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BADBOY'S 2022 draft and trades

badboy said:
We keep drafting TEs and none of them were what we thought they would be. Guess I could say that about other positions also.

So many guys I like in round two that I keep thinking of trading down round ones.

Hard for me not to pick Ahmad Gardner. If we could get Zion or Green at 37 and Salyer in third, I would gamble Cross drops to 13 as CBS has him.
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Sauce is the best way to go as he’s the most slam dunk player available.
HOU just cannot be taking chances with 3. It’s such a high pick. Get the slam dunk-elite player who HOU needs. Don’t take any chances. Gardner has a Champ Bailey feel to him.
Thibodeaux scares me. He could be a giant bust.
Im even a bit leery of Hutchinson.
Ekonwu and Neal I would have no problem with but HOU now has 13 and Penning will be there more than likely so get Sauce at 3 and Penning at 13 and nail both picks.
Question. When is the last time Gardner gave up a TD?
Question. How many sacks did Penning give up last season?
 
Jack Burton said:
Sauce is the best way to go as he’s the most slam dunk player available.
HOU just cannot be taking chances with 3. It’s such a high pick. Get the slam dunk-elite player who HOU needs. Don’t take any chances. Gardner has a Champ Bailey feel to him.
Thibodeaux scares me. He could be a giant bust.
Im even a bit leery of Hutchinson.
Ekonwu and Neal I would have no problem with but HOU now has 13 and Penning will be there more than likely so get Sauce at 3 and Penning at 13 and nail both picks.
Question. When is the last time Gardner gave up a TD?
Question. How many sacks did Penning give up last season?
Click to expand...
Yep! I keep fighting myself to trade down for more picks but Hamilton and Sauce [no TDs allowed in college] are closest to 'can't miss'. Despite signings, we're still not where we need. I want better Oline for Mills or Stroud in 23 but OG round 2 and Salyer round 3 satisfies that.
I'm looking at LGs who next to Tunsil would seal that side. I was focusing on Cross at 13 to play LG or RT now then replace Tunsil but if Green is 37 he locks LG for years. Although Salyer dropped to 89 I would use 68 to get him for right side. Not sold on Cann or others.
 
leebigeztx said:
Maybe they should use guys to their strength. We know the Miami te is not a blocker. He can learn to be a functional blocker, but he's no Gronk. Don't try to make him Gronk. Let him use his gifts as a Y-Flex like Dallas Clark who was a below average blocker. Thats all I'm saying.
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I agree

Now that Caserio has picks 4-107 and 4-108, I'm hoping Ruckert or Jelani Woods falls there.
 
badboy said:
Yep! I keep fighting myself to trade down for more picks but Hamilton and Sauce [no TDs allowed in college] are closest to 'can't miss'. Despite signings, we're still not where we need. I want better Oline for Mills or Stroud in 23 but OG round 2 and Salyer round 3 satisfies that.
I'm looking at LGs who next to Tunsil would seal that side. I was focusing on Cross at 13 to play LG or RT now then replace Tunsil but if Green is 37 he locks LG for years. Although Salyer dropped to 89 I would use 68 to get him for right side. Not sold on Cann or others.
Click to expand...

Salyer can play LG, he played LT in college as well as RG. Dude is really talented and Caserio will be very lucky if he falls to 3-68.
 
badboy said:
Yep! I keep fighting myself to trade down for more picks but Hamilton and Sauce [no TDs allowed in college] are closest to 'can't miss'. Despite signings, we're still not where we need. I want better Oline for Mills or Stroud in 23 but OG round 2 and Salyer round 3 satisfies that.
I'm looking at LGs who next to Tunsil would seal that side. I was focusing on Cross at 13 to play LG or RT now then replace Tunsil but if Green is 37 he locks LG for years. Although Salyer dropped to 89 I would use 68 to get him for right side. Not sold on Cann or others.
Click to expand...

Caserio has committed himself to Tunsil, Howard, Britt, Morrissey, Heck, McCray, McCann, and Scharping **He may be playing for his roster spot this season….maybe, we’ll finally see the real Max show up on the field.**

If Caserio decided to cut ties with a couple of these guys….then I could get behind OL early.

I think the the team adds a potential starter or at least a player capable of pushing for a starting job. The offense will then focus on skill position players since they really need RB’s and WR’s. I’ve got a feeling that Pep is going to get the most out of Brevin Jordan this season.
 
steelbtexan said:
The 2 OT's I would be looking at in the 3rd/4th rd range if I needed an OT like the Bears do are Kellen Diesch and Matt Waletzko. Both need development but are extremely athletic and will start sooner rather than later, depending on which team drafts them.
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Salyer and Parham have to be right up there as well.
Soo many options. Be nice to trade back for an extra second.
 
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Jack Burton said:
Sauce is the best way to go as he’s the most slam dunk player available.
HOU just cannot be taking chances with 3. It’s such a high pick. Get the slam dunk-elite player who HOU needs. Don’t take any chances. Gardner has a Champ Bailey feel to him.
Thibodeaux scares me. He could be a giant bust.
Im even a bit leery of Hutchinson.
Ekonwu and Neal I would have no problem with but HOU now has 13 and Penning will be there more than likely so get Sauce at 3 and Penning at 13 and nail both picks.
Question. When is the last time Gardner gave up a TD?
Question. How many sacks did Penning give up last season?
Click to expand...
Gardner feels like Cromartie to me. Bailey was a different dude. Cromartie was a high end db in his own right, just not Bailey. I say this all the time, there is no such thing as slam dunk players in any draft. History tells us that. Everyone is running from Thibs, but he has more sacks than anyone in this draft and last year he played on a bad ankle. He has production and measurables something Clowney didn't have,plus he's flexible.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Caserio has committed himself to Tunsil, Howard, Britt, Morrissey, Heck, McCray, McCann, and Scharping **He may be playing for his roster spot this season….maybe, we’ll finally see the real Max show up on the field.**

If Caserio decided to cut ties with a couple of these guys….then I could get behind OL early.

I think the the team adds a potential starter or at least a player capable of pushing for a starting job. The offense will then focus on skill position players since they really need RB’s and WR’s. I’ve got a feeling that Pep is going to get the most out of Brevin Jordan this season.
Click to expand...
I do not see any of the ol lineman being cut till way after the draft if not later.

As others have said it is the most interesting offseason that we have had in some time. And that's without the DW issue. I hope that you are correct on Scharping and Jordan. Hopefully Warhop will help both. I just cannot allow myself to get very excited about coaching.
 
Saints reportedly need LT desperately; would they trade 16, 19 and 49 for 1.3 to get Neal?

Texans
13 EDGE Jermaine Johnson
16 WR Jameson Williams
19 CB Daxton Hill
37 RB Breece Hall
49 Safety Juaquin Brisker
68 LG Jamaree Salyer
80 DE Sam Williams
 
badboy said:
Saints reportedly need LT desperately; would they trade 16, 19 and 49 for 1.3 to get Neal?

Texans
13 EDGE Jermaine Johnson
16 WR Jameson Williams
19 CB Daxton Hill
37 RB Breece Hall
49 Safety Juaquin Brisker
68 LG Jamaree Salyer
80 DE Sam Williams
Click to expand...

I would agree with this after looking at their 2022 Depth Chart. I don’t see the Saints going QB in this draft with Winston and Dalton on board. They do need a LT in the worst way. The Texans may have a buyer for their 3rd pick.
 
badboy said:
Saints reportedly need LT desperately; would they trade 16, 19 and 49 for 1.3 to get Neal?

Texans
13 EDGE Jermaine Johnson
16 WR Jameson Williams
19 CB Daxton Hill
37 RB Breece Hall
49 Safety Juaquin Brisker
68 LG Jamaree Salyer
80 DE Sam Williams
Click to expand...
The Saints would be very happy sitting at #3 in this draft - they are virtually guaranteed to snag either Neal or Ekwonu so it is very feasible they might deal a trade with Texans.
 
badboy said:
Saints reportedly need LT desperately; would they trade 16, 19 and 49 for 1.3 to get Neal?

Texans
13 EDGE Jermaine Johnson
16 WR Jameson Williams
19 CB Daxton Hill
37 RB Breece Hall
49 Safety Juaquin Brisker
68 LG Jamaree Salyer
80 DE Sam Williams
Click to expand...
From what I can see in the DV charts the Saints 16 & 19 alone would be more than enough to bring them the #3 pick,
because actually our end might require the boot for their two first rounders.
 
JB said:
#3 = 2200
#16 = 1000
#19 = 875

If they throw in #49 (410) then it's close... Texans may have to give back a 4th
Click to expand...
You know what JB I've found DV charts all over the place like:#3 = 514; #16 = 305; #19 = 277.
It all seems rather arbitrary to me because for one thing each Draft each year is different than previous years because
like this year when the Draft is deep but with no outstand QB prospects which is really what drives the value of the top picks of course.
I dunno is there a "Bible" of Draft value charts ?
 
IDEXAN said:
You know what JB I've found DV charts all over the place like:#3 = 514; #16 = 305; #19 = 277.
It all seems rather arbitrary to me because for one thing each Draft each year is different than previous years because
like this year when the Draft is deep but with no outstand QB prospects which is really what drives the value of the top picks of course.
I dunno is there a "Bible" of Draft value charts ?
Click to expand...
What you are looking at is drafttex's Rich Hill model chart... there are a few different models out there, but the accepted and traditional one is the one Jimmy Johnson made years ago
 
JB said:
What you are looking at is drafttex's Rich Hill model chart... there are a few different models out there, but the accepted and traditional one is the one Jimmy Johnson made years ago
Click to expand...
Yes OK but Johnson has been out of the league for something 25-30 years, back in the 20th century, so why should the NFL still use something that was constructed all that time ago as the template for valuing Draft picks in the third decade into the succeeding century ? The NFL is dynamic, it changes with the passage of time as should the methods of evaluating prospects.
 
IDEXAN said:
Yes OK but Johnson has been out of the league for something 25-30 years, back in the 20th century, so why should the NFL still use something that was constructed all that time ago as the template for valuing Draft picks in the third decade into the succeeding century ? The NFL is dynamic, it changes with the passage of time as should the methods of evaluating prospects.
Click to expand...
But they are still using it as a guide
 
Texansphan said:
The Saints would be very happy sitting at #3 in this draft - they are virtually guaranteed to snag either Neal or Ekwonu so it is very feasible they might deal a trade with Texans.
Click to expand...
yep but for my position for now I think NYG knowing other teams want Neal will offer 36 for 3 and still get Ekwonu at 7. Some having them going D with 7 but they should put Neal at right tackle and Ekwonu at OG and give Daniel Jones a chance to succeed.
 
IDEXAN said:
From what I can see in the DV charts the Saints 16 & 19 alone would be more than enough to bring them the #3 pick,
because actually our end might require the boot for their two first rounders.
Click to expand...
yeah that 16 & 19 is what I would do if I were NYG. My understanding they want to get a replacement ready for Hurst allowing Neal to settle in. I would not take that for 3.
 
IDEXAN said:
You know what JB I've found DV charts all over the place like:#3 = 514; #16 = 305; #19 = 277.
It all seems rather arbitrary to me because for one thing each Draft each year is different than previous years because
like this year when the Draft is deep but with no outstand QB prospects which is really what drives the value of the top picks of course.
I dunno is there a "Bible" of Draft value charts ?
Click to expand...
As JB said, some use the "newer" one but I still prefer Jimmy's but continue use only as a guide. Sometimes play/team need trumps points. Here's to hoping Car Sterio can take advantage of those teams.
JB said:
What you are looking at is drafttex's Rich Hill model chart... there are a few different models out there, but the accepted and traditional one is the one Jimmy Johnson made years ago
Click to expand...
texanpride
 
badboy said:
Yep! I keep fighting myself to trade down for more picks but Hamilton and Sauce [no TDs allowed in college] are closest to 'can't miss'. Despite signings, we're still not where we need. I want better Oline for Mills or Stroud in 23 but OG round 2 and Salyer round 3 satisfies that.
I'm looking at LGs who next to Tunsil would seal that side. I was focusing on Cross at 13 to play LG or RT now then replace Tunsil but if Green is 37 he locks LG for years. Although Salyer dropped to 89 I would use 68 to get him for right side. Not sold on Cann or others.
Click to expand...
I am still arguing with myself on trading down from 3 and 13. I could see Sauce there at 3 and Hamilton sliding to 13. Two best DBs at need positions BUT if trades could get us certain picks we could get 13. Hamilton, 16 (NO) Dax Hill, 19 (NO) WR Burks or Jameson Williams 37 CB McCreary and 49 S Brisker. 68 Salyer and 80 DE Sam Williams 4.107 RB Brian Robinson 108 OC Luke Fortner.
 
JB said:
I don't see them giving all that up for a LT...

Cost them too much to get the second 1st round pick to give everything up for one non-QB player
Click to expand...
Makes sense.
They might have their eye on Charles Cross, Trevor Penning, Bernhard Raimann or Kenyon Green with either of those two picks.
 
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IDEXAN said:
Yes OK but Johnson has been out of the league for something 25-30 years, back in the 20th century, so why should the NFL still use something that was constructed all that time ago as the template for valuing Draft picks in the third decade into the succeeding century ? The NFL is dynamic, it changes with the passage of time as should the methods of evaluating prospects.
Click to expand...
Because the math has not changed and they've have not come up with anythng better. 2 + 2 still = 4.
 
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IDEXAN said:
Yes OK but Johnson has been out of the league for something 25-30 years, back in the 20th century, so why should the NFL still use something that was constructed all that time ago as the template for valuing Draft picks in the third decade into the succeeding century ?
Click to expand...
The data is there for someone to create a modernized chart. My guess is that individual teams have done that with analytical tools. As far as for public consumption, the Cowboy chart seems to have validity. At least as valid as others I've seen. The most important thing to realize is that teams that really want to move up or down will modify the value chart at their discretion. There are no hard and fast rules for trading picks.
 
Texian said:
Because the math has not changed and they've have not come up with anythng better. 2 + 2 still = 4.
Click to expand...
But adding together the values assigned to different draft positions, or the math as you say, is obviously just a mechanical process.
The questions remain about the basis used to assign the values for each Draft slot, e.g. #1 = 3,000, #5 = 1,700, so on and so forth ?
Without a defined and valid methodology it all seems so arbitrary.
Johnson of course was an inspirational, maybe even charismatic leader & coach but analytical ? I'm not aware of him having
that quality ?
 
IDEXAN said:
But adding together the values assigned to different draft positions, or the math as you say, is obviously just a mechanical process.
The questions remain about the basis used to assign the values for each Draft slot, e.g. #1 = 3,000, #5 = 1,700, so on and so forth ?
Without a defined and valid methodology it all seems so arbitrary.
Johnson of course was an inspirational, maybe even charismatic leader & coach but analytical ? I'm not aware of him having
that quality ?
Click to expand...
Sometimes you just have to accept what is=what is. The why of it can never be fully explained to your satisfaction
 
IDEXAN said:
But adding together the values assigned to different draft positions, or the math as you say, is obviously just a mechanical process.
The questions remain about the basis used to assign the values for each Draft slot, e.g. #1 = 3,000, #5 = 1,700, so on and so forth ?
Without a defined and valid methodology it all seems so arbitrary.
Johnson of course was an inspirational, maybe even charismatic leader & coach but analytical ? I'm not aware of him having
that quality ?
Click to expand...
www.sportingnews.com

NFL Draft pick trade value chart: How Jimmy Johnson, Rich Hill shaped the way that teams evaluate draft picks in trades | Sporting News

Jimmy Johnson invented the first NFL Draft pick value chart in the early 1990s, but plenty of models have tried to improve upon it in recent years.
www.sportingnews.com www.sportingnews.com
 
IDEXAN said:
Johnson of course was an inspirational, maybe even charismatic leader & coach but analytical ? I'm not aware of him having
that quality ?
Click to expand...
Mike McCoy was the actual originator of the NFL trade value chart. He was a minority partner in the Cowboys and was Jerry Jone's partner in the oil and gas company, Arkoma Production. McCoy was a petroleum engineer who developed expertise in drilling for oil. Jones said of Mccoy, that he was one the smartest people he ever knew.
 
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Texian said:
Mike McCoy was the actual originator of the NFL trade value chart. He was a minority partner in the Cowboys and was Jerry Jone's partner in the oil and gas company, Arkoma Production. McCoy was a petroleum engineer who developed expertise in drilling for oil. Jones said of Mccoy, that he was one the smartest people he ever knew.
Click to expand...
I can't deny that anybody who can successfully complete a University petro engineering curriculum is probably an intelligent
individual.
 
IDEXAN said:
But adding together the values assigned to different draft positions, or the math as you say, is obviously just a mechanical process.
The questions remain about the basis used to assign the values for each Draft slot, e.g. #1 = 3,000, #5 = 1,700, so on and so forth ?
Without a defined and valid methodology it all seems so arbitrary.
Johnson of course was an inspirational, maybe even charismatic leader & coach but analytical ? I'm not aware of him having
that quality ?
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter, that was the value he assigned to each pick and unless he got that value he wasn't going to do a deal.
 
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