Andre Johnson

[Kaiser Toro]

At any rate, I'll reiterate - I'm not exonerating Carr here; I am trying to keep the thread on topic, and that's AJ's performance relative to expectations.

Fine then take Carr out of the equation. If someone said to you that after three years AJ would have an All-Pro year under his belt after being injured one of those years and not playing the whole season, would that be a reasonable expectation for you given how most WR draft picks normally do not give you ROI until years three and four?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Who is keeping bubble boy safe? Is there some reason people can't expect everyone to play to their best ability? Carr absolutely has to regain his faith in the deep ball and take chances down field--no doubt an area of desparate need for improvement. That's half the equation. Once the ball leaves his hand, AJ and Moulds both should play at a pro-bowl level. I don't hold the Moulds play against him at all--that kind of play is a guess by both the QB and the WR and it was just short of working. The AJ play could have been run better--I'd bet he would say the same thing and has vowed to do better next time. It isn't unreasonable though to expect two pro-bowlers to make the most of the opportunities that come their way.

They were the first two deep balls in a long time against an opposing defense. You look at the game thread and I commended DC for each throw. Do not box me in as the ultimate Carr hater. I have been consistent on measuring Carr against Carr.

 

[infantrycak]

They were the first two deep balls in a long time against an opposing defense. You look at the game thread and I commended DC for each throw. Do not box me in as the ultimate Carr hater. I have been consistent on measuring Carr against Carr.

Where did I say anything about you being a Carr hater? You were acting though like anyone he criticized AJ or Moulds had to be a Carr lover.

Carr has thrown 3 deep balls this preseason--there was also the one tipped by the KC LB which would almost certainly have been a TD to AJ.

 

[thunderkyss]

I have to say, Marcus has a point. You can discount it all you want with the "Carr sucks" mantra, but that doesn't exonerate AJ by a long shot. There are plenty of cases in the past where a great WR has made a QB look good. That's not happening here in Houston.

If AJ really is elite, he needs to be doing the things Marcus stated. CJ made Kitna look good. Boldin and Fitzgerald made McCown look good last year. Chambers made Frerotte look good last year. Hell, even Elvis Grbac looked good for a while in SF, years ago. Yeah, Carr needs to step up. Take a step back from your blind hatred of Carr and realize that AJ does as well.

Think about what you are saying....... McCown.... where is he?? Not in Arizona, and if he is, they just drafted a QB in the first round. Are you saying we should've drafted a QB in the first round??

Kitna...... got replaced by a 2nd year man..... Frerotte is battling for a starting gig against RexGrossman.....

what is the point you are trying to make??

That AJ needs to pull off some Acrobatics every game?? or preseason game?? He was drafted in '03, ProBowl in '04, injured in '05......... I don't see what you are arguing.... honestly.

 

[TEXANRED]

The Carr haters are right!!!!!! Carr is the worst QB next to Oliver Luck and Billy Joe Toliver. Its Carrs fault that AJ drops passes, I am sure it has something to do with his spiral.

In fact, I say we fire Kubiak. He wanted Carr and said he has all the physical abilities a starting QB needs. What does this guy know? Who has he ever coached that was any good? Young and same no name........Elway I think. Really McNair should have looked for a coach with championship experience instead of cheeping out on hiring a no name coach.

McNair should really listen to his fans. We know more. We booed Warren Moon and thought he was a hack. We were right about that one too. What did that guy ever do?

And to think we could have had Aaron Brooks.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Where did I say anything about you being a Carr hater? You were acting though like anyone he criticized AJ or Moulds had to be a Carr lover.

Carr has thrown 3 deep balls this preseason--there was also the one tipped by the KC LB which would almost certainly have been a TD to AJ.

Strike the Carr hater rhetoric from the record and how far are we apart in agreement based off your take I was responding to?

 

[Texas]

It's hard to make your qb look good when his best pass is the hitch pass

Amen

 

[eriadoc]

Fine then take Carr out of the equation. If someone said to you that after three years AJ would have an All-Pro year under his belt after being injured one of those years and not playing the whole season, would that be a reasonable expectation for you given how most WR draft picks normally do not give you ROI until years three and four?

If the areas where AJ struggled were limited to learning and getting comfortable in the offense, running routes, and learning nuances of the position, I would totally agree with you. And in those areas, I don't get on AJ at all. Heck, I'm not really even getting on him much now. I am just saying he needs to show up in a few areas. Specifically, the areas where I think he has not lived up to the "elite" expectations are many of the same things Marcus mentioned. He doesn't need four years to learn how to blast someone at the LOS. He doesn't need four years to know he should come back to the ball when the QB is scrambling. He doesn't need four years to learn to use his body against a CB. He should need a year or two to get comfortable with his QB, in terms of matching up speed and throw depth, but not four. And he darn sure doesn't need four years to learn how to catch the ball. In 2004 he made the Pro Bowl and his drops were way down. In 2005, he was dinged, but his hands weren't. He dropped balls last year that were inexcusable. He's already dropped one easy one this preseason in limited opportunities (versus Rams, short WR screen left). These are things that really have nothing to do with the QB, irrespective of the name on the back of the jersey.

 

[eriadoc]

Think about what you are saying....... McCown.... where is he?? Not in Arizona, and if he is, they just drafted a QB in the first round. Are you saying we should've drafted a QB in the first round??

Kitna...... got replaced by a 2nd year man..... Frerotte is battling for a starting gig against RexGrossman.....

what is the point you are trying to make??

That AJ needs to pull off some Acrobatics every game?? or preseason game?? He was drafted in '03, ProBowl in '04, injured in '05......... I don't see what you are arguing.... honestly.

What I am trying to say is that the WRs on those teams did their job, looked good, and even made Pro Bowls with those scrubs at QB. So regardless who we have at QB, AJ should be doing a better job if he wants to be considered int he same class as AJ, Boldin, Fitzgerald, etc. See my other posts as I am trying to be clearer about my position.

 

[thunderkyss]

The Carr haters are right!!!!!! Carr is the worst QB next to Oliver Luck and Billy Joe Toliver. Its Carrs fault that AJ drops passes, I am sure it has something to do with his spiral.

In fact, I say we fire Kubiak. He wanted Carr and said he has all the physical abilities a starting QB needs. What does this guy know? Who has he ever coached that was any good? Young and same no name........Elway I think. Really McNair should have looked for a coach with championship experience instead of cheeping out on hiring a no name coach.

McNair should really listen to his fans. We know more. We booed Warren Moon and thought he was a hack. We were right about that one too. What did that guy ever do?

And to think we could have had Aaron Brooks.

So this is what you resort to when you have no points to argue??

 

[thunderkyss]

What I am trying to say is that the WRs on those teams did their job, looked good, and even made Pro Bowls with those scrubs at QB. So regardless who we have at QB, AJ should be doing a better job if he wants to be considered int he same class as AJ, Boldin, Fitzgerald, etc. See my other posts as I am trying to be clearer about my position.

#1, AJ is considered to be in the same class as Bolden, Fitzgerald, Moss, T.O., JoeHorn, Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Randy Moss etc...... they all fit under the title "ProBowler"

#2, AJ made the ProBowl with a scrubb at QB. Carr has more in common with the QBs you've mentioned, than with the QBs who've made the ProBowl. He's got the talent, no denying that... but so far, he hasn't made the transition to the NFL game mentally.

 

[eriadoc]

#1, AJ is considered to be in the same class as Bolden, Fitzgerald, Moss, T.O., JoeHorn, Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Randy Moss etc...... they all fit under the title "ProBowler"

#2, AJ made the ProBowl with a scrubb at QB. Carr has more in common with the QBs you've mentioned, than with the QBs who've made the ProBowl. He's got the talent, no denying that... but so far, he hasn't made the transition to the NFL game mentally.

I think you're missing my point slightly here (maybe not, but it seems so). I am trying to evaluate AJ's individual performance on the opportunities he's been given. He made the Pro Bowl in 2004 and we are all justifiably excited about that. Then he had a down year in 2005. He had the lingering calf injury, sure. Prior to the calf injury, he was dropping easy balls. Prior to the calf injury, he was involved in plays that didn't work, for which he had an equal part of responsibility. If the QB throws a ball five yards over his head, he probably doesn't have a ton of responsibility there (route assignments notwithstanding). There were enough plays last season to give rise to concern.

Now that the calf has healed, should we expect the 2004 version of AJ again? Because to this point in the preseason, we haven't seen it. Now, there have been limited opportunities, obviously, and I am not one to read too much into preseason. However, I don't care if it's a preseason game, a backyard flag football game, or catch with the kids in the park - if you're a Pro Bowl WR, you catch the ball at about a 95% clip. We'll see how he does, but as I stated above, it is possible to evaluate individual performance within a given play. Ignore the Carr rhetoric for a bit and it's possible to maintain objectivity.

And this all sounds a lot harsher than I really intend it to be. I am optimistic about AJ and I am hopeful he never dons another uniform. When you're the team's best player, however, you have to get out there and do some spectacular things. That's all I want to see.

 

[TEXANRED]

So this is what you resort to when you have no points to argue??

I can only say Carr and AJ need to step up together. I can only say your #1 WR and QB need to be on the same page and have chemistry which neither appear to have. I have said that with each post and that part keeps getting ignored.

Apparently:

Its Carr's fault AJ doesn't practice with the team in the off season.

Its Carr's fault AJ can't get open.

Its Carr's fault AJ drops the ball.

Its Carr's fault AJ takes plays off

Its Carr's fault AJ 6'3 220 gets out muscled for the ball by a 5'8 180 C.B.

Does Carr have his faults. Yes. Has Kubiak said that? Yes. Had Kubiak said Carr has a long way to go? Yes. Is this a Carr thread? No.

I say if its all the QBs fault we should pick up all the Lions receivers who can't seem to catch or get open either. Hey, it had to have been Harringtons fault right?

 

[thunderkyss]

I think you're missing my point slightly here (maybe not, but it seems so). I am trying to evaluate AJ's individual performance on the opportunities he's been given. He made the Pro Bowl in 2004 and we are all justifiably excited about that. Then he had a down year in 2005. He had the lingering calf injury, sure. Prior to the calf injury, he was dropping easy balls. Prior to the calf injury, he was involved in plays that didn't work, for which he had an equal part of responsibility. If the QB throws a ball five yards over his head, he probably doesn't have a ton of responsibility there (route assignments notwithstanding). There were enough plays last season to give rise to concern.

Now that the calf has healed, should we expect the 2004 version of AJ again? Because to this point in the preseason, we haven't seen it. Now, there have been limited opportunities, obviously, and I am not one to read too much into preseason. However, I don't care if it's a preseason game, a backyard flag football game, or catch with the kids in the park - if you're a Pro Bowl WR, you catch the ball at about a 95% clip. We'll see how he does, but as I stated above, it is possible to evaluate individual performance within a given play. Ignore the Carr rhetoric for a bit and it's possible to maintain objectivity.

And this all sounds a lot harsher than I really intend it to be. I am optimistic about AJ and I am hopeful he never dons another uniform. When you're the team's best player, however, you have to get out there and do some spectacular things. That's all I want to see.

If it hit him in the hands, yeah, he should've caught the ball. If he's having to jump up, and fade back, into the Corner, & gets a couple of fingers on the ball, you have to wonder why the ball was thrown the way it was.....

AJ had seperation. He was at least 1 yard inside of the corner. There was no Safety help to the inside. There was no reason to put that much air under that ball. It should have come more on a line..... Aj had the inside position.

 

[eriadoc]

If it hit him in the hands, yeah, he should've caught the ball. If he's having to jump up, and fade back, into the Corner, & gets a couple of fingers on the ball, you have to wonder why the ball was thrown the way it was.....

AJ had seperation. He was at least 1 yard inside of the corner. There was no Safety help to the inside. There was no reason to put that much air under that ball. It should have come more on a line..... Aj had the inside position.

I'm not really even talking about that play. There's something to be said for how truly great WRs will come down with that ball, but it has to happen enough for them to win their fair share. AJ had a drop against the Rams that he just displayed oven mitts. It's only one drop, so no big deal. Last year, prior to his calf injury, he dropped at least two balls that were 100% sure TDs and the ball hit him right in the hands. He had others that weren't quite so important.

I just want to see him get back to 2004 form.

 

[thunderkyss]

I can only say Carr and AJ need to step up together. I can only say your #1 WR and QB need to be on the same page and have chemistry which neither appear to have. I have said that with each post and that part keeps getting ignored.

I'll agree with you on that.

Apparently:

Its Carr's fault AJ doesn't practice with the team in the off season.

Now we've got to do something about that... that just ain't right. Someone needs to get AJs Agent on the phone, and tell him to have AJ's butt in Houston by the time Training camp starts.... this is preposterous,, a sham......... we've been hoodwinked. If AJ can't be hear for training camp, and can't practice with the team during the preseason, then we just need to cut him. get rid of him.

Surely you can't be talking about OTAs.... I doubt working out with the Hurricanes in the spring is hurting AJ's ability to gel with Carr. If that program was so detrimental to an athletes ability to come in and play, they would've shut it down along time ago.

Its Carr's fault AJ can't get open.

Its Carr's fault AJ drops the ball.

Its Carr's fault AJ takes plays off

Its Carr's fault AJ 6'3 220 gets out muscled for the ball by a 5'8 180 C.B.

Does Carr have his faults. Yes. Has Kubiak said that? Yes. Had Kubiak said Carr has a long way to go? Yes. Is this a Carr thread? No.

Since you've been following the Texans, how many times have you heard a story, or read a quote where Kubiak was upset with AJ??

Maybe you should step back, and objectively look at the situation. Nobody is saying anything about Carr that kubiak isn't saying. CoachK thinks he can fix the problems with Carr....... some on this board(not me) thinks he has bit off more than he can chew.

I say if its all the QBs fault we should pick up all the Lions receivers who can't seem to catch or get open either. Hey, it had to have been Harringtons fault right?

Let's imagine you are the #1 reciever on a football team. Let's say your team is in it's third preseason game. You're playing most of your starters.. for most of the game. In the first half, your team ran close to 50 plays. 25 of those are passing plays. of those 25, 3 get thrown your way. the first one... you drop. The second one was a little over thrown. The third one...... you do your thang.

Now, as a reciever, there are only so many things you can do. You can run of at the mouth, and make a big todo about not getting enough opportunities, or you can take a few plays off.

I prefer the guy who makes a todo. Most people don't like the second guy.

so what's a guy to do??

 

[TEXANRED]

If it hit him in the hands, yeah, he should've caught the ball. If he's having to jump up, and fade back, into the Corner, & gets a couple of fingers on the ball, you have to wonder why the ball was thrown the way it was.....

AJ had seperation. He was at least 1 yard inside of the corner. There was no Safety help to the inside. There was no reason to put that much air under that ball. It should have come more on a line..... Aj had the inside position.

I was always taught if you can touch it you can catch it.

Carr put the ball in a spot where only AJ could make a play. AJ got out played.

When a WR is covered and the QB throws the ball to them any way the QB will put the ball in a spot where the receiver has a chance to make the play. Whether its a high pass or a low pass. AJ was given the chance and failed.

As far as putting the ball on a line you have to consider what is between AJ and Carr. Linebackers, Linemen, safeties. Theres a lot to consider. It was a good throw, just like the one to Moulds. AJ failed to make the play on the ball. Pure and simple.

 

[eriadoc]

I have no idea how the stat for drops is calculated, so read into this what you will. However, it would seem from the stats that elite WRs make more catches with similar opportunities. Stats can be used to say whatever, though, so who knows. For your reference ......

AJ
Year ---Targets ----- Drops ----- Catch % ----- First Down %
2005......114..............5................55.3...............35.1
2004......138..............4................57.2...............38.4
2003......119..............10..............55.5...............37.8

Harrison
2005......132..............1................62.6...............44.7
2004......139..............4................61.9...............45.3
2003......142..............7................66.2...............42.3

Holt
2005......163..............8................62.6...............38.7
2004......136..............2................69.1...............42.6
2003......183..............5................63.9...............45.9

In 2004, the media and fans were all over Koren Robinson and Darrel Jackson for dropping the ball left and right. Here are their stats from that year:

Robinson
2004......67..............10................46.3................34.3

Jackson
2004......156............11................55.8................37.8

 

[eriadoc]

Carr put the ball in a spot where only AJ could make a play. AJ got out played.

When a WR is covered and the QB throws the ball to them any way the QB will put the ball in a spot where the receiver has a chance to make the play. Whether its a high pass or a low pass. AJ was given the chance and failed.

AJ did get outplayed on that particular play. The defensive guys get paid as well, though. If AJ is to be considered a top WR, he has to make that play more often than not. One play in preseason isn't enough.

 

[thunderkyss]

I was always taught if you can touch it you can catch it.

Carr put the ball in a spot where only AJ could make a play. AJ got out played.

I don't think so..... that was the wrong pass to throw..... It was as if he was throwing to the Corner.... if AJ doesn't get his fingers on it, it's an interception.
David was throwing a fade to the corner, but AJ had inside position.

When a WR is covered and the QB throws the ball to them any way the QB will put the ball in a spot where the receiver has a chance to make the play. Whether its a high pass or a low pass. AJ was given the chance and failed.

AJ was given a poorman's chance and saved an INT

As far as putting the ball on a line you have to consider what is between AJ and Carr. Linebackers, Linemen, safeties. Theres a lot to consider. It was a good throw, just like the one to Moulds. AJ failed to make the play on the ball. Pure and simple.

bad throw, pure and simple not at all like the throw to Moulds, which was a good throw...

& I didn't say he should have thrown it on a line, I said more of a line, less arc, less air.

 

[El Tejano]

that's the rule of houstontexans.com. Only one guy gets 60+ starts to show his mad skillz. Everyone else better play better faster so Carr can hurry up and 'look good'.

Well sometimes AJ is thrown that perfect hitch pass and AJ doesn't catch it.

 

[TEXANRED]

I'll agree with you on that.

Thanks for the new Signature. I had been looking for one.

Now we've got to do something about that... that just ain't right. Someone needs to get AJs Agent on the phone, and tell him to have AJ's butt in Houston by the time Training camp starts.... this is preposterous,, a sham......... we've been hoodwinked. If AJ can't be hear for training camp, and can't practice with the team during the preseason, then we just need to cut him. get rid of him.
Surely you can't be talking about OTAs.... I doubt working out with the Hurricanes in the spring is hurting AJ's ability to gel with Carr. If that program was so detrimental to an athletes ability to come in and play, they would've shut it down along time ago.

No not OTA. His work outs in Miami. I felt he should have been here in Houston working with David while he was here in Houston studying the play book. -But that just my opinion.

Since you've been following the Texans, how many times have you heard a story, or read a quote where Kubiak was upset with AJ??

None. The question every single time is always about Carr. He is the popular guy to dislike. Carr is the easier target.

Maybe you should step back, and objectively look at the situation. Nobody is saying anything about Carr that kubiak isn't saying. CoachK thinks he can fix the problems with Carr....... some on this board(not me) thinks he has bit off more than he can chew.

I agree 100%. I feel both Carr and AJ should step up and play to their potential.

Let's imagine you are the #1 reciever on a football team. Let's say your team is in it's third preseason game. You're playing most of your starters.. for most of the game. In the first half, your team ran close to 50 plays. 25 of those are passing plays. of those 25, 3 get thrown your way. the first one... you drop. The second one was a little over thrown. The third one...... you do your thang.

Walker and Smith where O.K. during Sundays game.

 

[HeartofHouston]

I often find myself defending AJ, him being a product from "The U" I want him to be the best at his position for as long as possible, i've seen spotty performance from him this pre-season. There's plays like the quick slant on 4th and 1 that he took perfectly to get the first down and then there's plays like the jump ball with the 5'8 CB that he REALLY should have won.

I think that he has the ability to play to his potential but it was said coming out of college that sometimes he had mental lapses. And that's nothing something that i want to believe. I wish the best of luck to AJ and i hope that he steps his game up and return to that pro-bowl form that we would all LOVE for him to be.

 

[dat_boy_yec]

TK you're being hypocritical. You hate Carr homers, but yet your sounding like a bigtime A.J. homer. I'll break the play down for you. The CB got his hands over A.J.'s body to keep him from making the catch as he was falling. From this we can make a few assumptions the CB had to make the play over A.J. meaning he had less of an opportunity at the pass. A.J. was off-balance so you can't put that on Carr. The pass would have been caught by A.J. had he not lost his balance. An elite WR would have made that catch. I'm not knocking A.J. but he has to be more consistent. (sound familiar.) A.J. has to many dropped balls and they aren't Carr's fault most of the time. Yes Carr makes bad throws, but A.J. also drops alot of passes that would be routine for and ELITE receiver. A.J. same as Carr has the tools to be an elite player so my critisism is that he has to step up his game and bring it all together.

 

[thunderkyss]

TK you're being hypocritical. You hate Carr homers, but yet your sounding like a bigtime A.J. homer. I'll break the play down for you. The CB got his hands over A.J.'s body to keep him from making the catch as he was falling. From this we can make a few assumptions the CB had to make the play over A.J. meaning he had less of an opportunity at the pass. A.J. was off-balance so you can't put that on Carr. The pass would have been caught by A.J. had he not lost his balance. An elite WR would have made that catch. I'm not knocking A.J. but he has to be more consistent. (sound familiar.) A.J. has to many dropped balls and they aren't Carr's fault most of the time. Yes Carr makes bad throws, but A.J. also drops alot of passes that would be routine for and ELITE receiver. A.J. same as Carr has the tools to be an elite player so my critisism is that he has to step up his game and bring it all together.

I'd like for all our players to play better....... I'd like for everyone of them to step up.

AJ should have caught that ball, I'm not saying otherwise. That was not a perfect pass....... that's all I'm saying. If I were playing Madden, I would have held the x button down, and zip the ball into Aj, he wouldn't have had to leave his feet. The ball would have been a hair ahead of him, so he could catch it, and continue to run. There was no one anywhere, that would have prevented me from making the throw, and no one anywhere to stop Aj from catching it.

I would not have tapped the X button, and aimed it at the sideline...... that's where the Cornerback was going to be.

 

[thunderkyss]

Thanks for the new Signature. I had been looking for one.

anytime.......

No not OTA. His work outs in Miami. I felt he should have been here in Houston working with David while he was here in Houston studying the play book. -But that just my opinion.

Right, I didn't know if the OTAs coincided with his workout at the U.

So are you talking about that time that David & Kubiak were going over the playbook, and watching film?? IF you feel that way, that's fine...... I forgot what point I was arguing.

None. The question every single time is always about Carr. He is the popular guy to dislike. Carr is the easier target.

that's my point.

I agree 100%. I feel both Carr and AJ should step up and play to their potential.

Can I use that as a sig??

Walker and Smith where O.K. during Sundays game.

The Ball was thrown to Walker & Smith in the first Quarter.... actually the 3rd & 4th pass attempts I believ.

Not blaming David, but we didn't ask our WR to play until there was only 2:07 seconds in the first half. imagine sprinting down the field for basically two quarters, 5 possesions, 20 plays, ten passing plays..... none went your way.

dump to running back, dump to running back, dump to fullback, dump to running back, interception, dump to runningback.....

We're lucky Aj & Moulds don't act like T.O.
=========================================================
Now like I said before, I don't know if the dump offs weren't by design.. & AJ, & Moulds need to catch everything, if they want David to trust them, regardless if it's the 2nd play from scrimmage in the 1st quarter, or if it's not until that final 2 minutes of the 4th Quarter.