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AJ no show/now back to work
- Thread starter BigBull17
- Start date
sometexansfan
Blue Bomber
The guy has had back to back 1500 yard seasons for us, he's the best WR in the NFL! If he wants to get paid like it, fine by me.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Business is about leverage, not principles.
What matters isn't how much he's getting now, but how much he's getting based on his market value.
sometexansfan said:
Problem is, he just got paid. Still has 5 years(?) left on his deal.
You tellin' me each year a top WR gets a new contract, AJ gotta get a new one?
Brandon Marshall got his contract. Top paid WR I believe or is going to be.
What if next year, lets just say Larry Fitzgerald or Chad Ochocinco, are paid as the new highest paid WR, we gonna go pay AJ again?
Why are you surprised?
These aren't family members or close friends. They are strangers for all intents and purposes. Hell, most of us hardly recognize their faces because they wear full helmets and masks when we see them.
We judge players by a few small pieces of information:
How good are they at football
How much do they help our team
How likeable are they off the field
What are they like off the field
etc
AJ is the best football player on this team
He is indispensible to the offense of our team
He is extremely likeable and polite
He is not a trouble maker off the field
If something in this list changes (he goes from helping the team to hurting the team for example, or he goes from likeable off field to greedy off field) it is a big shift because we know so little about the players to begin with.
Aj seemed like a guy who wanted to win more than anything. Now he's jeopardizing the team (him not being at practice does hurt the whole team) on purpose to restructure a 6 year contract he's not even a 3rd of the way through. Thats a big shift from the AJ we all "knew"
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Rep.
This is 100% on AJ in my mind.
Players complain about wanting long term deals because they want that insurance policy in case they get injured.
AJ got a 6 year deal 2 years ago.
Either you take the short term deal and hope your play improves and you can get an even larger deal, or you take the long term deal and you wait until you're at least halfway through.
The timing on this is just awful.
Players complain about wanting long term deals because they want that insurance policy in case they get injured.
AJ got a 6 year deal 2 years ago.
Either you take the short term deal and hope your play improves and you can get an even larger deal, or you take the long term deal and you wait until you're at least halfway through.
The timing on this is just awful.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I doubt it, but the assumption, based on the player's perceived leverage, is that it will extend through TC. The Texans need to nip this in the bud professionally immediately, before it spirals into an emotional circus.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
It's Houston. We're a bunch of hard working people that expect the same from the athletes we watch. If you're a prima donna then you best be on your way. If you're upset at the millions of $'s your making, then you're not going to get sympathy from us. Adjust your panties and get back to playing. That's who we are.
All these contract disputes always frustrate the crud out of me. Part of it is I completely see both sides of the table and I feel for both sides. Andre's case is different to me though. In my mind, he is easily the best WR in the league. He is nothing but a class act on and off the field. He's a leader, he's EXACTLY what you want in a football player and citizen of your City. But on the other hand, he just signed a long term deal. 2007, he signed an 8 year deal! He leads the league in receptions and yards for 2 straigth season - performance often speeds up renegotiating. But you have to believe in 07, he was already viewed as one of the top WRs in the league and expected to perform at a very high level. You don't buy an 8 year CD right now if you think rates are going to rise. But the NFL is a completely different beast.
At the end of the day, It's Andre Johnson. You pay the guy and make sure he retires a Texan. Just sign him to another 8 year deal so you can go back to the table in another couple years....
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
Thats what is wrong with the world today everybody is out for them selves, business, and money is all that matters. GREED!
If I was a player I would not be concerned with honoring a contract when owners are not held to the same standards. They can pretty much cut a player at anytime and only have the salary cap to worry about.
All this time I kept thinking that AJ was a better man than me because if I was the top (1 or 2) player at my position I'd want to be paid like it. Well, I guess he isn't a better man than me and we are basically the same...Good for you AJ...get your money.
All this time I kept thinking that AJ was a better man than me because if I was the top (1 or 2) player at my position I'd want to be paid like it. Well, I guess he isn't a better man than me and we are basically the same...Good for you AJ...get your money.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
I think he has earned it in fact exceeded it. I'm sure they can find a way to not ruin our cap space. Andre Johnson is an elite player.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Holy over reaction batman. How do you know this is some calculated opportunity for success thing rather than a realization he didn't get as much as he should/could last time and seeing the contracts of guys like Fitzgerald who the next year signed a contract averaging $10 mil per year?
Can't fine him until training camp.
He has played 3 of the years of the contract. 2007, 8 and 9.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Actually it's 8 years which makes it seem even worse!!!
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1575
I get the fact that players get guaranteed money, but that still doesn't change the fact that that a team doesn't have to honor the entire contract. Why should the player?
IMO, Andre has already earned his guaranteed money.
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
He is an elite player, but when will it ever be enough. If all elite players keep doing this everything goes up and in the end the fans get screwed. Thats why why pay thousands in season tickets, commercials cost more and in return consumer goods cost more, when will it end.
eriadoc
Texan-American
1.) For anyone commenting about "honoring the contract" and "living up to your word", perhaps you should hold the owners to the same standard. The fact is, the players are the only ones expected to live up to any contracts. If a team wants to cut a player, the only real money they're on the hook for is the signing bonus. And that is why you see players going after signing bonuses.
2.) Business is about leverage, not principles: AJ doesn't really have much leverage here, IMO.
This is a case of a multi-millionaire jockeying to get more money from a multi-billionaire. I take no sides because I see how both of them are being greedy.
2.) Business is about leverage, not principles: AJ doesn't really have much leverage here, IMO.
This is a case of a multi-millionaire jockeying to get more money from a multi-billionaire. I take no sides because I see how both of them are being greedy.
Fox
Rookie
This sounds like a good compromise to me. If he wants his pay to continue to reflect his play, which is the best of any WR in the NFL, then give him performance incentives that will reward him for continuing to get it done. He's the only bonafide elite player on our roster and he's stuck with this franchise with little pouting through some tough times, I have no problem with him requesting compensation that more accurately reflects his performance.
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
I do agree owners should have the same standard and live up to there word as well.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
That is not quite true. Not everyone is greedy, but greed is a form of selfishness and almost everyone is selfish these days....one way or another.
You do have to consider also that these guys are thinking about sending 40 relatives to Harvard and starting a charity and....well, paying for drugs and parties and keeping their wife and their mistresses happy. Oh, and buying their daughter a mozaratti, a prince, a college, and her own freaking hospital to work at....maybe on her own protected little island with a fully paid military unit for defense....with a few battleships nearby, one carrier full of F-whatevers.............and a nuclear sub with you-know-what. No, I don't think some young ladies are spoiled. No, not me. Pft.
Anyway, tha man gotta lotta *(&^ to pay for.
Edit: No drugs were given to AJ during this post. Especially not performance enhancing ones. I took a few....but AJ, he hangs out with Cushing AND THEY'RE BOTH INNOCENT AND SHOULD PLAY EVERY GAME THIS YEAR.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
From a team's perspective, sometimes the contract issues can 'balance' themselves out. You'll always have players that outperform their contract and some that underperform. That's just part of the game - you waste a lot of money on players that don't do jack or that get injured, while you reap the benifits with some players that do really well. But you really do want the players that have earned their money to get paid.
This is why I think building through the draft is so important. Barring a top 10 draft pick, rookies make very little in relation to veterans and it's tougher for them to renegotiate their rookie contracts unless they become studs like Revis or Willis. So you can capitalize on getting quality play from young players on the cheap while being able to pay your proven veteran players like Andre Johnson.
This is why I think building through the draft is so important. Barring a top 10 draft pick, rookies make very little in relation to veterans and it's tougher for them to renegotiate their rookie contracts unless they become studs like Revis or Willis. So you can capitalize on getting quality play from young players on the cheap while being able to pay your proven veteran players like Andre Johnson.
Then there shouldn't be guaranteed money and huge signing bonuses.
The CBA is a give some get some deal.
The owners wanted the ability to cut players who werent performing up to their contract level. The players wanted the ability to have guaranteed salaries.
They came up with the system we have now.
Its balanced.
When an owner signs a guy for 8 years and 60 million, and the guy plays like Betty White, he should have to continue to pay him for the full term of ht econtract? No, thats what guaranteed money is for.
When an owners signs a guy for 8 years and 60 million and he outperforms his contract, should he have to pay him for the full term? Yes, or they can restructure. This holding out business is just annoying
sometexansfan
Blue Bomber
Yeah he got paid two years ago. And what has he done in those two years? Posted back to back 1500+ yard seasons, only the second WR ever to do that. Now if he were making let's say Top 5 money for his position right now, I'd understand, but I believe somebody posted that he's the 8th(?) highest paid WR in the league as of now. If I was the best at my job and got paid the 8th highest, I know I'd probably want more.
Then you shouldn't have signed an 8 year deal.
Its like OMT said. You dont buy an 8 year CD if you think rates are going to increase.
He wanted the long term deal, he got it, now he should play for at least half of it.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
imatexan
All Pro
Hardly recognize their faces!?
Come on, I bet every single person on this board would recognize AJ if we saw him in person and if you didn't not sure how much of a Texans FANatic you would be.
Señor Stan
El Guapo
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I have the same feeling, but on the other hand he was regarded as one of the top WRs in the league back then. The rich contract he signed with the Texans, I believe had a lot to do with the expectation that he would continue performing as a top WR. Obviously those back to back years were great, but it almost looks like "pay me to do this... then when I do it you should pay me more because I did it."
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
It's all a cluster*uck and thats why we probaly wont have football in 2011!
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it
Example: Who is this?
Hint: He is a starter
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Well, in McNair's defense, he's not a multi-billionaire.
lol
indiantexan
Waterboy
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it
Example: Who is this?
Hint: He is a starter
Diles lol
What if I confuse him for 50 cent or vice versa :p
This doesn't really have much to do with AJ, but contracts in general...I figured I'd post it here rather than start a new thread...
Does anybody know why some players have such ridiculous incentives in their contracts?
For instance, I think in Mike Briesel's contract he gets some kind of bonus if he blocks 8 kicks...
What the hell is that about, and are these contracts really what they seem?
Does anybody know why some players have such ridiculous incentives in their contracts?
For instance, I think in Mike Briesel's contract he gets some kind of bonus if he blocks 8 kicks...
What the hell is that about, and are these contracts really what they seem?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it
Example: Who is this?
Hint: He is a starter
umm, Zach Diles.
In total salary for 2009, AJ was the 16th highest paid WR in the league.
Yeah, I would want to talk about a new deal also...
ha, right. But I'd be willing to bet you that most texans fans would not recognize the majority of our team.
The elite top guys, they are easy. You see them on ads, on the website, etc. But the rest of the guys, even the starters, you rarely see without their helmets on.
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
AJ yes, but the rest of them? I could pick out probably 10 or so players by faces alone. The rest? doubt it
Example: Who is this?
Hint: He is a starter
That's easy, Eric Winston!
Exactly right. Players and owners understand this system when they sign - it's a major reason for the huge signing bonuses. If players could terminate a contract at any time (in fact, they can by retiring - they just can't play for another team in the mean time), then you would see signing bonuses rapidly dwindle. Both sides take a risk - the owners have the chance that the player won't play to the level to earn that large signing bonus, and the players take the risk that they're giving up more potential future earnings if they do particularly well.
Back to this situation, I don't think we have any word from Andre or his agent about why he's not there. I will wait just a bit before coming down too hard on him. So far, except for the one comment last year by his uncle/agent that Andre himself quickly contradicted, Andre has handled things remarkably smoothly, so I'd like to give him some benefit of the doubt here.
If Andre really does skip something like the (non-voluntary) minicamp or training camp, then I will be upset, as he's not living up to his contract. There are some cases where I have more sympathy for a player - e.g. someone signs a longer contract to be a role player and turns into a dominant starter; I can kind of understand them holding out when we're talking many times their existing salary. But, for the most part, players should live up to their commitments. In this case, Andre is already being paid as "a" top receiver in the NFL, though not "the" top receiver (which he arguably is). As in the Mr. Deed's film, I don't think he'd be returning his money if he ends up not performing well, though.
As a further note the OTAs are supposed to be "voluntary." I have a general point of annoyance about all sorts of things in life that are "voluntary" but in practice have severe negative consequences if you don't follow them (ummm... except for the things where I am the one who is wanting the "voluntary" participation....). I know there was a Cowboy's player a few years ago made fun of for his "What do voluntary mean?" line, but I actually have some sympathy to the point of view. If teams want to make these things mandatory, they should negotiate to make them that way, either through individual contracts or through the CBA.
Andre renegotiated his original contract before it was up, and I think that was the plan the day he signed it (and Texans fans jumped for joy). It appears he is attempting to repeat that process.
I wouldn't be surprised that words such as "prove you're worth more and let's talk again in a couple of years" are exchanged during negotiations. Maybe not.
I wouldn't be surprised that words such as "prove you're worth more and let's talk again in a couple of years" are exchanged during negotiations. Maybe not.
Ive been following this team since its inception, and if I saw that guy on the street, I wouldn't look twice. No way would I recognize him as one of our guys
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I don't care what ranking he falls in. I like the approach that McNair took last offseason. "You'll get paid when you make the playoffs". I love Andre Johnson, but until this team actually takes the next step and we reach the postseason...I don't want to hear anyone bitching about a new contract.
Kulluminatii
Veteran
Wow, did not expect something like this from AJ. Hmm, I wonder if Al would take this opportunity to offer Nnamdi + a pick for AJ...oh god, AJ in silver & black!
Seriously though, this is really surprising. AJ is one of the last people I'd expect to do this. He does deserve it though, so hopefully this is taken care of quickly.
Anywho, back to dreaming about AJ...as a Raider
.
*prepares for the massive amount of neg rep coming my way*
Seriously though, this is really surprising. AJ is one of the last people I'd expect to do this. He does deserve it though, so hopefully this is taken care of quickly.
Anywho, back to dreaming about AJ...as a Raider
.*prepares for the massive amount of neg rep coming my way*