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All encompassing Rick Smith thread

thunderkyss said:
Bridgewater's frailty had nothing to do with the team he was playing for.

All I said was Bortles wasn't ready... meaning he shouldn't have been drafted at #3 overall, much less #1 overall.

& O'b hasn't done crap with developing young QBs. I hope Savage proves me wrong, but I don't believe their plan is to start him this season.

They're saying that now, but I bet something happens between then & now. Being what it is, I'm sure it's going to be something as stupid as Fitz, cutting Fitz to start Hoyer, or giving Brock $37M.
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So.... are we debating or.... because I'm pretty much in agreement with what you just said lol.
 
thunderkyss said:
Bridgewater's frailty had nothing to do with the team he was playing for.

All I said was Bortles wasn't ready... meaning he shouldn't have been drafted at #3 overall, much less #1 overall.

& O'b hasn't done crap with developing young QBs.
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He's only ever had the chance to develop one young QB here, so that's pretty harsh.

If you were a manager and only had the chance to hire, or someone else hired is probably more accurate, one young person, and that person didn't perform to standards, would it be fair to say that you're a poor manager of inexperienced talent?

No. You'd need to hire more and fail to manage more in order for that type of inference to be made.

I don't even count Mallett. That kid couldn't even show up to work.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't even count Mallett. That kid couldn't even show up to work.
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I wouldn't count him either if he had similar issues in New England.

Same thing with Osweiler, had I heard stories of Osweiler having to be physically restrained from assaulting Kubiak I'd blame him for not being able to get along with the HC.
 
thunderkyss said:
I wouldn't count him either if he had similar issues in New England.

Same thing with Osweiler, had I heard stories of Osweiler having to be physically restrained from assaulting Kubiak I'd blame him for not being able to get along with the HC.
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Oz attacking Kubiak? When did that happen? Never heard that one.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Yeah it is pretty clear - he is the GM, I would think that is his job. I believe what most argue against is that he makes his picks with absolutely no input from scouts, coaches, OB. And some seem to think he makes the picks to spite those same people.

GM gets players, coaches coach them - doesn't seem unusual. When I see OB say, "I said I wanted x player" or "I said I want a player with these attributes" and "Ricky told me to **** off, you'll get what I give you" then we have a story.
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Been preaching this for years. Like I've said before, somehow Wade and RAC seem to build top ten defenses with Smith's picks. That tells me they tell Rick what they are looking for in players and he (and the scouts) try and find guys with those characteristics.
 
ObsiWan said:
Been preaching this for years. Like I've said before, somehow Wade and RAC seem to build top ten defenses with Smith's picks. That tells me they tell Rick what they are looking for in players and he (and the scouts) try and find guys with those characteristics.
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& Kubiak built a top 10 offense with low draft picks.
 
TexansSeminole said:
When the head coach makes repeated remarks in which he words things in this way, it's apparent that his input isn't significant. Maybe he tells Rick the type of player he wants and participates in a very limited capacity in scouting the guys, but he's clearly not very involved with it or he wouldn't word it this way. He'd say "we try to draft players" this way, not "we coach whatever players Rick gives us."

It will not get any clearer. If you are waiting for what you said you are waiting on, you're never going to see the situation clearly. OB is smart too, he knows how these comments are going to look when people read over them, so I do think he is sending a message to people outside of the FO.

It's also not unusual, but listening to people here, they make it sound like this is a joint, closer to 50/50 process. It's not. Rick basically dominates this process with little input from his HC. I'd bet that the input from Cal and Bob is more significant than that of BoB. Again, it won't get any clearer.
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So O'Brien went to the combine for nothing?
He's sitting on his hands and playing solitaire on his laptop during all those prospect player visits to NRG? And there have been dozens of them.
He's not gone on a single college visit to witness the 'pro days'??
I mean "his input isn't significant" so why bother?

Damn.... Seriously??
 
thunderkyss said:
& Kubiak built a top 10 offense with low draft picks.
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Because 1. He found his QB. 2. Alex Gibbs was able to find guys like Myers/Briesel off of the scrap heap and make players out of 3rd rd picks like Winston in addition to drafting a guy that was projected to go in the 3rd (D. Brown) in short there's a reason Gibbs was a GOAT type OL coach.

Devlin not so much.
 
steelbtexan said:
Because 1. He found his QB. 2. Alex Gibbs was able to find guys like Myers/Briesel off of the scrap heap and make players out of 3rd rd picks like Winston in addition to drafting a guy that was projected to go in the 3rd (D. Brown) in short there's a reason Gibbs was a GOAT type OL coach.

Devlin not so much.
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So the coaches had input in player selection under Kubiak, but not O'b?
 
thunderkyss said:
So the coaches had input in player selection under Kubiak, but not O'b?
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Alex Gibbs did,

He wouldn't have come here if he didn't. He's a crusty old fart.

And yes, Kubiak and crew had more say in the draft than BOB's crew does. Kubiak got Ricky hired.
 
steelbtexan said:
Because 1. He found his QB. 2. Alex Gibbs was able to find guys like Myers/Briesel off of the scrap heap and make players out of 3rd rd picks like Winston in addition to drafting a guy that was projected to go in the 3rd (D. Brown) in short there's a reason Gibbs was a GOAT type OL coach.

Devlin not so much.
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Yeah... and Kubiak had the good sense to add Gibbs to his staff and to add Shanny Jr. to help him call plays.
Three (going on four) years and O'Brien/Smith are still trying to get their heads together on a QB.
Oh and who is our OC right now....?? What's the pedigree of our current O-line coach? He may be wonderful. I don't know but I know you watch the O-line moves carefully. What's his claim to fame?
 
ObsiWan said:
Yeah... and Kubiak had the good sense to add Gibbs to his staff and to add Shanny Jr. to help him call plays.
Three (going on four) years and O'Brien/Smith are still trying to get their heads together on a QB.
Oh and who is our OC right now....?? What's the pedigree of our current O-line coach? He may be wonderful. I don't know but I know you watch the O-line moves carefully. What's his claim to fame?
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He's a good OL coach that had an injured, not very talented OL. He's not even in the same stratosphere as Gibbs though.

The only OL coaches I would put on par with Gibbs are Hoouck/Scarnecheccia
 
9. Rick Smith, Texans
Last Year’s Ranking: 10

You are correct. Rick Smith not only signed Brock Osweiler, he then gave up on him after one season, paying the Browns a second-round pick to take him off the Texans’ hands. That was a screw up. But Smith isn’t defined by one move any more than anyone else on this list. The single most important decision a general manager makes every year is his team’s first-rounder. Smith has a track record few can match. Since 2007, here are Smith’s Day 1 selections: Amobi Okoye, Duane Brown, Brian Cushing, Kareem Jackson, J.J. Watt, Whitney Mercilus, DeAndre Hopkins, Jadeveon Clowney, Kevin Johnson and Will Fuller. Okoye flopped and the jury is still out on Clowney and Fuller, but that is a ridiculous group. Thanks in large part to Smith hiring one of the game’s best coaches in Bill O’Brien, the Texans have made the playoffs four of the past six seasons. Smith’s team is a quarterback away from true greatness. He may never find it. That doesn’t diminish what he’s already accomplished.
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http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/71467/57/nfls-best-gms-2017
 
zshawn10 said:
Thanks in large part to Smith hiring one of the game’s best coaches in Bill O’Brien, the Texans have made the playoffs four of the past six seasons. Smith’s team is a quarterback away from true greatness.
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http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/71467/57/nfls-best-gms-2017
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That's the only real problem I've got with that snippet. Smith didn't hire O'Brien. IMO, it's the same as letting the coach pick his QB... the GM should be able to pick his coach.

However, in our situation it's McNair's vision that drives the Texans. McNair has a GM who shares that vision, & McNair hired a coach who supposedly shares that vision as well. I say supposedly because he doesn't appear to coach in an "adjust your system to fit your players" kind of way. Instead, it's almost as if he coaches in a way to highlight the limitations of the players he's given.

I'm not advocating that McNair keeps Smith & gets rid of O'b, but that's what the tea leaves are saying. If that's what he does, I hope he gets Smith more involved in the hiring process than he was during the courting of Bill O'Brien.
 
O'Brien sees the handwriting on the wall and he knows this is likely his last year in Houston. Truth be known O'Brien probably welcomes the departure. So he is going to do and say all the right things, be politically correct because he will want another chance at being a Head Coach in the NFL.
 
zshawn10 said:
Well he is in love with Mahomes according to sources; wouldn't be surprised if they try to move up for him or Watson
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I think Savage is O'Brian's QB. OB is definately on board with drafting a QB, we need three, but I don't think with 1-25. The way OB assesses the situation is that RT is our number one priority and he'll want a plug and play to shore up the right side immediately. Robinson or Moton or, maybe, Dawkins are possibilities.

Depending on how the first round goes, Smith may be looking to trade down if we can still get our guy.

But I think OT is what OB wants with that first pick.
 
Number19 said:
I think Savage is O'Brian's QB.
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I find that hard to believe. If that were true I don't see the Texans betting so much on Brock, or O'b sticking with Osweiler for so long.

I'd understand making a run at Osweiler with a hard limit at $16M/yr, ~$24M Guaranteed.

Or better yet it should have been easy to sell McNair/Rick on drafting Connor Cook.

But to guarantee a total outsider two years after only 7 starts... no. I can't believe Savage is O'bs guy. In fact, if we were to draft a guy in the first two rounds, I bet he'll start day 1 ahead of Savage.

Number19 said:
OB is definately on board with drafting a QB, we need three, but I don't think with 1-25. The way OB assesses the situation is that RT is our number one priority and he'll want a plug and play to shore up the right side immediately. Robinson or Moton or, maybe, Dawkins are possibilities.
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The way O'b assesses the situation?

What leads you to believe this?

Or is this the way you assess the situation & you believe O'b sees it like you see it?

As an aside, crappy QB play & all, I think our biggest issue was not being able to convert short yardage situations... which includes not being able to run in the red area. So yeah, I see where you're coming from. Just don't see how you can assess how O'b assesses the situation.

Number19 said:
But I think OT is what OB wants with that first pick.
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Again, why?
 
thunderkyss said:
I find that hard to believe. If that were true I don't see the Texans betting so much on Brock, or O'b sticking with Osweiler for so long.

I'd understand making a run at Osweiler with a hard limit at $16M/yr, ~$24M Guaranteed.

Or better yet it should have been easy to sell McNair/Rick on drafting Connor Cook.

But to guarantee a total outsider two years after only 7 starts... no. I can't believe Savage is O'bs guy. In fact, if we were to draft a guy in the first two rounds, I bet he'll start day 1 ahead of Savage.



The way O'b assesses the situation?

What leads you to believe this?

Or is this the way you assess the situation & you believe O'b sees it like you see it?

As an aside, crappy QB play & all, I think our biggest issue was not being able to convert short yardage situations... which includes not being able to run in the red area. So yeah, I see where you're coming from. Just don't see how you can assess how O'b assesses the situation.



Again, why?
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I posted and you replied, yesterday. And yes, this is my assessment based on everything I have gleaned from the media.

But this morning, I read in another thread on this forum, a media report that says almost the identical thing. This report is supposedly based on sources close to the organization.

This supports my previously made own assessment; but it is from multiple items such as this that I draw my information and then make my my own conclusions.

I'm unable to copy and paste with my phone, but this thread is : What's your plan for QB next season; and was posted at 11:34 PM last night.
 
Number19 said:
I posted and you replied, yesterday. And yes, this is my assessment based on everything I have gleaned from the media.

But this morning, I read in another thread on this forum, a media report that says almost the identical thing. This report is supposedly based on sources close to the organization.
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Fine... nothing wrong with that. I was just a little confused about the "O'b sees it like this" thing. & yes, the reports coming out now seem to support it. My point is that their actions, his included, don't. Had he been talking up Savage, which he hasn't unless he was in a situation where Savage was the last guy standing, but had he been talking up Savage I'd believe that is the way he sees things, or that Savage is his guy.

I vaguely remember when Tom Brady was an understudy, three deep on New England's depth chart & the way he quickly became the #2 guy. It was as if he was named the heir apparent that offseason. The way the talk came out of Foxboro, from the team & the media, you knew the team saw Brady as the future.

Same thing with Romo in Dallas. They talked him up when they signed him. Not that they thought he was anything at that time, only that he could be. Then the next offseason people were talking about the Cowboys drafting a QB but word from Valley Ranch was that they were extremely happy with the QBs they had. Then his third offseason, he was the backup & the plan going forward, should anything happen to Bledsoe, was Romo.

I do not, & never have got the feeling that Savage was even part of the plan. He's always been a "worst case scenario" "last option" kinda thing.

For them to come out now & say he's their guy after the $37M guaranteed to Brock & the dumping of Brock to free up Cap money looking like they're going after Romo until Romo says he's retiring.... stinks of "Savage is our guy" because they have no other real options.

But that's just me.
 
Well, this organization is hard to read. That is for certain, as shown by the comments this off season. Eight days and the team's decisions on this first day of the draft will say a lot. Or won't. It could just get more confusing.
 
TexansSeminole said:
He's only ever had the chance to develop one young QB here, so that's pretty harsh.

If you were a manager and only had the chance to hire, or someone else hired is probably more accurate, one young person, and that person didn't perform to standards, would it be fair to say that you're a poor manager of inexperienced talent?

No. You'd need to hire more and fail to manage more in order for that type of inference to be made.

I don't even count Mallett. That kid couldn't even show up to work.
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It's not that O'Brien only had one chance. It's that he's only taken one chance in the draft. He turned his nose up on many. And I count Mallet because he brought him into the organization. Mallet's issues likely didn't come out of thin air. The Texans QB situation has to be owned by O'Brien as much as anyone.
 
Lucky said:
It's not that O'Brien only had one chance. It's that he's only taken one chance in the draft. He turned his nose up on many. And I count Mallet because he brought him into the organization. Mallet's issues likely didn't come out of thin air. The Texans QB situation has to be owned by O'Brien as much as anyone.
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About Mallett, that's true. I've said before though that the Texans strategy with drafting QBs hasn't changed from one coach to the next, so I think that needs to be acknowledged. I don't think that has more to do with OB than it does the FO, but I'm getting tired of this debate and don't think I have the energy to go through it again.
 
Another thing that bothers me is why aren't the Texans bringing in every Tom, Dick, or Harry that's ever thrown a football for a look see? That's how the Rams found Warner, right? I don't see enough stone turning. For a QB desperate organization, I don't see the due diligence.
 
thunderkyss said:
I find that hard to believe. If that were true I don't see the Texans betting so much on Brock, or O'b sticking with Osweiler for so long.

I'd understand making a run at Osweiler with a hard limit at $16M/yr, ~$24M Guaranteed.

But to guarantee a total outsider two years after only 7 starts... no. I can't believe Savage is O'bs guy. In fact, if we were to draft a guy in the first two rounds, I bet he'll start day 1 ahead of Savage.
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thunderkyss said:
Fine... nothing wrong with that. I was just a little confused about the "O'b sees it like this" thing. & yes, the reports coming out now seem to support it. My point is that their actions, his included, don't. Had he been talking up Savage, which he hasn't unless he was in a situation where Savage was the last guy standing, but had he been talking up Savage I'd believe that is the way he sees things, or that Savage is his guy.
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Rather just that more evidence that there was interference from above.
 
thunderkyss said:
Fine... nothing wrong with that. I was just a little confused about the "O'b sees it like this" thing. & yes, the reports coming out now seem to support it. My point is that their actions, his included, don't. Had he been talking up Savage, which he hasn't unless he was in a situation where Savage was the last guy standing, but had he been talking up Savage I'd believe that is the way he sees things, or that Savage is his guy.

I vaguely remember when Tom Brady was an understudy, three deep on New England's depth chart & the way he quickly became the #2 guy. It was as if he was named the heir apparent that offseason. The way the talk came out of Foxboro, from the team & the media, you knew the team saw Brady as the future.

Same thing with Romo in Dallas. They talked him up when they signed him. Not that they thought he was anything at that time, only that he could be. Then the next offseason people were talking about the Cowboys drafting a QB but word from Valley Ranch was that they were extremely happy with the QBs they had. Then his third offseason, he was the backup & the plan going forward, should anything happen to Bledsoe, was Romo.

I do not, & never have got the feeling that Savage was even part of the plan. He's always been a "worst case scenario" "last option" kinda thing.

For them to come out now & say he's their guy after the $37M guaranteed to Brock & the dumping of Brock to free up Cap money looking like they're going after Romo until Romo says he's retiring.... stinks of "Savage is our guy" because they have no other real options.

But that's just me.
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Savage has been injured too much for this to happen.

If reports are true (I believe they are) then BOB had the choice to bring in Cutler and told Ricky that he wanted to go with Savage.

What's interesting to me about this article (I heard about it on the radio, so no I don't have a link) is that it means Os was Ricky's QB choice, he failed and now BOB is getting his choice. (Savage) Which is only right that BOB should get his choice of QB's since his job is on the line.

I think fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Savage next year if he can stay healthy you will see a top 15 QB. (That's a big if) I know many disagree with this sentiment.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Savage next year if he can stay healthy you will see a top 15 QB. (That's a big if) I know many disagree with this sentiment.
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I think most fans would like to believe it. But there's no evidence of that being plausible. I want to be surprised. But is O'Brien capable of turning Savage into a top 15 QB in essentially his rookie season? Could O'Brien have turned Dak Prescott into a top 15 QB?
 
Lucky said:
I think most fans would like to believe it. But there's no evidence of that being plausible. I want to be surprised. But is O'Brien capable of turning Savage into a top 15 QB in essentially his rookie season? Could O'Brien have turned Dak Prescott into a top 15 QB?
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I believe the answer is yes.

We will see if I'm right. Ricky needs to find a couple of OL and a RB in this draft to give BOB/Savage the help he needs to succeed. My money is on Ricky wont deliver the goods. (Again)
 
steelbtexan said:
I think fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Savage next year if he can stay healthy you will see a top 15 QB. (That's a big if) I know many disagree with this sentiment.
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I like Savage as well. If he gets prepped as the starter in the offseason, I think he can be successful. Of course, everyone's biggest concern is if the guy can stay healthy. I do hope the guy gets his chance next season, but we still need to draft a guy.
 
steelbtexan said:
Savage has been injured too much for this to happen.

If reports are true (I believe they are) then BOB had the choice to bring in Cutler and told Ricky that he wanted to go with Savage.

What's interesting to me about this article (I heard about it on the radio, so no I don't have a link) is that it means Os was Ricky's QB choice, he failed and now BOB is getting his choice. (Savage) Which is only right that BOB should get his choice of QB's since his job is on the line.

I think fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Savage next year if he can stay healthy you will see a top 15 QB. (That's a big if) I know many disagree with this sentiment.
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I agree with you. That's why I'm for beefing up the O-line with the first pick.
 
steelbtexan said:
I believe the answer is yes.

We will see if I'm right. Ricky needs to find a couple of OL and a RB in this draft to give BOB/Savage the help he needs to succeed. My money is on Ricky wont deliver the goods. (Again)
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I'd hate to see it if we're still complaining about the RT position... & the same play out of the RG.

But I'm hoping to see O'b deliver on an NFL offense with what he already has. I want to see the offense attack every blade of grass... screens to the RBs & TEs as well as the WRs. Wheel routes, sweeps, designed cutbacks, misdirection.... complimentary routes that attack a defender & forces him to make a bad decision.

I'm hoping the problem with our offense has been Godsey.
 
steelbtexan said:
What's interesting to me about this article (I heard about it on the radio, so no I don't have a link) is that it means Os was Ricky's QB choice, he failed and now BOB is getting his choice. (Savage)
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I don't believe that is what that means at all. I don't know if O'b found Osweiler & took it to Smith, or if Smith found Osweiler & took it to O'b. But I'm fairly confident they were in agreement to get him at all cost.

I don't think Osweiler was forced on O'b. I believe he could have made the switch anytime he wanted.

I also think his opinion of Osweiler changed quickly once the live bullets started flying.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'd hate to see it if we're still complaining about the RT position... & the same play out of the RG.

But I'm hoping to see O'b deliver on an NFL offense with what he already has. I want to see the offense attack every blade of grass... screens to the RBs & TEs as well as the WRs. Wheel routes, sweeps, designed cutbacks, misdirection.... complimentary routes that attack a defender & forces him to make a bad decision.

I'm hoping the problem with our offense has been Godsey.
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I think the major problem was Osweiler and not the staff. You really do see a lot of open receivers go unnoticed when you rewatch games on an all-22 (NFL Gamepass). It's not just convenient talk, it really happened. I think after that is happening over and over, the offense does become simplistic, because the staff is trying to figure out which plays the QB can actually succeed at. If what Hopkins is saying is true in regards to Savage, I think we will see an offense that looks drastically different, but really is the same offense that we've been trying to run. Even if Savage struggles with turnovers, I don't think he'll be missing open receivers left and right, due to inaccuracy or poor reading.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I think the major problem was Osweiler and not the staff. You really do see a lot of open receivers go unnoticed when you rewatch games on an all-22 (NFL Gamepass). It's not just convenient talk, it really happened. I think after that is happening over and over, the offense does become simplistic, because the staff is trying to figure out which plays the QB can actually succeed at. If what Hopkins is saying is true in regards to Savage, I think we will see an offense that looks drastically different, but really is the same offense that we've been trying to run. Even if Savage struggles with turnovers, I don't think he'll be missing open receivers left and right, due to inaccuracy or poor reading.
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That is pretty much what Osweiler's scouting report said about him, only sees half of the field, slow to process info, questionable accuracy.
 
TexansSeminole said:
...I think we will see an offense that looks drastically different, but really is the same offense that we've been trying to run.
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Basically saying the same thing.


Osweiler had his issues, I'm not denying that. But there's a reason Godsey is a defensive assistant with the Lions & not our OC anymore.
 
James Palmer

✔@JamesPalmerTV
Of Rick Smith’s last 10 first round picks, the last 9 are still on the #Texans

11:42 AM - 26 Apr 2017

C-WloM3UAAA67tT.jpg
 
zshawn10 said:
James Palmer

✔@JamesPalmerTV
Of Rick Smith’s last 10 first round picks, the last 9 are still on the #Texans

11:42 AM - 26 Apr 2017

C-WloM3UAAA67tT.jpg
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James Palmer is seriously confused if he thinks Rick Smith made the decision on those draft picks. The closest Rick Smith can come to making those draft picks is GUILTY by ASSOCIATION. Also 1st RD draft picks are like boiled eggs, it's hard to screw those up.
 
Texian said:
James Palmer is seriously confused if he thinks Rick Smith made the decision on those draft picks. The closest Rick Smith can come to making those draft picks is GUILTY by ASSOCIATION. Also 1st RD draft picks are like boiled eggs, it's hard to screw those up.
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Plenty of GM's screw up their first round picks...every year. I love Rick Smith as our GM as much as the next guy (as long as the next guy wants to fire Rick Smith), but you have to give credit where its due. He is *abysmal* in the middle rounds, but he has been money on first rounders. Especially considering that we have picked toward the middle or back end of the round consistently.

2013. Terrible draft for many teams. Lots of first round busts. We come out with #10 (...aaaand a bunch of nothing else...except Ryan Griffin)

If you want a team with solid starters and no depth, Rick Smith is your guy.
 
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