All encompassing Rick Smith thread

[jradMIT]

We will have to agree to disagree then.

BTW, there have been studies done that say having a football team in your town after public funding actually cost the city $$$$. Agree or disagree it is what it is. Regardless having a football team is what's most important to you.

As far as McNair wanting to win, if that was priority #1 his org would operate differently starting with after a 11 yrs of mediocrity firing Ricky McNair and just acquiring the best players possible and putting them on the field. Instead McNair is more concerned with things like leading the leagues finance committee. That should speak volumes to you.

You have essentially reduced his (McNair) entire desire for a championship winning football team to a single decision and assessment, that of GM Rick Smith. That's pretty absurd and gross simplification doesn't even begin to properly describe its ridiculousness.

You question his entire motivation because you think that would be the only reason for him to keep RM. Having a strong opinion is one thing, but believing that it would be impossible for some one to have a different one is a big step further. And I'm not sure about how chairing the finance committee impugns his character? Let's step back to some semblance of reality.

Bob McNair is richer than god, he doesn't need money, I highly doubt this is money making scheme for him, if that was the case he'd be doing more stuff along the lines of what he did with Cogen. He's old is a football fan and wants to win a SB, I don't doubt that for a sec.


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[DocBar]

You have essentially reduced his (McNair) entire desire for a championship winning football team to a single decision and assessment, that of GM Rick Smith. That's pretty absurd and gross simplification doesn't even begin to properly describe its ridiculousness.

You question his entire motivation because you think that would be the only reason for him to keep RM. Having a strong opinion is one thing, but believing that it would be impossible for some one to have a different one is a big step further. And I'm not sure about how chairing the finance committee impugns his character? Let's step back to some semblance of reality.

Bob McNair is richer than god, he doesn't need money, I highly doubt this is money making scheme for him, if that was the case he'd be doing more stuff along the lines of what he did with Cogen. He's old is a football fan and wants to win a SB, I don't doubt that for a sec.


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No SBT is not basing McNair's entire desire to field a championship winning football team on a single season and assessment. He specifically said 11 years of Smith providing the "best players possible" and those players accumulating a very close to .500 winning percentage. That's an indictment on the owner being OK with mediocrity and a "we'll do better next year" mentality and too much loyalty to the guy who is supposed to get the "best talent" available than the GM who is acquiring this "talent".

I'm much more comfortable with a HC who picks a GM than the reverse. The HC has the scheme and the vision. He's the chef who has to mix all of the ingredients together and make them work. The GM is just the guy ordering the ingredients and his personal taste shouldn't matter. Square pegs and round holes argument.

 

[steelbtexan]

Yeah we will - because you have some serious blinders on for anyone that doesn't shout "I hate Ricky".

Easy post

BTW, I dont hate anybody

I do know that as long as Ricky McNair is GM the Texans will never be serious SB contenders.

There's 11 yrs worth of proof, how many more do you need?

Talk about somebody wearing blinders.

 

[steelbtexan]

You have essentially reduced his (McNair) entire desire for a championship winning football team to a single decision and assessment, that of GM Rick Smith. That's pretty absurd and gross simplification doesn't even begin to properly describe its ridiculousness.

You question his entire motivation because you think that would be the only reason for him to keep RM. Having a strong opinion is one thing, but believing that it would be impossible for some one to have a different one is a big step further. And I'm not sure about how chairing the finance committee impugns his character? Let's step back to some semblance of reality.

Bob McNair is richer than god, he doesn't need money, I highly doubt this is money making scheme for him, if that was the case he'd be doing more stuff along the lines of what he did with Cogen. He's old is a football fan and wants to win a SB, I don't doubt that for a sec.

Oh he wants to win a SB no doubt.

But you dont get as rich as McNair is without putting $$$$ 1st.

Look at his tenure objectively as Texans owner and tell me differently. The man has made a billion $$$$ off of this city and has never had a true contender. Meanwhile he's keeping an incompetent GM while he spends his time as CHAIRMAN of the finance committee. If that doesn't tell you where the mans heart truly is the there's a river called denial you need to take a trip down.


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[steelbtexan]

I hit the wrong button. read thru that post if you want too.

Wine is good for the heart.

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Easy post

BTW, I dont hate anybody

I do know that as long as Ricky McNair is GM the Texans will never be serious SB contenders.

There's 11 yrs worth of proof, how many more do you need?

Talk about somebody wearing blinders.

And this is exactly what I mean - I didn't say "I hate Ricky... fire him" so you assume I'm unable to figure out we haven't won a Super Bowl with him as GM. No I get that. I don't care what happens to Rick Smith, if he is the problem fire him. But I don't think he is the only problem we have, like some others have said he seems perfectly capable of getting players that coaches want. Maybe BoB has some blame for fielding a terrible offense?

So there you go fire Rick - I don't think anything would change.

 

[steelbtexan]

And this is exactly what I mean - I didn't say "I hate Ricky... fire him" so you assume I'm unable to figure out we haven't won a Super Bowl with him as GM. No I get that. I don't care what happens to Rick Smith, if he is the problem fire him. But I don't think he is the only problem we have, like some others have said he seems perfectly capable of getting players that coaches want. Maybe BoB has some blame for fielding a terrible offense?

So there you go fire Rick - I don't think anything would change.

Dont be mistaken

Although I think the problems lie like this.
1. Bob/Cal McNair
2. Ricky McNair
3 BOB

I want them ALL gone.

I just dont think BOB has gotten a fair shake. In that he hasn't gotten the QB he wanted. He should've pounded the table harder for Jimmy G, he didn't and will pay with his job after this yr. Will Ricky? Doubtful. He's family and the family business is good.

 

[steelbtexan]

And I can respect that your life experiences give you a particular perspective on the matter. That being said, you don't get to define my position based on your perspective. I'm quite comfortable defining my own position, and it is certainly not a Rick Smith apologist.

If you think I'm trying to define your position, then I truly apologize.

What is your position?

 

[steelbtexan]

Hey man Rickys team finished in the top 25% of the league last year so if you do better than 75 % of the competition how is that not a successful season ?

75% LOL

I dont live in that world.

 

[jradMIT]

I hit the wrong button. read thru that post if you want too.

Wine is good for the heart.

What does chairing the finance committee have to do with anything? Seriously explain how serving on the committee in any way limits or inhibits his ability to be a good owner?

Your whole argument is based on the fact the Texans haven't been a true contender. I completely disagree the year Schaub went down they were a true contender at that point. There's no doubt in my mind they had a legitimate chance, I'll even go a step further, if Schaub didn't break his Lisfranc they would have been a true contender the following year as well. The team was built properly and if pre injury Schaub was still there, they could beat anyone, And who put that team together? Or are you blaming him for for Schaub's broken foot?

I guess you think great GMs grow on trees or you can walk down to the store a grab this year's latest model? You think picking and evaluating players and acquiring them is easy or it's a simple as saying "I would acquire the best players". Darn why didn't RS just think of that?

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/71467/57/nfls-best-gms-2017

RS ranks 9th, even as you will dismiss this as a no nothing writer, who would you hire? Nobody is just on the street with guaranteed greatness written all over them. You would just be taking a shot on a person who hasn't proved a thing.


There are 32 teams, in what is one of the most competitive contests in the world. It's the farthest thing in the world from being simple, not to mention the great amount of luck involved in it all.

Bob McNair probably thinks RS put a contender together before or very close to it, why roll the dice on a complete unknown?

You say RS is not a SB worthy GM, you probably said the same of Kubiak as a coach. The reality is that there is very little that separates the best GM in the League from the mediocre. So much of it all is has to do with luck and things completely beyond the control of the GM. People gush over BB as a GM, but how good would he be if that shot in the dark of a sixth round QB didn't pan out? There's no way you can say he knew Brady was gonna be anything more than a backup. Bottom line it's so much more complicated and gray than the simplified black and white picture you paint.


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[steelbtexan]

To the untrained eye they look exactly alike


I remember meeting you at Bubba's up in the Heights back when a bunch of us would get together and watch away games together. Met Cak, CNNND, Dutchrudder, and DreadHead too (probably half dozen more that I can't recall now). You were grumpy the whole game. And we won. LOL

I dont remember being Grumpy,

I do remember having a good time.

Good times/friends/drinks/football.

Oh, we didn't win the Baltimore playoff game and I was very proud of this team.

 

[steelbtexan]

My definition of success in the NFL is how far a team goes in the POs - The Patriots were the most successful because they went all the way without a loss while the Texans advanced farther in POs than atlesat 75% of the league and re the divisions relative strength: the AFC was not the weakest division in the league, not even the weakest in its conference. The Texans had a good year, but obviously not as good as the Patriots, but the Browns had a really bad year, it's all relative.

If you consider 9-7 and beating a team using its 3rd string QB and missing its LT a success then so be it.

 

[JB]

That's BS. We should have beat the Raiders in Mexico City. No guarantee we'd have lost if Derek Carr would have played.

it was written by some dude for national enquirer... I mean NESN

 

[JB]

I dont remember being Grumpy,

I do remember having a good time.

Good times/friends/drinks/football.

Oh, we didn't win the Baltimore playoff game and I was very proud of this team.

I also remember meeting you at Bubba's. You're a much nicer guy than you let people think

 

[steelbtexan]

I also remember meeting you at Bubba's. You're a much nicer guy than you let people think

That's why we need to make an effort to try to get back together again this season for a game, or on a Saturday.

Maybe we can get Thorn to put things together again. I really enjoyed getting to meet everybody so I could put a face to a name.

 

[sandman]

If you think I'm trying to define your position, then I truly apologize.

What is your position?

Rick is an average GM. Not because he does everything average-like though. He is great at getting (and keeping) 1st round talent, good at getting a metric ton of value in later rounds and UDFA's, sucks in the middle rounds of the draft and free agency. Everything else you like to talk about is your perceptions and assumptions about the personal relationship and hierarchy aspects of the Owner/GM/HC interactions.

 

[sandman]

Dont be mistaken

Although I think the problems lie like this.
1. Bob/Cal McNair
2. Ricky McNair
3 BOB

I want them ALL gone.

I just dont think BOB has gotten a fair shake. In that he hasn't gotten the QB he wanted. He should've pounded the table harder for Jimmy G, he didn't and will pay with his job after this yr. Will Ricky? Doubtful. He's family and the family business is good.

So Fitzy, Hoyer, Mallett, Keenum, Savage, Weeden, Osweiler and Watson were all forced on OB? He didn't want any of them? The whole time he was stating he wanted Jimmy G and only Jimmy G, but McNair/Smith simply refused to do that for him and kept handing him these other guys?

Or is this more a case of YOU wanted Jimmy G and think that OB should have pounded the table harder for the guy YOU wanted? Because I don't recall any sources or articles stating that OB was rubbing one out over Jimmy G and McNair/Smith refused to go after him.

 

[DocBar]

What does chairing the finance committee have to do with anything? Seriously explain how serving on the committee in any way limits or inhibits his ability to be a good owner?

Your whole argument is based on the fact the Texans haven't been a true contender. I completely disagree the year Schaub went down they were a true contender at that point. There's no doubt in my mind they had a legitimate chance, I'll even go a step further, if Schaub didn't break his Lisfranc they would have been a true contender the following year as well. The team was built properly and if pre injury Schaub was still there, they could beat anyone, And who put that team together? Or are you blaming him for for Schaub's broken foot?

I guess you think great GMs grow on trees or you can walk down to the store a grab this year's latest model? You think picking and evaluating players and acquiring them is easy or it's a simple as saying "I would acquire the best players". Darn why didn't RS just think of that?

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/71467/57/nfls-best-gms-2017

RS ranks 9th, even as you will dismiss this as a no nothing writer, who would you hire? Nobody is just on the street with guaranteed greatness written all over them. You would just be taking a shot on a person who hasn't proved a thing.


There are 32 teams, in what is one of the most competitive contests in the world. It's the farthest thing in the world from being simple, not to mention the great amount of luck involved in it all.

Bob McNair probably thinks RS put a contender together before or very close to it, why roll the dice on a complete unknown?

You say RS is not a SB worthy GM, you probably said the same of Kubiak as a coach. The reality is that there is very little that separates the best GM in the League from the mediocre. So much of it all is has to do with luck and things completely beyond the control of the GM. People gush over BB as a GM, but how good would he be if that shot in the dark of a sixth round QB didn't pan out? There's no way you can say he knew Brady was gonna be anything more than a backup. Bottom line it's so much more complicated and gray than the simplified black and white picture you paint.


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As I've stated several times on here, I don't blame everything on Smith, but I do blame him for the Texans lack of depth and poor STs play based on a poor draft record in the middle rounds. Smith has been stellar in the 1st and good in the late rounds (6-7) and UDFAs.

The difference between Texans Kubiak and Denver Kubiak boils down to Peyton Manning, a hellacious defense and a healthy dose of good luck.

 

[Wolfiegrrl]

I think a lot of folks have forgotten what Rick Smith's philosophy is on being a GM. For a refresher, http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/2/21/4012438/rick-smith-and-the-20-70-10-philosophy

Let's ask ourselves, who are his 10 or 11 core players now? And who are the role players?

This may help a lot of folks understand why Bob McNair keeps Rick around. The guy isn't emotional, he's all business. I believe this is why Bouye was allowed to leave. Smith didn't see him as a core player... only a role player.

From 2013 there are at least 3 guys on that list that may still be considered on that list. But in my opinion, there's only Duane Brown and JJ Watt that would still be considered core players. Brian Cushing and Jonathan Joseph, IMHO, have slipped into role player position because of age and injury.

So, how many of us can look at the team without emotion and make the right decisions on personnel that will take us to the SB promise land? Not a single one of us, because it's not our job!

 

[TheKDog]

Osweiler was a core player for one year

 

[thunderkyss]

I'm much more comfortable with a HC who picks a GM than the reverse. The HC has the scheme and the vision. He's the chef who has to mix all of the ingredients together and make them work. The GM is just the guy ordering the ingredients and his personal taste shouldn't matter. Square pegs and round holes argument.

Depends on which organization you're talking about. Denver, Baltimore... the GM is the chef, the HC is the head cook.

New England, Seattle, the HC is the chef, the GM is the grocery boy (if there is a GM).

Houston, the owner is the chef. It's his vision. The GM is the grocery boy, the HC is the chef.

Like I said before, Rick got Kubiak what he needed to field a top 5 offense. Rick got Wade what he needed to field a top 5 defense. Crennel was able to continue fielding a top 5 defense with those guys & a few others. Rick has yet to make O'b look like he knows what he's doing. But it's only been three years

 

[jradMIT]

it was written by some dude for national enquirer... I mean NESN

Also its based on one metric, point differential, which is very misleading when talking about Football not to mention oversimplification to the extreme. In baseball and basketball point differential matters because of the vast number of games. Point differential in football will always penalize the teams with strong defenses and poor offenses, they manage to win games but never blow teams out. The whole number was thrown off by 3 games NE, Minn, and Den (-63). The Denver game was actually competitive till a Blue fumble and a Brock Muffed Pass late in the game. With only 16 games, the sample size is not large enough to use point differential as an end all be all. Saying that they were the worse playoff team ever or close to it, should be taken with a grain of salt to say the least. They had the best defense in terms of yards allowed, which means they could have been competitive with anyone, even NE which they were for 3 quarters.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

What isn't taken into account when you look at the point differentials is that it was not helped and is perfectly in line with the Texans D having only 5 teams with a lower takeaway number than they could manage.

 

[ObsiWan]

Guess that depends on your definition of successful. When you play in the weakest division in the league with the best defense in football and can only finish 1 game over .500 for the last 3 years many would consider that to be kind of average and ordinary, mediocre at best.

Wins and losses are on the head coach.

I dont remember being Grumpy,

I do remember having a good time.

Good times/friends/drinks/football.

Oh, we didn't win the Baltimore playoff game and I was very proud of this team.

It was probably the play calling that made you grumpy.
LOL

I remember everyone having a good time too. For the life of me, I don't remember who we were playing...

And yeah, we should get together again.

Absolutely NO talking politics though
LOL

 

[IDEXAN]

If you consider 9-7 and beating a team using its 3rd string QB and missing its LT a success then so be it.

I'll grant you that because going against a backup QB made Houston's wild-card PO game vs Oakland an easy victory. And they played well for 3 quarters vs the champs in the
divisional round but that's a lame excuse on my part because they play them all for 4 quarters so we still aren't capable of playing the Pats competetivly for a complete game which currently is our ultimate goal.

 

[thunderkyss]

...so we still aren't capable of playing the Pats competetivly for a complete game which currently is our ultimate goal.

Not many teams are. The Steelers lost by the same margin in the AFCCG.

Still, the Texans have been able to beat the teams they're supposed to beat pretty regular. They've also been able to beat quality teams from time to time.

They haven't been able to beat the best teams. But I think they're really close to making it a 50/50 game against the best teams.

 

[steelbtexan]

Wins and losses are on the head coach.

It was probably the play calling that made you grumpy.
LOL

I remember everyone having a good time too. For the life of me, I don't remember who we were playing...

And yeah, we should get together again.

Absolutely NO talking politics though
LOL

Cincy playoff clincher

Baltimore playoff game

No politics allowed

 

[IDEXAN]

Not many teams are. The Steelers lost by the same margin in the AFCCG.

Still, the Texans have been able to beat the teams they're supposed to beat pretty regular. They've also been able to beat quality teams from time to time.

They haven't been able to beat the best teams. But I think they're really close to making it a 50/50 game against the best teams.

I hope you are right thunderkyss but honestly I dunno. We've got the defense but we are gonna have to get settled down at QB with a consistantly capable starter and whether or not Watson will be that guy it's just too soon for me to have any idea about that ?

 

[dream_team]

If you consider 9-7 and beating a team using its 3rd string QB and missing its LT a success then so be it.

Another way to look at last season is:

1. We would have been 10-6 if that last game had any meaning to it.

2. We would have been 11-6, and beaten a full-strength Raider team if the refs didn't screw us over.

3. We took the eventual SB champs to the 4th quarter, until our QB started play for the other team.

4. All this without our best player and arguably the best player in the league.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

And now it looks like we finally know the real story!

Wade Phillips pushed for Texans to draft J.J. Watt
June 11, 2017, 12:35 PM EDT


When the Rams prepare to face the Texans on November 12 in L.A., coach Sean McVay can thank defensive coordinator Wade Phillips for the lack of sleep McVay will be getting as he prepares to neutralize J.J. Watt.

As explained in his book Son of Bum, Phillips had a key role in the decision of the Texans to draft Watt six years ago. After they got an assist from the 49ers.

Phillips admits that the Texans regarded Aldon Smith as the best pass rusher in the draft, but that he was claimed by San Francisco at pick No. 7. And that was fortunate for the Texans; after showing some dominance early in his career, Smith has washed out of the league due to a variety of off-field problems. He’s still waiting to be reinstated after a permanent banishment with the ability to apply for reinstatement after a year.

As Houston’s pick approached at No. 11 in 2011, coach Gary Kubiak and G.M. Rick Smith said, per Phillips, “We’re not going to be able to get an outside rusher, so we’re going to have to go another direction, maybe offense, or whatever.”

“When I heard that,” Phillips writes, “I thought it was time to speak up.”

Phillips told the room that they could put Mario Williams at outside linebacker and select a defensive lineman to place Williams. So they began to try to predict which defensive lineman would be available at No. 11. They focused eventually on Watt, and Kubiak and Smith put that possibility out to a vote.

“The show of hands was about fifty-fifty,” Phillips explains, “but in my mind it wasn’t close. Watt was the best player for us. I stood up and said, ‘I think we ought to take J.J. Watt. I think this guy can help us.'”

Phillips pointed to Watt’s size, athleticism, and his ability to swat passes at the line of scrimmage. And so the Texans took Watt, who has won the NFL’s Defensive Player of the Year award three times in six seasons.

If he can return from that back issues that limited him to three games in 2016, Watt could be in line for a fourth — and he could be in position to create plenty of problems for the L.A. offense when Watt comes to town come November.

 

[thunderkyss]

And now it looks like we finally know the real story!

Wade Phillips pushed for Texans to draft J.J. Watt
June 11, 2017, 12:35 PM EDT


When the Rams prepare to face the Texans on November 12 in L.A., coach Sean McVay can thank defensive coordinator Wade Phillips for the lack of sleep McVay will be getting as he prepares to neutralize J.J. Watt.

As explained in his book Son of Bum, Phillips had a key role in the decision of the Texans to draft Watt six years ago. After they got an assist from the 49ers.

Phillips admits that the Texans regarded Aldon Smith as the best pass rusher in the draft, but that he was claimed by San Francisco at pick No. 7. And that was fortunate for the Texans; after showing some dominance early in his career, Smith has washed out of the league due to a variety of off-field problems. He’s still waiting to be reinstated after a permanent banishment with the ability to apply for reinstatement after a year.

As Houston’s pick approached at No. 11 in 2011, coach Gary Kubiak and G.M. Rick Smith said, per Phillips, “We’re not going to be able to get an outside rusher, so we’re going to have to go another direction, maybe offense, or whatever.”

“When I heard that,” Phillips writes, “I thought it was time to speak up.”

Phillips told the room that they could put Mario Williams at outside linebacker and select a defensive lineman to place Williams. So they began to try to predict which defensive lineman would be available at No. 11. They focused eventually on Watt, and Kubiak and Smith put that possibility out to a vote.

“The show of hands was about fifty-fifty,” Phillips explains, “but in my mind it wasn’t close. Watt was the best player for us. I stood up and said, ‘I think we ought to take J.J. Watt. I think this guy can help us.'”

Phillips pointed to Watt’s size, athleticism, and his ability to swat passes at the line of scrimmage. And so the Texans took Watt, who has won the NFL’s Defensive Player of the Year award three times in six seasons.

If he can return from that back issues that limited him to three games in 2016, Watt could be in line for a fourth — and he could be in position to create plenty of problems for the L.A. offense when Watt comes to town come November.

Thanks for posting that, but I think that's the way most who do not have an agenda already understood based on previous reports.

He didn't mention the deal in place to trade up & get Peterson. After Peterson was gone, then Aldon Smith came into the conversation.

& the thing about the show of hands, Wade getting his say (presumably everyone had an opportunity to speak up) then the consensus decision.

What I find hard to understand is people believing Phillips had so much influence as DC & at the same time O'b has no input as HC.

:scratcheshead:

 

[JWLCASPER]

@thunderkyss

You keep referencing this thread since people are bashing RS across posts on the first page, so I dug it up.

This is my own personal opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

From watching/reading/studying different organizations over the years, I feel that Rick Smith is good at what he does. Before I get stoned (not Thorn's definition) I want to explain.

I always reference Belichick or Walsh in a lot of my discussions because their football acumen is/was off the charts. We can never compare RS to either of these men because they both were so enthralled with football that they owned hundreds of football books and memoirs each. I read in a post earlier that people said Belichick takes more time at his craft than RS. Well when it comes to TEAM BUILDING for HIS CONCEPTS and COACHING HIS CONCEPTS, Belichick cannot be matched in his encyclopedia knowledge of football.

However, Belichick has surrounded himself with brilliant "numbers" people who help him/ the Patriots with salary cap management, how to move assets for other assets, and the "business" side of the game. Belichick cannot hold a candle to Rick Smith in contract language or salary cap management, the "Business Side", but guess what, he doesn't have to. He outsources.

What the Texans need to improve, and they have/did with Brian Gaine before his departure, is bringing in more FOOTBALL minds of Belichick's ilk. Let Tricky Rick and the board room play Monopoly if they want, but have the FOOTBALL minds bring the assets. The Texans have business minded people making football decisions. Rick Smith and Bob McNair (or Slappy the Son) for that matter should not be our "tiebreaker" on football decisions. Business decisions are fine, but not football decisions. We need to go out and spend top dollar and have the highest paid Director of Player Personel in the league (I will be done with law school in a couple years and can offer my services, but I may stick to the player representation side)

There is no salary cap for the front office. Go spend whatever you have to for the Texans to bring in the top tier football minds, and let Tricky Rick be Tricky with his numbers. He's not as bad as people here think he is. I promise if you look at the landscape of the NFL and some of the contracts that have been handed out, RS grades out above average in most of his dealings. I believe he is hamstrung by the puppet strings attached to his trousers by McNair and McNair. The "bad deals" he has done definitely seem to originate above his pay grade.

 

[JB]

There is no salary cap for the front office. Go spend whatever you have to for the Texans to bring in the top tier football minds, and let Tricky Rick be Tricky with his numbers. He's not as bad as people here think he is. I promise if you look at the landscape of the NFL and some of the contracts that have been handed out, RS grades out above average in most of his dealings. I believe he is hamstrung by the puppet strings attached to his trousers by McNair and McNair. The "bad deals" he has done definitely seem to originate above his pay grade.

His contract dealings (at least those he's not dictated to) is not in question so much as the talent he's brought in. I think that's due to the scouting dept he has brought in. He needs to bring in THE top scouting director in the land and then get out of his way. First round is easy... rounds 3 and 4 are where you make a champion

 

[thunderkyss]

His contract dealings (at least those he's not dictated to) is not in question so much as the talent he's brought in. I think that's due to the scouting dept he has brought in. He needs to bring in THE top scouting director in the land and then get out of his way. First round is easy... rounds 3 and 4 are where you make a champion

Most drafts I think we recognize the talent drafted in rounds 3 & 4. Remember Brennan Williams? This board was pretty excited to get him when we did. I think the Rick' s been doing a decent to good job in rounds 3, 4, & 5. I think the coaching has been failing us.

Yes, the 2013 draft sucked. Top to bottom... but for all teams, not just the Texans.

D'Onta Foreman, Jullien Davenport, Carlos Watkins... looks pretty good so far.

Braxton Miller, Tyler Ervin, Kj Dillon, Dj Reader... still a lot of potential there. If these guys don't pan out, I'm not blaming the GM.

Jalen Strong, Keith Mumphrey... still waiting on Strong, Mumph had his moments... but we also got Covington in the 6th

Fido, Nix, Savage... I like Fido, Nix... Rick didn't know what everyone else knew, Savage, some here thinks we can win a Super Bowl with Savage under center. We also got Blue, Prosh, & Hal in the 6th & 7th rounds.

 

[PapaL]

Most drafts I think we recognize the talent drafted in rounds 3 & 4. Remember Brennan Williams? This board was pretty excited to get him when we did. I think the Rick' s been doing a decent to good job in rounds 3, 4, & 5. I think the coaching has been failing us.

Yes, the 2013 draft sucked. Top to bottom... but for all teams, not just the Texans.

D'Onta Foreman, Jullien Davenport, Carlos Watkins... looks pretty good so far.

Braxton Miller, Tyler Ervin, Kj Dillon, Dj Reader... still a lot of potential there. If these guys don't pan out, I'm not blaming the GM.

Jalen Strong, Keith Mumphrey... still waiting on Strong, Mumph had his moments... but we also got Covington in the 6th

Fido, Nix, Savage... I like Fido, Nix... Rick didn't know what everyone else knew, Savage, some here thinks we can win a Super Bowl with Savage under center. We also got Blue, Prosh, & Hal in the 6th & 7th rounds.

And that's what irks me most about the know it all draft heads here; they swear everyone else is batting 1.000 but when you look over other teams drafts they're just as meh as ours. Some hits, lots of misses. Some GMs suck at early picks but can find the diamonds. Others great early and suck later one. RS to me has hit early, missed in the middle, and has been really good at UDFA. Every roster has holes; up to the coach to cover and protect those holes. My 2 cents...

 

[steelbtexan]

And that's what irks me most about the know it all draft heads here; they swear everyone else is batting 1.000 but when you look over other teams drafts they're just as meh as ours. Some hits, lots of misses. Some GMs suck at early picks but can find the diamonds. Others great early and suck later one. RS to me has hit early, missed in the middle, and has been really good at UDFA. Every roster has holes; up to the coach to cover and protect those holes. My 2 cents...

What bothers me is Rick Smith thru 2 HC regimes has proven to be a talent finder that is a 9-7 at best GM and over a decade hasn't been able to gather enough talent to put a true contender on the field. Something else that really bothers me is he only looks at this yrs draft class to fill holes even though there may be more talented people say in the 2018 draft class to fill those holes. In other words Smith is always chasing holes. (LOL) instead of having a vision for the on the field product.

Rick Smith's tenure can best be described as wash/rinse/repeat and you expect more of the same as long as he's here.

 

[steelbtexan]

Thanks for posting that, but I think that's the way most who do not have an agenda already understood based on previous reports.

He didn't mention the deal in place to trade up & get Peterson. After Peterson was gone, then Aldon Smith came into the conversation.

& the thing about the show of hands, Wade getting his say (presumably everyone had an opportunity to speak up) then the consensus decision.

What I find hard to understand is people believing Phillips had so much influence as DC & at the same time O'b has no input as HC.

:scratcheshead:

Times have changed since Kubiak left.

Ricky has more power now.

RE: BOB's season ending PC should tell you all you need to know about how talent is aquired in the Texans org. Also Ricky most certainly ran Gaine out of town since Gaine took a lateral move to Buffalo of all places and Ricky hired Raye over the objections of BOB. (Who wanted Cesario) The pic of the warroom should tell you who was in charge and made the Watson pick This is just another of the signs of dysfunction in the Texans org.

 

[steelbtexan]

Most drafts I think we recognize the talent drafted in rounds 3 & 4. Remember Brennan Williams? This board was pretty excited to get him when we did. I think the Rick' s been doing a decent to good job in rounds 3, 4, & 5. I think the coaching has been failing us.

Yes, the 2013 draft sucked. Top to bottom... but for all teams, not just the Texans.

D'Onta Foreman, Jullien Davenport, Carlos Watkins... looks pretty good so far.

Braxton Miller, Tyler Ervin, Kj Dillon, Dj Reader... still a lot of potential there. If these guys don't pan out, I'm not blaming the GM.

Jalen Strong, Keith Mumphrey... still waiting on Strong, Mumph had his moments... but we also got Covington in the 6th

Fido, Nix, Savage... I like Fido, Nix... Rick didn't know what everyone else knew, Savage, some here thinks we can win a Super Bowl with Savage under center. We also got Blue, Prosh, & Hal in the 6th & 7th rounds.

If this is your expectations then I'm sure you're quite happy with the Rick Smith era.

Meanwhile, the most important unit on the team sucks (OL) and the safety play can be said to be bad at best. The sad part about this is Ricky has had 3 yrs to fix these areas and just hasn't had the time to get around to these areas.

As far as coaching goes I guess 2 totally kinds of HC's just weren't good enough Kubiak/BOB. I would think at some point you might look at the man getting the talent, but you cant do that because as this post points out you think everthing is just fine on the talent end and you're perfectly content with 9-7,7-9.

 

[PapaL]

This seemed like a good place to put this:

The Unheralded Work of Pro NFL Scouts
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/8/24/16195480/life-of-pro-scouts

The NFL draft is the lifeblood of roster construction. It’s where teams find and select their future superstars, the guys that will become integral to Super Bowl wins in the years to come. Excitement and interest around the combine and draft have continued to grow over the past few decades, and around-the-clock, in-depth coverage of the events has developed into a cottage industry of its own. With this, the curtain’s been pulled back as to how teams go about evaluating college players, and the understanding of and appreciation for what college scouts do in order to unearth their team’s next draft gems — grinding tape, going out on the pro day circuit, writing up scouting reports on every draftable player, grinding more tape, building the draft board, and, eventually, winning in the war room on draft day— have never been higher.

But in the process of putting together a roster, the draft is just the beginning — every club must look to outside sources to fill out the rest of the squad. The day-to-day task of accounting for injuries and suspensions, filling holes and adding depth, and keeping the team as competitive and talented as possible falls under the purview of the less famous and less understood counterpart to the college scouting team: the pro personnel department and its cadre of scouts.

From big-money free agents, to veteran-minimum role players, to potential waiver-wire acquisitions, to the ever-revolving door of the practice squad, the men and women of pro personnel departments are charged with knowing just about everything about every player and team in the NFL — and beyond. Teams are rightly pretty secretive about their evaluation processes, their free-agency strategies, and their proprietary grading systems, so I asked a few former pro scouts how they went about trying to build and maintain a championship roster.

 

[Texian]

Times have changed since Kubiak left.

Ricky has more power now.

RE: BOB's season ending PC should tell you all you need to know about how talent is aquired in the Texans org. Also Ricky most certainly ran Gaine out of town since Gaine took a lateral move to Buffalo of all places and Ricky hired Raye over the objections of BOB. (Who wanted Cesario) The pic of the warroom should tell you who was in charge and made the Watson pick This is just another of the signs of dysfunction in the Texans org.

You pretty much nailed it how things are run over on Kirby nowadays. I think you can also throw Osweiler in to the Bob and Ricky McNair MO. O'Brien was really a bystander through all of that.

There is no other draft war room picture quite like the Texans. There is absolutely no doubt that Bob McNair's EGO is front and center every single year.

There are only a few Owners, Head Coaches and General Managers who have the abilities to WIN considerably more than their competition. The Houston Texans do not fit that profile in any category. Unfortunately it is highly likely they NEVER will under the current ownership. No Head Coach or General Manager with a proven track record of winning year in and year out is going to agree to becoming a Bob McNair pawn. So fans are forced to go along with being average and ordinary in Bob McNair's Live version ride of Madden Football.

As to be being 9 -7, one game over .500, this has more to do with the Texans living in the NFL's basement of the worst division in the league. When Wade Phillips' Defense gets old and depleted (which may begin to surface this year) the Texans will return to their all to familiar position of their first 10 years in the league, being last in the AFC South.

 

[76Texan]

You are what the records say you are, in the long run.
The Texans are plus ten with Rick Smith.
Overall, the coaches combine to be better than average.
All that point to a mediocre GM; slightly above average at best.
However, when you look at the playoff record, it's where the other teams that were below the Texans in the WL columns made ground.
A few teams, like the Panthers and the Bears made it to the SB.
Many made it to the Conference game.

Therefore, IMHO, Rick Smith is at best average.

 

[frethack]

You are what the records say you are, in the long run.
The Texans are plus ten with Rick Smith.
Overall, the coaches combine to be better than average.
All that point to a mediocre GM; slightly above average at best.
However, when you look at the playoff record, it's where the other teams that were below the Texans in the WL columns made ground.
A few teams, like the Panthers and the Bears made it to the SB.
Many made it to the Conference game.

Therefore, IMHO, Rick Smith is at best average.

Id like to add that 5 years ago I would have said that RS was below average. My feeling is that he has gotten better (relative to his below-averagey-ness) since 2013. Whether this is because of a stronger scouting department, the hiring of BOB, or just personal growth, I have no idea.

 

[dream_team]

Overall, the coaches combine to be better than average.
All that point to a mediocre GM; slightly above average at best.

This is the key point of contention and where the debate will never end. We have been an above average team since RS has been here. Was it because of coaching or talent acquisition?

 

[TheKDog]

I'm no fan of Ricky McNair, but I'm not giving O'Brien any sort of a pass.

Kubiak built a great offense here.

The joke he trots out there is on him, I don't care how many fake leaks he puts out there about how he didn't want this guy or that guy.

 

[JWLCASPER]

This is the key point of contention and where the debate will never end. We have been an above average team since RS has been here. Was it because of coaching or talent acquisition?

I actually believe the Texans are a top 10 franchise year in and year out in terms of overall talent.

I also believe Kubiak was an offensive genius who had trouble running an entire organization, and thus why he did so well with the Broncos when all he had to focus on was offense while Wade took care of the defense and Elway took care of the team building aspect within Kubiak's parameters.

I believe BOb is nowhere near the mind on the offense that Kubiak was, and we were spoiled because Kubiak's and Shanny Jr's offense when clicking is one of the most beautiful art forms in football. HOWEVER....

BOb is much better at the "overall" picture of what he wants his entire organization to be. He actually is closer to Belichick in this regard than he is Kubiak. The problem that has happened is that because Kubiak failed in this area, Rick and The McNair's have handicapped him in some regard.

This is the key everyone seems to agree on and why the Texans end up in the situation they do. Rick hits on 1st rounders. Rick hits on UDFA. Guess which contracts can blow up quickly to be overslotted? First round extensions and UDFA in year 3 that wants a raise. So Rick hits on the pieces that will cost over slot dollar when time to extend.

Pay grade argument again. McNair and Slappy the son(I actually think Cal is worse if you can't tell by my rhetoric) then want to pay those "STARS" we can't lose. The problem is if there is any decline in production, those extensions become bad deals. Guess who pushes for those extensions?!?

Others have noted that championship rosters are built rounds 3-7. That's because the contracts are super team friendly, extensions negotiations begin at a lower rate, and thus you can lock up those good/great mid rounders a lot cheaper than you can a first rounder or UDFA who blows up.

So to summarize.

Good/Great talent
Good/Great coaching
Good/Great drafting 1st and UDFA
Bad/Average middle rounds
Bad/Average owner input
Bad Contracts due to owner input

This is why we remain top heavy but talented.

 

[76Texan]

This is the key point of contention and where the debate will never end. We have been an above average team since RS has been here. Was it because of coaching or talent acquisition?

In my opinion, Rick Smith benefited from the coaches.
When Kubiak came in, before Smith's arrival in June, he put together a patchwork offensive line, the TEs, the RBs.
The assistant coaches on the offensive side, from Gibbs to Shanahan Jr., were no doubt Kubiak's connection.
Kubiak and then Gibbs know exactly the type of players to bring in to make the offense works, cheaply.
From Kevin Walters, to Mark Bruener, Mike Briesel, Foster, etc.
But Rick Smith couldn't find a DC nor enough players on the defensive side.

With O'Brien, it's the reverse.

Not only that ,Wade was a Kubiak's connection and RC plus his defensive staff were O'Brien's connection.

Rick Smith's job have been made easier by the coaches.

 

[Max]

I'm no fan of Ricky McNair, but I'm not giving O'Brien any sort of a pass.

Kubiak built a great offense here.

The joke he trots out there is on him, I don't care how many fake leaks he puts out there about how he didn't want this guy or that guy.

I think it's fair to lay blame for our offense's performance on BoB -- if Godsey was the problem, BoB should have recognized it earlier and done something about it. That being said, if we're going to blame him for the offense, isn't it fair to give him some credit for the defense? Even if it was simply bringing in the right people and letting them do their job.

 

[76Texan]

I actually believe the Texans are a top 10 franchise year in and year out in terms of overall talent.

I also believe Kubiak was an offensive genius who had trouble running an entire organization, and thus why he did so well with the Broncos when all he had to focus on was offense while Wade took care of the defense and Elway took care of the team building aspect within Kubiak's parameters.

I believe BOb is nowhere near the mind on the offense that Kubiak was, and we were spoiled because Kubiak's and Shanny Jr's offense when clicking is one of the most beautiful art forms in football. HOWEVER....

BOb is much better at the "overall" picture of what he wants his entire organization to be. He actually is closer to Belichick in this regard than he is Kubiak. The problem that has happened is that because Kubiak failed in this area, Rick and The McNair's have handicapped him in some regard.

This is the key everyone seems to agree on and why the Texans end up in the situation they do. Rick hits on 1st rounders. Rick hits on UDFA. Guess which contracts can blow up quickly to be overslotted? First round extensions and UDFA in year 3 that wants a raise. So Rick hits on the pieces that will cost over slot dollar when time to extend.

Pay grade argument again. McNair and Slappy the son(I actually think Cal is worse if you can't tell by my rhetoric) then want to pay those "STARS" we can't lose. The problem is if there is any decline in production, those extensions become bad deals. Guess who pushes for those extensions?!?

Others have noted that championship rosters are built rounds 3-7. That's because the contracts are super team friendly, extensions negotiations begin at a lower rate, and thus you can lock up those good/great mid rounders a lot cheaper than you can a first rounder or UDFA who blows up.

So to summarize.

Good/Great talent
Good/Great coaching
Good/Great drafting 1st and UDFA
Bad/Average middle rounds
Bad/Average owner input
Bad Contracts due to owner input

This is why we remain top heavy but talented.

I think Rick isn't a strong GM like Elway is, for comparison.
His player evaluation skills (including FA), besides the DB (which isn't clean either) are questionable, if we look back at them one by one.

 

[76Texan]

I think it's fair to lay blame for our offense's performance on BoB -- if Godsey was the problem, BoB should have recognized it earlier and done something about it. That being said, if we're going to blame him for the offense, isn't it fair to give him some credit for the defense? Even if it was simply bringing in the right people and letting them do their job.

Yes, but O'Brien was also lucky that RC was available right off the bat and was willing to come back as a DC.

 

[Max]

Yes, but O'Brien was also lucky that RC was available right off the bat and was willing to come back as a DC.

I'm not coming from the angle of defending BoB as I'm not exactly in his corner. I feel like I'll have a better sense of what kind of coach he is as we see how the offense does this year with him at the helm and see if he's progressing or if he's over his head. To make an assessment though you have to be fair and I'm not sure how to do that if we're blaming him for things that go wrong but when things go right, it's 'lucky'.