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All encompassing Rick Smith thread

James Palmer is seriously confused if he thinks Rick Smith made the decision on those draft picks. The closest Rick Smith can come to making those draft picks is GUILTY by ASSOCIATION. Also 1st RD draft picks are like boiled eggs, it's hard to screw those up.

Plenty of GM's screw up their first round picks...every year. I love Rick Smith as our GM as much as the next guy (as long as the next guy wants to fire Rick Smith), but you have to give credit where its due. He is *abysmal* in the middle rounds, but he has been money on first rounders. Especially considering that we have picked toward the middle or back end of the round consistently.

2013. Terrible draft for many teams. Lots of first round busts. We come out with #10 (...aaaand a bunch of nothing else...except Ryan Griffin)

If you want a team with solid starters and no depth, Rick Smith is your guy.
 
Plenty of GM's screw up their first round picks...every year. I love Rick Smith as our GM as much as the next guy (as long as the next guy wants to fire Rick Smith), but you have to give credit where its due. He is *abysmal* in the middle rounds, but he has been money on first rounders. Especially considering that we have picked toward the middle or back end of the round consistently.

2013. Terrible draft for many teams. Lots of first round busts. We come out with #10 (...aaaand a bunch of nothing else...except Ryan Griffin)

If you want a team with solid starters and no depth, Rick Smith is your guy.

Here is the deal on those picks and who actually made the call (decision) to draft them:

Okoye - Richard Smith/Kubiak
Brown - Alex Gibbs
Cushing - Frank Bush
Jackson - David Gibbs
Watt - Wade Phillips
Mercilus - Wade Phillips
Hopkins - Gary Kubiak
Clowney - Bob McNair
Johnson - Romeo Crennel
Fuller - Bill O'Brien

Now I will admit that it was Rick Smith who called in the pick after someone else made the decision. Of course as we all know it was a Group/Team effort. NOT!
 
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Here is the deal on those picks and who actually made the call (decision) to draft them:

Okoye - Richard Smith/Kubiak
Brown - Alex Gibbs
Cushing - Frank Bush
Jackson - David Gibbs
Watt - Wade Phillips
Mercilus - Wade Phillips
Clowney - Bob McNair
Johnson - Romeo Crennel
Fuller - Bill O'Brien

Now I will admit that it was Rick Smith who called in the pick after someone else made the decision. Of course as we all know it was a Group/Team effort. NOT!

You have some solid connections inside the front office...Im impressed. Would that make Hopkins a RS pick, since he isn't included in your list? Or was he the *only* committee decision that the Texans have ever made in the first round of the draft?

Most of the time I very much respect your opinion and you are obviously highly intelligent, but from what I can tell from this message board and the HT.com board, you are predisposed to binary thinking.

Id be very surprised if every Texans first round pick came down to the opinion of *one* person who trumped everyone else. Besides, Wade Phillips himself has already stated that Bobby Grier was also a big advocate for JJ Watt. But you already know that because I remember the discussion on this board.
 
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You have some solid connections inside the front office...Im impressed. Would that make Hopkins a RS pick, since he isn't included in your list? Or was he the *only* committee decision that the Texans have ever made in the first round of the draft?

Most of the time I very much respect your opinion and you are obviously highly intelligent, but from what I can tell from this message board and the HT.com board, you are predisposed to binary thinking.

Id be very surprised if every Texans first round pick came down to the opinion of *one* person who trumped everyone else. Besides, Wade Phillips himself has already stated that Bobby Grier was also a big advocate for JJ Watt. But you already know that because I remember the discussion on this board.

Sorry, Hopkins was a Kubiak pick. As far as my binary thinking and intelligence, I think it just has more to do with the fact that I do read a majority of the articles written about the Texans, I follow many associated with the reporting on the Texans on Twitter and Facebook and I read & watch just about all articles and videos posted on houstontexans.com. In addition I watch a lot of videos and do a lot draftnik research. I would just say that I am better informed than your average Houston Texans fan.

Yes I can remember the conversations about Grier and on that I think we can agree that Rick Smith really had little to do with Watt being drafted (as is the case with most of the Texans 1st Rd draft picks).
 
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So they don't let Rick have a say in the 1st round picks, so that is why we are good in that round?

Then they say "OK Rick, 1st round is over... it's your show now, go crazy!".

I guess that is why we get the best of both worlds, give him no credit for 1st rounders, and all the blame for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. etc. etc. FIRE RICK!
 
So they don't let Rick have a say in the 1st round picks, so that is why we are good in that round?

Then they say "OK Rick, 1st round is over... it's your show now, go crazy!".

I guess that is why we get the best of both worlds, give him no credit for 1st rounders, and all the blame for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. etc. etc. FIRE RICK!

The issue I have with Smith is I still believe he should have been fired right along with Kubiak. Also, since he became GM the Texans haven't drafted a QB within the first 3 rounds. Not once. For a team that has been starving for a franchise QB since Carr flopped that makes zero sense. Even New England drafts QB's within the first 3 rounds with the GOAT at the position still as good as ever.

Personally, I'm frustrated by the same quotes by Smith and McNair every year. "We feel good with what we have" or "we need to find a QB" and then they don't draft one until late, or UDFA's like Case. In contrast the HC here now just say's "we do what the boss tells us to do". That's as close to saying "I have no control over the process".

I don't know if O'Brien will walk away before he gets fired. But if he gets fired, Smith should go with him.
 
The issue I have with Smith is I still believe he should have been fired right along with Kubiak.

At the time I felt the same way. Since then, I've changed my mind. Before last season started I was happy with every position on the field except QB. I liked a lot of the depth at most of the defensive positions.

I know Rick Smith drafted players who have been recognized as defensive rookie of the year, defensive player of the week, defensive player of the month, defensive MVP, offensive player of the week, & several pro bowls, a few all-pros.

No, he didn't hit on every pick, but hit on several. Maybe he did something way back when that didn't sit right with most of us. But I think he's gotten better at adding talent to this team. Like I mentioned in another thread. Great Offensive coach, great offensive team. Great defensive coach, great defensive team. Our offense sucked the last two years. I'm OK thinking first time OC George Godsey wasn't cutting it.

Also, since he became GM the Texans haven't drafted a QB within the first 3 rounds. Not once. For a team that has been starving for a franchise QB since Carr flopped that makes zero sense. Even New England drafts QB's within the first 3 rounds with the GOAT at the position still as good as ever.

If you're going to frame it like that, yeah. Doesn't make any sense. But if you look at what he did do, it's not so bad. His first year he invested two 2nd round picks in a QB that held the fort for 7 years. Two pro bowls, lead the league in passing one year. Best QB in franchise history.

Then you look at Brady. He was 34 years old before the Patriots invested a 3rd round pick on Brady's heir apparent. Matt Schaub just turned 35. When the Patriots were in our position, they were drafting 6th round QBs, so technically the 5th we spent on Tj & 4th we spent on Savage is more of an investment in QB than what the Patriots invested when they found Brady.


Personally, I'm frustrated by the same quotes by Smith and McNair every year. "We feel good with what we have" or "we need to find a QB" and then they don't draft one until late, or UDFA's like Case. In contrast the HC here now just say's "we do what the boss tells us to do". That's as close to saying "I have no control over the process".

A little off topic but the way O'b handles the media makes me think he has a hard time thinking two steps ahead. I mean you lose a game your QB turns the ball over four times in the first half & when asked about it he has no answer. He was caught totally off guard by the question. So he blows up & starts acting like a baby.

I don't know if O'Brien will walk away before he gets fired. But if he gets fired, Smith should go with him.

I think JVG is a good basketball coach & honestly I was getting tired of Morey shuffling players around all the time. So much that when the Rockets did get to the playoffs, they were basically a new team.

But JVG obviously wasn't on the same page with Less & Morey.

Nobody wanted D'Antoni, but he looks like the coach Les & Morey were looking for all along. The players the Rockets have been acquiring seem to excell at the things D'Antoni likes to do & is good at doing.

So while I recognize there are some things O'b is good at, & may very well be a good coach. I wonder if he's the right coach for this team. McNair sets the vision, it's his team. I think we all agree Rick & Bob are in lock step. If O'b is a square peg... he's a square peg.

Nothing wrong with square pegs, unless you need a round one.
 
So they don't let Rick have a say in the 1st round picks, so that is why we are good in that round?

Then they say "OK Rick, 1st round is over... it's your show now, go crazy!".

I guess that is why we get the best of both worlds, give him no credit for 1st rounders, and all the blame for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. etc. etc. FIRE RICK!

Now THAT is fuzzy logic.

In this crazy game of football, it's pretty easy to come to a conclusion to support your belief.
 
So while I recognize there are some things O'b is good at, & may very well be a good coach. I wonder if he's the right coach for this team. McNair sets the vision, it's his team. I think we all agree Rick & Bob are in lock step. If O'b is a square peg... he's a square peg.

Nothing wrong with square pegs, unless you need a round one.

Not many coaches will be able to succeed with this team in 2018. Why 2018? Because there isn't a QB on this team signed for 2018. The way things are looking now, the Texans will be starting the 3rd string QB in 2018. O'Brien has been put in a position where he has QB's that have received very little live fire in this offense. Savage has been injured every year here and Weeden has been riding the end of the bench while the front office rotated "bridge" QB's.

Of course I have to add none of us really know what's going on inside the organization. But this team is absolutely desperate for a QB. This is a weak class but they have no choice but to add one. That seems to be more of a front office problem than a coaching issue.
 
Not many coaches will be able to succeed with this team in 2018. Why 2018? Because there isn't a QB on this team signed for 2018. The way things are looking now, the Texans will be starting the 3rd string QB in 2018. O'Brien has been put in a position where he has QB's that have received very little live fire in this offense...
I was having this same thought last night.

If we were to draft Mahomes at 1-25, think how bad it could be next year if Savage sees the writing on the wall and does not re-sign. And the same for Weeden. Then we will have only a second year player and two rookies? Or maybe a veteran signing with no experience in the offense.
 
Savage has every opportunity to start and play well if he's ready to do that, regardless of where we draft a QB. If he does play well, he'll be re-signed at good money. I'm not worried about him losing focus because we take a QB at 25. If that causes him to want to leave, he's not worth keeping.
 
I was having this same thought last night.

If we were to draft Mahomes at 1-25, think how bad it could be next year if Savage sees the writing on the wall and does not re-sign. And the same for Weeden. Then we will have only a second year player and two rookies? Or maybe a veteran signing with no experience in the offense.

we'll start the third string in 2017, no need to wait 2018
 
Lance Z just said on 790 that this draft will be all Rick Smith picks and that BOB is effectively a lame duck. Short of going 13-3 he'll likely be gone at the end of season. Guess will find out if Smith is good or bad. He also said QB unlikely at 25, and that the Texans like Peterman in 2-3
 
Lance Z just said on 790 that this draft will be all Rick Smith picks and that BOB is effectively a lame duck. Short of going 13-3 he'll likely be gone at the end of season. Guess will find out if Smith is good or bad. He also said QB unlikely at 25, and that the Texans like Peterman in 2-3
Rare occasion that I agree with Lance but yes I believe based on the end of the year rumors of O'Brien being out, I think he's dead man walking. And Bob, Cal and Ricky McNair are using 2017 to ready for a start over in 2018. Why I also believe there has been virtually no off season activity this season, part of the 2018 Plan. That's what Tea Leaves are saying anyway. OR as they say, actions speak louder than words.
 
Lance Z just said on 790 that this draft will be all Rick Smith picks and that BOB is effectively a lame duck. Short of going 13-3 he'll likely be gone at the end of season. Guess will find out if Smith is good or bad. He also said QB unlikely at 25, and that the Texans like Peterman in 2-3

I hope this is not the case, but it sure has felt like a divorce is imminent. If I had to choose between the two, Id vote to jettison RS and keep BOB.

Surely this is a minority opinion, but I feel that BOB will be much more successful at his next stop. And we will be stuck with a decade of mediocrity no matter who is our head coach.
 
I hope this is not the case, but it sure has felt like a divorce is imminent. If I had to choose between the two, Id vote to jettison RS and keep BOB.

Surely this is a minority opinion, but I feel that BOB will be much more successful at his next stop. And we will be stuck with a decade of mediocrity no matter who is our head coach.

I think this might be a Pete Carroll situation for OB. He has very high potential as a HC but he has some lessons he needs to learn along the way. And he seems like he's the type to learn his lessons the hard way. He'll learn his lesson the hard way and get the ax, make the necessary adjustments, and then find success at his next stop.
 
I think this might be a Pete Carroll situation for OB. He has very high potential as a HC but he has some lessons he needs to learn along the way. And he seems like he's the type to learn his lessons the hard way. He'll learn his lesson the hard way and get the ax, make the necessary adjustments, and then find success at his next stop.
That's why I'm not a fan of firing coaches left and right. Let them grow into their job. That worked out great for Dallas/Landry/Garrett and Pittsburgh/every HC since Knowles. Oh yeah, It's worked out great for New England when the Browns fired Belichick. Marvin Lewis is another good example. Jeff Fisher is an example of keeping a guy too long.

I'm not one the members who vilifies Smith and McNair for every single issue the Texans have, but it's my opinion that Smith is entirely too close to the McNair's and that's an obvious conflict of interest for the ownership.
 
Smith says he doesn't draft players on a NEED basis. He drafts players on a TALENT basis. What kind of crazy philosophy is that???
 
I hope this is not the case, but it sure has felt like a divorce is imminent. If I had to choose between the two, Id vote to jettison RS and keep BOB.
If the Texans don't win this year, I want both gone. What kind of HC could the Texans lure with a proven coach killer like Smith as a GM? And what has O'Brien done to deserve an extension with more personnel power? Clean house if these two can't figure this out.
 
A good example of what? An overrated head coach that can't win a playoff game despite coaching many talented teams to the playoffs, year in and year out?
A coach that can get his team to the playoffs year in and year out. The Bengals were right there with the Browns in playoff droughts before Lewis. It's not Lewis' fault that they faced noted Bengal slayers TJ Yates and Tom Savage. :kitten:
 
Why giv
If the Texans don't win this year, I want both gone. What kind of HC could the Texans lure with a proven coach killer like Smith as a GM? And what has O'Brien done to deserve an extension with more personnel power? Clean house if these two can't figure this out.
Why give up on the HC when the GM has proven to be the issue? Smith has a proven track record of failing to add quality depth to the team. Yeah, he's pretty dang good in the 1st and with UDFA'a/street FA's, but lousy in rounds 2-7. I'd rather give OB a chance and see what happens for a couple of years. Give OB a 3 year plan and see what happens. You lose no more time with this defense than you do with an entirely new regime coming in and changing systems and players. I'd like to see a "cut your problem in half" solution. Smith has had over a decade. OB has had 3 years under Smith's personnel. Give him his shot. If it works, you have the next BB. If he fails, start over. Wholesale change decisively wastes this teams defensive talent for several years.
 
Why giv

Why give up on the HC when the GM has proven to be the issue? Smith has a proven track record of failing to add quality depth to the team. Yeah, he's pretty dang good in the 1st and with UDFA'a/street FA's, but lousy in rounds 2-7. I'd rather give OB a chance and see what happens for a couple of years. Give OB a 3 year plan and see what happens. You lose no more time with this defense than you do with an entirely new regime coming in and changing systems and players. I'd like to see a "cut your problem in half" solution. Smith has had over a decade. OB has had 3 years under Smith's personnel. Give him his shot. If it works, you have the next BB. If he fails, start over. Wholesale change decisively wastes this teams defensive talent for several years.

Concisely put!

O'Brien cannot be assessed as to his true ability with one hand always trying to fend off interference, while having the other tied behind his back. Ridding yourself of Smith, having a nose to nose heart to heart coming to Jesus meeting of the mind with McNair, and a 3 year deal makes the only sense for any chance that this franchise can accelerate their search for ultimate success. If you get rid of OB now, take it to the bank that there will be a significant and destructive turnover (voluntary and/or involuntary) in player personnel, a search for new personnel fitting the new or adjusted scheme, more predictable infighting..................and no doubt at least a 3 year set back with this team anyway.....................another wash, rinse repeat of the last 10 years of the Smith era............and this is only if McNair can be convinced to find some other toy like a Lionel train to keep him from running the real train off the tracks.
 
Lance Z just said on 790 that this draft will be all Rick Smith picks and that BOB is effectively a lame duck. Short of going 13-3 he'll likely be gone at the end of season. Guess will find out if Smith is good or bad. He also said QB unlikely at 25, and that the Texans like Peterman in 2-3

Thank ******* tits.

But if this is true, then it sucks that they're wasting another year on this loser.
 
Because I believe O'Brien has culpability, as well. And the wholesale change argument was debunked when Kubiak won year one in Denver.
Kubiak went to the perfect scenario. Your point is invalid. Top 5 defense and top 5 offense. You couldn't ask for better than a Kubiak offense in 2015.
 
Concisely put!

O'Brien cannot be assessed as to his true ability with one hand always trying to fend off interference, while having the other tied behind his back. Ridding yourself of Smith, having a nose to nose heart to heart coming to Jesus meeting of the mind with McNair, and a 3 year deal makes the only sense for any chance that this franchise can accelerate their search for ultimate success. If you get rid of OB now, take it to the bank that there will be a significant and destructive turnover (voluntary and/or involuntary) in player personnel, a search for new personnel fitting the new or adjusted scheme, more predictable infighting..................and no doubt at least a 3 year set back with this team anyway.....................another wash, rinse repeat of the last 10 years of the Smith era............and this is only if McNair can be convinced to find some other toy like a Lionel train to keep him from running the real train off the tracks.
I think that OB has doubled down on himself and knows that he will be employed as a HC in 2018, regardless. He has nothing to lose. That's especially troubling when you consider Chuck Pagano's hot seat in Indy. Want to go from Manning kicking the Texans ass for 15 years to OB kicking the Texans ass for many more? I say no. Let's see what OB has to offer. sans Rick Smith, before the Texans do that.
 
I think that OB has doubled down on himself and knows that he will be employed as a HC in 2018, regardless. He has nothing to lose. That's especially troubling when you consider Chuck Pagano's hot seat in Indy. Want to go from Manning kicking the Texans ass for 15 years to OB kicking the Texans ass for many more? I say no. Let's see what OB has to offer. sans Rick Smith, before the Texans do that.
McNair extended Rick Smith's contract for 4 more years, only last July.
 
Right, but McNair would still have to legally buy out his contract.
Why wouldn't McNair do this if 2017 resembles 2006-2017? Is McNair insane? Hit on 1st round and UDFA's but miss on rounds 2-7? GM isn't a salary cap hit.
 
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McNair extended Rick Smith's contract for 4 more years, only last July.


mgt67.png
 
What has been suggested is that McNair could possibly promote Smith within the Texan organization, I don't remember to what position, but allowing the GM position to open up for a replacement.
I've seen things suggested on her, but nothing to show that Smith has any less influence on personnel. Smith is dug in like a tick. That is an issue. It doesn't matter where you place him, his voice will carry weight.
 
Not many coaches will be able to succeed with this team in 2018. Why 2018? Because there isn't a QB on this team signed for 2018. The way things are looking now, the Texans will be starting the 3rd string QB in 2018. O'Brien has been put in a position where he has QB's that have received very little live fire in this offense. Savage has been injured every year here and Weeden has been riding the end of the bench while the front office rotated "bridge" QB's.

Of course I have to add none of us really know what's going on inside the organization. But this team is absolutely desperate for a QB. This is a weak class but they have no choice but to add one. That seems to be more of a front office problem than a coaching issue.

O'b has done his part in the QB situation here. So I don't buy the "O'b has been put in a situation..." thing.

& while this isn't a strong class, there is talent there. I have no doubt in my mind that Andy Reid will get great production out of Pat Mahomes, that's what he does. He's a great QB developer.

Do we have that kind of coaching on our team?
 
Now, I bet the story is going to be that the Bill O'Brien wanted Mahomes. Rick screwed the pooch again letting KC move up to get him, then he panicked, traded up to get Watson & now he's set the Texans back for the next decade.

We can twist it all kinds of ways. Like I've wrote before, there are two camps in this discussion. And an outlier camp that says HC and GM are both responsible for the success and failures of this team. I'm of the later, you have been firmly in the anti-O'Brien camp.

If the chosen QB doesn't work out both O'Brien and Smith need to be fired. I've been firm on this. From the beginning. And I do believe Watson will sink O'Brien and Smith. Good. Osweiler should have done that already.
 
We can twist it all kinds of ways. Like I've wrote before, there are two camps in this discussion. And an outlier camp that says HC and GM are both responsible for the success and failures of this team. I'm of the later, you have been firmly in the anti-O'Brien camp.

If the chosen QB doesn't work out both O'Brien and Smith need to be fired. I've been firm on this. From the beginning. And I do believe Watson will sink O'Brien and Smith. Good. Osweiler should have done that already.

Ehm... I'm not in the anti-O'b camp. It may come across that way with all the anti-Smith talk. My argument has been that O'b is as complicit in every decision the Texans have made.

I also don't believe people need to get fired because things don't work out the way they wanted. If there are more good things than bad, I'm looking to focus on the good stuff. Work on minimizing the bad things, getting better every day.

QB misses are going to look like big mistakes. That's the nature of the business. Had the Ravens fired Ozzie Newsome because Jeff Blake, Chris Redman, Steve McNair, Kyle Boller, & Troy Smith didn't work out... they may have never got Flacco & another Super Bowl.
 
QB misses are going to look like big mistakes. That's the nature of the business. Had the Ravens fired Ozzie Newsome because Jeff Blake, Chris Redman, Steve McNair, Kyle Boller, & Troy Smith didn't work out... they may have never got Flacco & another Super Bowl.
I always find it interesting that when the Rick Smith assassins point to Ozzie as one of the best GMs in the league they never point to these 'failures'.

And (while I'm ranting) this "O'Brien is just marking time to finish out his contract" is, quite frankly, just gossip and rumor mongering from talking heads who are trying to attract clicks. I notice they've NEVER produced quotes from anyone directly involved.

Show me a quote from O'Brien that says, "I won't be back next season under any circumstances" or you got nuthin'.
 
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I always find it interesting that when the Rick Smith assassins point to Ozzie as one of the best GMs in the league they never point to these 'failures'.

And (while I'm ranting) this "O'Brien is just marking time to finish out his contract" is, quite frankly, just gossip and rumor mongering from talking heads who are trying to attract clicks. I notice they've NEVER produced quotes from anyone directly involved.

Show me a quote from O'Brien that says, "I won't be back next season under any circumstances" or you got nuthin'.
Not finding such a quote doesn't mean that there's nothing going on behind the scenes. But I've done my share of buying into the rumors and trying to get a narrative going that fits the rumors and quite frankly, it's exhausting. Every time I think I've got something figured out, something comes along that contradicts it and I'm left with pointing to something as insignificant as body language to keep my point alive. I've noticed a lot of folks around here try to hold onto their narratives regardless of what comes along to disprove it. I think folks aren't willing to accept that RSmith, McNair, BOB, etc can ever learn from their mistakes so they hold onto a mantra that was at one time true even though it may not be any longer. I think I'm going to go back to the days before I tried to figure everything out and was blissfully unaware that our organization may be run by nepotistic chimps that arbitrarily scheme against one another depending on the mood they're in that day.
 
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I always find it interesting that when the Rick Smith assassins point to Ozzie as one of the best GMs in the league they never point to these 'failures'.

And (while I'm ranting) this "O'Brien is just marking time to finish out his contract" is, quite frankly, just gossip and rumor mongering from talking heads who are trying to attract clicks. I notice they've NEVER produced quotes from anyone directly involved.

Show me a quote from O'Brien that says, "I won't be back next season under any circumstances" or you got nuthin'.

Like you're ever going to get a quote like that. And you know this.
 
Like you're ever going to get a quote like that. And you know this.
You're probably right about that. But like they used to say in my 'hood: Believe half of what you see and NONE of what you hear.

Not into gossip. Never have been.

Bring me data or don't bother.
 
Now, I bet the story is going to be that the Bill O'Brien wanted Mahomes. Rick screwed the pooch again letting KC move up to get him, then he panicked, traded up to get Watson & now he's set the Texans back for the next decade.

I wanted Mahomes

BOB might have too.

It is what it is, this is a Ricky McNair pick for the next HC. I hope he got Watson right. I have my doubts you can win a SB with him although I'm sure Watson will be an upgrade.
 
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