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Andre Johnson released - cut by Colts - signs with Titans

Double Barrel said:
Pay-cut request is understandable. Refusing a pay-cut request is also understandable. Part ways due to differences and that is that. All understandable in a salary cap league and players wanting to maximize their salaries.

But the "40 catch" and backup role is a freakin' joke, if true.
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Agreed. People are talking about "the Patriot way" but the Patriot way was to say to Logan Mankin, "Take a pay cut or we trade you."

Not saying, "Logan, we want you to be our back up guard. Sure, there aren't two guards on the roster that are better than you, but that's beside the point."


Probably not a good analogy since the Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl. But the point is they said, "Take a pay cut or we'll trade you."
 
Good God, the Texans were never getting a 2nd round pick for AJ last year. They would have been lucky to get a trade at all given his salary. Believing anything otherwise is simply asinine.
 
thunderkyss said:
Agreed. People are talking about "the Patriot way" but the Patriot way was to say to Logan Mankin, "Take a pay cut or we trade you."

Not saying, "Logan, we want you to be our back up guard. Sure, there aren't two guards on the roster that are better than you, but that's beside the point."


Probably not a good analogy since the Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl. But the point is they said, "Take a pay cut or we'll trade you."
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You have no idea what conversations they may have had with Mankin... nor do you have the complete picture of what happened with the Texans and AJ since you only have heard from AJ and his agent.
 
Number19 said:
I don't think you draft a receiver at 16 with the anticipation he'll be the third receiver.
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Happens all the time. OBJ was taken with the 12th pick, he was slotted to play behind Victor Cruz & Ruben Randall.
 
McClain predicted AJ would be gone on radio yesterday.

Expected a request for pay reduction that AJ would refuse.

But surprised by the semantics of it. I find it hard to believe that O'Brien would say "You're only going to catch 40 balls."

We've only heard one side of the conversation.
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Thinks AJ will take most money with best QB/team. On 610AM just now.


dalemurphy said:
...the reduction in role was a way for the Texans to, in a round about way, ask for a pay-cut
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Yep, and AJ walked out instead.

Why are people surprised that Andre did not want to be a Texan any longer? He tried pretty damn hard to get himself off this team last year. Now he got his wish and he is happy about that.
 
dalemurphy said:
You have no idea what conversations they may have had with Mankin... nor do you have the complete picture of what happened with the Texans and AJ since you only have heard from AJ and his agent.
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It was reported that the Patriots asked Mankins to take a pay cut or get traded. He refused the pay cut, got traded. I think it's reasonable to assume what's being reported carries the gist of the conversations.

It was reported that the Texans offered Danieal Manning a pay cut, or be released. He didn't take the pay cut, he was released. I think it's reasonable to assume what's being reported carries the gist of the conversations.

We're being told that OB informed Andre of a future where he might catch 40 passes... Andre laughed.. I've never known Andre to be a liar.
 
thunderkyss said:
It was reported that the Patriots asked Mankins to take a pay cut or get traded. He refused the pay cut, got traded. I think it's reasonable to assume what's being reported carries the gist of the conversations.

It was reported that the Texans offered Danieal Manning a pay cut, or be released. He didn't take the pay cut, he was released. I think it's reasonable to assume what's being reported carries the gist of the conversations.

We're being told that OB informed Andre of a future where he might catch 40 passes... Andre laughed.. I've never known Andre to be a liar.
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All of those reports can be true, but that doesn't mean other conversations (or parts of conversations) did go unreported. AJ doesn't have to be a liar simply leave out part of the conversation. It is also likely that the 40 catch statement is misrepresented. AJ was clearly offended and I doubt he is concerned about accurately representing exactly what O'Brien said within the proper context. He could've said, "I can see you catching 40-50 balls for us, on average, for the next 5 years..."
 
Hemlock said:
Good God, the Texans were never getting a 2nd round pick for AJ last year. They would have been lucky to get a trade at all given his salary. Believing anything otherwise is simply asinine.
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The two years before AJ had over 200 catches and 3000 yards, a pro bowler. Apparently you're not familiar with the term and the thinking of, "being a player away from the Super Bowl." Apparently you're not familiar that there were 4 teams that had legitimate Super Bowl chances that had the cap space. Also apparently you're not familiar with the saying, it only takes one team. I guess you're not familiar with similar trades that actually went for more. That's OK, asinine is as asinine does. Good Grief!
 
dalemurphy said:
It is also likely that the 40 catch statement is misrepresented. AJ was clearly offended and I doubt he is concerned about accurately representing exactly what O'Brien said within the proper context. He could've said, "I can see you catching 40-50 balls for us, on average, for the next 5 years..."
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So now you're speculating a contract extension being offered. Mmmkay.
 
Texian said:
The reason the Texans cannot re-sign most of their original talent is because they have mismanaged and mortgaged the salary cap. The same applies to 2015. The fact that you think cutting Manning only to re-sign him forfeiting a comp pick was a good idea, paints a clear picture of your mindset. I don't think you really think it was a good idea but your defending such a bad decision tells me all I need to know.
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Ahhhhh. Jesus, another offseason, another 6 months of Texian bitching and moaning about Texans "mismanaged" cap.
 
This whole thing reaks of a power move by OBrian. Lots of questions need to be answered. I want to hear what McNair has to say about this. Did he know OB was going to hit AJ with this? He just publicly said he wants AJ to retire a Texan last year. I have to wonder if this was OBs way of getting a player and/or contract out the door he didn't want holding his ability to build the team back.

I know this, AJ feels like OB disrespected him and was trying to force him out the door. I won't be surprised at all if AJ goes to Indy just for a chance to stick it to OB twice a year for the next couple of years.
 
Texian said:
The reason the Texans cannot re-sign most of their original talent is because they have mismanaged and mortgaged the salary cap. The same applies to 2015. The fact that you think cutting Manning only to re-sign him forfeiting a comp pick was a good idea, paints a clear picture of your mindset. I don't think you really think it was a good idea but your defending such a bad decision tells me all I need to know.
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you and everyone else does realize that going into the 2016 season we will have 16 free agents, lots of cap space and the player remnants of the Kubiak years can all be cut/released with very minimal cap penalty right?
 
Texian said:
The reason the Texans cannot re-sign most of their original talent is because they have mismanaged and mortgaged the salary cap. The same applies to 2015. The fact that you think cutting Manning only to re-sign him forfeiting a comp pick was a good idea, paints a clear picture of your mindset. I don't think you really think it was a good idea but your defending such a bad decision tells me all I need to know.
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Actually they are really starting to clean up their cap management. Watts contract was done perfectly. Now that AJ is about gone they don't really have any real bad contracts that will hurt them in the next few years.
 
mussop said:
This whole thing reaks of a power move by OBrian. Lots of questions need to be answered. I want to hear what McNair has to say about this. Did he know OB was going to hit AJ with this? He just publicly said he wants AJ to retire a Texan last year. I have to wonder if this was OBs way of getting a player and/or contract out the door he didn't want holding his ability to build the team back.

I know this, AJ feels like OB disrespected him and was trying to force him out the door. I won't be surprised at all if AJ goes to Indy just for a chance to stick it to OB twice a year for the next couple of years.
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This is exactly what I have been wondering - if McNair was willing to pay out the contract or redo it and OB/Smith didn't want that and so presented it about as offensively as they could to make it AJ's choice.
 
infantrycak said:
This is exactly what I have been wondering - if McNair was willing to pay out the contract or redo it and OB/Smith didn't want that and so presented it about as offensively as they could to make it AJ's choice.
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I hope McNair learned his lesson in playing meddling owner after the whole Ed reed fiasco. Now is letting his football guys run the team
 
Texian said:
The two years before AJ had over 200 catches and 3000 yards, a pro bowler. Apparently you're not familiar with the term and the thinking of, "being a player away from the Super Bowl." Apparently you're not familiar that there were 4 teams that had legitimate Super Bowl chances that had the cap space. Also apparently you're not familiar with the saying, it only takes one team. I guess you're not familiar with similar trades that actually went for more. That's OK, asinine is as asinine does. Good Grief!
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Weren't you just bemoaning general media outlets as terrible sources of NFL information? Yet now you're citing local Philly click-bait bloggers in your defense? Way to stay consistent!

If the made up scenario you suggested actually existed, then most people would agree you take it and run. But it didn't.....so, stop living in fantasy land.
 
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Got dammit! I was past the upset stage and into the anger!! Stop ****ing with my emotions!
 
Hemlock said:
Weren't you just bemoaning general media outlets as terrible sources of NFL information? Yet now you're citing local Philly click-bait bloggers in your defense? Way to stay consistent!

If the made up scenario you suggested actually existed, then most people would agree you take it and run. But it didn't.....so, stop living in fantasy land.
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What you need is a dose of reality. Bill Belichick gave up a 4th RD pick for Randy Moss. Moss's prior two years to that trade he had half as many catches and half as many yards as Andre and Moss did not make a Pro Bowl in those two years....surely you can that ANdre was much more valuable. May be not and I may be wasting my time here. Media outlets have nothing to do with it. Every year (1) team makes a trade or drafts a player no one considered. Teams making BIG trades for a player that they think will get them to Super Bowl happens frequently. A little research will bring you up to date. Here's a hint you can start with Peerless Price and work your way up.
 
dalemurphy said:
All of those reports can be true, but that doesn't mean other conversations (or parts of conversations) did go unreported. AJ doesn't have to be a liar simply leave out part of the conversation. It is also likely that the 40 catch statement is misrepresented. AJ was clearly offended and I doubt he is concerned about accurately representing exactly what O'Brien said within the proper context. He could've said, "I can see you catching 40-50 balls for us, on average, for the next 5 years..."
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dalemurphy said:
Are you intentionally misrepresenting my words, or do you struggle with reading comprehension?
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Since he's only under contract for 2 years, and has mentioned he wanted to play 2 more years... yeah it does sound like you are saying maybe they offered him an extension
 
infantrycak said:
Without a contract extension what you proposed wasn't even a maybe.

So do you intentionally misrepresent hypotheticals?
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The point was that we don't have any idea about the context in which the "40 catches" statement was made. We only know that AJ reacted adversely to some suggestion of a reduced role. Who knows what part of the conversation he left out or misunderstood, or tuned out.
 
infantrycak said:
This is exactly what I have been wondering - if McNair was willing to pay out the contract or redo it and OB/Smith didn't want that and so presented it about as offensively as they could to make it AJ's choice.
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Along those lines, I think it makes sense that O'Brien convinced McNair that AJ should be released but McNair only agreed if they could make it look like a football decision and that he didn't go back on his word that AJ would retire a Texan.
 
JB said:
Since he's only under contract for 2 years, and has mentioned he wanted to play 2 more years... yeah it does sound like you are saying maybe they offered him an extension
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Who knows?.. A head coach can certainly talk about his vision of a players' role on the team beyond the timeframe of the current contract.
 
michaelm said:
Along those lines, I think it makes sense that O'Brien convinced McNair that AJ should be released but McNair only agreed if they could make it look like a football decision and that he didn't go back on his word that AJ would retire a Texan.
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This is a plausible scenario.
 
Texian said:
What you need is a dose of reality. Bill Belichick gave up a 4th RD pick for Randy Moss. Moss's prior two years to that trade he had half as many catches and half as many yards as Andre and Moss did not make a Pro Bowl in those two years....surely you can that ANdre was much more valuable. May be not and I may be wasting my time here. Media outlets have nothing to do with it. Every year (1) team makes a trade or drafts a player no one considered. Teams making BIG trades for a player that they think will get them to Super Bowl happens frequently. A little research will bring you up to date.
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So just to get this straight....your new defense is that because the Patriots gave up a fourth round pick in 2007 for a cheaper, younger Randy Moss, that it stands to reason that a team was going to give the Texans a second round pick for an older, more expensive AJ in 2015.


You would do yourself some favors sometimes by just not hitting reply, but I'm sure you just can't help yourself. Lol.
 
Hemlock said:
So just to get this straight....your new defense is that because the Patriots gave up a fourth round pick in 2007 for a cheaper, younger Randy Moss, that it stands to reason that a team was going to give the Texans a second round pick for an older, more expensive AJ in 2015.


You would do yourself some favors sometimes by just not hitting reply, but I'm sure you just can't help yourself. Lol.
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Moss was two years younger with half the production what part of you having difficulty with? Please tell us more about what you found on Peerless Price.....
 
Texian said:
Moss was two years younger with half the production what part of you having difficulty with? Please tell us more about what you found on Peerless Price.....
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Right after you tell me more about anecdotal evidence.

It's not two years and production is relative.
 
I'm semi-new around these parts. Does Texian have a reputation I should know about? I'm not being trolled am I? lol.
 
The story behind the story was that Crennal wanted to pick up Cortland Finnegan, and Andre said he wasn't going to play on the same team as him so he wanted to be traded. :slapfight:


I think personally he checked out last season. His attitude has been visibly down trodden. I believe the story that was put out was a cover story so that both parties could part without excessive bad publicity for either party.

I also believe that no matter where he goes he will most definitely excel. That is the trend of any player who leaves a Houston team.

I wish him the best, wished he wasn't going but respect his decision either way.
 
Hemlock said:
I'm semi-new around these parts. Does Texian have a reputation I should know about? I'm not being trolled am I? lol.
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Yes, Texian does have a reputation around these parts, most especially in the NSZ. But like anyone with hugely conflicting ideology's they do make sensible posts now and then. Not that I would make a sensible post mind you, that's just not something I do on the internet. You can't be to careful these days.
 
Texian said:
The reason the Texans cannot re-sign most of their original talent is because they have mismanaged and mortgaged the salary cap. The same applies to 2015. The fact that you think cutting Manning only to re-sign him forfeiting a comp pick was a good idea, paints a clear picture of your mindset. I don't think you really think it was a good idea but your defending such a bad decision tells me all I need to know.
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I am defending a good decision, at least in my opinion it was a good decision.

How is releasing Manning, only to have him resign for the minimum a bad thing? Oh right...we lost a comp pick, what was Houston thinking? I'll reference PFF (as you do) that Manning was 30th among all safeties...not bad...with a 3.0 grade. This was done on the minimum salary.

Texans can't resign their talent because of cap issues, so are you saying we should be resigning our talent? That would go against your comp pick plan.
 
He can always retire a Texan at a later date. We will be younger, faster and better next year without AJ.

Time to move on, from this poorly reported story.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
He can always retire a Texan at a later date. We will be younger, faster and better next year without AJ.

Time to move on, from this poorly reported story.
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Sounds like pre-draft, immediate impact rookie talk (assuming that's how they replace Andre). Once the season starts, we all know that it takes a year for a rookie to adjust to the NFL, then rookie receivers have that sophomore slump.

Younger and faster next year? Probably. Better? I'm thinking 2017.
 
Hemlock said:
I'm semi-new around these parts. Does Texian have a reputation I should know about? I'm not being trolled am I? lol.
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He's the king of arm chair GM's. Get ready for similar posts regarding Texans' "mismanaged" cap.

In one of the threads around here he's advocating for both, letting players play out their contracts to let them walk in free agency (to get more comp picks) AND complaining about not enough cap space at the same time. An obvious contradiction to me.
 
Runner said:
Sounds like pre-draft, immediate impact rookie talk (assuming that's how they replace Andre). Once the season starts, we all know that it takes a year for a rookie to adjust to the NFL, then rookie receivers have that sophomore slump.



Younger and faster next year? Probably. Better? I'm thinking 2017.
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Via draft and FAs, we will get younger, faster and better. This is a growth story with OB, Houston will like the result. However, bitching is just a dialect, a mode of communication around here, and in my opinion folks are just a tad too attached to heroes that never got it done. Nice guys may not always finish last, but they are usually boring on their path to mediocrity.

I may be a bit on the ambitious side with my prognostication, but I like the path we are on. Success is a bumpy road.
 
thunderkyss said:
So why didn't they ask him to take a pay cut?

This would be like asking Logan Mankins to only play special teams. Or telling Richard Seymour you'll only use him on first downs.
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Because after they told him about his reduced role AJ was outta there. Never even talked about paycut, but AJ new what was coming. IMHO
 
michaelm said:
You're letting three or four guys walk every year that are valuable enough to garner comp picks of any value?
You better be batting .999 on draft day.
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That's what Smith has done and I wouldn't say that he has been batting .999 on draft day and the Texans are never players in FA, hence they are where they are today.
 
Hemlock said:
I'm semi-new around these parts. Does Texian have a reputation I should know about? I'm not being trolled am I? lol.
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If you're a kool aid drinker I do have the reputation of pissing in the kool aid. I am a no nonsense person vs dreaming and wishful thinking person. Also if your comments are rude and snarky then I can do rude and snarky. However if you want to do respectful adult educated conversation I can do the same. You choose. Since you're new it won't take you long to figure out how most here behave.
 
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