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AJ no show/now back to work
- Thread starter BigBull17
- Start date
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
To support the team, not the individual player. In today's NFL you can't support individual players anymore. They're here one day and gone the next.
I remember when Jonathan E. became bigger than the corporation. That got ugly.
First bold: I wonder if Smith has a policy for himself to get these situations resolved before it comes to missing team activities. These negotiations didn't start yesterday.
Second bold: Did he also point out what happened to Owen Daniels when he was unhappy with his contract?
Third bold: Of course not! That will be up to unnamed sources.
There will also be the conversational sleight-of-hand that results in the spin management as in the first bolded text.
I remember a time whent he Texans' fans were wishing for more media attention.
Kinda funny ya know... careful what you wish for kind of thing.
I'm sure there is more to this story, than what we've seen so far. I think it's funny so many have already turned on AJ.
This is Andre Johnson, who has yet to say anything about this, and he's already a P.O.S.
Andre isn't at OTAs... why not? Does anyone really know? I remember there was a time when he didn't do OTAs... or something, choosing to workout at the U instead.
From Rick Smith's comments, it doesn't sound like the Texans are wanting to play hardball.
So how does that fit into all this? I don't know... none of us know.
But we all know sitting out of OTAs in protest of his contract doesn't sound like our Andre Johnson.
Kinda funny ya know... careful what you wish for kind of thing.
I'm sure there is more to this story, than what we've seen so far. I think it's funny so many have already turned on AJ.
This is Andre Johnson, who has yet to say anything about this, and he's already a P.O.S.
Andre isn't at OTAs... why not? Does anyone really know? I remember there was a time when he didn't do OTAs... or something, choosing to workout at the U instead.
From Rick Smith's comments, it doesn't sound like the Texans are wanting to play hardball.
So how does that fit into all this? I don't know... none of us know.
But we all know sitting out of OTAs in protest of his contract doesn't sound like our Andre Johnson.
awtysst
Draft Guru
I would not pay him another dime. He is going into year 3 of an 8 year deal?! I would certainly reward him with a good contract(based on age and other circumstances) if this were year 6 of an 8 year deal.
AJ is seeing the Texans doling out contracts and is getting greedy.
I say let him sit, if thats what he wants.
AJ is seeing the Texans doling out contracts and is getting greedy.
I say let him sit, if thats what he wants.
Today's sports fans will make Rollerball a reality.
Working late, I heard about the AJ no show (it's not a holdout people) on the Barry Warner show on the drive home. I knew that there would be a $%@!storm on the forum for this. For no reason at all. I was going to post something to the effect of what DB said. As usual, he just does it better.
But, let me ask the folks here who believe a contract is a contract, and should be honored. Regardless. Where were the venomous protests towards the front office when the Texans released Ahman Green. He still had years on his contract. That's not right.
They did the same thing to Eric Moulds. And Gary Walker. Anthony Weaver. And yes, even to little David Carr. Did David Carr suck, basically quit on the team, and become untradeable? Yes. But, that doesn't mean you can cut a guy with years (and $millions) remaining on his contract. I mean, a contract is a contract. Right?
Wrong. For you and me, a contract is a contract. In the NFL, a contract is a bargaining chip. It's a business that is completely out of touch we the reality we live in. Attempting to relate your ethics in your everyday life to what happens in the NFL is laughable. Yes, I have laughed at some of your posts. Sue me.
Having said all of that, I would bet that AJ would be at the voluntary practice session tomorrow. If the Texans would only guarantee the remaining years on his existing contract. About $30 something million. Just honor the contract, Texans. What's so wrong with that?
Let the rationalizations begin...
awtysst
Draft Guru
But thats the way it is with any business. The people who have the most to risk, ie the owners make the most money and the workers make substantially less. And quite frankly, thats the way it should be. He who has the most to risk has the opportunity to make the most.
Finally someone speaking with common sense and not blind emotion. If you want to get mad at some one get mad at McNair he is a billionaire him paying Andre aint gonna bankrupt him.Antonio Bryant should never be paid more then Andre, thats like Mark Sanchez being paid more then Manning
awtysst
Draft Guru
The Texans have no reason to give him any more money. They already signed him to a very lucrative contract with a lot of guaranteed $. AJ has seen Meco get a nice contract and now he wants his. Problem is, AJ does not deserve a new contract.
If we give AJ a new contract it sets up a REALLY bad precedent. Basically it would mean that the team would be willing to renegotiate contracts every 3 years. What is the purpose of locking up a player longterm if they will want a new contract every 3 years?
I get why AJ wants a new contract, but has always been the case to this point, I will side with the Team before I side with an individual player.
awtysst
Draft Guru
SO what is McNair is a billionaire. That has nothing to do with the situation. There is a salary cap in place. This is not baseball where you can sign all your players to as much as you want. We need to operate under a specific number. Giving too much to one player means you cannot pay another. AJ is a great player but one player is not more important than the team.
Houston_Fanatic
Maximum
Pay the man, Shirley........
Did I say give AJ a new contract? I suggested the Texans guarantee the contract already given. Is it a bad precedent to cut players whose contracts have yet to expire? I mean a REALLY bad precedent? What will potential signees think about the Texans if they don't honor existing contracts?
I can play this all night long. Or until I go to bed. I never get tired of watching a dog chase his tail.
Awesome!
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Yeah, because Smith should just bend over and take it from every player who wants a new contract. Players don't really start their negotiations until there's something to "hold out" from. That's where they have the most leverage.......when their missing team activities.
Umm...what happened with Owen Daniels? We was the best TE in football until he got hurt. It happens, this is football...people get hurt. Andre could step out of his hot tub and fall through his sliding glass door just like Pence tomorrow
And....why would we expect anything different...confused????
Rick Smith isn't getting paid to bend over and give in to every single request. He's getting paid to "negotiate contracts" for the betterment of the team....and HE'S DONE THAT.
But yeah, Andre deserves his 3rd contract in 7 years...because that kind of crap happens every day. Especially when you were a #3 ovrl pick and were locked into a longterm deal from the get go.
If Andre is pissed about his contract he needs to talk to his Unc....not Smith. The man has no business pulling out of a 8 year deal after he's only honored 3 years of it and I hope Rick Smith tells him that.
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NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
I disagree. That's an unfair blanket statement. I believe that the NFL and many of their players are huge philanthropists. They give back. I've personally seen them do random acts of kindness off the field unbeknownst to ANYONE. They give a damn. I know Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and especially Dunta Robinson give a damn.
Jason Simmons comes to mind...
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
So can I....
How about the player who signs a blockbuster deal and then becomes a absolute BUST? Is he required to give back his mega signing bonus? If his contract was "guaranteed" and Andre tears up his knee tomorrow and is a shell of himself is he going to rip up this new contract that he wants? I highly doubt it.
There's a reason why contracts aren't guaranteed (football is a VIOLENT sport so contracts should NEVER be guaranteed) and honestly I don't understand the "contracts aren't guaranteed, so Andre is well within his right to demand a new one" argument when it relates to Andre. He wasn't a rookie and he AGREED to the contract that he is currently under....he wasn't forced to sign it and wasn't forced to sign here like a new draftee/rookie, he could've easily signed elsewhere. He CHOSE to sign it...atleast honor half of the freaking contract that you were happy to sign just a couple of years ago.
There is a repeating occurrence with Andre and his Uncle and it's....sign a long term deal with a big signing bonus and check out early to ink another long term deal with another big bonus. He's asking for his 3rd contract in 7 seasons.....that's ridiculous and I don't care who you are, you could be the freaking pope and that's too much. No way in hell should the Texans rip up a supposed "team friendly" contract and soon as the "team friendly" part of the contract kicks in.
So you're admitting that NFL contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on. The only thing that counts is the $$$ that changes hands. Is so, then what's your beef with a player going back for more $$$? It's a violent sport, and nothing's guaranteed.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
If he were to be cut today, he would have made about $30 million for his last three seasons. Then, he would have the opportunity to be signed by someone else with that $30 million in his pocket... not to mention the $20 million he earned under his rookie deal before the team voluntarily gave him a new contract with two years left on his rookie deal.
If OD, Bernard Pollard, or Zac Diles chose to holdout I would have no problem with it... In fact, I would be supportive. Those guys have played well and have yet to receive a big payday, while AJ has already had two huge paydays. Not to mention the fact that they are at the backend of their deals while AJ is only 37% through his. AJ is the one that wanted the 8 year extension... It isn't as if he was slotted into a deal like rookies are. It was his choice and he was excited to sign the deal.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Again my beef isn't about players trying to get paid.......it's about players crapping on a contract THAT THEY JUST SIGNED AND CHOSE TO SIGN when they haven't even played half of it out. Andre isn't a rookie and he isn't some player who was signed off the street who outperformed his contract. Andre already got his signing bonus...he got two of them already, and now he wants a 3rd signing bonus in 7 years. HE'S BEEN PAID, that isn't the issue here. The scale balance has more than tipped in his favor....he is in NO position to be griping about another contract (and Rick Smith would be brain dead to give him one. What he needs to do is fire his idiot Uncle.
You're conveniently leaving off the cap relief AJ gave the Texans with his last re-up. Cap relief and an All Pro WR. Sounds like the Texans got a pretty sweet deal.
Besides, that's not the point. If the Texans released AJ tomorrow, they would not be honoring the contract. Is the problem with AJ not "honoring" his contract (which is doing, BTW)? Or is it something else? Can someone please explain what their beef with Andre Johnson? Why is it OK for the organization to tear up contracts (which I agree with their right to do so), but not OK for players to attempt to renegotiate? Why?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Can we vote on this?
Go ahead.......because he doesn't deserve a new contract. How many top 3 picks get 3 contracts in 7 seasons?
Andre Johnson is out of his mind...or his uncle is.
I didn't suggest Smith bend over for everybody. I suggested he negotiate with the best receiver in football. The difference isn't very subtle.
Daniels did the same "right thing" has Demeco. He got hurt and hasn't gotten paid. That's why players want money early - and why the team doesn't want to give it to them.
I don't expect anything different from the team, nor do I the player. They are both doing what is in their own self interest - to a point. At some point if becomes self-destructive to one or both.
I'm just pointing out it take the team and the player to make these negotiations successful. I don't see the black and white absolutes some do. I also don't have the anger towards the team some have for the player.
So it's OK to ask for a renegotiation? If the player has finished half of the years on a contract? So next offseason, you would have no problems with AJ looking for a new deal?
Yes, AJ has been paid. And he has performed. Now, he wants to get paid, again. Based upon expectations that he will again perform. Should he not get the maximum amount he can possibly earn? It's a violent sport and nothing should be guaranteed.
So is your position now that contracts are not guaranteed?
I'm just trying to keep up.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
LOL....what "cap relief"
We already explained this. It's the players right to hold onto a signing bonus when he sucks.(does said player try to offer that back when he flames out of the league or is severely injured?).......we also talked about how Andre is NOT A ROOKIE and was allowed to negotiate this contract. He would've been free to sign with anybody for what every price that he wanted to sign with them...and he did. He chose to sign with Houston for a so called "team friendly deal" that wasn't so friendly to him once the "team friendly" part of the deal kicked in and fans still try to act like it was "team friendly".
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
So is your position now that contracts are not guaranteed?
I'm just trying to keep up.
If you really want to keep up then you need to go back and read what I typed regarding the situation instead of trying to be cute and taking sentences out of context..
It's not that hard to figure out my argument and what I meant.
The only reason someone signs an eight year deal, is so they can spread that guaranteed money over 8 years.
Is that why you are calling the whole thing "Texans friendly" ?
If you really want to keep up then you need to go back and read what I typed regarding the situation instead of trying to be cute and taking sentences out of context..
It's not that hard to figure out my argument and what I meant.
No, it's kinda hard to follow. Either it's guaranteed, or it's not. You seem to be fine that the team doesn't have to honor their end of the bargain, but AJ has to.. that doesn't make any sense.
I understand the salary cap implications. But that is for Rick Smith to figure out. Guarantee him $80 million on a 20 year contract. Make it all roster bonuses over the next 6 years, who cares?
To me, it's a simple question, is he fairly compensated or not? 3 years ago, we paid him whatever we paid him, relative to the level he was playing at that time, compared to the receiver in the league at that time. He is better now, than he was three years ago. He is better than any other receiver in the game today... that was arguable 3 years ago. It's a fact today.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
You can't look back on a contract that was inked years ago and act like it wasn't fair the day it was signed...
If that's what we're going to do....the go ahead and give Andre a 2 year 20 million dollar signing bonus and 47 million contract and then a 30 million dollar signing bonus and 60 million dollar contract the 2 years after that.and P.S. I hate to break this to Texan fans, but the "team friendly" part of the contract wasn't "spread over the whole damn thing". The guy has already been paid half the amount of the contract and it wasn't until his yearly base salary dipped that he started griping about that contract.
Is he griping? I haven't heard any griping.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
My god, do you read or not. I never said contracts are "guaranteed" and I never said "Players have to honor their contract" (just atleast the majority of it) I said siding with players that chose to hold out on the simple basis that they aren't guaranteed is a faulting argument (and it is), because players get drafted year in and year out and become the highest paid players at their positions regardless of production.....let alone they get to hold on to 40 million dollar signing bonus regardless of the fact that they suck.
Stop trying to put words into my mouth.....I really don't give a crap that contracts aren't "guaranteed" because players' performances aren't guaranteed either and when was the last time that you saw a player who offered up coin when he didn't produce? Andre Johnson was a free man...a free man who signed a 8 year contract...atleast honor halft of it and not become the 1st top 3 pick who has his 3rd contract in 7 years.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
It's $15m guaranteed spread over 8 years. That's pretty damn friendly for the best player at any position in the league. Also, it's 8 years long, which seems to be pretty friendly
CarrBombed said:
Give the guy a 3 or 4 year contract similar to Fitz or Marshall, I mean ****, it's not like we signed a bunch of expensive FA's this season and there's just not any money left. Are we afraid AJ is going to go Albert Haynesworth on us? Do we think that he's going to be pissing and moaning about his contract if he's not the best WR in the league?
I mean some people are acting like this guy has no right whatsoever to ask for more money because you know, he signed a contract in good faith to play for the Texans for 8 freaking years. So yeah, since he signed a ridiculously long contract which would benefit the Texans, screw him. That dumbass.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Oh crap...LOL Like a absence of OTAs isn't enough to signify a grievance. Please cut the political correctness.
NEWSFLASH I'm pretty sure a player that stays home and says he wants more money is "griping" about something. 
Oh lord... seriously lol
Oh crap...LOL Like a absence of OTAs isn't enough to signify a grievance. Please cut the political correctness.
Andre hasn't said anything yet.
A reporter noticed he wasn't there. A reporter recalled Andre's Uncle saying something. A reporter asked Rick Smith a question about Andre's Contract.
I think Rick Smith did a fine job not dodging the question, and not building any unneeded animosity.
It's speculation by a reporter. They are fishing. Someone said AJ was working on his degree back at the U.
No one said anything about AJ holding out of OTAs because of a contract dispute. What have you ever seen to make you suggest that is the way Andre would handle his business?
Maybe I should say it a different way, a way you can understand.
Baaa... Baaaa. Baaaaaaa.
how's that?
playa465
Veteran
Repped!!!!
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
No, it is about him not honoring his contract. There are times when I am very supportive of a player holding out for a new deal when they are under contract. This isn't one of them, though. He's made over $50 million since 2003. There is absolutely no threat that the Texans would cut him, even if he suffered a season-ending injury. He's scheduled to make at least $6 million each of the next 5 years. It is absolutely ridiculous that he would threaten a holdout under these circumstances. I have no problem with him going to the team and talking to them about a new deal. But, he's behaving like a 3 year old kid on halloween that has had 8 pieces of candy and has a bucket full and is throwing a temper tantrum because his parents won't let him eat the hole bucket in one night.
MAYBE Andre is taking one for the team. Maybe he and Smith have already quietly worked out a contract renegotiation, he's finishing up his degree at the U, and they fabricated this "holding out" story to distract the media away from Cushing? If so, that's freaking brilliant.
It also just struck me that this is an uncapped year. Why not frontload his contract NOW so a holdout demand in the future doesn't hurt the team? take $3MM from each of his remaining 5 years, pay it out as a bonus THIS year, and he makes $3MM less over the next 5 years, which would also be guaranteed? Salary cap relief, guaranteed contract, and he gets the big chunk up front.
It also just struck me that this is an uncapped year. Why not frontload his contract NOW so a holdout demand in the future doesn't hurt the team? take $3MM from each of his remaining 5 years, pay it out as a bonus THIS year, and he makes $3MM less over the next 5 years, which would also be guaranteed? Salary cap relief, guaranteed contract, and he gets the big chunk up front.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Because when you frontload a contract, this is what happens. He made $30 million in three years and now he's pissed be he is only scheduled to make $30 million over the next 5 years. Front loading his deal again would only lead to another holdout!
by the way, the $60 million contract was a good deal because they tore up the last two years on his rookie deal. So, instead of getting about $1.5 -$2.0 million in base salary those last couple years, he received a $15 million signing bonus and about $5 million in salary each of those first two seasons.
Try to be accurate in your statements. Details on AJ's 2nd contract:
Vets with back loaded contracts tend to get cut. AJ will be 30+ over the last 4 years of his deal. What happens to 30+ players in this organization? You can't blame Johnson for wanting the $$$ upfront. Besides, the Texans could just guarantee the remaining $30 million, and AJ could make you happy by showing up at voluntary practice (insert Iverson rant here).
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Everytime a multi-millionaire player cries about their contract my respect for them fades away.
Come and complain when you have a real problem Andre Johnson.
Come and complain when you have a real problem Andre Johnson.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I'm very supportive of mid or late round picks who reach the 3rd or 4th year of their rookie deals and try to get a new deal. But, it's awfully hard to be sympathetic towards a guy that has over $50 million in his twenties and is unhappy with the fact that he's scheduled to make $6 million this season.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
AJ is just acting like a kid.
THIS
...and another ~30MM if he continues to play at a high level another 4 years after.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Not hard for me to understand when I see how he pays for children to have a shopping spree at OVER PRICED TOYS R Us with one swipe of his credit card, buys a whole crap load of bikes from Walmart to give to under privledged children.
It's not hard for me to understand when I see that he outplayed his rookie contract to get the extension and now has become one of the top 5 best players in the league which means he's outplayed his extended contract.
If this were a guy that was flapping his jaws all the time, writing Pay Me Rick on his shoes when he's only had one Pro Bowl type season or only caught 3 TD passes in two seasons I would understand. However this is Andre Johnson. The only player on our team that when anyone around the league talks about him they speak as if he's the best player in the league at his position. You can pull out any tape of The Texans since he's been on our team and you would be very hard pressed to find a player that wants to win more than Andre Johnson (Arizona game, the Dolphins game in 2008, Tennessee game in 2009 etc...)
Pay him!
GP
Go Texans!
AJ is just acting like a kid.
I see what you did there.
[coachspeak]He didn't execute properly on his previous contract negotiation, though.[/coachspeak]
BullNation4Life
All Pro
WOW! 13 pages about a bunch of nothing....
I thought the Dez Bryant issue got ridonkulous fast and I helped it get there. This issue used Chris Johnson, Getting away from the Cops speed to reach ridonkulous status....
AJ is not missing any significant time. OTAs are freaking stupid anyway. They should be for 2nd stringers and rookies, not proven Vets, which is why they are voluntary and why players cannot be fined for missing.
He wants equal guaranteed money to that of an elite WR today, and so he is about 17.5 million shy of being there. It is a simple fix the Texans can solve and move on, if they choose to, and still have AJ fulfill his existing contract....
I thought the Dez Bryant issue got ridonkulous fast and I helped it get there. This issue used Chris Johnson, Getting away from the Cops speed to reach ridonkulous status....
AJ is not missing any significant time. OTAs are freaking stupid anyway. They should be for 2nd stringers and rookies, not proven Vets, which is why they are voluntary and why players cannot be fined for missing.
He wants equal guaranteed money to that of an elite WR today, and so he is about 17.5 million shy of being there. It is a simple fix the Texans can solve and move on, if they choose to, and still have AJ fulfill his existing contract....