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Anybody but Bryce Young in the draft....

beerlover said:
They won’t be picking this high again (for at least 4-5 years) so get Caleb out of your mind.
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If I was in charge I would bring Lovie back and ensure a top 5 pick and make sure I traded in this yrs draft enough where I could ensure getting another 1st in 2024. Trading out of the 1-1 with say Carolina is what I would do. Load up on draft picks, but whatever you do don't pick a QB in this draft.
 
steelbtexan said:
If I was in charge I would bring Lovie back and ensure a top 5 pick and make sure I traded in this yrs draft enough where I could ensure getting another 1st in 2024. Trading out of the 1-1 with say Carolina is what I would do. Load up on draft picks, but whatever you do don't pick a QB in this draft.
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I am not entirely on board with this year's QB class, but waiting another year doesn't really accomplish anything. If you think about it, if the rookie QB we take flubs, then we still have a high pick next year. Otoh, if he wins finishes around .500 and looks decent, we won't be desperate for a QB. So taking a QB this year is not only logical, but necessary.
 
Texansphan said:
I am not entirely on board with this year's QB class, but waiting another year doesn't really accomplish anything. If you think about it, if the rookie QB we take flubs, then we still have a high pick next year. Otoh, if he wins finishes around .500 and looks decent, we won't be desperate for a QB. So taking a QB this year is not only logical, but necessary.
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Not if you dont pick a QB in this draft.

If you think about it, if you draft a QB that you dont think can win a SB then you're wasting your time.
 
Texansphan said:
Unless you go back to the good old days...
If he is 90% as good as Drew Brees, I'll take him all day.
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Brees is taller than 6'0 and weighs more than 200 lbs. But even if Young was as big as Brees is, they both would be outliers.
 
Texansphan said:
I don't see the point in waiting for another Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning.
No-one knew Patrick Mahomes was gonna be this good.
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Nobody took him with the #1 overall either.

I would have a hard time drafting Young in the top 20 mainly because of his size. I’m totally willing to “lose” him to someone wanting to draft him with a top 20 pick.

CJ Stroud… I’d draft him 12ish or so.
 
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amazing80 said:
Stroud would have been miles better than Mills today and we would have been more competitive
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So would Brock Purdy Mr. Irrelevant in 2021 draft. QB's on practice squad maybe better than Mills. Management screwed up again and are trying to save face.
Now it could also be coaching.
 
Texansphan said:
Meh, his draft profile says 6'0" 209.
There were a lot of good short QBs back in the old days.
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First, there was no combine back in the day. So these are just listed numbers.

Bob Griese 6'1" 190 lbs
Johhny Unitas 6'1" 194 lbs
Joe Namath 6'2" 200 lbs
Len Dawson 6'0" 190 lbs
Joe Theismann 6'0" 194 lbs - That was a generous measurement
Bart Starr 6'1" 197 lbs
Joe Montana 6'2" 200 lbs - Stood next to Montana at an autograph session. A very generous measurement.
Jim McMahon 6'1" 195 lbs
Russell Wilson 5'11" 204 lbs - combine measurements

All championship QBs. None were large men. What did they have in common? They could play QB in the NFL. A lot of these guys played in an era where defenders could hit them in the head with a forearm shiver. Do you think they could still play today? I think so.
 
Lucky said:
First, there was no combine back in the day. So these are just listed numbers.

Bob Griese 6'1" 190 lbs
Johhny Unitas 6'1" 194 lbs
Joe Namath 6'2" 200 lbs
Len Dawson 6'0" 190 lbs
Joe Theismann 6'0" 194 lbs - That was a generous measurement
Bart Starr 6'1" 197 lbs
Joe Montana 6'2" 200 lbs - Stood next to Montana at an autograph session. A very generous measurement.
Jim McMahon 6'1" 195 lbs
Russell Wilson 5'11" 204 lbs - combine measurements

All championship QBs. None were large men. What did they have in common? They could play QB in the NFL. A lot of these guys played in an era where defenders could hit them in the head with a forearm shiver. Do you think they could still play today? I think so.
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Off the top of your head, any of those guys #1 overall picks? I’m thinking maybe Griese was a top 10 pick

edit: not Griese
 
Lucky said:
First, there was no combine back in the day. So these are just listed numbers.

Bob Griese 6'1" 190 lbs
Johhny Unitas 6'1" 194 lbs
Joe Namath 6'2" 200 lbs
Len Dawson 6'0" 190 lbs
Joe Theismann 6'0" 194 lbs - That was a generous measurement
Bart Starr 6'1" 197 lbs
Joe Montana 6'2" 200 lbs - Stood next to Montana at an autograph session. A very generous measurement.
Jim McMahon 6'1" 195 lbs
Russell Wilson 5'11" 204 lbs - combine measurements

All championship QBs. None were large men. What did they have in common? They could play QB in the NFL. A lot of these guys played in an era where defenders could hit them in the head with a forearm shiver. Do you think they could still play today? I think so.
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You are comparing “not large” men to an even potentially smaller “not large” man. Seems very Apples and Oranges comparison.

Comparing todays athletes to those that played over 25 years ago hardly ever makes sense. The fact that you say these athletes didn’t have a combine says as much.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I’m drafting both Hooker and Hyatt. May have to wait on Hooker, but the wait would be worth it.
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Hooker is great young man. Very impressive and worth a shot later, depending on Medicals but we can’t keep taking high priority position of need with prospects with medical red flags.

The other thing is age. He will be 25 this January the 13th. Year to rehab he might make it back mid season 2023 but probably best to develop and targetfor 2024 season, he’ll be older than Justin Herbert (2 months).
 
Mr teX said:
Im honestly thinking it doesn’t matter which of these guys they pick. As long as they are put in the right system and surrounded by good weapons and a good playcaller, both will be fine imo. Stroud in particular showed parts of his game that had been lacking or hadn’t been seen before. B/c he has the better measureables tho, he gets the nod over Young.
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Alot of what I saw from Stroud is what some of his criticisms has been. There have been plenty of times when everything is covered, he doesn't tuck and run or use his legs. He's not a great foot athlete, but he's good enough to pick up yards escaping the pocket vs staying there forever. He has a plus arm and quick release with high end accuracy. He's not a finished product, nobody coming out of college is last I checked. I like young also, but what you said is the most important part about having players and a system that plays to players strength. We don't know what Mahomes would've been if he didn't go to a great offensive mind like Reid.
 
steelbtexan said:
If I was in charge I would bring Lovie back and ensure a top 5 pick and make sure I traded in this yrs draft enough where I could ensure getting another 1st in 2024. Trading out of the 1-1 with say Carolina is what I would do. Load up on draft picks, but whatever you do don't pick a QB in this draft.
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This is really one of my greatest fears. If you and Caserio think alike that could extend the Texans misery index indefinitely until real changes are made, probably including ownership.

Can’t we be reasonable caretakers of Bob McNairs vision? Who in Jerry Jones own words called “Mr. Wonderful”. Now it’s Mr. Calhoun’s call to carry on his football legacy, but so far he’s dropped the ball, recovered (near his own endzone) then thrown a pick 6 with his organization because for lack of better term, NY didn’t overturn the interception.

Ok, so you expect fans to maintain the status quo and play next season without investing in the best possible franchise QB prospect/player whom can lead a team and give fans hope/leadership while Texans are rebuilding, yet wait another year or possibly two years (depending on situation- who is available/unknown)?

If by fat chance, via free agency or the draft in two years Caserio has shown us a logical, well executed game plan, worthy of trusting the #1 overall pick (with franchise QB’s available this time) that would be a stretch built on trust alone without any concrete evidence to support.

So get defensive, bring in your edge your DT, allow time for injuries to mend, and next year, expect another couple top 10 picks to unlock your matrix? Manipulate time and space, get you some new uniforms, but keep same coaches, scouts and most importantly mastermind who can put Humpty Dumpty back together again, got it!

:koolaid:
 
beerlover said:
This is really one of my greatest fears. If you and Caserio think alike that could extend the Texans misery index indefinitely until real changes are made, probably including ownership.

Can’t we be reasonable caretakers of Bob McNairs vision? Who in Jerry Jones own words called “Mr. Wonderful”. Now it’s Mr. Calhoun’s call to carry on his football legacy, but so far he’s dropped the ball, recovered (near his own endzone) then thrown a pick 6 with his organization because for lack of better term, NY didn’t overturn the interception.

Ok, so you expect fans to maintain the status quo and play next season without investing in the best possible franchise QB prospect/player whom can lead a team and give fans hope/leadership while Texans are rebuilding, yet wait another year or possibly two years (depending on situation- who is available/unknown)?

If by fat chance, via free agency or the draft in two years Caserio has shown us a logical, well executed game plan, worthy of trusting the #1 overall pick (with franchise QB’s available this time) that would be a stretch built on trust alone without any concrete evidence to support.

So get defensive, bring in your edge your DT, allow time for injuries to mend, and next year, expect another couple top 10 picks to unlock your matrix? Manipulate time and space, get you some new uniforms, but keep same coaches, scouts and most importantly mastermind who can put Humpty Dumpty back together again, got it!

:koolaid:
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If you believe next yrs QB class carries top 5 type QB talent it's exactly what you do. The franchise will be in a much better place in the long run. The upcoming class doesn't have that QB in it. IMHO

Speaking of the fans, Minute Maid was a ghost town. The team drew 0.0 TV ratings. They stayed the course and built a dynasty. Do I expect Calhoun to do the same? Nope, that's the difference between great ownership Crane and the McNair's. You speak of Bob McNair's vision, what vision was that? The same vision as Bud's vision? To wring every last dollar he could out of the fans of this city. Mission accomplished, I'm just glad that the fans aren't buying this crap anymore.

The same things you're saying about Caserio were said about Luhnow at this point of the Stros rebuild. Drellich was especially unfair to Luhnow because he had the same vision that many on this MB do and it kills the press to this day that Luhnow got it right. A witch hunt began and just like that Luhnow was gone. In short whether some agree or not Caserio has a vision of what he wants the team to look like in 3 years. Fans need to learn from the Stros way of doing business and be patient. Will they? Not a chance, that's why you need real leadership from ownership during these tough times. Will Janice/Cal provide that leadership? Doubtful.
 
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beerlover said:
This is really one of my greatest fears...extend the Texans misery index indefinitely until real changes are made, probably including ownership....
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steelbtexan said:
...Speaking of the fans, Minute Maid was a ghost town. The team drew 0.0 TV ratings.... You speak of Bob McNair's vision, what vision was that? The same vision as Bud's vision? To wring every last dollar he could out of the fans of this city. Mission accomplished, I'm just glad that the fans aren't buying this crap anymore....
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A change in ownership is an unlikely dream. Why should the McNairs sell, or any owner for that matter. It doesn't make financial sense. Ownership of an NFL team is one of the most lucrative financial investments the rich can put their money into.

The NFL just inked a multi year deal with YouTube for the rights to the Sunday Ticket, worth $2B per year. This is on top of the Thursday night deal inked last March with Amazon for $1B per year. And both of these on top of the $110B multi-year media deal signed with the major networks.

Add these up. It's more than $13B a year to be divided up between 32 teams. If I calculated corrected, that's more than $40M a year, cash in the bank, for doing nothing.

They could have empty stadiums and still collect that $40M. Fans don't matter in this day and age of professional football. Learn to accept this.
 
Number19 said:
A change in ownership is an unlikely dream. Why should the McNairs sell, or any owner for that matter. It doesn't make financial sense. Ownership of an NFL team is one of the most lucrative financial investments the rich can put their money into.

The NFL just inked a multi year deal with YouTube for the rights to the Sunday Ticket, worth $2B per year. This is on top of the Thursday night deal inked last March with Amazon for $1B per year. And both of these on top of the $110B multi-year media deal signed with the major networks.

Add these up. It's more than $13B a year to be divided up between 32 teams. If I calculated corrected, that's more than $40M a year, cash in the bank, for doing nothing.

They could have empty stadiums and still collect that $40M. Fans don't matter in this day and age of professional football. Learn to accept this.
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40M seems really low from 13B / 32 - that's more in the neighborhood of 400M a year per team - did you subtract the salary cap and operating expenses? (plus I'm sure the NFL keeps a chunk of that 13B for themselves - probably in a big vault so they can dive into it and swim ala Scrooge McDuck).
 
FuzzyLogic said:
40M seems really low from 13B / 32 - that's more in the neighborhood of 400M a year per team - did you subtract the salary cap and operating expenses? (plus I'm sure the NFL keeps a chunk of that 13B for themselves - probably in a big vault so they can dive into it and swim ala Scrooge McDuck).
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You may be right. The digits ran off my calculator and I likely misplaced a decimal. But $400 M minus whatever misc charges is a lot of money each year to divy up between the McNairs. Very lucrative investment.
 
Number19 said:
A change in ownership is an unlikely dream. Why should the McNairs sell, or any owner for that matter. It doesn't make financial sense. Ownership of an NFL team is one of the most lucrative financial investments the rich can put their money into.

The NFL just inked a multi year deal with YouTube for the rights to the Sunday Ticket, worth $2B per year. This is on top of the Thursday night deal inked last March with Amazon for $1B per year. And both of these on top of the $110B multi-year media deal signed with the major networks.

Add these up. It's more than $13B a year to be divided up between 32 teams. If I calculated corrected, that's more than $40M a year, cash in the bank, for doing nothing.

They could have empty stadiums and still collect that $40M. Fans don't matter in this day and age of professional football. Learn to accept this.
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I've been saying this for the last few years.

The fans in the stands/parking/concessions are the owners pocket change.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
40M seems really low from 13B / 32 - that's more in the neighborhood of 400M a year per team - did you subtract the salary cap and operating expenses? (plus I'm sure the NFL keeps a chunk of that 13B for themselves - probably in a big vault so they can dive into it and swim ala Scrooge McDuck).
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Uncle Scrooge was my grade school comic book favorite. I still have a few originals tucked away somewhere. 10 cents a copy.
(Edit) At one time I had almost a complete collection. My mom was a grade school special ed teacher and while I was away at college my mom took my comics to school for her kids. Only a few survived.
 
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Number19 said:
Uncle Scrooge was my grade school comic book favorite. I still have a few originals tucked away somewhere. 10 cents a copy.
(Edit) At one time I had almost a complete collection. My mom was a grade school special ed teacher and while I was away at college my mom took my comics to school for her kids. Only a few survived.
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I have a similar story.

Moved out of my dad's house in the 6rh grade and had probably 300 comic books that had been given to me as a kid. They went missing never to be found again.

I wonder what those things would be worth today.
 
steelbtexan said:
In short whether some agree or not Caserio has a vision of what he wants the team to look like in 3 years. Fans need to learn from the Stros way of doing business and be patient.
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Maybe Caserio has a vision. You don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Nobody does. You're shouting "Stay patient!" How do you know Nick isn't jumping a the chance to take a QB? You're projecting your desires for the team onto Caserio. Which may be 180 degrees from what Nick is actually trying to do.
 
Lucky said:
Maybe Caserio has a vision. You don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Nobody does. You're shouting "Stay patient!" How do you know Nick isn't jumping a the chance to take a QB? You're projecting your desires for the team onto Caserio. Which may be 180 degrees from what Nick is actually trying to do.
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I'm not projecting crap, I'm saying I hope Caserio wants too and is allowed by ownership to remain patient. That's what should have been learned from the Stros rebuild. I read a book that Luhnow said when he 1st took over everything that was done in FA/trades etc... was done with what the team would look like as championship contenders in 5 years. Crane took the heat and backed Luhnows plan.

Do you see Cal as being this kind of owner?
 
steelbtexan said:
I have a similar story.

Moved out of my dad's house in the 6rh grade and had probably 300 comic books that had been given to me as a kid. They went missing never to be found again.

I wonder what those things would be worth today.
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Me too. This past year, at my sisters request, I dug around and found 3 boxes of our old comics. Mostly early (late 50's & early 60's) comics. Mostly Superman, Superboy and my sister's favorite, Supergirl. Too sophisticated or advanced for my mom's students. Many in poor shape but a few in very good condition. One of these days I'll have to put them in sleeves and check their value. Superman was my second favorite behind Scrooge and his money bin.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you believe next yrs QB class carries top 5 type QB talent it's exactly what you do. The franchise will be in a much better place in the long run.
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imo, the only reason not to draft a QB is because you don't believe in him. Doesn't matter what next years class looks like. If you don't believe in Jake Locker or Christian Ponder, you don't draft them in the 1st round.

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks either. If I think the guy is not worthy of my 1st round pick & would entertain taking him in the 2nd, it is what it is. If he's not there in the 2nd, I'm ok with that, provided I believe in the guy(s) I took in the 1st.
 
thunderkyss said:
imo, the only reason not to draft a QB is because you don't believe in him. Doesn't matter what next years class looks like. If you don't believe in Jake Locker or Christian Ponder, you don't draft them in the 1st round.

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks either. If I think the guy is not worthy of my 1st round pick & would entertain taking him in the 2nd, it is what it is. If he's not there in the 2nd, I'm ok with that, provided I believe in the guy(s) I took in the 1st.
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Exactly, if you think a QB is worth the 1-1 pick, you make the pick. I dont think a QB in this draft is worth 1-1.
 
beerlover said:
Hooker is great young man. Very impressive and worth a shot later, depending on Medicals but we can’t keep taking high priority position of need with prospects with medical red flags.

The other thing is age. He will be 25 this January the 13th. Year to rehab he might make it back mid season 2023 but probably best to develop and targetfor 2024 season, he’ll be older than Justin Herbert (2 months).
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The problem in taking a QB with the first pick of RD1, the Texans will put him under center from Day 1. How many times do we have to watch this disaster unfold? Hooker is going to make some team very happy regardless of his age or when he hits the field. Drafting Hooker prevents the Texans from pulling the OL’ QB Development Gun out of the drawer and shooting themselves in the foot for the umpteenth time…..hail, they’ve got to be running out of toes to aim at. Hooker is very good and may be even better with a little unrushed development time.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I'm not projecting crap, I'm saying I hope Caserio wants too and is allowed by ownership to remain patient. That's what should have been learned from the Stros rebuild. I read a book that Luhnow said when he 1st took over everything that was done in FA/trades etc... was done with what the team would look like as championship contenders in 5 years. Crane took the heat and backed Luhnows plan.

Do you see Cal as being this kind of owner?
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Well Mr. NFL history expert, has a long term Astros like rebuild ever worked to build a championship team in the NFL?
 
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