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All Encompassing Vick Thread

By the way--contrary to some assertions earlier in this thread, the federal judge does not have to accept the recommendation of the prosecutors and sentencing for anything up to the full 5 years would not give Vick an out. Vick will go in August 27th and plead guilty and give an information statement like the other defendants. There will then be a sentencing hearing set at which the judge will make the decision. Rusty Hardin was on 610 am this afternoon discussing the difference between state and federal courts.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
I think hell get 18 months, a HUGE fine, major community service/PSAs, and the chance to get out after 9months with good cooperation in the ongoing investigation and good behavior.
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I don't think there is parole in the Fed system. He'll have to serve his whole sentence, whatever it is.
 
Runner said:
I don't think there is parole in the Fed system. He'll have to serve his whole sentence, whatever it is.
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Watching espin countdown they said something to the effect he has to serve 85% of his time and then the last 15% could be spent in a half-way house. Not technically parole but still not in the slammer.
 
I read that also that for Federal prison you must serve 85% of the time - no getting off for "good behavior"

Hope he has some money salted away, by the time the attorneys and the Falcons, who will want a large chunk of the +20 mill they have given him back, he won't have much if any left.

I also read that the judge does not have to accept the recommendation of the prosecutors and can give out what sentence he wants, and if the prosecutors think the sentence is too low, they can file an appeal to make it longer, but Vick cannot file an appeal to make it shorter.
 
If he's EVER allowed to return to the NFL, there should be an agreement to eletrocute his *ss the first game he loses.............sounds like a deal to me.......at least as good a deal that he has probably finagled with his plea agreement. :bat:
 
I wonder if his well publicized “Ron Mexico” herpes will save him some pain in prison. Probably not, it is most likely well spread (pun intended) there.:heart:
 
swtbound07 said:
want some fries with that vendetta?
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Oh come on SWT.. Cut me some slack,,,

Three is NO "Venetta" against Vick....Neither Porky nor I have it out for "Doggie -girl" (as Vick's name will be in Federal Prison)....

As far as I am concerned you can subtract the image of the President and the Vick Plea is....

mission-accomplished.jpg


For the US Department of Justice... because they took on what the local DA intentionally passed off...
 
And I thought Marcus was the "bad" one. Hell, he was just trying to be like his big bro. Mom and pop have got to be proud.
 
He'll get 3-4 years. And he may get out early for good behavior.

While the press has played up the killing and so-called torture angle from the start, that's not what he'll be convicted of. He's going up the river for the illegal dog-fighting ring and the gambling aspects. The Feds got him when he transported dogs across state lines. They couldn't really do a thing to him for killing the dogs. They stuck that in the indictment to show that he had personal involvement in the operation and to make him look evil. And he gave them plenty of material to work with.

And don't forget, this is a fed offense, so he may go to a "country club" prison.

He'll probably not play NFL football again.
 
Vick is getting more prison time and more punishment by the NFL than Lenard Little got for actually killing a person while drinking and driving.

I think Vick is getting what he deserves, but its strange that society and the NFL think Dogs > People.
 
The1ApplePie said:
Vick is getting more prison time and more punishment by the NFL than Lenard Little got for actually killing a person while drinking and driving.

I think Vick is getting what he deserves, but its strange that society and the NFL think Dogs > People.
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Little didn't kill anyone on purpose and I think that many of the fans are guilty of drinking at tailgates and driving home on various game days every year...so I don't think that many fans are as outraged as they are with killing innocent dogs in brutal and vicious manners in a premeditated fashion.....just my perspective and commentary about the situation. Leonard Little is a sorry pos as far as I'm concerned...for the record.
 
Vinny said:
Little didn't kill anyone on purpose and I think that many of the fans are guilty of drinking at tailgates and driving home on various game days every year...so I don't think that many fans are as outraged as they are with killing innocent dogs in brutal and vicious manners in a premeditated fashion.....just my perspective and commentary about the situation. Leonard Little is a sorry pos as far as I'm concerned...for the record.
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Good points. "Intent" plays a large part in criminal sentencing. Of course Little made the decision to drink and drive but he never said to himself "Hey, lemme see if I can kill someone".

Vick chose purposely to do what he did to those dogs and it wasn't just a one time thing where he could claim to have acted out of rage or anger. It was cold hearted pre-meditated cruelty, abuse and killing of innocent animals. I'm no fan of pit bulls but even they should not be treated in this manner.

Add to all that, Vick wasn't some poor backwoods schmo fighting dogs out of ignorance. He had all the fame and fortune most of us dream of having and still chose to take part in these cruel and barbaric fights and killing of dogs. If we treated Quarterbacks the way he treated dogs, Vick would have been dead two seasons ago, drowned and electrocuted in the locker room.

I wonder now if Joe Horn still wants his kids to grow up to be just like Vick? And I wonder if all the Vick apologists like Horn wish they'd kept their mouths shut now that Vick and all his co-defendants have opened theirs and pled guilty to the charges.
 
Red_Zone said:
Good points. "Intent" plays a large part in criminal sentencing. Of course Little made the decision to drink and drive but he never said to himself "Hey, lemme see if I can kill someone".

Vick chose purposely to do what he did to those dogs and it wasn't just a one time thing where he could claim to have acted out of rage or anger. It was cold hearted pre-meditated cruelty, abuse and killing of innocent animals. I'm no fan of pit bulls but even they should not be treated in this manner.

Add to all that, Vick wasn't some poor backwoods schmo fighting dogs out of ignorance. He had all the fame and fortune most of us dream of having and still chose to take part in these cruel and barbaric fights and killing of dogs. If we treated Quarterbacks the way he treated dogs, Vick would have been dead two seasons ago, drowned and electrocuted in the locker room.

I wonder now if Joe Horn still wants his kids to grow up to be just like Vick? And I wonder if all the Vick apologists like Horn wish they'd kept their mouths shut now that Vick and all his co-defendants have opened theirs and pled guilty to the charges.
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Blah Blah Blah. Little should've got some significant time for that regardless b/c he knew the dangerous consequences of his actions, Intent or no Intent. Hell, isn't there a young kid facing serious time b/c of a car/train accident where he was found to be driving under the influence of some sort? I'm just saying, If it were anybody else, they'd be facing @ the very least manslaughter charges. He's just lucky it was on another commissioner's watch.

I'm with apple pie on this one.
 
Mr teX said:
Blah Blah Blah. Little should've got some significant time for that regardless b/c he knew the dangerous consequences of his actions, Intent or no Intent. Hell, isn't there a young kid facing serious time b/c of a car/train accident where he was found to be driving under the influence of some sort? I'm just saying, If it were anybody else, they'd be facing @ the very least manslaughter charges. He's just lucky it was on another commissioner's watch.

I'm with apple pie on this one.
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He was convicted of manslaughter. No doubt if it had happened under Goodell he would have been suspended as well. So what?--there is a new sheriff and he is running things differently.
 
The problem I have with Leonard Little is that he drank and killed someone and then got arrested again for driving under the influence and speeding. He was not convicted of the DWI but was of the speeding. Overall though why would you drive and even have one drink in you after killing someone. This has nothing to do with anything. Just my commentary on how some people never learn and are destructive. I have no comment on his NFL time. Just wanted to bring up his destructive tendencies post conviction.
 
Reguardless of intent, Little killed a person, Vick killed dogs. Little getting less time is a joke.

Didn't Ray Lewis stab somebody to death as well?
 
Mr teX said:
Blah Blah Blah. Little should've got some significant time for that regardless b/c he knew the dangerous consequences of his actions, Intent or no Intent. Hell, isn't there a young kid facing serious time b/c of a car/train accident where he was found to be driving under the influence of some sort? I'm just saying, If it were anybody else, they'd be facing @ the very least manslaughter charges. He's just lucky it was on another commissioner's watch.

I'm with apple pie on this one.
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POTENTIALLY Dangerous consequences on Little's part. I expected him to get more than the hand-slap he got though. In his defense, he didn't "set out" to DUI in order to kill something, the same can't be said for Vick. MV was the bankroll for the operation, he's lucky all the RICO stuff hasn't been charged yet.

The kid is an apples / oranges comparison - That "kid" stole TWO different vehicles that evening for a pre-meditated "joyride" and killed his passengers while in the act of committing another felony. I doubt he'll get convicted of Murder, but his act WAS as pre-meditated as Vick's actions.
 
If you are going to bring up someone and compare it to Vick lets get all the facts correct.

First and foremost one is State charges and the other is federal. A first DUI is a class A disdeamenor. with the manslaughter charge it is a class C felony. I think Little should have gotten more time for Accidently Killing someone but comparing two different cases in two different courts is not reasonable.

After a drunken birthday in 1998, NFL star Leonard Little crashed into and killed another motorist, Susan Gutweiler. When tested, his blood alcohol level measured 0.19 percent. Little received 90 days in jail, four years probation and 1000 hours of community service.

Six years later, Little was again arrested for drunk driving and speeding. Little was acquitted of driving while intoxicated, but was convicted of the misdemeanor speeding charge.[1]

On Week 11 of the 2006 NFL season, Little signed a 3-year extension with the Rams.


"Little gets probation; judge bars him from drinking", USA Today, 2005-05-06.
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From Wikpedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Little
 
The1ApplePie said:
Reguardless of intent, Little killed a person, Vick killed dogs. Little getting less time is a joke.

Didn't Ray Lewis stab somebody to death as well?
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We don't know the sentence as yet, so MV may still make the "under". As for Ray Lewis, he didn't stab anyone. (His 2 firiends did, in self-defense & they were acquitted) He pled on an obstruction charge that he probably should have fought.
 
Specnatz said:
If you are going to bring up someone and compare it to Vick lets get all the facts correct.

First and foremost one is State charges and the other is federal. A first DUI is a class A disdeamenor. with the manslaughter charge it is a class C felony. I think Little should have gotten more time for Accidently Killing someone but comparing two different cases in two different courts is not reasonable.



From Wikpedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Little
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Thanks for putting this. This is the incident I referenced above.
 
disaacks3 said:
POTENTIALLY Dangerous consequences on Little's part. I expected him to get more than the hand-slap he got though. In his defense, he didn't "set out" to DUI in order to kill something, the same can't be said for Vick. MV was the bankroll for the operation, he's lucky all the RICO stuff hasn't been charged yet.

The kid is an apples / oranges comparison - That "kid" stole TWO different vehicles that evening for a pre-meditated "joyride" and killed his passengers while in the act of committing another felony. I doubt he'll get convicted of Murder, but his act WAS as pre-meditated as Vick's actions.
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Well, tell that to the kid who is now motherless b/c of chicken little's night out on the town.....
 
I've been asking myself a question for a while that really bothers me.........With as long as this has gone on, and with Vick asking for time away to go to Virginia for months at a time (as related by the Falcons owner [ESPN]), attornies, CPA's, NFL buddies............How many of you believe that only a handfull of "insignificant" players knew what was going on until now??????????:pigfly:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I've been asking myself a question for a while that really bothers me.........With as long as this has gone on, and with Vick asking for time away to go to Virginia for months at a time (as related by the Falcons owner [ESPN]), attornies, CPA's, NFL buddies............How many of you believe that only a handfull of "insignificant" players knew what was going on until now??????????:pigfly:
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I think alot of people knew what was going on. And I think Vick is going to RAT them out, because if "Ookie" suffers, he is going to make sure others do as well.

Part of his Plea Deal will require "cooperation" with other Federal investigations.

I bet Vick gives names of other NFL players that "play with the dogs."

I read the indictment today and saw the allegations of Vick taking a dog to fight another dog from "Lockjaw Kennels" in North Carolina.

So I googled "Lockjaw Kennels" North Carolina and what did I find...

http://www.lockjawkennel.org/index.html

That was simple.
 
Koolaid Time said:
I think alot of people knew what was going on. And I think Vick is going to RAT them out, because if "Ookie" suffers, he is going to make sure others do as well.

Part of his Plea Deal will require "cooperation" with other Federal investigations.

I bet Vick gives names of other NFL players that "play with the dogs."

I read the indictment today and saw the allegations of Vick taking a dog to fight another dog from "Lockjaw Kennels" in North Carolina.

So I googled "Lockjaw Kennels" North Carolina and what did I find...

http://www.lockjawkennel.org/index.html

That was simple.
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Glad y'all brought this up, because also in the idictment, they mention a kennel in New York as well....
 
Koolaid Time said:
I think alot of people knew what was going on. And I think Vick is going to RAT them out, because if "Ookie" suffers, he is going to make sure others do as well.

Part of his Plea Deal will require "cooperation" with other Federal investigations.

I bet Vick gives names of other NFL players that "play with the dogs."

I read the indictment today and saw the allegations of Vick taking a dog to fight another dog from "Lockjaw Kennels" in North Carolina.

So I googled "Lockjaw Kennels" North Carolina and what did I find...

http://www.lockjawkennel.org/index.html

That was simple.
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you do know the difference in a 'dog kennel' and a 'dog fighting' right?
 
Possibly out of the frying pan into the fire:

RICHMOND, Va. - Michael Vick's legal troubles from dogfighting could get even worse. The Atlanta Falcons quarterback faces possible prosecution in state court, where punishment might far exceed the maximum five years in prison that could await him in his federal case.

Local prosecutor Gerald Poindexter has said he likely will pursue charges against Vick, who has plummeted from favorite son to a symbol of animal abuse in the four months since authorities raided his Surry County property. Poindexter says the case could go before a county grand jury Sept. 25.
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VICK
 
Mr teX said:
Blah Blah Blah. Little should've got some significant time for that regardless b/c he knew the dangerous consequences of his actions, Intent or no Intent. Hell, isn't there a young kid facing serious time b/c of a car/train accident where he was found to be driving under the influence of some sort? I'm just saying, If it were anybody else, they'd be facing @ the very least manslaughter charges. He's just lucky it was on another commissioner's watch.

I'm with apple pie on this one.
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I agree that Little should have gotten a more severe sentence but it just doesn't follow that because he didn't that Vicks sentence should be lessened. The two cases are worlds apart. Little made ONE bad decision that caused his troubles, Vick made bad decisions almost daily commiting felonies over a period of years.
 
Vinny said:
you do know the difference in a 'dog kennel' and a 'dog fighting' right?
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Yes... but when someone brags about their dog being able to bite a softball in half, it makes you wonder..

1. Why an owner would train a dog to do that..

2. Why an owner would brag about that.
 
Red_Zone said:
At State level Vick could get five years on eight seperate counts, to a miximum of 40 years!
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Should be a pretty easy case for the State too. Vick is admitting to running a dog fighting operation and his co-defendents (and I assume him as well) are admitting to killing 8 dogs. He really has no defense and this case could be over in about 10 minutes.
 
tulexan said:
Should be a pretty easy case for the State too. Vick is admitting to running a dog fighting operation and his co-defendents (and I assume him as well) are admitting to killing 8 dogs. He really has no defense and this case could be over in about 10 minutes.
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And an FBI agent in the pine tree. He's toast. Que up Little Micky and the boys, "when the whip comes down" off of goats head soup albumn.

oops check that some gurls.
 
They are now saying that Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling...the plea, one person said, may be in jeopardy. Friggin pride. I hope he goes away for a long time now. He is digging himself deeper. Hopefully this will end soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2989037

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights, as detailed in his indictment, when he enters a guilty plea in a Richmond, VA, federal court Monday, a source close to the case has told ESPN. Instead, the one count of conspiracy that Vick will plead to will admit guilt to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.

Vick will admit that he was present when dogs were killed, but will maintain that he did not personally kill any of the dogs.

The allegations of killing dogs and gambling were part of the picture painted by Vick's three co-defendants, all of whom pleaded guilty before Vick, presumably in exchange for their cooperation in testifying against Vick.
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So is he going to trial on the other charges? if so, WOW. he is totally hosed if so. Or are the feds dropping the other serious charges?

I am curious to hear about what is going on with this because if he only has to plead to that one charge, he will be competing for a QB spot somewhere as early as the 08 season.

Bottom line is Vick's future may have brightened a little bit today. I had seen reports that Vick was to plead guilty to the contents of the indictment on Monday....I thought the judge said as much during the proceedings.

I think he would be adequately punished by a year ban and the huge loss of wealth that he is to incur in the coming years. He then has a chance to see if there is a market for him in today's NFL. Irregardless, Monday is a big day for Vick because if he can put this behind him and serve his time, his career may have a glimmer of hope. One thing is for sure, he will never wear a Texans jersey....
 
To add insult to injury his old man is saying Mike is all about the dogs

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2989202

ATLANTA -- Michael Vick's father said he asked his son to give up dogfighting, or to at least put property used in the venture in the names of others to avoid being implicated, according to a report in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

In The Journal-Constitution report posted on the newspaper's Web site Thursday night, Michael Boddie, who is estranged from Vick and the quarterback's mother, also said some time around 2001 his son staged dogfights in the garage of the family home in Newport News, Va.

Boddie told the newspaper Vick kept fighting dogs in the family's backyard, including dogs that were "bit up, chewed up, exhausted." Boddie claimed to have nursed the dogs back to health.

The indictment against Vick does not mention the parents' former home in Newport News.

In the report, Boddie dismissed the idea that Vick's longtime friends were the main instigators of the dogfighting operation.

"I wish people would stop sugarcoating it," Boddie told The Journal-Constitution. "This is Mike's thing. And he knows it ... likes it, and he has the capital to have a setup like that."
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HoustonFrog said:
They are now saying that Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling...the plea, one person said, may be in jeopardy. Friggin pride. I hope he goes away for a long time now. He is digging himself deeper. Hopefully this will end soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2989037
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Frog, you and I both know that the Federal Judge isn't going to accept that Plea and give him a minimum sentence.

Vick won't admit to killing dogs, because that establishes any Virginia State Charges.

Vick won't admit to gambling because that kills his NFL career.

He is already looking at sentencing "enhancements" because he was the "ringleader."

If Vick doesn't accept FULL responsibility, then the Judge can sentence him to the top end of the scale-- 5 years..

Sounds fair-Vick gives a less than honest plea---then the Judge hammers him with the maximum
 
Koolaid Time said:
Frog, you and I both know that the Federal Judge isn't going to accept that Plea and give him a minimum sentence.

Vick won't admit to killing dogs, because that establishes any Virginia State Charges.

Vick won't admit to gambling because that kills his NFL career.

He is already looking at sentencing "enhancements" because he was the "ringleader."

If Vick doesn't accept FULL responsibility, then the Judge can sentence him to the top end of the scale-- 5 years..

Sounds fair-Vick gives a less than honest plea---then the Judge hammers him with the maximum
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I agree with you completely. His actions right now aren't winning him any sympathy votes and he pretty much is being defiant despite what they have...and I'm sure they have presented some fo the evidence to him.
 
Obviously, I am not really up on Federal Criminal law, but can the judge deny the plea bargain altogether and force it to trial???
 
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