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Andrew Luck, shoulder surgery

CloakNNNdagger said:
Jim Irsay insists optimism about Andrew Luck was “completely warranted”
Posted by Josh Alper on January 1, 2018, 5:12 PM EST

Colts owner Jim Irsay took part in a press conference with General Manager Chris Ballard on Monday that was ostensibly about the decision to fire head coach Chuck Pagano after six seasons on the job.

That decision may not have been made if quarterback Andrew Luck played at all during the 2017 season and that meant that Luck’s health was a big topic of discussion. So was Irsay’s vow that Luck would be ready for the start of the season after having right shoulder surgery last offseason, something that has been widely criticized as an intentional misrepresentation given how things played out.

On Monday, Irsay pushed back at that interpretation. He said that his optimism in Luck’s return was “completely warranted” and that he would never have believed that Luck would be out for so long. Irsay then doubled down on the optimism when it came to Luck’s status for the 2018 season.

Irsay said that Luck would be back with “fierce fire in his eyes” and that it is “really exciting” to see the progress that Luck has made in his recovery. Irsay went on and on, making it clear he has “no doubt” that Luck is going to return to do “great things” as an NFL quarterback.

Luck was less fiery during his own press conference last week, but did say he expects to be ready for the offseason program this year.

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What progress?............he is still not throwing! Irsay must be getting into more than alcohol now. He must also be finding it "really exciting" to watch grass grow.:kitten:
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CNNND, any chance that his shoulder injury has progressed into "Frozen Shoulder"? A frozen shoulder is absolutely debilitating and could take up to a couple of years to heal. My wife had a frozen shoulder and it took two years to heal and she regained full movement with no pain. Crazy thing, that one healed and then the other shoulder suffered the same crap, only this time it was a two and half year process to heal. I'm either dealing with a labrum tear in my right shoulder or I to might be dealing with the beginnings of a frozen shoulder. Since I'm a lefty, I'm not nearly as hampered but it's a pain. I've been working out the shoulder since the injury (6 months) on my own. According to my Physical Therapist, the pro-active approach I took might be what's really saving me from suffering the full effects of frozen shoulder.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
CNNND, any chance that his shoulder injury has progressed into "Frozen Shoulder"? A frozen shoulder is absolutely debilitating and could take up to a couple of years to heal. My wife had a frozen shoulder and it took two years to heal and she regained full movement with no pain. Crazy thing, that one healed and then the other shoulder suffered the same crap, only this time it was a two and half year process to heal. I'm either dealing with a labrum tear in my right shoulder or I to might be dealing with the beginnings of a frozen shoulder. Since I'm a lefty, I'm not nearly as hampered but it's a pain. I've been working out the shoulder since the injury (6 months) on my own. According to my Physical Therapist, the pro-active approach I took might be what's really saving me from suffering the full effects of frozen shoulder.
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"Frozen shoulder" is usually a function of deformity and/or scarred tissue of the joint surfaces. The longer post trauma or postsurgery the joint is not mobilized, the greater the chance frozen shoulder occurs. It is not unusual that post modified radical mastectomy breast cancer patients patients that are not encouraged to maintain good ROM (range of motion) in their mastectomy shoulder side, that they will develop a "frozen shoulder" despite the fact that they have not sustained direct trauma to their shoulder joint or surgery of the joint. These patients many times tend to avoid movement of their shoulder because of the pain caused by the mastectomy and the trauma this surgery imposes on the pectoralis major muscle.

Whatever the origin of the "frozen shoulder," conservative ROM therapy can be expected to "spontaneously" resolve most of the problem in 1-3 years. However, most elite athletes like Luck will have had all the proper intensive postoperative rehab to minimize this problem to begin with. If for whatever reason, the shoulder was not responding to this, the gold standard would be to perform a manipulation of his shoulder under anesthesia. Essentially, this entails placing the player under anesthesia and almost barbarically tearing the scar tissue formed by forcing full range of motion. When I have performed this procedure, you can not only feel the shoulder scar tissue breaking up but also hear the loud "crackling" as the scar tissue is released.

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Within 3 weeks, pain, daily activity level and ROM were all significantly improved........and pretty much continued long term. When this procedure is performed following surgery, the level of improvement of these parameters are somewhat lower than when performed strictly post trauma (without surgery) or when the origin is unknown (iodiopathic). When the manipulation under anesthesia does not demonstrate significant improvement because too much scar tissue built up or joint deformity present, the scar breakup can be facilitated by simultaneous arthroscopic "clean up."

I find it quite curious that after all of this time, Luck and/or his doctors have been very reluctant to perform a simple arthroscopy in order to at least rule out pathology that has not been revealed on MRI..........not uncommon since arthroscopy can commonly pick up pathology the MRI cannot.
 
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Glad you folks do that under anesthesia. Ouch big time if you didn't. Colts moves in the draft will likely tell us more about Lucks shoulder. If they take a QB in any of the 1st two rounds, that should tell us what they are afraid they are really facing. Of course they could all be on a boat trip on the river Nile.
 
I remember somebody saying that Andrew Luck should retire a few years ago. At first I thought it was silly talk but if he can't get back on the field then why not just retire and try to enjoy a long and healthy life? What's the point of sticking around? I guess the money factors in but I don't think Luck will be back in 2018, and if he is, it will be less than four games played.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I remember somebody saying that Andrew Luck should retire a few years ago. At first I thought it was silly talk but if he can't get back on the field then why not just retire and try to enjoy a long and healthy life? What's the point of sticking around? I guess the money factors in but I don't think Luck will be back in 2018, and if he is, it will be less than four games played.
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Athletes have ego's... and even a few million now can make a difference. There is not many Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Robert Smith type players out there, and the only QB I can think of is Staubach
 
Colts reveal Andrew Luck isn’t throwing a football, but insist he’s ‘in a good place’

Posted 4:46 PM, February 7, 2018, by Mike Chappell, Updated at 04:51PM, February 7, 2018
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If "in a good place" means watching football, not playing football, the Colts are finally accurate. At this rate, he is unlikely to be throwing footballs in such a way that proves that he will be able to play in a game for at least another 3 months. To me, the fact that no one has verified the status of his shoulder joint with a simple scope, tells me that Luck, the Colts and/or the Colts medical staff are being entirely short-sighted, hoping and praying that their rehab is blindly rehabbing the correct issue.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If "in a good place" means watching football, not playing football, the Colts are finally accurate. At this rate, he is unlikely to be throwing footballs in such a way that proves that he will be able to play in a game for at least another 3 months. To me, the fact that no one has verified the status of his shoulder joint with a simple scope, tells me that Luck, the Colts and/or the Colts medical staff are being entirely short-sighted, hoping and praying that their rehab is blindly rehabbing the correct issue.
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With the money invested, if I were Irsay I'd be very tempted to give Luck another season of rehabilitation to avoid the whole rushing back onto the field too soon issue. The Colts could invest a low round pick on a young QB in the event Luck doesn't make it back but there shouldn't be no rush, they got Brissett for 2018 / 2019 and Kaaya still developing. IR Luck and sign an inexpensive veteran to compete with Kaaya for the QB2 spot.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
With the money invested, if I were Irsay I'd be very tempted to give Luck another season of rehabilitation to avoid the whole rushing back onto the field too soon issue. The Colts could invest a low round pick on a young QB in the event Luck doesn't make it back but there shouldn't be no rush, they got Brissett for 2018 / 2019 and Kaaya still developing. IR Luck and sign an inexpensive veteran to compete with Kaaya for the QB2 spot.
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You are taking for granted that Luck has a situation that actually lends itself to rehabilitation.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
You are taking for granted that Luck has a situation that actually lends itself to rehabilitation.
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As an organization with that kind of faith and money invested in Luck....all you can do is sit back and hope for the best. If the team and/or outside Doctors feel that the injury is beyond repair, then it's time for the team to wake-up and smell the coffee but they can't cut their losses until 2019...like I mentioned, another season of rehabilitating that shoulder is a nothing ventured, nothing lost proposition. If he does bounce back physically, the team is still operating with a "cap saving" out from 2019 thru 2021 in the event his game doesn't return to form.
 
Just trying to read the tea leaves, it seems to me that the Colts are whistling by the grave yard with all thier fingers and toes crossed when they are fairly sure he isn't going to make it back. Not wanting to alarm the fan base.
 
edo783 said:
Just trying to read the tea leaves, it seems to me that the Colts are whistling by the grave yard with all thier fingers and toes crossed when they are fairly sure he isn't going to make it back. Not wanting to alarm the fan base.
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Yes, that appears to be the situation the find themselves in.
 
I know this is our division rival and we're supposed to be encouraged by anything that weakens them and makes us stronger. I can't help but be disappointed about Luck though. He was dang near perfect and a big part of me is curious about what could've been if he stayed healthy. Well ... if he stayed healthy and wasn't shackled to the Colt's horrid roster.
 
In this (Jan 19, 2017) and several other posts, early on I brought up my concern of Luck having a rotator cuff injury in addition to the labrum tear. With only the labrum being surgically addressed (a rotator cuff injury never admitted to), and with the empiric 50% labrum surgery success rate in an overhead athlete to begin with...............if the Colts and Luck are hoping a significant rotator cuff injury will heal on its own with the help of rehab, his chance for return and/or return to any decent performance is even more unlikely.

CloakNNNdagger said:
This surgery was almost inevitable. It all started with a subluxation of his shoulder. It was later exacerbated by an attempt for him to make a tackle. He was found to have a "frayed labrum" (frequently accompanied by rotator cuff tears and ligament stretching) which in the past I pointed out does not heal on its own. If this happened to most of us, strengthening of the rotator cuff/shoulder stabilizing muscles could be enough to result in complete rehab. However, despite what I believed was very unrealistic reports that his injury would not extend and was not something that would effect his performance, the Colts continued to present this face. That is because this type of injury was in an overhead throwing athlete, where repeated motions that cannot be avoided are bound to progress the destruction of the labrum structure and other shoulder structures..........creating significant instability of the shoulder girdle. No doubt, the Colts and Luck were trying to avoid surgery at all costs because in overhead athlete (such as pitchers and quarterbacks), surgery is a crap shoot...........the success rate is very unpredictable...........~50%. The 3 month return to throwing is unrealistic as well.....at least any competitive throwing. With this type of surgery, you are lucky to resolve the pain factor by 4-6 months.........TC/preseason is a target which will be difficult to meet...............and return to peak performance for those 50% that do return to play is unlikely before 12 months. Luck and the Colts have a more difficult climb than what is being purported, and their competitiveness in the AFC must be considered a significant question mark at this point.
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wonder if Josh Mcdaniels got more or new info on this that impacted his decision to coach Colts?
 
Ian Rappaport has reported that Luck has recently been in California meeting with throwing experts (from what I can gather, throwing and strength coaches Tom House and Adam Dedeaux in Los Angeles), who have been monitoring the progress of his recovery. He is yet to throw a football. The Colts and Luck insist that he will be ready for TC.
 
Luck also said he has been throwing a little bit, but he wasn’t specific about what he was throwing. General manager Chris Ballard said last week that Luck had not yet started flinging footballs.
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link

Usually, a shoulder-rehabbing QB will be starting off with a nerf ball for only several feet............hardly anything to get excited about as it takes very little muscle strength to accomplish and places very little stress on the shoulder.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Ian Rappaport has reported that Luck has recently been in California meeting with throwing experts (from what I can gather, throwing and strength coaches Tom House and Adam Dedeaux in Los Angeles), who have been monitoring the progress of his recovery. He is yet to throw a football. The Colts and Luck insist that he will be ready for TC.
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House really is a guru.

The colts also insisted that he would be ready for the 1st game this time last yr.
 
Dear Andrew,

Take your time on that rehab. In fact we think you should take next season and the season after to make sure you're fully recovered. We wouldn't want you to have any setbacks.

Signed, the rest of the AFC South
 
I don't think we should be afraid of Luck anymore. He'll be 29 this season which coincidentally is the number of shoulder surgeries he's had lol. Even if he comes back a super badass QB, it won't be long. Age and injuries will have sapped him of the potential he had; IMO.
 

Ian RapoportVerified account@RapSheet
From @NFLTotalAccess: #Colts QB Andrew Luck is throwing weighted balls, full-speed ahead for 2018 and his shoulder is fine (it's just the parts around the shoulder now).
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And what is "around the shoulder"?........the rotator cuff tendons and muscles (see below) which envelop and give stability to the shoulder. This is consistent with my past assertions that he had also sustained a rotator cuff tear which was not surgically addressed or possibly not successfully addressed.


images
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If "in a good place" means watching football, not playing football, the Colts are finally accurate. At this rate, he is unlikely to be throwing footballs in such a way that proves that he will be able to play in a game for at least another 3 months. To me, the fact that no one has verified the status of his shoulder joint with a simple scope, tells me that Luck, the Colts and/or the Colts medical staff are being entirely short-sighted, hoping and praying that their rehab is blindly rehabbing the correct issue.
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They could also be being realistic and just not saying what they all suspect which in this case might be that it's time for the Colts to start looking for a new long-term answer at QB. Maybe (Just speculating of course) he's done if they're making that little effort to be sure they've actually fixed the right issue and he's coming to terms with where this is headed?
 
PapaL said:
I don't think we should be afraid of Luck anymore. He'll be 29 this season which coincidentally is the number of shoulder surgeries he's had lol. Even if he comes back a super badass QB, it won't be long. Age and injuries will have sapped him of the potential he had; IMO.
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To be honest, I never was afraid of Luck. That was one over-hyped QB. Statistically, Matt Schaub (08-12) had comparable, if not better numbers than Luck ever has. Better passer rating, better completion percentage, better Y/A, better QBR, both right around 2/1 TD to INT, pretty even yards per game.

Now, he may have gotten much better if not for the injuries, but as it stands, not that impressed and certainly not deserving of the hype.
 
Andrew Luck: I’m not a perfect feeling athlete right now
Posted by Josh Alper on April 9, 2018, 2:15 PM EDT

Colts quarterback Andrew Luck hit the podium for a chat with media members at the team’s facility on Monday and the main takeaway was that he still has work to do in his return from missing all of last season due to a right shoulder injury.

Luck said that he’s “not a perfect feeling athlete right now” and continues to have his sights set on being ready for training camp this summer. Luck said he thought he “pushed a little too hard” in his attempt to return to action after having surgery last year and that he’s not going to skip any steps along the way this time as a result.

Luck also updated his progress when it comes to throwing the ball. Colts coach Frank Reich said late last month that Luck is throwing footballs, but Luck said Monday that he has not yet advanced to the point that he’s throwing regulation-size balls.

Given the disparity between the Colts’ promises last year and the reality of Luck’s situation, that admission will serve as fuel to skeptics who think Luck’s return is anything but guaranteed this time around. Luck did say that there’s a timetable in place for him to move to the next step in his throwing program, although he passed on the chance to reveal what it looked like while saying several times that he’s making progress.

“I need to stay this course,” Luck said.

The Colts will hope that Luck comes to the finish line this time, but there’s clearly still some road left to travel before he gets there.

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Luck is 15 months removed from his shoulder surgery...........and still has not thrown a regulation football.
 
When will Andre Luck be wise about his situation and retire? At this point his qualify of life should outweigh playing in the NFL. Is he just going to milk all of those millions of dollars and act like he's going to play?
 
Bulls on Parade said:
When will Andre Luck be wise about his situation and retire? At this point his qualify of life should outweigh playing in the NFL. Is he just going to milk all of those millions of dollars and act like he's going to play?
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He's getting millions of dollars
 
I don’t know where the colts are drafting but if I were them I would be looking for a QB.

You can’t go through the last two years like them and hitch you wagon to a player who says after a year and half of missing football or more that he still doesn’t feel well.

But hey, it’s the colts so I hope they draft a kicker in the first round.
 
Colts paid the price for letting Andrew Luck play hurt
April 10, 2018, 9:23 AM EDT


As Robert Griffin III limped through a playoff loss at the end of his rookie year, social media lit up with people asking why Washington was leaving him in the game. As it turned out, Griffin came off the field only when he had to be helped off because he suffered a severe knee injury, and the second player selected in the 2012 NFL draft was never the same again.

The team that selected the first quarterback in the 2012 NFL draft should have learned from that.

Instead, when Andrew Luck hurt his throwing shoulder in 2015, the Colts allowed him to play through the injury. Luck acknowledged on Monday that he shouldn’t have played through injury, and although he blamed himself, the Colts as an organization have to accept some of the blame, too.

When you have a franchise quarterback like Luck, a player who you’re expecting to lead your team for another decade or more, a player you’re going to invest in with the biggest contract in NFL history, you keep him safe. The Colts didn’t, and Luck says he never fully healed from that 2015 injury and it ultimately led to him missing the entire 2017 season.

This isn’t just hindsight; I tweeted while watching him play in 2015 that he shouldn’t have been out there — and that if he was healthy enough to play, his noticeable decline as a passer was inexplicable.


As it turns out, the explanation is that Luck was playing through an injury that should have sidelined him. The Colts lost their franchise quarterback for a year in 2017 because they didn’t give him the rest he needed in 2015. Now they can only hope he eventually returns to form.

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This is not different than what the Texans did to Watt or Clowney. There is no substitute for addressing significant injuries head on in a timely fashion, and allowing adequate time to complete rehab.
 
Thursday May provide a fairly good idea of where he really is. If they take a QB in the first two rounds of the draft, then he is very likely done. Dang shame if so and the dumbass Dolts are to fault. I know he pushed them to play, but the adults have to protect the kids from themselves.
 
Thursday May provide a fairly good idea of where he really is. If they take a QB in the first two rounds of the draft, then he is very likely done. Dang shame if so and the dumbass Dolts are to fault. I know he pushed them to play, but the adults have to protect the kids from themselves.
 
edo783 said:
I know he pushed them to play, but the adults have to protect the kids from themselves.
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Kids are stupid. My parents have been trying to get me to stop riding sportbikes for 36 years. My right shoulder is shredded. But I can still pull a bow (straight back works). Can't throw a ball. That over the top motion sounds like rice crispies - snap, crackle, pop.

Luck got to play on the big stage. I'm sure he wouldn't trade the experience. And he went to the largest Taco Bell in the world (Stanford).

Seriously it's Taco Bell gone wild:
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And yes, I'm biased. Still a Taco Bell.
 
infantrycak said:
Kids are stupid. My parents have been trying to get me to stop riding sportbikes for 36 years. My right shoulder is shredded. But I can still pull a bow (straight back works). Can't throw a ball. That over the top motion sounds like rice crispies - snap, crackle, pop.

Luck got to play on the big stage. I'm sure he wouldn't trade the experience. And he went to the largest Taco Bell in the world (Stanford).

Seriously it's Taco Bell gone wild:
57030100.JPG

And yes, I'm biased. Still a Taco Bell.
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Ain't never seen a Taco Bell that nice.
Ever.
:)
 
ObsiWan said:
Ain't never seen a Taco Bell that nice.
Ever.
:)
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Silver spoon is an understatement. They can drop classes the day of the final exam.

Gotta love:

John Elway was the QB that day.

Actually the funniest thing was Oski the bear decked the Stanford tree mascot. Just laid him out. What the hell, mascot violence. He's all Care Bear one moment and then went ape. We're just cracking up as a bear pounds a tree. Surreal.
 
Until Luck can get back on the field I am not too sure anyone would trade for him, at least no trade of great significance.

Prove it contract at best. At least that's the way I see it.

I'm just hoping JJ fares better. He's been through hell.

:coffee:
 
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