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All encompassing Rick Smith thread

Players are going to follow the money. That doesn't stop GMs and HCs from signing a 4-3 DT to play DE in a 3-4, or sign a RB who was successful in ZBS to be power RB, or WCO QB to a different system. Happens all the time and more often than not it comes with disappointment.
 
Texian said:
To be perfectly honest, I seriously doubt that Bob McNair would know a good scouting staff from a bad scouting staff. The Texans former Director of College Scouting, Mike Maccagnan, now GM for NY Jets, has created a real dumpster fire in New York.

McNair rewarded Smith for getting Osweiler signed. Sometimes I wonder if McNair even has a clue. Clueless in Houston!!!
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I have to correct you on what Mike is doing in New York. They are in full tank more. In a draft that is expected to yield top QBs and Oline prospects he is ensuring top draft picks. He got rid of any veterans that would complicate the tank. Mangold, Marshall, and Revis. Maybe he does what the browns have down over the years and just start acquiring picks by trading down to build up a young team through the draft.

But i can't defend the taking of Hackenberg. That was pretty dumb.
 
TexansBull said:
I have to correct you on what Mike is doing in New York. They are in full tank more. In a draft that is expected to yield top QBs and Oline prospects he is ensuring top draft picks. He got rid of any veterans that would complicate the tank. Mangold, Marshall, and Revis. Maybe he does what the browns have down over the years and just start acquiring picks by trading down to build up a young team through the draft.

But i can't defend the taking of Hackenberg. That was pretty dumb.
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Hey, Hack was The Pedigree of the QB guru.
You can't go wrong there.

:kitten::ahhaha:
 
banned1976 said:
Why do you think I hate Smith?

Listen, you know I can go through and name a bunch of other players he missed on and you can keep naming other GM's that have missed too. I've never said Smith is a terrible GM, I think he's middle of the pack. What else do you have, what proof that I hate Rick Smith? Nothing? Then move along. I'm not whining about ****, just pointed out some shitty players that played like **** because they had a shitty attitude and didn't do **** to help out their own careers.

So kiss my ass with you're BS that I complain and whine about Smith all the time or that I will if he makes more picks that fail. Unless you have a Magic 8 ball that really is magic.

Now, all that said if this season goes sideways the organization needs to change HC's and GM's IMHO. Want to defend O'Brien now?
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Wow, looks like I must have hit a little close to the bone. Not just you, I said the board is full of hate after reading hundreds of posts absolutely ripping Smith. I quoted you as an example - specifically the part of your post claiming Smith is bad because a couple of 6th rounds from years ago aren't still in the league.

I gave examples showing how completely asinine that is. So either 1) you abandon all rational thought because of your hatred of Rick Smith (you do seem quick to go to the hateful card) or 2) you are just am imbecile who is incapable of rational thought in the first place. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
 
Max said:
Elsewhere it was discussed that a good qb makes a coach look good (which I agree with). I would argue that a good coach makes a gm look good as well. I get the impression that BoB is trying to bring NE to Houston with their culture of not putting up w/ guff or a poor performance or two from players but he left their playbook and any ideas on how to implement it in NE. So players like Strong are cut based on performance when there isn't any opportunity to perform because of an inept offense. I would be fine with getting a new GM, but something that doesn't add up for me in evaluating RSmith is why has the defense performed so well but the offense so poorly? Doesn't it make sense that RSmith has given BoB more input on the offensive side of the ball because he was supposedly a guru? Players brought in on the defensive side of the ball have their potential realized when offensive players have their's squandered -- same GM for both offense and defense but different coaches. Seems like the evidence points to the offensive coach as being the problem to me. All of this to say that their may be some hope for the future of the franchise if we keep RSmith around but find a better coach (or by some miracle, BoB pulls his head out of his ass and turns out to be the offensive guru he was purported to be after all).
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How many first and 2nd round picks are on defense versus offense? Do you think there's a pretty large gap in talent between the two units as I believe there to be? I think that is where part of your answer is. Another part is the QB situation which may or may not be solved. The last part is, O'Brien. I'm not going to defend the guy anymore. He has nowhere to hide, not that he ever did try to hide. But his play calling on offense is poor and leaving Foreman out for the majority of game 1 was negligence, pure and simple.

Like I've written before, if this is going to turn out to be a terrible season, I have no problem with O'Brien being fired as long as Smith goes too. Unless...unless Watson is THE franchise QB we've all waited for and it's not even debatable. As I wrote a couple weeks ago, if Watson is the guy I don't want O'Brien coaching him.
 
Max said:
Elsewhere it was discussed that a good qb makes a coach look good (which I agree with). I would argue that a good coach makes a gm look good as well. I get the impression that BoB is trying to bring NE to Houston with their culture of not putting up w/ guff or a poor performance or two from players but he left their playbook and any ideas on how to implement it in NE. So players like Strong are cut based on performance when there isn't any opportunity to perform because of an inept offense. I would be fine with getting a new GM, but something that doesn't add up for me in evaluating RSmith is why has the defense performed so well but the offense so poorly? Doesn't it make sense that RSmith has given BoB more input on the offensive side of the ball because he was supposedly a guru? Players brought in on the defensive side of the ball have their potential realized when offensive players have their's squandered -- same GM for both offense and defense but different coaches. Seems like the evidence points to the offensive coach as being the problem to me. All of this to say that their may be some hope for the future of the franchise if we keep RSmith around but find a better coach (or by some miracle, BoB pulls his head out of his ass and turns out to be the offensive guru he was purported to be after all).
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More and better talent has been added to the defense than the offense. Look at all of the 1st rd picks on defense, they should be better than the offense.
 
infantrycak said:
During OB's tenure it is 2 and 2. And the last during Kubiak was O.

Kubiak made the O work with lesser talent. OB cannot. To make things worse he has dumped talent.
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Depends on the degree of lesser talent.

Trading 2 picks for Schaub = a 1st

Drafted DB in the 1st

Got lucky with UDFA Foster = 1st

Inherited AJ =1st

Inheriting an injured Foster and an over the hill AJ isn't the same. IMHO
 
Stop shifting the target. You said 1sts. OB has had 2 out of 4 1sts on O (3 really since next year's is spent). Kubiak had 2 out of 7.

And please on the AJ thing. One of Kubiak's 2 was Hopkins, drafted in Kubiak's last year. OB has gotten a lot more benefit of that pick.
 
Biggest differnece is Kubiak had alot more draft say than BOB does. Kubiak essentially traded a 1st for Schaub in yr 3 then went out and had Gibbs find him a LT in Brown.

When BOB's his main failing will have been that he was unable to find his franchise QB in his 1st two yrs.

The new HC will have to deal with a QB not of his choosing like Kubiak had too. History is truly repeating itself within the Texans org. New HC, QB not of HC's choosing, some of the worst OL play in NFL history.
 
steelbtexan said:
Biggest differnece is Kubiak had alot more draft say than BOB does.
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Says you.

Kubiak essentially traded a 1st for Schaub in yr 3 then went out and had Gibbs find him a LT in Brown.
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Kubiak said he wanted Schaub and RS made the trade & contract.

OB said go get Fitz, go get Hoyer, go get Mallett, get team speed.

When BOB's his main failing will have been that he was unable to find his franchise QB in his 1st two yrs.
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That's one. Another is his inexplicable waffling and inability to put any recognizable scheme in place. E.g. try to hire Ferentz for OL while moving toward power blocking.

The new HC will have to deal with a QB not of his choosing like Kubiak had too. History is truly repeating itself within the Texans org. New HC, QB not of HC's choosing, some of the worst OL play in NFL history.
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Please, tons of HCs come in with QBs in place. That's the NFL repeating itself not the Texans.
 
banned1976 said:
How many first and 2nd round picks are on defense versus offense? Do you think there's a pretty large gap in talent between the two units as I believe there to be? I think that is where part of your answer is. Another part is the QB situation which may or may not be solved. The last part is, O'Brien. I'm not going to defend the guy anymore. He has nowhere to hide, not that he ever did try to hide. But his play calling on offense is poor and leaving Foreman out for the majority of game 1 was negligence, pure and simple.

Like I've written before, if this is going to turn out to be a terrible season, I have no problem with O'Brien being fired as long as Smith goes too. Unless...unless Watson is THE franchise QB we've all waited for and it's not even debatable. As I wrote a couple weeks ago, if Watson is the guy I don't want O'Brien coaching him.
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steelbtexan said:
More and better talent has been added to the defense than the offense. Look at all of the 1st rd picks on defense, they should be better than the offense.
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I don't want to get backed into the corner of being a RSmith defender as I think there's legit negatives posted by a lot of guys on here including yourselves. The point that I'm trying to get across is that I think RSmith is catching heat he wouldn't have if we had a better offensive coach and if we get rid of BOB but retain RSmith -- it may not be as dire as the picture painted on this board.

Step back and look at the big picture: Texans were in the top half of offensive teams every year save the first since RSmith was hired until BOB showed up. Since then, we've been ranked in order: 17th, 19th, 29th and 31st so far this year. The obvious difference between those first 7 years and the last 4 is Kubiak vs BOB which makes my point that the coach makes a GM look good or bad -- RSmith is the constant and BOB is the variable.

Agreed with your later post steelb that BOB's main failing so far is the qb situation. I would argue that RSmiths' biggest failing was to buy into BOB's offensive guru reputation and ego that he can make an offense work with subpar talent. He gave BOB the latitude he's had to drive our offense into the ground and we're playing catch up ever since the curtain was pulled back.
 
Max said:
I would argue that RSmiths' biggest failing was to buy into BOB's offensive guru reputation and ego that he can make an offense work with subpar talent. He gave BOB the latitude he's had to drive our offense into the ground and we're playing catch up ever since the curtain was pulled back.
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I was with you right up until the quoted. I don't believe that OB was ever Smith's choice. That was a McNair move and lots here wanted OB here. OB has failed and Ricky doesn't want to go down with him so has done everything possible to make the failure more glaring

RS has failed mainly because he is letting personal relationships outweigh the Team goals. He should either support OB completely or fire him now. Think Texans not 'me'
 
JB said:
I was with you right up until the quoted. I don't believe that OB was ever Smith's choice. That was a McNair move and lots here wanted OB here. OB has failed and Ricky doesn't want to go down with him so has done everything possible to make the failure more glaring

RS has failed mainly because he is letting personal relationships outweigh the Team goals. He should either support OB completely or fire him now. Think Texans not 'me'
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I wish I could like this post 1,000 times.

This is one of the main issues of the Texans. McNair himself being issue #1.

BTW, Anytime you think about McNair's priorities, remember he's a new owner who's learning on the job. But he's apparently learning on the job with 6 other owners on the compensation committee.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I wish I could like this post 1,000 times.

This is one of the main issues of the Texans. McNair himself being issue #1.

BTW, Anytime you think about McNair's priorities, remember he's a new owner who's learning on the job. But he's apparently learning on the job with 6 other owners on the compensation committee.
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After 15 years I think we can retire the term "New Owner". McNair graduated from OJT when he sent the plane for Ed Reed.
 
TexansBull said:
I have to correct you on what Mike is doing in New York. They are in full tank more. In a draft that is expected to yield top QBs and Oline prospects he is ensuring top draft picks. He got rid of any veterans that would complicate the tank. Mangold, Marshall, and Revis. Maybe he does what the browns have down over the years and just start acquiring picks by trading down to build up a young team through the draft.

But i can't defend the taking of Hackenberg. That was pretty dumb.
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Dang it!!!! Did someone let RS know that this isn't the season to go into tank mode????
 
My two cents:

O'Brien had no say in his first draft being that he was a first time HC. RS took the reins and O'Brien observed the "Wonderlic" at work. O'Brien got to choose the FA QB's he would like to pursue to operate his offense, that's a given. O'Brien had more say in the draft regarding years two and three provided he and RS were in complete agreement, otherwise "Supreme Wonderlic" would have to get involved. The year four draft....let's just say, IMHO RS told McNair and O'Brien he was going to pull the strings on the RD1 pick and O'Brien could have more say in RD's 2-7. No inside information here but like they say....a picture says a thousand words. Why was RS the only individual in the "War Room" fondling himself after the Watson pick was announced? Everyone else in the room looked as though they found the situation far too awkward to make eye contact with RS after Watson's name was announced.
 
JB said:
I was with you right up until the quoted. I don't believe that OB was ever Smith's choice. That was a McNair move and lots here wanted OB here. OB has failed and Ricky doesn't want to go down with him so has done everything possible to make the failure more glaring

RS has failed mainly because he is letting personal relationships outweigh the Team goals. He should either support OB completely or fire him now. Think Texans not 'me'
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Does Rick really have the authority to fire OB? We both know he doesn't. McNair makes that decision.
 
infantrycak said:
That's one. Another is his inexplicable waffling and inability to put any recognizable scheme in place. E.g. try to hire Ferentz for OL while moving toward power blocking.
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This is the most baffling part of O'Brien as an offensive coach. His offense has no identity after 3+ seasons. He seems unable, or perhaps unwilling, to throw out the Brady EP playbook and tailor a scheme to his personnel. This is what he should be doing with Watson. Quit trying to force a square peg into a round hole all of the time.

Think mental flexibility like a Bruce Lee quote: “You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”

His offense should become a scheme that adapts to the best qualities of his current players. This is what the great coaches do, especially that guy in New England that was supposed to be a mentor to O'Brien.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is the most baffling part of O'Brien as an offensive coach. His offense has no identity after 3+ seasons. He seems unable, or perhaps unwilling, to throw out the Brady EP playbook and tailor a scheme to his personnel. This is what he should be doing with Watson. Quit trying to force a square peg into a round hole all of the time.

Think mental flexibility like a Bruce Lee quote: “You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”

His offense should become a scheme that adapts to the best qualities of his current players. This is what the great coaches do, especially that guy in New England that was supposed to be a mentor to O'Brien.
Click to expand...

And yet that guy in New England praises him for his 'multiple game plan offense'
 
Double Barrel said:
This is the most baffling part of O'Brien as an offensive coach. His offense has no identity after 3+ seasons. He seems unable, or perhaps unwilling, to throw out the Brady EP playbook and tailor a scheme to his personnel. This is what he should be doing with Watson. Quit trying to force a square peg into a round hole all of the time.

Think mental flexibility like a Bruce Lee quote: “You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.”

His offense should become a scheme that adapts to the best qualities of his current players. This is what the great coaches do, especially that guy in New England that was supposed to be a mentor to O'Brien.
Click to expand...
To be fair to O'Brien, it seems to me that he has started to do just that; adapting the offense to Watson's skill set.
Zone read, play action, bootleg.
Keeping more guys back to block (since Watson is not proficient enough to go to whole field read yet.)

But I do have the worry that Watson can get hurt; sometimes not due to his own fault.
But he was part of it sometimes , like on a couple of stunts in the last game.
I hadn't time it to the fraction of the second, but it was close to the 3 second mark when the DT got to him.
It's true that the Oline was lacking, but Watson also needs to be aware of the situation so as to avoid harm's way.
Almost 3 seconds with the action right in front of the QB should be enough reaction time.
Stand in there only when he really needs to (3rd down).
I'd rather that he steps up even if to take a 3-4 yard sack rather standing there just to throw the ball away.

Again, not his fault, but he needs to learn to protect himself to survive the NFL, before he can realize his full potential.
 
76Texan said:
To be fair to O'Brien, it seems to me that he has started to do just that; adapting the offense to Watson's skill set.
Zone read, play action, bootleg.
Keeping more guys back to block (since Watson is not proficient enough to go to whole field read yet.)
Click to expand...

I hope O'Brien is more fluid than rigid with his offense. The guys on 610 were talking about Kubiak's offense and how it was designed to look the same for both the run and pass, which caused the defense to second guess themselves. This played well with QBs that were good at play action and could roll out in bootlegs. Maybe even mix in a little zone read with Watson, not as a staple but just to keep the defense honest and those OLBs in check in case Watson can threaten to run.

I agree completely about concerns regarding Watson staying healthy. That hit by Atkins last week could have been a Mack truck hit that took him out. Hopefully he's well aware of the various ways that he can avoid getting hit, especially when he's considered a ball carrier. There is no shame in running out of bounds or sliding in order to get up for the next play.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I couldn't help but laugh at all the praise RS gave the medical staff. It really goes to show that he is well practiced at telling people what they want to hear, even if it's total BS. I'll give him credit, he knows how to make everything sound great.
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He's a BS artist.

Used tampon salesman
 
76Texan said:
Right.
And who's to say Brady isn't in some deals that were spearheaded by Kraft?
There could be more than 1001 ways to get paid.
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I think winning is high on Brady's list and that influences his decisions as well. He loves football and is a fierce competitor, that is part of what makes him the GOAT. IMO, it is his love of football and not the money that keeps him coming back year after year at an age when most players' careers are done.
 
gafftop said:
We have seen the team Rick and BOB have built less Watson. I think it is probably the worst in the NFL. Ok maybe we have competition from Cleveland for worst. Past time for a change.
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I was thinking the same thing when viewing parts of the game. Expansion team bad. It seems to me that we are starting a lot of street free agents that were not on the team during training camp. Bad luck or poor planning? Both? idonno:

But then. on second thought, I think we can win with this offensive lineup + Watson, although the Oline is cringe worthy to put it mildly.

Watson has the capability to make all pros of Hopkins and Fuller.

It does appear likely that some of our posters past concerns have proven to be prophetic, that we wasted a good defensive unit waiting for an offense.

Our only hope for next year is for our injured stars to return in good health and that our young players show progress.

It is not very likely that we will be adding top talent to the team next year.

If it sounds like I have written off this year...... I have.

:coffee:
 
Do we really want a team that's always one injury away from being abysmal? I like winning and I like watching Watson but I don't want to see the Texans become the Peyton Manning led Colts with one guy making it all work and the moment he get hurt you can't even get to .500 with the same cast of characters. You don't have to have a team full of All-Pro's but there's got to be some kind of happy medium here (particularly on offense and where the secondary is concerned).

Right now our OL and Secondary are like something from a bad dream. Nobody in their right mind would look at what we have up front and think it's good enough. It's like OB has been on a mission to turn what was a big strength of the Kubiak years into a gaping personnel "sphincter". It's shameful what they've done (and haven't done) to the OL.

The same goes with the secondary. It just seems to get worse every single season and we never seem to do anything about it. The safety spots are like a festering wound that never gets any attention and our corners just suck. Kareem has always sucked and Joseph is aging into suck as well. Kevin Johnson can't even stay on the field for a full season so whatever promise he brings doesn't matter. He can't stay on the field.

We need defensive backs and offensive linemen. Nothing else should matter at this point.
 
Hervoyel said:
Do we really want a team that's always one injury away from being abysmal? I like winning and I like watching Watson but I don't want to see the Texans become the Peyton Manning led Colts with one guy making it all work and the moment he get hurt you can't even get to .500 with the same cast of characters. You don't have to have a team full of All-Pro's but there's got to be some kind of happy medium here (particularly on offense and where the secondary is concerned).

Right now our OL and Secondary are like something from a bad dream. Nobody in their right mind would look at what we have up front and think it's good enough. It's like OB has been on a mission to turn what was a big strength of the Kubiak years into a gaping personnel "sphincter". It's shameful what they've done (and haven't done) to the OL.

The same goes with the secondary. It just seems to get worse every single season and we never seem to do anything about it. The safety spots are like a festering wound that never gets any attention and our corners just suck. Kareem has always sucked and Joseph is aging into suck as well. Kevin Johnson can't even stay on the field for a full season so whatever promise he brings doesn't matter. He can't stay on the field.

We need defensive backs and offensive linemen. Nothing else should matter at this point.
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The demise of the Texans DB's can be attributed to the lack of a steady pass rush since losing Watt and Merc. Look at the Seahawks and Broncos for an example of that it isnt just "talented DB's"
 
DX-TEX said:
The demise of the Texans DB's can be attributed to the lack of a steady pass rush since losing Watt and Merc. Look at the Seahawks and Broncos for an example of that it isnt just "talented DB's"
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Since the team drafted Watt, the DL and LB'ers more than covered for the DB's but man, when anything went wrong with the pass rush, the DB's just looked and were beatable....regardless of their individual positions on the defense.

I've pretty much looked at a team breakdown like this:

Trench **Allows everything to happen**
OL, DL, LB, TE, FB

Window Dressing **Makes everything happen**
RB, WR, DB, P

Key **Keepers of making things happen**
QB, K
 
This is what happens when you trade away so many draft picks.

Only gonna get worse until we stop doing that.
 
DX-TEX said:
The demise of the Texans DB's can be attributed to the lack of a steady pass rush since losing Watt and Merc. Look at the Seahawks and Broncos for an example of that it isnt just "talented DB's"
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Granted but during our best years Kareem and JJo pull this **** where they grab somebody and get called for holding them when we're about to get off the field. Jonathan Joseph is in his 12th year, Kareem Jackson has been a slow-footed penalty machine for years (It used to seem like every time someone threw a ball to his side the play-by-play ended with "....and Kareem Jackson falls down!". The dude is literally **** on a stick. Kevin Johnson was the answer to the problem of at least one of these guys at corner but then it turned out (after his first year) that keeping him on the field was hard to do.

Absolutely we need to get our pass rush back but our corners have known, documented, and slowly worsening issues. They have for years.
 
Hervoyel said:
Do we really want a team that's always one injury away from being abysmal? I like winning and I like watching Watson but I don't want to see the Texans become the Peyton Manning led Colts with one guy making it all work and the moment he get hurt you can't even get to .500 with the same cast of characters. You don't have to have a team full of All-Pro's but there's got to be some kind of happy medium here (particularly on offense and where the secondary is concerned).

Right now our OL and Secondary are like something from a bad dream. Nobody in their right mind would look at what we have up front and think it's good enough. It's like OB has been on a mission to turn what was a big strength of the Kubiak years into a gaping personnel "sphincter". It's shameful what they've done (and haven't done) to the OL.

The same goes with the secondary. It just seems to get worse every single season and we never seem to do anything about it. The safety spots are like a festering wound that never gets any attention and our corners just suck. Kareem has always sucked and Joseph is aging into suck as well. Kevin Johnson can't even stay on the field for a full season so whatever promise he brings doesn't matter. He can't stay on the field.

We need defensive backs and offensive linemen. Nothing else should matter at this point.
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O'Brien always says "I love coaching these players" even though there are a bunch he never heard of until he had to pick them off the street
 
infantrycak said:
Not sure what you consider a lot of penalties KJ averages 5 per season, JJo 3.

Really, the falling down thing? That was s rookie tear thing and overstated even then.
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I've been watching him the same as you have from the day he got here and I know when I'm looking at a **** CB and Kareem is exactly that. I would have thought it was more than 5 per season but then I guess you have to be close enough to your man to grab him to get flagged. Probably accounts for the decline in falling down too (I did say "it used to seem like..."). No need to trip over your own two feet if your not close enough to even make a play.

I believe he's been a disappointment and believe the position could be upgraded. JJo is simply going to need to be replaced due to age and losing a step. That's pretty much inevitable.
 
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