing for a possible Schaub decline. One of them being a guy a lot of people wish we still had on our team.

BTW, when was getting Lisfranc a death sentence in football? Leveon got it and he just had one of his best seasons in his career.
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Was Brock the "highest rated QB" on the Texans draft board?

I never said when and where they should draft a QB, but rather just not be scared to use a higher pick on one. It's already a crap shoot, and the lower you take a QB, the higher the odds against them being a franchise QB.

People only wish Case was on our team NOW because of this season. The majority of fans, as well as the Texans and Rams (and Vikings), recognized what the what Case was: a career backup. One season on a great team is just that. Dude was 0-8 for a Texans coach that is widely considered a QB whisperer. 20/20 hindsight and all that jazz.

As far as your "Lisfranc a death sentence", I'm not a medical professional. But, the man on this board that predicted it, and has a very high batting average on these matters, IS a medical professional. He nailed it. Take it up with him if it is an issue for you, but be prepared to lose unless you have a medical degree and can prove that you have an idea of what you are talking about. He was talking specifically about Schaub's situation, not any given NFL player. Quit the strawman.
 
Double Barrel said:
Was Brock the "highest rated QB" on the Texans draft board?

I never said when and where they should draft a QB, but rather just not be scared to use a higher pick on one. It's already a crap shoot, and the lower you take a QB, the higher the odds against them being a franchise QB.

People only wish Case was on our team NOW because of this season. The majority of fans, as well as the Texans and Rams (and Vikings), recognized what the what Case was: a career backup. One season on a great team is just that. Dude was 0-8 for a Texans coach that is widely considered a QB whisperer. 20/20 hindsight and all that jazz.

As far as your "Lisfranc a death sentence", I'm not a medical professional. But, the man on this board that predicted it, and has a very high batting average on these matters, IS a medical professional. He nailed it. Take it up with him if it is an issue for you, but be prepared to lose unless you have a medical degree and can prove that you have an idea of what you are talking about. He was talking specifically about Schaub's situation, not any given NFL player. Quit the strawman.
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Those are all fair points, just stating that because they didn't draft guys high doesn't mean the team doesn't think highly of the player. I bring up Brock because he was drafted in the 2nd round after Schaub got hurt. Or even trade up a few spots to take Brandon Weeden instead of Mercilus. I assume 1st or 2nd round is high enough to please you, but in reality, wouldn't have helped at all.

Keep in mind TJ just helped the team get into the playoffs and even won a playoff game as a rookie. People were pretty high on the guy, even those outside of Houston. There could have been discussions to draft Weeden or Brock, in case Schaub doesn't pull through, but Smith/Kubiak could have responded with "I think TJ is just as good as those guys." And quite frankly, that would have been right if they said that.
 
Double Barrel said:
Like 'cak said, CnD's diagnosis was spot on, even without the detailed medical records available to the Texans staff. He called it and nailed the outcome.

Rick did not find Schaub. He was a gofer for Kubiak, who picked Schaub when he got here.

And the Pats draft QBs. They just traded two of them this last year. I would not doubt if they draft another one in 2018. As far as Rodgers and Brees, have they had lisfranc surgery and been predicted to decline? That's kind of the point here.

If you consider a 5h rounder and a UDFA to be preparing for Schaub's decline, we will just have to agree to disagree. Neither of them had high ceilings when they were on the Texans.

People were clamoring for the Texans to draft a QB in this forum when CnD provided his insight into Schaub's injury. It's not like it was some secret. The Texans are just risk averse to using high picks on a QB, which they have only done twice in 16 seasons.

Thankfully, Rick did his job great last draft with Watson. Ironic that it ended up saving O'Brien's job.
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I thought Kubes went after Schaub during his 2nd off season with the Texans. Now, as to who's idea it was to go after him, I always thought it was Kubes, but I don't know how much input Rick had in that decision.

Also, can you please refresh my memory about the injury to Schaub that caused his demise. I can only remember him having that foot injury (Lisfranc?), having part of his ear bit off in the Denver game, and getting kicked in the nads by Suh. Did he have a shoulder injury in 2012 or 2013?
 
Insideop said:
I thought Kubes went after Schaub during his 2nd off season with the Texans. Now, as to who's idea it was to go after him, I always thought it was Kubes, but I don't know how much input Rick had in that decision.

Also, can you please refresh my memory about the injury to Schaub that caused his demise. I can only remember him having that foot injury (Lisfranc?), having part of his ear bit off in the Denver game, and getting kicked in the nads by Suh. Did he have a shoulder injury in 2012 or 2013?
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Yep, Kubiak wanted Schaub. They had met and played golf to see if their personalities gelled, iirc. After that, Smith made the deal, but it was always known it was Kubiak's choice.

And I think it was the Lisfranc that CnD predicted would kill his career. He's got a very detailed series of posts about it on this forum. He was so spot on that some folks jokingly call him Dr. Doom, but only because his perspectives are so informed and objective based on limited information, while the Texans PR would always spin peaches and cream. I really dig that we've got him on this forum, both for his medical perspectives as well as he's a really cool dude. I've sent many folks here to read his takes. He truly is an asset to our fan base.
 
dream_team said:
Prepared for Schaub’s decline? He was still relatively young. Who knew the decline was coming so quickly?

Are the Pats prepared right now for Brady’s decline? Are the Pack ready for Rodgers decline? Saints with Brees?

It’s hard enough to find one good QB, but you think Rick should have found two?

BTW, at that time, we did have two young developmental QBs on the roster. TJ and Case.
Click to expand...

dream_team said:
Schaub gets Lisfranc, so you want them to draft the highest rated QB they can in the next draft? Well that would have been our buddy Brock Os. Awesome!

Just because they had a 5th rounder & UDFA doesn’t mean they weren’t preparing for a possible Schaub decline. One of them being a guy a lot of people wish we still had on our team.

BTW, when was getting Lisfranc a death sentence in football? Leveon got it and he just had one of his best seasons in his career.
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The Texans got Schaub and then never seriously considered anything other than Schaub ever again. Alex Brink in the 7th and Yates in the 5th. That's it.

The Patriots, the team with the GOAT, in that same time frame, drafted 4 QBs 3rd round or higher. Even if they never used them, like it turned out, those QBs are commodities that can land you more picks. This franchise never thought to do things like that.

Whether Schaub would have remained serviceable or fallen off the map like he did, isn't the point. Never having a plan for life after Schaub, even if you never had to execute that plan like the Pats haven't had to do, is where the powers that be failed here.
 
Speedy said:
The Texans got Schaub and then never seriously considered anything other than Schaub ever again. Alex Brink in the 7th and Yates in the 5th. That's it.

The Patriots, the team with the GOAT, in that same time frame, drafted 4 QBs 3rd round or higher. Even if they never used them, like it turned out, those QBs are commodities that can land you more picks. This franchise never thought to do things like that.

Whether Schaub would have remained serviceable or fallen off the map like he did, isn't the point. Never having a plan for life after Schaub, even if you never had to execute that plan like the Pats haven't had to do, is where the powers that be failed here.
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Gotta put that squarely on the coaches (I'll make anyone the best, I'm a guru) and the GM ( (I just don't make waves or accept responsibility) because we can group
 
JB said:
Gotta put that squarely on the coaches (I'll make anyone the best, I'm a guru) and the GM ( (I just don't make waves or accept responsibility) because we can group
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That made me think, did Kubiak ever have to deal with a serious quarterback injury? It looks like Schaub was the first QB for Kubiak that injury kept from returning at a competent level, though I don't remember Griese very well. Obviously most (if not all) of the blame is his for not being prepared, I just found it odd and had to look that up.
 
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Scooter said:
That made me think, did Kubiak ever have to deal with a serious quarterback injury? It looks like Schaub was the first QB for Kubiak that injury kept from returning at a competent level, though I don't remember Griese very well. Obviously most (if not all) of the blame is his for not being prepared, I just found it odd and had to look that up.
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The Texans have always had too many major holes to fill for them to be able to draft mid-range project QBs. Another example of how poorly the team does in those mid rounds. Yes, I know I'm harping on it.
 
FWIW, Vegas doesn’t think we’re the worst team in the AFC South. In fact, in the division, we have the highest odds to win the SB. Third highest in the AFC after the Pats & Steelers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dream_team said:
I wonder what this says about Belichick’s future in NE? Only good reason McDaniels would stay in NE is if he has some kind of wink-wink deal as the future HC.
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Unless it happens now, you can't ever bank on that. Coaches change their minds all of the time.

I was hoping possibly he'd take over right now.
 
Texecutioner said:
Unless it happens now, you can't ever bank on that. Coaches change their minds all of the time.

I was hoping possibly he'd take over right now.
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While that is true, people do not turn down head coaching gigs. Who knows if he’ll ever get another offer? Also, he’d be going to a team that already has an established QB. Only thing that would make sense is if he has a better HC job already lined up.
 
No I'm neither happy or sd for the Jags, they did the same we did for the SB... they watched it

They had a helluva run tho
 
dream_team said:
While that is true, people do not turn down head coaching gigs. Who knows if he’ll ever get another offer? Also, he’d be going to a team that already has an established QB. Only thing that would make sense is if he has a better HC job already lined up.
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That established QB is no guarantee to ever return to full form. He hasn't even played in almost two seasons now. I wouldn't call that a good QB situation at all.
 
JB said:
No I'm neither happy or sd for the Jags, they did the same we did for the SB... they watched it

They had a helluva run tho
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True. But they did make it to a conference championship game with Blake Bortles, and even had a chance to win it.

The Texans make it to the divisional round and turtle up.
 
Double Barrel said:
True. But they did make it to a conference championship game with Blake Bortles, and even had a chance to win it.

The Texans make it to the divisional round and turtle up.
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Yea and with the cagey Couglin at the controls in Jacksonville I'm gonna be surprised if they stay with Bortles in 2018. And I don't mean use a 6th or 7th round pick on somebody in this Draft but draft much higher than that for a QB or more likely pick off a vet QB in FA to compete with Bortles for the job.
 
IDEXAN said:
I'm gonna be surprised if they stay with Bortles in 2018.
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The Jags are on the hook for like 17 or 18 mil now because of the surgery on Bortles wrist a couple weeks ago. Can't release him while he's injured or rehabbing. And that money kicks in at the start of the league year. Something like that...
 
ATXtexanfan said:
What about Lamar Jackson in first round to jags

A little scary to think about if they roll those dice
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I like Jackson, I think he's going to be better than Vick with proper coaching. With that said, Jackson doesn't remind me of the type of QB that Coughlin would draft.
 
How long before free agency rips up the Jags defense?

There's no way they're keeping so many star defensive players together for so long, right? When those rookie contracts run out, they're going to have to pay a bunch of 1st rounders a lot of money
 
htownfan32 said:
How long before free agency rips up the Jags defense?

There's no way they're keeping so many star defensive players together for so long, right? When those rookie contracts run out, they're going to have to pay a bunch of 1st rounders a lot of money
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Dont worry, with Coughlin running the show the Jags are going to be really good for the next 5 yrs or so.
 
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