Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Andre Johnson

Marcus

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth for starting this thread, but I seriously really do wonder if this guy is all that he's cracked up to be.

I mean, this guy is 6'3" at 220, and supposedly runs a 4.3, right?

So why is it that he never gets open on a deep route? It's taken for granted that he's Carr's primary receiver. Carr looks for him more than anyone else. How come he never gets separation? Chad Johnson does it for Carson Palmer. Marvin Harrison does it for Peyton Manning. TO does it for whoever the quarterback is. So does Randy Moss.

Double coverage is a non-starter here. All primary receivers are double covered. Not having a decent 2nd receiver is an excuse I take issue with also.

Is he just not that quick? I'd love to see what his time in the short shuttle was in the combine, as compared to his 40 time.

And what about jump balls? Why is that when Carr goes deep to AJ, it's always a jumpball with the cornerback who is covering like a blanket? Again, no separation. But even then, when you have a 6'3" going up against a 5'8" in those situations, like last night, you'd think there would be better results.

Carr gets a lot of money, and right now he's not earning it, but I don't think AJ is earning those big bucks either. I expect more production from such an 'elite' receiver. Right now, I think he's overrated.
 
He played like his hype in 2005. He was getting separation, averaging over 5 yards after each catch, and making jump balls routinely. Last year he was slowed by injury and playcalling. Give him time to re-aquaint himself with the offense, and then judge him. He hasn't had too many throws to him early in the preseason
 
I tend to agree. This is going back to last year as well. Where is his big play ability. Time and time again you see WR make big plays because either the ball is throw with pinpoint accuracy and the WR makes a great catch, or the WR adjusts to the ball when covered. I am not seeing that out of AJ. No way a guy 5'8 should be out leaping Andre Johnson. No way. He did make a clutch slant 3rd down catch, but other than that I am not that impressed with his play making capabilities.
 
I've been saying this for two seasons now but most didn't want to hear it or even think about the possibility...
 
I think he just needs to learn to be more physical. He has to learn to use his hands and long arms for seperation or he will never get open. That is the difference with him and other top receivers. Unfortunately, we got Shanahan's kid as a receivers coach, I don't know him or his credentials, but I think we need experienced coaches at every position at this point. If he doesn't learn to use his large frame for seperation, the CB's in this league will cover him like a blanket every time. All he needs is an extra yard of seperation that he can get from initial contact at the line of scrimmage. He needs to jam the opposing CB and damn near push them down. They're already back peddling so the momentum is in his favor. As long as it's within the legal 5 yards he has every right to be as physical as he wants. (or do it down the field but don't get caught) :spy:
 
The NFL Fastest man competition has been the pinnacle for 2 of our players now:

AJ gets 2nd, falls flat the next year
Mathis hurts his foot

Its like the Texans madden curse. Lets just hope DRob doesn't make it to the probowl this year...wait, what?
 
I remember a couple of tremendous jumping catchs AJ made back in '04.
One against the Chiefs and one in the EZ against I think the Vikings ?
He should have had that ball last night when he had only one-on-one coverage by the little 5' 8" Broncos DB. Frankly, AJ went up for that ball like
he had lead in his tail. Hopefully, it was just a presason effort and not what we'd see from him in the regular season.
 
nunusguy said:
Frankly, AJ went up for that ball like
he had lead in his tail. Hopefully, it was just a presason effort and not what we'd see from him in the regular season.
Click to expand...

I thought he was off balance and didn't really get his feet under him.
 
Dre is fine, but on the deep ball, he has got to use his vert to get that ball.

Thats him he has got to get that ball.
 
Runner said:
I thought he was off balance and didn't really get his feet under him.
Click to expand...

Wow, was it so difficult to see? He was friggin off balance; he botched one reception, let the guy be for it.

Andre is like anybody else in the offense; adjusting to a new scheme. He and DC need a little time to rediscover themselves now. IMO Andre is TO without the attitude.

You people slay me.
 
jerek said:
Wow, was it so difficult to see? He was friggin off balance; he botched one reception, let the guy be for it.

Andre is like anybody else in the offense; adjusting to a new scheme. He and DC need a little time to rediscover themselves now. IMO Andre is TO without the attitude.

You people slay me.
Click to expand...

No slaying here. I agree with you. If DC settles down, he'd be even better. Andre is bigger than TO too.:redtowel:
 
jerek said:
Wow, was it so difficult to see?
Click to expand...

Apparently so. I think that single play is being over analyzed. Dre had better push for his 100 receptions this year though. I know he wants them.
 
The previous staff drafted a race horse and turned him into a plow mule . AJ will get open deep when the Texans run play action after getting 4.5 yds a pop .
 
Marcus said:
I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth for starting this thread, but I seriously really do wonder if this guy is all that he's cracked up to be.

I mean, this guy is 6'3" at 220, and supposedly runs a 4.3, right?

So why is it that he never gets open on a deep route? It's taken for granted that he's Carr's primary receiver. Carr looks for him more than anyone else. How come he never gets separation? Chad Johnson does it for Carson Palmer. Marvin Harrison does it for Peyton Manning. TO does it for whoever the quarterback is. So does Randy Moss.

Double coverage is a non-starter here. All primary receivers are double covered. Not having a decent 2nd receiver is an excuse I take issue with also.

Is he just not that quick? I'd love to see what his time in the short shuttle was in the combine, as compared to his 40 time.

And what about jump balls? Why is that when Carr goes deep to AJ, it's always a jumpball with the cornerback who is covering like a blanket? Again, no separation. But even then, when you have a 6'3" going up against a 5'8" in those situations, like last night, you'd think there would be better results.

Carr gets a lot of money, and right now he's not earning it, but I don't think AJ is earning those big bucks either. I expect more production from such an 'elite' receiver. Right now, I think he's overrated.
Click to expand...

You won't get kicked from me. I have been saying that for a while. AJ IMO has played like an average #1 or a top #2 thus far in his career. 6'3 220 and getting out muscled by 5'8 180? To add insult to injury, buy a CB that isn't anything special.

AJ needs to learn to be more physical and not get out muscled. He needs to learn to get separation from the defender. By no means is AJ an elite receiver yet. This is his fourth year, but like Carr, is learning a different system. AJ and Carr have 0 chemistry together and never look like they are on the same page.

That is what I was complaining about during the off season. Instead of him being in Miami he needed to be here with his QB building a relationship together. Chad Johnson used to sleep at the facility and hangs out with Palmer and Manning and Harrison are in each others heads at all times.

Although I will say this, I saw AJ on one of his completions break his route and come back to the ball. I don't recall seeing that the first four years.

In an indirect way Carr and AJ holds each others futures in there hands. Both of them are going to have to do a better job of helping out one another if they are going to stay Houston Texans.

But that is just my opinion.
 
Apparently you people forget that a receiver needs his QB to get him the ball. Otherwise, we might as well put the best blocker we can find out there and pay him 150k a year.

How you know that Andre "never creates any separation" or "never gets open on a deep route" is beyond me, since prior to this season, the telecast was focused squarely on David Carr getting sacked in the pocket. This year, Carr has thrown a lot of short passes; either by design of offense, or unwillingness to test the long ball. I'd go primarily with (a) though clearly it is some of (b), but that is more an indictment of David Carr having nerves than it is his belief in Andre's skill.

If you'll remember the Jacksonville home game last year (might be asking a bit much, since people on this board routinely use qualifiers such as "never" -- meaning, never this game, or never this quarter -- Carr hit Andre on a deep post across the middle; plenty of separation, beautiful ball, easy TD. Andre screwed up his jump of the ball last night, but cut him a break for pete's sake; not everyone makes every play perfectly.

Andre is long on talent and upside and I think he is poised to have a breakout year. The T.O. comparison stems from their obvious similarities in physical gifts. Talk about cutting him if you'd like, but barring injury, I'll still be here for you to kiss my feet and ask forgiveness when the season's up.
 
last year the Texans never really threw deep. It was the system they ran. If at the end of this season AJ does not rebound to his old form, then I would start asking questions.

I am willing to give the guy a chance before I become part of any lynch mob.

regarding getting out jumped by the guy who is 5'8"....if you watch the replay AJ was off balance and wasn't in position to really go up and get it.
 
I don't think anyone is ready to cut AJ, I think people are just saying he is not playing up to his ability and not earning his big contract, the same thing a lot of people say about Carr. And it doesn't matter if Carr is throwing short passes for whatever reason, elite WR's make plays/gain yards after the catch.
 
texan279 said:
I don't think anyone is ready to cut AJ, I think people are just saying he is not playing up to his ability and not earning his big contract, the same thing a lot of people say about Carr. And it doesn't matter if Carr is throwing short passes for whatever reason, elite WR's make plays/gain yards after the catch.
Click to expand...

My problem is they're saying that after three preseason games (6 quarters) and specifically some of them after one botched catch.
 
If AJ was on the Bengals last year with Palmer who throws the best long ball in the game ... he would be a no doubt pro-bowler . If Chad Johnson was a Texan , he'd be a talented WR who has'nt reached his potential .
 
gtexan02 said:
Its like the Texans madden curse. Lets just hope DRob doesn't make it to the probowl this year...wait, what?
Click to expand...

Basing my assumptions on what i've seen from our secondary thusfar, you won't have to worry about that.
 
jerek said:
My problem is they're saying that after three preseason games (6 quarters) and specifically some of them after one botched catch.
Click to expand...

And some are saying the same about Carr after 3 preseason games. I have already said myself I am giving the entire team the entire season to see what they can do due to the new coaches, players, schemes, etc. I've also always said to people who want to throw Carr under the bus for "underperforming" and "not earning his paycheck" that they better throw AJ under that bus too.
 
texan279 said:
And some are saying the same about Carr after 3 preseason games. I have already said myself I am giving the entire team the entire season to see what they can do due to the new coaches, players, schemes, etc. I've also always said to people who want to throw Carr under the bus for "underperforming" and "not earning his paycheck" that they better throw AJ under that bus too.
Click to expand...

Problem is we're on the same bandwagon here. Way too early to affirmatively know anything on just about any one player; Seth Wand has shown more longevity this preseason than I ever predicted he would. I still think Spencer ultimately gets the nod but at this point the jury should remain out on just about everybody.
 
jerek said:
Problem is we're on the same bandwagon here. Way too early to affirmatively know anything on just about any one player; Seth Wand has shown more longevity this preseason than I ever predicted he would. I still think Spencer ultimately gets the nod but at this point the jury should remain out on just about everybody.
Click to expand...

Yep, I myself am not ready to thorw anyone under the bus for any reason just yet.
 
jerek said:
Apparently you people forget that a receiver needs his QB to get him the ball.

How you know that Andre "never creates any separation" or "never gets open on a deep route" is beyond me, since prior to this season, the telecast was focused squarely on David Carr getting sacked in the pocket.
Click to expand...

Has everyone forgotten 2004? The excitment of him going up for a long ball in double coverage and coming down with it?

2005 he was hurt, the D Line was gimpy, and Carr stunk.

2006, ummm, how many balls have been tossed his way?

We've seen his stuff, but last year he was injured and the team stunk. I don't get this thread...
 
All I have to say is that if Carr doesn't pull it together soon AJ won't be here after his contract ends. Heck, he may even demand a trade before then.
 
jerek said:
Wow, was it so difficult to see? He was friggin off balance; he botched one reception, let the guy be for it..
Click to expand...

More than just one botched catch in pre-season. Its been three years of botched catches and end zone drops and not getting separation.

jerek said:
Andre is like anybody else in the offense; adjusting to a new scheme. He and DC need a little time to rediscover themselves now. IMO Andre is TO without the attitude.

You people slay me.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with the TO but everything else. He is in a new system, but like TO says, an in is an in, an out is an out, and a post is still a post.

Your in the NFL. Everyone can catch and run fast. Even the #4 receiver. Its what you do extra that separates you from every one else. The Harrison's, the TO's, the Rice's, the Johnson's. Those are elite receivers. What did they all have in common? They all give 100% on every play regardless of who's # is called. If the ball is in the air they have the attitude of its no one else's but there's. I don't see that from Johnson. He takes plays off. He trots or jogs. I don't see that fiery "Give me that ball" and rip the ball from the air that the great receivers have.

As I said in a previous post, if this team is going to be successful Carr and Johnson are going to have to build some sort of chemistry together. There Fates lay with one another.

Its not a coincidence that Carr's best year is also Johnson's pro bowl year.
 
Anybody remember TO as a 49er ? He was just OK the first three years and then he took off . Anybody who's been on the Texans for over two years ... you almost have to discount their experience and clean the slate .
 
jerek said:
Apparently you people forget that a receiver needs his QB to get him the ball.

How you know that Andre "never creates any separation" or "never gets open on a deep route" is beyond me, since prior to this season, the telecast was focused squarely on David Carr getting sacked in the pocket. This year, Carr has thrown a lot of short passes; either by design of offense, or unwillingness to test the long ball. I'd go primarily with (a) though clearly it is some of (b), but that is more an indictment of David Carr having nerves than it is his belief in Andre's skill.
Click to expand...

I totally agree on this one. Imagine you sprinting your but off, and everytime you turn around with your hands up for the ball, you see the ball has already been dumped off......


Every now and then, you'll see that stutter step we saw Moulds do when he didn't catch that deep bomb, "Oh..... he is throwing to me"

But If this is the case, I agree 100% they are both professionals, and should give 100% every play, regardless of t he QBs tendancies...... you want your QB to trust that you'll be there, then you need to be there.

hopefully, they were in, "It's just preseason" mode, and we won't see that crap come September.
 
Its tough to judge our first string wr's when Carr is so awful. This is gonna be a long year.
 
Vinny said:
Its tough to judge our first string wr's when Carr is so awful. This is gonna be a long year.
Click to expand...

God, I hate to finally admit it but Carr just doesn't look very good.....It was impossible to make that call his first 4 years with the horrible coaching and lack of talent around him. But the time for excuses is over and it's pretty clear now---Carr is simply not very good.
 
Vinny said:
Its tough to judge our first string wr's when Carr is so awful. This is gonna be a long year.
Click to expand...

TexansFanatic said:
God, I hate to finally admit it but Carr just doesn't look very good.....It was impossible to make that call his first 4 years with the horrible coaching and lack of talent around him. But the time for excuses is over and it's pretty clear now---Carr is simply not very good.
Click to expand...

Oh come on you two. Remember Carr is learning a new system as well. You can't undo 4 years in 3 months. Carr has looked decent but not terrific. The same for AJ.

AJ needs Carr and Carr needs AJ. Pure and simple. The thing you can judge AJ on is when you get out played for the ball, drop the ball, and can never get open.

Sage didn't look any better last night either. Where are all the "Sage should start" guys. He looked like a chump against 2 and 3 stringers. That is just a tough D.

Vinny, tad bit surprised you would come right out and say something like that. You complain when you get flamed and say you are not a Carr hater but then you say "Carr is awful." Now what do you think is about to happen?
 
Not trying to get off track here. But I agree that Carr looked awful last night. His numbers are misleading, and his determination to NOT throw the deep ball, even when he has ample time is trying at times.

Andre should have had that jump ball though. Single coverage against smally mcsmallster. Ill take AJ everytime. Except last night...
 
Oh come on you two. Remember Carr is learning a new system as well. You can't undo 4 years in 3 months. Carr has looked decent but not terrific. The same for AJ
Click to expand...

Well, I'll tell ya what. I'm really looking forward to seeing Carr have a good game. I've been about as patient as I can be. I've never called for his head, and I'm not starting that yet. But I'll be ecstatic when we can come on here on Monday morning and talk about the good game that DC had. There are no more excuses for him, it's either put up or shut up. He's been working under Kubiak's "qb friendly" offense through all of the OTA's, the training camp and three preseason games. By God, I'm ready to see some results.

Oh, and right now I would much rather have Matt Leinhart or Jay Cutler. Come on David, I can't believe I just said that, but I am ready to see some results.

Edited to add that I am sick and tired of DECENT.
 
Super Mario said:
Not trying to get off track here. But I agree that Carr looked awful last night. His numbers are misleading, and his determination to NOT throw the deep ball, even when he has ample time is trying at times.

Andre should have had that jump ball though. Single coverage against smally mcsmallster. Ill take AJ everytime. Except last night...
Click to expand...

If Kubiak is running the offense I think he is running, you are not going to see a lot of deep balls thrown.
 
TEXANRED said:
Vinny, tad bit surprised you would come right out and say something like that. You complain when you get flamed and say you are not a Carr hater but then you say "Carr is awful." Now what do you think is about to happen?
Click to expand...
Carr has played awful and I just tell it how I see it and don't worry that I hurt the homers feelings. I complain when I talk about football and people talk about me...that's what I complain about.

Carr has converted ONE 3rd down in 3 preseason games. I think that is awful. You may think there is "potential" to convert more than one....I see it as a broken glass...and you see it full of kool aide. This forum is a place to share our perceptions. I share mine with you but I don't expect personal attacks when I share mine.
 
In 2004, Andre had worked on his hands and appeared to be past the drops. In 2005, he was back to having the dropsies. He dropped an easy one versus the Rams last week. All receivers drop balls, but AJ has dropped too many easy ones in the past. We'll see how he does this year, but he needs to get back to 2004 form.
 
0 freaking td's in the preseason either....I think the play calling last night was conservative on both teams, but I can't help but notice how the playbook seems a little more open when Sage comes in. I'm definately not saying that Sage is the answer, but I'm ready for David to step it up.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
If AJ was on the Bengals last year with Palmer who throws the best long ball in the game ... he would be a no doubt pro-bowler . If Chad Johnson was a Texan , he'd be a talented WR who has'nt reached his potential .
Click to expand...

I agree. But I'd also add that if Carson Palmer was a Texan last year, people would be thinking he sucked, too.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree. But I'd also add that if Carson Palmer was a Texan last year, people would be thinking he sucked, too.
Click to expand...
I doubt that. I don't think that you can coach up Brian Griese to become John Elway....no matter how much you try. You are what you are.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree. But I'd also add that if Carson Palmer was a Texan last year, people would be thinking he sucked, too.
Click to expand...


I'll go you one better ..... if Palmer was a Texan for the last 4 years, he'd be wearing at least one knee brace .... oh wait, nevermind
 
Vinny said:
I doubt that. I don't think that you can coach up Brian Griese to become John Elway....no matter how much you try. You are what you are.
Click to expand...

But do you think that any QB would have been successful on the 2-14 Texans?

Notice I didn't put DC in a Bengals uni and say he would have succeeded. I'm not about to go there.
 
its evident that Kubiak is trying to make Carr an improved NFL QB & when he struggles takes the blame for conservative playcalling or whatever promising to make adjustments to help Carr become more successful the next game. here's one idea have him mix in some deep balls early with a more focused running game then come back underneath, down the middle and deep pitch outs (ala GreenBay) to Lundy.
 
jerek said:
My problem is they're saying that after three preseason games (6 quarters) and specifically some of them after one botched catch.
Click to expand...

never mind.................
 
TEXANRED said:
Oh come on you two. Remember Carr is learning a new system as well. You can't undo 4 years in 3 months. Carr has looked decent but not terrific. The same for AJ.

AJ needs Carr and Carr needs AJ. Pure and simple. The thing you can judge AJ on is when you get out played for the ball, drop the ball, and can never get open.

Sage didn't look any better last night either. Where are all the "Sage should start" guys. He looked like a chump against 2 and 3 stringers. That is just a tough D.

Vinny, tad bit surprised you would come right out and say something like that. You complain when you get flamed and say you are not a Carr hater but then you say "Carr is awful." Now what do you think is about to happen?
Click to expand...


...and Cutler's a rookie and in a new system (to him), too...Leinert(sp) completed 12 passes in a row in his 2nd game with no training camp...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top