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Any of you gonna admit to owing DW4 an apology?
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
O'Brien's "scheme" does not force Watson to lock onto 1 receiver. Fuller is not the only receiver that got open. Watson left quite a few wide open receivers on the table that would have been better choices for many particular plays
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Both teams took advantage of Watson's inability to read disquised defenses quickly enough or at all, and call the appropriate protections.
And whose job is it to teach Watson how to read "disquised defenses"? I think O'Brien has that job.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
How do we know OB hasn’t taught Watson that and as of right now, being a rookie, hasn’t grasped that concept yet?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
How many read option QBs coming out of college have really been able to read defenses despite coaching, especially after some film is available in the NFL when opponents plan more sophistocated counters? The more film, the more a quarterback must read the field..........the entire field.
Holy cow!!! You can see the future and Lechler is STILL punting in 2917?????
I thought the defense did pretty good, for the most part. That last scoring drive was, by far, the worst performance of the day by the unit.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Watson was 22-32 for 310 yards and 2 Tds, 1 int. We had 437 yards to their 283, 21 first downs to 15, we lost because lack of discipline and poor play calling down the stretch. The most obvious example is the ridiculous screens back to back after we just got done forcing the ball down their throats the entire drive.
Both of those categories fall on OB. If the guy had an OC other than himself we could eliminate some of the negativity surrounding him, but he doesn't. He chose to have dual roles and now must suffer the blowback when it fails.
Both of those categories fall on OB. If the guy had an OC other than himself we could eliminate some of the negativity surrounding him, but he doesn't. He chose to have dual roles and now must suffer the blowback when it fails.
zshawn10
All Pro
Greg Rajan
✔@GregRajan
https://twitter.com/GregRajan/status/1042032644509392897
New #Texans from Texas Sports Nation - Deshaun Watson watch: Week 2 https://ift.tt/2NSYYa0
7:48 AM - Sep 18, 2018
✔@GregRajan
https://twitter.com/GregRajan/status/1042032644509392897
New #Texans from Texas Sports Nation - Deshaun Watson watch: Week 2 https://ift.tt/2NSYYa0
7:48 AM - Sep 18, 2018
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I don't know why people keep doing this. I only care about his stats after 16 full starts.....that's it. That data combined with how you've seen him progress/regress you can get a good idea of whether the kid has the goods or not.
badboy
Hall of Fame
well he had the goods in 2017 where did they go? His stats were not just better in 2017 in those games but astronomically great. Six games doesn't guarantee he will be forever great but he should be better than so far in these two games. Some of what we have seen is rust and some is on the oline but it just might be our OTs are better than what we had last season. Many have voiced that the two OT positions cannot usually be filled successfully with a player from opposite side. So why isn't Davenport being given that and allowed to learn RT? Rankin is better than D and if both had been in 2018 draft at third round I would have taken Rankin. He should be better than D at LT that's no surprise. Question should be will D get better and how quickly. Next question is what other choice is there now (not before game one that time has passed).
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
There are numerous reasons why he shouldn't be better than what he's been..those have been covered ad-nauseum. He had an extended....really really bright "flash" in those 6 starts last year...Most young qbs don't flash as bright as he did in their 1st 6 starts. In no way did i mean that i didn't believe DW4 had the goods. My point is that i would like to see his numbers over a 16 game time span...b/c that's been used as the gold standard in the past.
The o-line thing...Rankin got 0 reps in TC and preseason.. Davenport played LT for 4 straight years in college (didn't miss a start) and had a few late last year at LT for us. Remember Rankin was out injured all TC and preseason & is only playing b/c Henderson went down. So it's SOMEWHAT understandable why BoB went the way he did with where they lined up & where they are now.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
I am not calling you out or necessarily disagreeing just think the difference is more on OBrien than Watson although post in other thread saying Cal isn't happy with #4 is interesting.
I read somewhere that when Manning was with the Colts, the center (Jeff Saturday) was making the line calls and adjustments.
Last year, I read that the Rams, would have Goff get to the line as soon as possible so that the coaches could help with adjustments before the QB radio was turned off with 12 seconds on the play clock.
So, my question is how much help is Watson getting on the field? If we know teams are going to be disguising coverage and doing all the things any competent NFL DC will show a young QB, how are we countering their schemes and keep him from "over thinking" things instead of reacting?
At times, watching O'Brien's offense is like watching the Rockets' offense. Everything seems like an ISO. Too many one on one matchups where the WR has to "out talent" the DB. Not enough crossing routes, not enough rub or pick plays. The WRs have to work so hard in this offense. It's no wonder Fuller keeps pulling his hamstrings.
He's playing as expected of a guy coming off of an ACL.
I thought you were the guy that said Davenport would make his greatest improvement from yr 1 to yr 2. I see no improvement in Davenport and dont expect much more improvement from him. I do expect Rankin to improve with experience. He has the lower body strength to hold up and has a lot of dog in his game. Something Davenports game is certainly lacking.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-deshaun-watson-on-basis-of-being-a-black-qb/
This ************ sure had too. God damn shame people still think like this.
This ************ sure had too. God damn shame people still think like this.
Scooter
Funky
I agree, but this is brought up in the NSZ and personally I would prefer it stay over there.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Got it. I never visit that board so didn't know it was there. Feel free to move the post.
PFF on Watson (I would personally put more blame on the system):
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-pff-nfl-power-rankings-week-3
2018 Week 3 ELO Ranking: 28
Deshaun Watson has struggled to throw deep to start 2018, posting a passer rating of 73.3 with two interceptions on throws 20+ yards downfield – and when he is not connecting on deep throws, he has a difficult time moving the ball. He has twice as many turnover-worthy throws as big-time throws. If Houston wants to turn their season around it has to start with Watson.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-32-nfl-observations-week-2
Houston Texans: Quarterback Deshaun Watson has averaged 3.48 seconds to throw so far in 2018. This is the longest time we’ve ever recorded in the first two weeks of a season.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-pffs-nfl-qb-rankings-after-week-2
17. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
2018 season grade: 69.2
Bailed on out occasion and hit with some luck, Watson actually has more turnover-worthy passes this season (three) than he does actual interceptions (two).
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-pff-nfl-power-rankings-week-3
2018 Week 3 ELO Ranking: 28
Deshaun Watson has struggled to throw deep to start 2018, posting a passer rating of 73.3 with two interceptions on throws 20+ yards downfield – and when he is not connecting on deep throws, he has a difficult time moving the ball. He has twice as many turnover-worthy throws as big-time throws. If Houston wants to turn their season around it has to start with Watson.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-32-nfl-observations-week-2
Houston Texans: Quarterback Deshaun Watson has averaged 3.48 seconds to throw so far in 2018. This is the longest time we’ve ever recorded in the first two weeks of a season.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-pffs-nfl-qb-rankings-after-week-2
17. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
2018 season grade: 69.2
Bailed on out occasion and hit with some luck, Watson actually has more turnover-worthy passes this season (three) than he does actual interceptions (two).
FFS I wish folks would stop misusing that stat. It's from "snap to throw". It conveniently leaves out from "snap to run like hell".
Yeah I don't think they are attributing to good ol. It shows how good Watson is at buying time
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's one of those stats that you have to get context for. Like grading DBs solely on Ints. Well if he's so good he is rarely thrown at it's almost meaningless. You'd need to do an Int to Targets stat.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Watson is pressured on nearly 50% of passing plays. Thats absurd.
Yep, next highest is 40% and leave average is 27%.
Complete organizational failure on the OL.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
It bothers me because I've seen defensive alignments that have shown 7-9 defenders in the box at times and the offense rarely adjusts. Where are the max protect packages, the audibles, hot routes, pick plays etc.. anything to help the QB out. Instead its more of the same unimaginative '3 yards and a cloud of dust' type offense. I was talking with someone the other day how boring Obriens offense is compared to Koobs lets say (or any other good offensive coach). I remember Koobs would come out on the first play of certain games with a wicked creative pass play and set the tone early. You know what Obrien calls for the first play of the game on 99% of the time? 13 Dive.
I see guys like Sean McVey, Lil Shanny, Doug Pederson drawing up awesome plays to take advantage of the talent level on the team, not force feeding a relic of an offensive system (EP).
Innovate or die is trendy business jargon that applies totally to what Obrien is trying to do here. Instead of having eureka moments its still the same "Im gonna make this square peg fit in this round hole come hell or high water' philosophy and I cant remember the last time I said to myself 'hey thats a new wrinkle' ... - (well he did start employing some stretch/outside running with Miller finally, so there is that tiny morsel) otherwise Bill O'Brien hasnt tried to get better .. he is using the same tired system, and its still the same tired excuses when it doesnt work.
austins23
Hall of Fame
I can't remember the last time I was watching a Texans game and said, "Damn, that was a bad ass play!" Like you said, this offense is boring as all get out.
I saw someone diagram the TD pass from Luck to Hilton this past Sunday. It was a 8 yd (give or take a few) TD pass, but the narrator showed just how Reich put the play together where, against that D alignment, he was guaranteed a TD. When I watched it, and I watched it again from the coaches view on Gamepass, I was pissed off because O'Brien has NEVER had a play like that in his offense. The play was genius, 2 WR's came wide open, Luck just happened to pick Hilton to throw it to. O'Brien can't scheme ONE WR open, much less TWO!!
Texansballer74
The Marine
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Y’all aren’t showing enough appreciation for Lamar Miller running up the middle for little to no gain.
First play of the game usually.
First play of the possession.
First play of the series.
Every. Single. *******. Time.
First play of the game usually.
First play of the possession.
First play of the series.
Every. Single. *******. Time.
To be fair they've run a little more outside run that actually works.
But yes, the first play is Lamar Middle.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
The first part doesn’t make me feel better.
IT TOOK OB 2 YEARS TO FIGURE OUT THAT LAMAR MILLER IS BETTER RUNNING TO THE OUTSIDE RATHER THAN UP THE MIDDLE??? WTF.
He'll probably forget soon
You mean the system that's won the last 3 SB's. Yes, Pederson's system main staple is the EP system.
This is really about 3 things.
1. BOB needs to stop being so conservative and get his team prepared to play every week.
2. Watson needs to play better
3. There needs to be much more investment in Ol talent and that talent needs to be coached much better, starting next yr. It's to late to fix what's wrong with the OL this yr. Although the OL coaching could be better.
Couldn't run outside with last yrs OL.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Pretty good breakdown
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Wasn’t really attempted
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Agree..but point 2 is/has been mostly the problem despite the circle jerk in here that wants to blame everything on BoB. 610 had a new segment today with Former cowboys Qb Clint Stoerner. He basically analyzed all of Watson’s bad plays (some of his good ones too) from the titans game...
Basically said:
the int throw was on him b/c he didn’t recognize pre snap that the safety was positioned to double on Nuk..shouldn’t have made that throw and took what was available underneath...Miller.
The cb blitz he was sacked on....was on him. Said he should’ve used a hard/dummy count to get the defense to reveal itself so he could’ve seen it and adjust the protection and/or at the very least hit that pop pass to Nuk where the cb blitzed from...he even said Nuk popped up & was expecting him to throw it to him quickly DW4 just didn’t see it’s done read it wrong.
And of course he said DW4’s situational awareness at the end of the game has to be better.........but he did mention that the team looked a little out of sorts on that last drive....like there was no plan for what they were going to do on that last drive..which does come back to
Texansballer74
The Marine
He also had Ellington wide open as well. He gets the ball to him and it's a walk in TD.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Link
Just something that came up. Sounds mainly college. There was another article where Pederson was asked and he mentioned the Shurmer Vikings, who run a heavy spread imfluenced WCO.
Belicheck is the first HC to run the spread in the NFL. The Moss Welker years and still carry some of the spread concepts in their offense today. I think this is the type of offense that BOB wants to run. But who knows.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wasn't implying otherwise.
Don't disagree. But an EP/spread makes great sense for Brady. I think for a Watson, Wentz, Foles, Keenum, an WCO/spread makes more sense.
Hell, Belichick a few times of year will call a designed bootleg. OB acts like thats anathema.
Anathema, LOL
Didn't think I would ever see this word used in the TT forums.
Didn't think I would ever see this word used in the TT forums.
That's my issue. It might be the offense O'Brien wants to run. Even if you have the Belichick playbook, the play caller has to have an innate feel for calling plays. At this point, outside of the scripted plays to open the game, it still feels like O'Brien is just calling random plays based on down and distance. I don't know what's the identity he's trying to establish on offense.
Maybe game plan offense is a fancy phrase for throw it against the wall and see if it sticks.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://libertygridiron.wordpress.c...et-carson-wentz-build-part-of-their-playbook/
Sharing concepts is where Pederson and O'Brien similarities stop. Besides the Patriots who are using the bonafide version of the EP with a guy who has mastered in Brady, all these other 'EP' style offenses have evolved and melded with current trends. Im waiting for the new trendy name to come out for them because it isnt strictly EP.
Hopefully you're not defending Buttchins iteration on the EP because it is the worst run variant I have ever seen.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Sean Ryan was heavily involved at designing the playbook last year for Watson. Seeing as you can't add an OC mid season, and have your team learn a whole new system, I would like to see him get a shot at play calling duties. See if he has more feel for play calling than O'Brien, maybe use some combinations of the route tree to get guys open which doesn't seem to be a concern for O'Brien.
Last year, you heard about Sean Ryan working with Watson. After the season, O'Brien didn't promote him. Then Ryan interviewed with other teams, didn't get a OC job offer, returns to the Texans as a QB coach.
Before joining the Texans, Ryan only had one year as an NFL QB coach. So, if he's not ready to be an NFL OC, what makes him ready to be a QB coach when most of his NFL experience was as a WR coach?
Shishkabob
All Pro
Thats the general progression, most teams don't just employ someone they aren't familiar with or is inexperienced to start working with the most valuable position on the team. You are generally a quality control guy, then an assistant coach for whatever position, then move to coach a position group like TE, WRs, then you go to QBs. If you do well there you go to OC.
This is just my theory on the matter, from what I have heard. What I have heard was they did the same thing they did with Ryan, that they did with Vrabel 3 years ago when he interviewed for 49ers DC position. They brought him back, had a meeting with him(probably bumped up his pay), told him to learn playcalling and game planning for 1 more year then he will be OC. Again this is my theory, I heard when he came back from his interviews this offseason he had a meeting with the McNairs, OB, and Gaine so that is my thinking on the matter. So my opinion based off of what I think is happening is if OB keeps doing poorly with play calling and managing the games at the same time, around week 8 or so pass the play calling duties over to Ryan and see how he does.