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All Encompassing Vick Thread

I can't see the government accepting a plea that doesn't accept responsibility for gambling or killing dogs.
 
So, again I ask the question... If the plea is not accepted, do they re-negotiate or does the judge schedule a trial date??

Texan_Bill said:
Obviously, I am not really up on Federal Criminal law, but can the judge deny the plea bargain altogether and force it to trial???
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I believe there already is a trial date of late November. I don't know if they will renegotiate or if they will add on the superceding indictment now.
 
Texan_Bill said:
So, again I ask the question... If the plea is not accepted, do they re-negotiate or does the judge schedule a trial date??
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The judge won't force a trial but if he doesn't like the plea deal he can reject it and then the defendant can change his plea and go to trail or plead guilty again without the plea agreement. But once he rejects it he can then order it to go to trial...they just have to take the above steps.
 
HoustonFrog said:
The judge won't force a trial but if he doesn't like the plea deal he can reject it and then the defendant can change his plea and go to trail or plead guilty again without the plea agreement. But once he rejects it he can then order it to go to trial...they just have to take the above steps.
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Got it... Thanks.
 
If Vick wants to play these games where he admits guilt, then later revises what he plead, I hope the judge decides to throw the book at him. Reject the plea, allow it to go to trial, and put Vick away.

Vick was given a golden opportunity to spend less time in the slammer, but now after seeing what a guilty plea to dog fighting and gambling charges will do to his career he wants to change his tune.

He obviously isn't sorry for his actions. He had his lawyer apologize for him. Now he is revising his statement...buh bye Mr. Vick.
 
Someone is making some sense...

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/08/24/espn-legal-analyst-casts-doubt-on-espn-report-on-michael-vick-gu/

ESPN Legal Analyst Casts Doubt on ESPN Report on Michael Vick Guilty Plea

Last night ESPN reported that although Falcons quarterback Michael Vick intends to plead guilty to federal conspiracy charges on Monday, he will not admit to killing dogs or gambling, the two crimes that would be likely to significantly damage his ability to return to the NFL some day.

But on ESPN First Take this morning, ESPN legal analyst Roger Cossack said of the report, "It's hard for me to believe." Cossack explained that if the federal prosecutors allow Vick to enter a plea in which he does not take responsibility for killing dogs or gambling, the prosecutors are essentially saying that it's OK with them for Vick and his co-defendants to make mutually exclusive claims in their "confessions."
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TigerV1 said:
Someone is making some sense...

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/08/24/espn-legal-analyst-casts-doubt-on-espn-report-on-michael-vick-gu/

ESPN Legal Analyst Casts Doubt on ESPN Report on Michael Vick Guilty Plea
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If you go on ESPN and go to the videos there is an interview with him. I agree. Basically the judge would be allowing 2 defendants to say that Vick killed dogs and gambled and another to say.."I didn't do that."....all of them under oath. The prosecution brought it all together so it makes no sense.
 
HoustonFrog said:
If you go on ESPN and go to the videos there is an interview with him. I agree. Basically the judge would be allowing 2 defendants to say that Vick killed dogs and gambled and another to say.."I didn't do that."....all of them under oath. The prosecution brought it all together so it makes no sense.
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I am just curious to know if Vick is going to go in there in see what he can "get away" with. If the judge is as tough as I've heard, he won't put up with much. Vick better be careful and not mess around or he could see his plea deal rejected.
 
HoustonFrog said:
If you go on ESPN and go to the videos there is an interview with him. I agree. Basically the judge would be allowing 2 defendants to say that Vick killed dogs and gambled and another to say.."I didn't do that."....all of them under oath. The prosecution brought it all together so it makes no sense.
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The Washington Post just reported that the plea has just been formally submitted to the court. As I understand it, once the plea agreement is finalized and then rejected by a Federal judge, the plea cannot be amended and resubmitted...............i.e., the only alternatives at that time is go to trial or admit guilt without the benefit of a plea agreement.
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-michaelvick&prov=ap&type=lgns

Vick files plea in federal court, admits dogfighting

By LARRY O'DELL, Associated Press Writer
August 24, 2007

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Michael Vick filed a plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to a dogfighting charge and agreed the enterprise included killing fighting dogs and gambling.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The Washington Post just reported that the plea has just been formally submitted to the court. As I understand it, once the plea agreement is finalized and then rejected by a Federal judge, the plea cannot be amended and resubmitted...............i.e., the only alternatives at that time is go to trial or admit guilt without the benefit of a plea agreement.
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Exactly, I think I said that to TB. They can change their plea but only for trial purposes..he can say we will go to trial under the guise of "not guilty" or he pleads guilty.
 
So the reports by ESPN were overhyped BS. He admits to engaging and promoting an enterprise whose purpose included gambling. He also admits to participating in the decision to kill 6-8 dogs and participating in their killing. Basically everything ESPN reported was bunk just like when they said he wouldn't be indicted. The only thing he didn't admit to was personally laying side bets.
 
infantrycak said:
So the reports by ESPN were overhyped BS. He admits to engaging and promoting an enterprise whose purpose included gambling. He also admits to participating in the decision to kill 6-8 dogs and participating in their killing. Basically everything ESPN reported was bunk just like when they said he wouldn't be indicted. The only thing he didn't admit to was personally laying side bets.
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If he thinks that "side bets" are the only thing that would put him in an NFL ban position (and I hope to G-d Goodell finds no reason to interpret it so), then he should be already trying to procure a career in selling aluminum siding when Bubba gets through with him. That would be like owning a prostitution ring, and feeling absolved because you didn't partake of a percentage of the prostitute's tips.
 
infantrycak said:
So the reports by ESPN were overhyped BS. He admits to engaging and promoting an enterprise whose purpose included gambling. He also admits to participating in the decision to kill 6-8 dogs and participating in their killing. Basically everything ESPN reported was bunk just like when they said he wouldn't be indicted. The only thing he didn't admit to was personally laying side bets.
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Well said. I agree with all of it. Side bets are like me sitting there and looking at you and saying.."an extra grand on Dog 1." It isn't really head to head when it comes to the ring.
 
HoustonFrog said:
If you go on ESPN and go to the videos there is an interview with him. I agree. Basically the judge would be allowing 2 defendants to say that Vick killed dogs and gambled and another to say.."I didn't do that."....all of them under oath. The prosecution brought it all together so it makes no sense.
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I heard the Cossack interview as well...

He also said that he believes that to get this much of a "watered down" stipulation that Vick must have gave up other individuals.,.
 
infantrycak said:
So the reports by ESPN were overhyped BS. He admits to engaging and promoting an enterprise whose purpose included gambling. He also admits to participating in the decision to kill 6-8 dogs and participating in their killing. Basically everything ESPN reported was bunk just like when they said he wouldn't be indicted. The only thing he didn't admit to was personally laying side bets.
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I think this "Plea" may be "splitting hairs" that would P-Off a Federal Judge...

You admit some things, but don't specifically admit others...

Give me a Break.

To save himself from a long time in "Club Fed"... "Ookie" better "Come to Jesus".....

My father battled in the late Federal Judge Carl Bue's Court for many years.... He remarked how "splitting hairs" and other "games"of being less than candid to the Court is the quickest way to P-Off a Federal Judge.

I don't think Judge Hudson will take the Plea.

As for ESPN... I think this was a Defense "leak" of a "Trial Balloon" just to gauge public opinion..
 
Koolaid Time said:
I think this "Plea" may be "splitting hairs" that would P-Off a Federal Judge...

You admit some things, but don't specifically admit others...

Give me a Break.

To save himself from a long time in "Club Fed"... "Ookie" better "Come to Jesus".....

My father battled in the late Federal Judge Carl Bue's Court for many years.... He remarked how "splitting hairs" and other "games"of being less than candid to the Court is the quickest way to P-Off a Federal Judge.

I don't think Judge Hudson will take the Plea.

As for ESPN... I think this was a Defense "leak" of a "Trial Balloon" just to gauge public opinion..
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I'm not sure. He has stated he killed dogs. He has stated he basically gambled with his dogs. He honestly is just saying he didn't take the cash or side bets and money. Its splitting hairs but you have him on being the ringleader, gambling, killing and he will help in turning over other rings and info. I think it will go through.

You are right though, he is a hard ass so I'm not sure what he will think of the side bet deal. I think that is a way to save the career.
 
Koolaid Time said:
I don't think Judge Hudson will take the Plea.
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I think he will. Vick didn't sidestep anything legally important, i.e. that would have changed the potential sentence (once again in contradiction to what ESPIN was reporting--that the max term would be down to a year). But like you said, if the Judge doesn't think Vick is being candid he may get angry.

As a side note--the local sports reporters who keep misreporting this and tracking the ESPIN report are acting like ding dongs.
 
infantrycak said:
I think he will. Vick didn't sidestep anything legally important, i.e. that would have changed the potential sentence (once again in contradiction to what ESPIN was reporting--that the max term would be down to a year). But like you said, if the Judge doesn't think Vick is being candid he may get angry.

As a side note--the local sports reporters who keep misreporting this and tracking the ESPIN report are acting like ding dongs.
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what are they saying now
 
HoustonFrog said:
I'm not sure. He has stated he killed dogs. He has stated he basically gambled with his dogs. He honestly is just saying he didn't take the cash or side bets and money. Its splitting hairs but you have him on being the ringleader, gambling, killing and he will help in turning over other rings and info. I think it will go through.

You are right though, he is a hard ass so I'm not sure what he will think of the side bet deal. I think that is a way to save the career.
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I'll bring back this quote from USA Today:

Goodell told USA Today that the high-stakes gambling associated with dogfighting concerns the NFL as much as the dogfighting charges themselves. In the standard players' contract, the NFL has a strict policy against gambling that includes a potential lifetime ban for associating with gambling in a manner that discredits the league.

"Listen, we're sickened by the allegations and the predicament Michael put himself in," Goodell said. "But there are a lot of things in the indictment that concern the NFL that may not be of a greater concern from a law enforcement standpoint."
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DISCREDIT=To damage in reputation; disgrace...............exactly that which has already been done, especially, if Godell does not hand down the harshest of response.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
DISCREDIT=To damage in reputation; disgrace...............exactly that which has already been done, especially, if Godell does not hand down the harshest of response.
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If PacMan gets a one year suspension without a felony conviction, Vick is looking at least 2, maybe 3 year suspension, for any plea.
 
I hope the judge rejects the plea agreement. I really want this to go to trial, and I want him hammered, and then have the book thrown at him. I want him to rot in hell or the closest thing to it. This is WAY to easy on him.
 
Porky said:
I hope the judge rejects the plea agreement. I really want this to go to trial, and I want him hammered, and then have the book thrown at him. I want him to rot in hell or the closest thing to it. This is WAY to easy on him.
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OMG I agree with Porky on something :user:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'll bring back this quote from USA Today:



DISCREDIT=To damage in reputation; disgrace...............exactly that which has already been done, especially, if Godell does not hand down the harshest of response.
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Oh, I've been saying all along that the gambling is the reason he might be banned permanently. I was only saying that Vick may have insisted on that part of the deal thinking that it might help. I don't think it helps at all since everything else is in play...including a gambling ring..side bets or not.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Oh, I've been saying all along that the gambling is the reason he might be banned permanently. I was only saying that Vick may have insisted on that part of the deal thinking that it might help. I don't think it helps at all since everything else is in play...including a gambling ring..side bets or not.
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Yeh, I think we're on the same page with this.
 
This is getting crazier by the day. From PFT

IS DMX MIKE'S FIRST VICTIM?

With Mike Vick pleading guilty to federal conspiracy charges and agreeing to "provide all information known to [him] regarding any criminal activity as requested by the government," is it a coincidence that one day after Vick signed the papers the house of rapper DMX was raided, and 12 "distressed" pit bulls were removed?

If Vick truly was a dog fighting "heavyweight," would Vick not know about other celebrities who engage in the sport?

It's possible that it really was a coincidence. But it's also possible that any and all high-profile sports and entertainment figures will soon be getting a visit from guys with guns and badges.
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Mr. White said:
This is getting crazier by the day. From PFT
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DMX was one of the first to glorify dog fighting and the whole pitbull culture in his rap videos and with his record company's logo. FWIW, there is no coincidence here. It may not have been Vick that outted DMX but this whole investigation is connected. These guys are guys that a lot of the young african-american community look up to and they are setting bad examples. The federal government owes it to society to punish these people and make an example of them and then the african-american community needs to find some new role models other than jacked up hiphop musicians and stoned ignorant athlete thugs. Maybe a few of these families can mix in a father while they are at it. Be responsible and stop having babies and then leaving her to raise the child alone. It is truly an epidemic in all communities, but especially the African-American community.

I laughed my arse off at Vick's dad trying to act like he tried to stop it all. If the guy would have done the right thing and the MANLY thing to do, he would have been a father figure for Vick during his developing years and not just decide to reappear once his son has the golden lottery ticket of professional sports. It really ticks me off when the dads reappear when its in their own interest. That was one thing I liked about Reggie Bush's dad. It's not his biological father, but that guy was there for RB during his years growing up. Obviously he made some mistakes (free housing from sports marketing firm during RB's USC days) but at least he was man enough to be a dad. I remember I got a little choked up when Bush thanked his stepfather during his Heisman acceptance speech. I thought it was sincere and really showed how much fathers mean to their kids. I had a still have a father growing up but many of my friends did not. These 'thugs' just need some dads and some good ole fashioned tender loving care partnered with a little discipline.

The true African-American role models preach this non-stop but they are dismissed as Uncle Tom's by the black community. Listen to Cosby talk about the situation. That guy should be the face of the African-American community and is proud to be black, but he is too 'white' for most blacks. i guess being 'white' means being successful, responsible, and not selfdestructive to his own race. We need more white African-Americans if that is the case and less Vick, Starbury, and Roy Jones. Roy Jones came off as a brainless loser in that interview. That guy is a pile of garbage. Shame on him.
 
Commissioner Roger Goodell notified Falcons QB Michael Vick on Friday that he is suspended indefinitely without pay from the National Football League, effective immediately.

http://www.nfl.com/
 
Vick might as well cop an "Honest Plea" and not try to play games with the Judge.

From God Roger:

» "Your admitted conduct was not only illegal, but also cruel and reprehensible. Your team, the NFL, and NFL fans have all been hurt by your actions."

» "Your plea agreement and the plea agreements of your co-defendants also demonstrate your significant involvement in illegal gambling. Even if you personally did not place bets, as you contend, your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL Player Contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

» "You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league’s Personal Conduct Policy."

» "I will review the status of your suspension following the conclusion of the legal proceedings. As part of that review, I will take into account a number of factors, including the resolution of any other charges that may be brought against you, whether in Surry County, Virginia, or other jurisdictions, your conduct going forward, the specifics of the sentence imposed by Judge Hudson and any related findings he might make, and the extent to which you are truthful and cooperative with law enforcement and league staff who are investigating these matters."

» "I have advised the Falcons that, with my decision today, they are no longer prohibited from acting and are now free to assert any claims or remedies available to them under the Collective Bargaining Agreement or your NFL Player Contract."


In other words, this Quarterback is:

toast.jpg
 
a sad day for Michael Vick and his family. i feel sorry for his mother and lay shame upon his father who shows up to parent his child 30 years too late. a sad day for the NFL and the Falcons. a sad day for our society in general.

that being said, justice was served and Vick was treated very fairly during this entire ordeal. kudos to the feds and kudos to Goodell for not succumbing to public opinion and letting some things run their course before he acted.

Vick needs help but even if he gets it, I don't want him in the NFL anymore. He has a right to earn a living but he has no right to be in the league. it is private and he has no god given right to membership.
 
swtbound07 said:
i am going to laugh hysterically at all of you lemmings that rushed to the conclusion of lifetime bans and extreme prison sentences......i've said all along, no jailtime, and probably no nfl suspension..
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So now do we get to laugh hysterically or what? No NFL suspension, HA
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Vick needs help but even if he gets it, I don't want him in the NFL anymore. He has a right to earn a living but he has no right to be in the league. it is private and he has no god given right to membership.
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If Leonard Little got drunk and got in a car and killed another human being with his car, why can he remain in the league but Michael Vick can't because he killed some dogs ?
 
nunusguy said:
If Leonard Little got drunk and got in a car and killed another human being with his car, why can he remain in the league but Michael Vick can't because he killed some dogs ?
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Past examples prove and justify nothing. How about the bottom line--what should have happened to Little, what should happen to Vick?

To supply one obvious distinction--one time unintentional act vs. 6+ years of intentional criminal activity.
 
nunusguy said:
If Leonard Little got drunk and got in a car and killed another human being with his car, why can he remain in the league but Michael Vick can't because he killed some dogs ?
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Leonard Little is a dumbass that got drunk and killed somebody. There's lots more like him.

Mike Vick is running a criminal enterprise.

Totally different animals.
 
nunusguy said:
If Leonard Little got drunk and got in a car and killed another human being with his car, why can he remain in the league but Michael Vick can't because he killed some dogs ?
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Lets not forget that a HUGE component of this is the gambling. Why is Little still around and other people have been banned for a lifetime for gambling?

Why is that ref looking at 25 years, when manslaughter carrries like a 5 year sentence?
 
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