Any of you gonna admit to owing DW4 an apology?

[Carr Bombed]

When Deshaun gets hurt SCRAMBLING I'll apologize. Heck hes already won games on a torn ACL before so really just business as usual for him.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/11/de...ans-clemson-injury-college-south-carolina-nfl

But yea keep pining for Tom Savage, Peterman, Hoyer, whoever else resembles your grade school PE teacher. Im gonna ride with DEGOAT!!

He was banged up in the Seattle game.. which I'm positive led to the knee giving out in practice..

The same exact thing happened to him in college.. suffered a knee sprain in the game, tore the knee completely in the following practice.

So yes, my worries were about him playing behind last year's line as a rookie were completely justified and sadly what I feared would happen, did happen.

I wanted Tom Savage taking those hits behind that wet tissue paper we called a offensive line last year, but Tom Savage couldn't even hold up to a hit from a wiffle bat so it wouldn't of mattered anyways.

I don't remember anyone saying Tom Savage was the future, it was mostly about if Watson should start year one or not.

 

[Fred]

Well, my worries were about his ability to stay healthy as were MANY OTHERS, so what were those people wrong about.

Since y'all are so hung up on apologies..where's ours?

Funny when I mentioned a lot of folks here are constantly carrying on about how fragile Watson is, you said you had not seen that on this board. Yet now not only are you one of them, there were MANY OTHERS - exactly like I said.

But Uncle Rico is correct. Most (maybe not you, but definitely most and the most repetitious) people were concerned that his style of play - using his mobility to avoid contact instead of standing in the pocket like a Savage, err, statue - made him especially likely to get injured. And yet he was injured while standing in the pocket like a statue. While Duane Brown was playing Left Tackle. I still prefer that he uses his mobility to avoid contact, and I am not apologizing for it.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Funny when I mentioned a lot of folks here are constantly carrying on about how fragile Watson is, you said you had not seen that on this board. Yet now not only are you one of them, there were MANY OTHERS - exactly like I said.

But Uncle Rico is correct. Most (maybe not you, but definitely most and the most repetitious) people were concerned that his style of play - using his mobility to avoid contact instead of standing in the pocket like a Savage, err, statue - made him especially likely to get injured. And yet he was injured while standing in the pocket like a statue. While Duane Brown was playing Left Tackle. I still prefer that he uses his mobility to avoid contact, and I am not apologizing for it.

QBs who run do stand a higher chance at getting hurt.. that has been proven out over the course of history.

The key is to run smart and know when to bail out of a play like Russell Wilson. That's what I hope Watson becomes, but I don't see how anyone can fault anyone being concerned about a running QB getting hurt in the NFL.

 

[Charlie Whigg]

Sorta. I didn't think he had the arm strength to succeed (whoops), but I also thought he was a major injury risk. Jury's still out on that, but hopefully he can come back and stay back

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Prior to the draft, I didn't expect any of the big three to fall to us, and so I had totally mentally prepared myself to draft OL in the first round and then someone like Kizer in the 2nd or Peterman in the 3rd.

IIRC, I didn't want Trubisky because I didn't feel that he'd had enough experience as a starter. I didn't want Mahomes because of the whole air-raid thing, so I wasn't sure he'd be able to pick up OB's offense, but watching him throw the ball from all kinds of angles did make me go "hmmmm." Of the three, I wanted Watson for no other reason than that's my name. When i watched him, I loved the poise and the guts, but I didn't think he was going to be all that much better than an Andy Dalton or an AJ McCarron. However, when we moved up to pick him, I was immediately on board just because we'd had the guts to pull the trigger and take the risk. (I had also been on board with the idea of making the move to get [Redacted] the year before, so i wasn't really expecting it to turn out all that great.)

 

[amazing80]

QBs who run do stand a higher chance at getting hurt.. that has been proven out over the course of history.

The key is to run smart and know when to bail out of a play like Russell Wilson. That's what I hope Watson becomes, but I don't see how anyone can fault anyone being concerned about a running QB getting hurt in the NFL.

Prove it. Show us the stats

 

[Carr Bombed]

Prove it. Show us the stats

Damn.. looked it up and you may be right.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slat..._like_colin_kaepernick_more_injury_prone.html

Go figure..

Still doesn't change the fact that you don't want your QB taking hits behind a crappy Oline or want him taking on LBers.

As long as Watson is smart with his runs, I encourage him to use all the weapons he has in his arsenal.. Like Russell Wilson, not like Cam Newton (eventually his punishment will catch up to him.)

 

[austins23]

While Duane Brown was playing Left Tackle. I still prefer that he uses his mobility to avoid contact, and I am not apologizing for it.

I believe the hit that "initially" got the knee came from the right side of the Oline. The defender blew past jackomini and jumped over the RB and rolled into Watson's leg.

 

[IDEXAN]

Prior to the draft, I didn't expect any of the big three to fall to us, and so I had totally mentally prepared myself to draft OL in the first round and then someone like Kizer in the 2nd or Peterman in the 3rd.

IIRC, I didn't want Trubisky because I didn't feel that he'd had enough experience as a starter. I didn't want Mahomes because of the whole air-raid thing, so I wasn't sure he'd be able to pick up OB's offense, but watching him throw the ball from all kinds of angles did make me go "hmmmm." Of the three, I wanted Watson for no other reason than that's my name. When i watched him, I loved the poise and the guts, but I didn't think he was going to be all that much better than an Andy Dalton or an AJ McCarron. However, when we moved up to pick him, I was immediately on board just because we'd had the guts to pull the trigger and take the risk. (I had also been on board with the idea of making the move to get [Redacted] the year before, so i wasn't really expecting it to turn out all that great.)

Thats BALLS & BRAINS, that's what RS showed the NFL world with that move in the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft. Too bad there's still some folks on this Board who won't give Rick his due.

 

[ObsiWan]

But yea keep pining for Tom Savage, Peterman, Hoyer, whoever else resembles your grade school PE teacher.!

Now you're just being silly.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Now you're just being silly.

My middle school coach Mr Weber could throw a frozen rope 50 yards effortlessly - prettiest spiral you'll ever see.

 

[Earl34]

Thats BALLS & BRAINS, that's what RS showed the NFL world with that move in the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft. Too bad there's still some folks on this Board who won't give Rick his due.

In three years, they will forget that draft day move and give the credit to O’Brien or Gaine for drafting Watson.

 

[TexansBull]

Whenever life has got you down ... just stroll over to the first few pages of the Deshaun Watson draft thread. It will lift your spirits right up! LOL

I did. I didn’t see anything out of the norm. Until you got to Texian’s posts.

What I read were fans that didn’t have faith in the organization to draft, develop and have good fortune in a franchise QB. I also saw the pessimism of the OL to keep him healthy and the fact he has been injured before he could get injured again behind this patchwork line.

What is unusual about that?

 

[TheKDog]

I did, but this may be jumping the gun a bit. It was a small sample size of 4 games (the first 2 weren't good due to obrien sticking with the spread ep system)

https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/...utsiders-on-deshaun-watsons-insane-production

Can Deshaun Watson continue his incredible rate of production going into Year Two? What do you expect from his sophomore season, assuming that both DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller remain healthy?

In the book, our projected DVOA for him is 3.6%, a figure that would have put him right around 15th-place Russell Wilson among last year’s 35 passers that met our attempts threshold. That’s a pretty average mark, but I think if Watson is an average performer in his second season, that shouldn’t be seen as a “sophomore slump” or “disappointment” or “failure” or whatever.

Watson had a weird statistical profile last year, and it was probably even weirder than you think. He threw interceptions and was sacked at very high rates and was still really productive by metrics that include both sacks and interceptions like DVOA or Adjusted Net Yards Per Attempt. That’s historically rare, not just for rookies but for all quarterbacks. As noted, I’m skeptical the sacks figure will change that much. He should throw fewer interceptions in year two, like other first-round picks have done. He probably won’t lead the league in DVOA on short passes (screens, but not just screens). He probably won’t be quite as efficient on deep passes. He wasn’t great on intermediate throws last year, or at least more successful by DVOA than other Texans quarterbacks. Having to spend time this offseason rehabbing the ACL instead of improving his craft should temper your expectations for how much better he’ll be.

That said, I think he’ll still be a good deep passer, and he was a very aggressive deep passer. Hopkins and Fuller are both good fits for him, and good complements to each other. Average offense + defensive improvement = Houston is a playoff contender (and slight favorites in what we project as an extremely competitive AFC South).

 

[Lucky]

What I read were fans that didn’t have faith in the organization to draft, develop and have good fortune in a franchise QB.

The opinions of fans often create a paradox. "The Texans need a young QB." "The Texans can't identify QB talent or develop them." That's OK, they're fans and they have that right.

It's also unfair to fans who did not see Watson as a worthy selection. You can make a case that every team outside of Carolina and possibly Tennessee made a mistake passing on Watson. They're paid for their opinions and their opinions count. Have they sent Deshaun an apology, yet? He beat the Browns, Bengals, and Titans, so maybe they should have.

Fans shouldn't have to carry the weight of an opinion that falls flat. I hoped the Texans would select Terrell Suggs over Andre Johnson in 2003. Suggs has been an outstanding pass rusher, maybe a HOFer. But, he's no Andre Johnson, who I felt was too raw and lacked production at the collegiate level. Wrong. I made my apologies with tons of cheers and 4 #80 jerseys. We're good now.

 

[Lucky]

I did, but this may be jumping the gun a bit. It was a small sample size of 4 games (the first 2 weren't good due to obrien sticking with the spread ep system)

To be fair to O'Brien, Watson wasn't the starter in week 1, and the week 2 game was in Cincy on a Thursday night. Not a lot of time to make changes.

I like numbers. But, what is seen with the eyes has to be taken into consideration when evaluating numbers.

As noted, I’m skeptical the sacks figure will change that much. He should throw fewer interceptions in year two, like other first-round picks have done. He probably won’t lead the league in DVOA on short passes (screens, but not just screens). He probably won’t be quite as efficient on deep passes. He wasn’t great on intermediate throws last year, or at least more successful by DVOA than other Texans quarterbacks. Having to spend time this offseason rehabbing the ACL instead of improving his craft should temper your expectations for how much better he’ll be.

I think that the sack numbers can go down. Besides the Texans attempt at improving the O-line play, I would suggest that Watson will improve his recognition of pass coverages. That, combined with his quick release, should allow the ball to come out more quickly and reduce not only sacks but pressures. Which should reduce interceptions.

While I don't pretend to know the formula used in DVOA. I don't know why Watson can't continue to be successful on short passes. Watson's release is extraordinarily quick. His receiving corps is adept at making defenders miss in the open field. And the Texans have invested in picks at TE that should help the efficiency in short, underneath routes. Whether, Deshaun will be as efficient on deep passes is debatable, that doesn't preclude him from continuing to be among the best.

Finally, Watson did spend time rehabbing his injury. But, he also was on the field in mini camp. And he has had a full year under the Texans system. Plus, Watson had plenty of film study of himself, and his opponents. Which is another reason to assume improvements across the board as opposed to regression.

That Watson's season was "historically rare" in regards to statistical analysis should be of no surprise. If you saw him play with your own two eyes. Transcendent talents tend to accomplish historically rare feats.

 

[frethack]

I did. I didn’t see anything out of the norm. Until you got to Texian’s posts.

What I read were fans that didn’t have faith in the organization to draft, develop and have good fortune in a franchise QB. I also saw the pessimism of the OL to keep him healthy and the fact he has been injured before he could get injured again behind this patchwork line.

What is unusual about that?

Read a little further until you get to the questions about his arm strength. I had a good time reading that

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Fred]

I believe the hit that "initially" got the knee came from the right side of the Oline. The defender blew past jackomini and jumped over the RB and rolled into Watson's leg.

Brown also got beat. Even if his guy didn't hit Watson until a microsecond later, if Brown had blocked him Watson could have moved away from Jacko's guy.

 

[TexansBull]

Read a little further until you get to the questions about his arm strength. I had a good time reading that

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Can you blame them though? The results were the results and it traditionally is supposed to mean something. That’s all they had to go off of. If anything Watson proved he had a bad day that day.

 

[edromeo]

Can you blame them though? The results were the results and it traditionally is supposed to mean something. That’s all they had to go off of. If anything Watson proved he had a bad day that day.

But the "reports" of Watson's strength weren't official...at all.
There was far more proof that he had plus level arm strength then not. Watching him play, Sports Science (scientific calculations of velocity) and most scouting reporting all opposed the unscientific unofficial "report" of his velocity.

Watson proved that the moment wasn't too big for him, he was one of the most accurate QBs that day, he had much crisper footwork then your typical "spread" QB.

 

[steelbtexan]

He was banged up in the Seattle game.. which I'm positive led to the knee giving out in practice..

The same exact thing happened to him in college.. suffered a knee sprain in the game, tore the knee completely in the following practice.

So yes, my worries were about him playing behind last year's line as a rookie were completely justified and sadly what I feared would happen, did happen.

I wanted Tom Savage taking those hits behind that wet tissue paper we called a offensive line last year, but Tom Savage couldn't even hold up to a hit from a wiffle bat so it wouldn't of mattered anyways.

I don't remember anyone saying Tom Savage was the future, it was mostly about if Watson should start year one or not.

1000 times this

Anything else is revisionist history.

 

[steelbtexan]

To be fair to O'Brien, Watson wasn't the starter in week 1, and the week 2 game was in Cincy on a Thursday night. Not a lot of time to make changes.

I like numbers. But, what is seen with the eyes has to be taken into consideration when evaluating numbers.


I think that the sack numbers can go down. Besides the Texans attempt at improving the O-line play, I would suggest that Watson will improve his recognition of pass coverages. That, combined with his quick release, should allow the ball to come out more quickly and reduce not only sacks but pressures. Which should reduce interceptions.

While I don't pretend to know the formula used in DVOA. I don't know why Watson can't continue to be successful on short passes. Watson's release is extraordinarily quick. His receiving corps is adept at making defenders miss in the open field. And the Texans have invested in picks at TE that should help the efficiency in short, underneath routes. Whether, Deshaun will be as efficient on deep passes is debatable, that doesn't preclude him from continuing to be among the best.

Finally, Watson did spend time rehabbing his injury. But, he also was on the field in mini camp. And he has had a full year under the Texans system. Plus, Watson had plenty of film study of himself, and his opponents. Which is another reason to assume improvements across the board as opposed to regression.

That Watson's season was "historically rare" in regards to statistical analysis should be of no surprise. If you saw him play with your own two eyes. Transcendent talents tend to accomplish historically rare feats.

I hope you're right I drafted Watson on my FF team.

 

[Uncle Rico]

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...coach-says-qb-deshaun-watson-playing-torn-acl

Not worried.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Why would you be?

 

[Uncle Rico]

 

[TexansBull]

But the "reports" of Watson's strength weren't official...at all.
There was far more proof that he had plus level arm strength then not. Watching him play, Sports Science (scientific calculations of velocity) and most scouting reporting all opposed the unscientific unofficial "report" of his velocity.

Watson proved that the moment wasn't too big for him, he was one of the most accurate QBs that day, he had much crisper footwork then your typical "spread" QB.

It was at the combine that he scored low on velocity. That’s pretty official and from what I remember made people concerned. It wasn’t a random scouting report.

And like I said, Watson has done well to show he had an off day that day.

 

[amazing80]

It was at the combine that he scored low on velocity. That’s pretty official and from what I remember made people concerned. It wasn’t a random scouting report.

And like I said, Watson has done well to show he had an off day that day.

Combine velocity is not official at all. They don’t line up and have a velocity contest. Some guys concentrate on touch and accuracy while there.

 

[edo783]

Combine velocity is not official at all. They don’t line up and have a velocity contest. Some guys concentrate on touch and accuracy while there.

Yup, they are much more interested in making sure the throw is on target and catchab than throwing one with a vapor trail. That were no small Windows that needed a fast ball to make work. Fortunately for us, it seems some folks paid more attention to gossip than they should have and he fell to us.

 

[TexansBull]

Combine velocity is not official at all. They don’t line up and have a velocity contest. Some guys concentrate on touch and accuracy while there.

While I am not disagreeing with you, but major sports news outlets used it as a talking point.

You can’t fault the posters when the major sports outlets are using the data and hold it against the poster and demand an apology.

 

[Texansballer74]

While I am not disagreeing with you, but major sports news outlets used it as a talking point.

You can’t fault the posters when the major sports outlets are using the data and hold it against the poster and demand an apology.

Haha it was the main topic of discussion. They do that to every new thing that hits the market.

 

[ObsiWan]

While I am not disagreeing with you, but major sports news outlets used it as a talking point.

You can’t fault the posters when the major sports outlets are using the data and hold it against the poster and demand an apology.

Oh but I can blame posters that don't bother to ask enough questions to know that its valid data and know what sort of actual testing is behind that number.
The 40-yd dash, bench press, high jump, cone drills... those are actual tests. That velocity number was a guess, with, as edo said, no specific, structured test behind it.

 

[TexansBull]

Haha it was the main topic of discussion. They do that to every new thing that hits the market.

No it wasn’t.

Oh but I can blame posters that don't bother to ask enough questions to know that its valid data and know what sort of actual testing is behind that number.
The 40-yd dash, bench press, high jump, cone drills... those are actual tests. That velocity number was a guess, with, as edo said, no specific, structured test behind it.

So because the major sports news outlets and local news outlets used it as in a way to be perceived as credible you are going to hold it against Everyday Joe. Gotcha.

 

[JPPT1974]

No need to apologize at all. As getting hurt was beyond his control. And that he not only is a great QB and will if he keeps healthy. But a class act person all around from what I hear.

 

[Carr Bombed]

When the nuclear apocalypse happens there's going to be two things that survive.. cockroaches and this thread.

 

[ObsiWan]

So because the major sports news outlets and local news outlets used it as in a way to be perceived as credible you are going to hold it against Everyday Joe. Gotcha.

Yeah, I do. "They" (media types) have made me cynical over time and I check to see where their info comes from.

In my old job you didn't put your name on data/information unless you could trace it back to it's source and knew it was good info.
So maybe it is just me.

 

[IDEXAN]

When the nuclear apocalypse happens there's going to be two things that survive.. cockroaches and this thread.

That's a good one Carr-B !

 

[edromeo]

It was at the combine that he scored low on velocity. That’s pretty official and from what I remember made people concerned. It wasn’t a random scouting report.

And like I said, Watson has done well to show he had an off day that day.

No worries we're all in agreement now....but at the time people chose to believe that "report" despite the posters who posted actual accurate and credible information that said the opposite.

While I am not disagreeing with you, but major sports news outlets used it as a talking point.

You can’t fault the posters when the major sports outlets are using the data and hold it against the poster and demand an apology.

It just guys talking, and i'm not trying to make you defensive........I don't hold any opinion against anyone, no one is demanding an apology that's silly. The thread just asks a common sport message board question about perceptions, takes that proved to be wrong...like the one about Watson's lack of arm strength.

It's all good though, all i'm saying is that there were plenty of people that discredited, posted information, and discussed the 'report' of Watson having a weak arm as soon as it came out. The fact of the matter is that some people chose to believe those reports because they already believed it was true (confirmation bias and all that jazz).

 

[thetexanator]

no way man. i need a qb that can gun it into the wr.

 

[steelbtexan]

No worries we're all in agreement now....but at the time people chose to believe that "report" despite the posters who posted actual accurate and credible information that said the opposite.

It just guys talking, and i'm not trying to make you defensive........I don't hold any opinion against anyone, no one is demanding an apology that's silly. The thread just asks a common sport message board question about perceptions, takes that proved to be wrong...like the one about Watson's lack of arm strength.

It's all good though, all i'm saying is that there were plenty of people that discredited, posted information, and discussed the 'report' of Watson having a weak arm as soon as it came out. The fact of the matter is that some people chose to believe those reports because they already believed it was true (confirmation bias and all that jazz).

I thought he would be a top 15 QB due to mid range accuracy issues. After Brady endorsed Watson, that was good enough for me.

I did predict that Watson would get hurt behind that OL and wanted Savage to start because of this.

 

[JB]

I thought he would be a top 15 QB due to mid range accuracy issues. After Brady endorsed Watson, that was good enough for me.

I did predict that Watson would get hurt behind that OL and wanted Savage to start because of this.

Only reason anyone of us wanted Savage to start

 

[austins23]

Pretty good read about Watson here from SI. Apologies if it's been posted already.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/21/deshaun-watson-houston-texans-injury-return

From the beginning, Watson looked at his injury not as the saddest of setbacks but as yet another strange—but familiar—twist in his career. He had gone from the 12th-best high school football player (according to one ranking service) to the No. 12 pick in the NFL draft. He hadn’t been the opening day starter in his freshman year at Clemson or in his rookie season in Houston. Then he quickly took over both teams—only to have each of those campaigns end when he tore the same ligament, once on each leg.

Before the most recent surgery, a week after his fall, Watson joked to then Texans GM Rick Smith that he hoped history would repeat itself. He had, after all, gone 28–2 at Clemson after his return from shredding the ACL in his left knee, twice reaching the national championship game.

 

[TexansBull]

Only reason anyone of us wanted Savage to start

And trade bait. We traded Matt Schaub. We traded for Ryan Mallett. Why couldn’t we trade Savage? Getting a fifth or a sixth would have been been the goal.

 

[TexansBull]

No worries we're all in agreement now....but at the time people chose to believe that "report" despite the posters who posted actual accurate and credible information that said the opposite.

It just guys talking, and i'm not trying to make you defensive........I don't hold any opinion against anyone, no one is demanding an apology that's silly. The thread just asks a common sport message board question about perceptions, takes that proved to be wrong...like the one about Watson's lack of arm strength.

It's all good though, all i'm saying is that there were plenty of people that discredited, posted information, and discussed the 'report' of Watson having a weak arm as soon as it came out. The fact of the matter is that some people chose to believe those reports because they already believed it was true (confirmation bias and all that jazz).

I think that makes sense.

I just wish this thread would die a quick painful death.

 

[santo]

And trade bait. We traded Matt Schaub. We traded for Ryan Mallett. Why couldn’t we trade Savage? Getting a fifth or a sixth would have been been the goal.

Daryl Morey could have gotten us Leveon Bell for Savage and a 6th round pick.

 

[rmartin65]

It is still very early... But this thread could be a fun read in the future.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Daryl Morey could have gotten us Leveon Bell for Savage and a 6th round pick.

Only for Bell to disappear sometime in the playoffs when he is really needed the most

 

[Hervoyel]

The first thing I'm going to do when I get my apology in the mail from Bob McNair and Bill O'Brien is get to work on that apology to DW4.

Seriously, it's a the top of my list of things to do.

 

[Mr teX]

Kevin Johnson doesn’t need to see the field again

 

[Uncle Rico]

I'd like to apologize to Watson ahead of time for wasting years of his career running an inept offensive scheme by a substandard coach.

 

[steelbtexan]

I would like to apologize to waton and ask him to quit turning the ball over so much.