Accountability

[Lucky]

TJ has started 7 games in the nfl, played 7.5 and has gone 4 td 6 ints
Matt the last 12 starts is 13 tds 14 ints. To help you that would put TJ less than 7 and over 10 ints

That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?

Schaub has been in the top 20% of the NFL in almost every passing category and in win-loss percentage until this year.

Well, we are living in "this year". And it was Schaub's performance (or lack of) at the end of 2012 and the ensuing playoffs that led to concerns going into this season. Concerns that have been founded. I won't argue that the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 wasn't a solid (though not spectacular) NFL QB. That's not the Matt Schaub we see today. Not by a long shot.

 

[dalemurphy]

That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?

Well, we are living in "this year". And it was Schaub's performance (or lack of) at the end of 2012 and the ensuing playoffs that led to concerns going into this season. Concerns that have been founded. I won't argue that the Matt Schaub of 2009-2011 wasn't a solid (though not spectacular) NFL QB. That's not the Matt Schaub we see today. Not by a long shot.

1. That is exactly what NY Giant fans are saying about Eli Manning right now.

2. I agree. The issue, again, is that the coaching staff still believe it is more likely that Schaub can return to that form than they believe Yates or Keenum can perform at that level this year. That's all. No need to read more into it than that.

I have no problem with criticizing the Schaub re-signing coming of the 2011 injury. If he can't turn it around, it is that decision that will turn out to be very costly. Can't it simply be a mistake, though, instead of some character defect? Just because the Texan organization reaches different conclusions about players and situations than you do does not mean they aren't committed to winning- it means they see things differently.

 

[dalemurphy]

Wrong.. Yates has started much less games than Schaub, but he hasn't accomplished much less.

That is not a credible statement.

How many of the great coaches and GMs in the NFL would agree with your assertion?

Hate to do it, but according to the formula you are using, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler accomplished more than Dan Marino... ridiculous, I know, but no more so than your assertion comparing Yates and Schaub.

 

[thunderkyss]

That's if Yates were to play at the exact level he did has a rookie in a handcuffed gameplan. You're making an assumption that would be the case 2 years later. You don't believe Kubiak could coach up Yates to be a better QB over two additional years?

Tj already looks better throwing to Jean & Martin. Then we've got DeAndre instead of KDub.

Our Receivers that year was Andre, Walter, Jacoby, Derrick Mason, & Bryant Johnson

This year he'll have Andre, Hopkins, Martin, Posey, Jean... they've got a lot to prove themselves, but I like their ceiling better than the other group.

 

[Carr Bombed]

That is not a credible statement.

How many of the great coaches and GMs in the NFL would agree with your assertion?

Hate to do it, but according to the formula you are using, Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler accomplished more than Dan Marino... ridiculous, I know, but no more so than your assertion comparing Yates and Schaub.

That is a credible statement (since I was talking about postseason success) as Schaub has only been to the playoffs once.. I repeat one time. So try again with your ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler to Dan Marino (who had his Dolphins competing year in and year out) analogy that doesn't fit here. Not to mention Schaub's name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Marino.

You are trying to put Schaub up on this pedestal like he's accomplished so much in this league and shouldn't be in the position to be pushed and that take is flat out ridiculous. He put up good stats for a few years, couldn't stay healthy other years, and is clearly CLEARLY NOT THE SAME QB that he was just a couple of seasons ago. Anybody who can plug in a tape from '09 can see that.

He's been starting here for 7 seasons... one playoff win vs. the Bengals and now when he throws a football it looks like it's boomerang, because lately it's been coming right back towards him..Yeah it's ridiculous to think that Schaub should be pushed for his job and possibly put on the bench. Schaub hasn't accomplished nearly enough of what you Apparently think he has, where he can keep making these mistakes and not be held accountable.

P.S.

I'm so glad you brought up Trent Dilfer, because that's now where I put this current Matt Schaub.. in the Trent Dilfer and Rob Johnson class, except he's making mistakes. He's now in the "game manager" class of QBs, but he keeps making costly mistakes.

I used to stick up with Schaub and even didn't mind the weak arm, because he was at least accurate with the football and had decent ball placement, that's no longer the case. You can't have a weak arm and also be inaccurate. Now when Schaub throws the ball you don't know where the hell it's going to go.. over the receiver, behind the receiver. His receivers have to make acrobatic catches on balls that they should be getting YAC yards on.

Your problem is you're defending the old Matt Schaub with failing to acknowledge the player he is now and how far his skills have diminished. I don't really give a rats ass what Schaub did 2, 3, or 4 years ago.. this current Schaub is not going to lead this team anywhere and is REPLACEABLE, yes even to QBs who don't have the lengthy "resume".

 

[dalemurphy]

That is a credible statement (since I was talking about postseason success) as Schaub has only been to the playoffs once.. I repeat one time. So try again with your ridiculous Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler to Dan Marino (who had his Dolphins competing year in and year out) analogy that doesn't fit here. Not to mention Schaub's name should never be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Marino.

You are trying to put Schaub up on this pedestal like he's accomplished so much in this league and shouldn't be in the position to be pushed and that take is flat out ridiculous. He put up good stats for a few years, couldn't stay healthy other years, and is clearly CLEARLY NOT THE SAME QB that he was just a couple of seasons ago. Anybody who can plug in a tape from '09 can see that.

He's been starting here for 7 seasons... one playoff win vs. the Bengals and now when he throws a football it looks like it's boomerang, because lately it's been coming right back towards him..Yeah it's ridiculous to think that Schaub should be pushed for his job and possibly put on the bench. Schaub hasn't accomplished nearly enough of what you Apparently think he has, where he can keep making these mistakes and not be held accountable.

P.S.

I'm so glad you brought up Trent Dilfer, because that's now where I put this current Matt Schaub.. in the Trent Dilfer and Rob Johnson class, except he's making mistakes. He's now in the "game manager" class of QBs, but he keeps making costly mistakes.

I used to stick up with Schaub and even didn't mind the weak arm, because he was at least accurate with the football and had decent ball placement, that's no longer the case. You can't have a weak arm and also be inaccurate. Now when Schaub throws the ball you don't know where the hell it's going to go.. over the receiver, behind the receiver. His receivers have to make acrobatic catches on balls that they should be getting YAC yards on.

Your problem is you're defending the old Matt Schaub with failing to acknowledge the player he is now and how far his skills have diminished. I don't really give a rats ass what Schaub did 2, 3, or 4 years ago.. this current Schaub is not going to lead this team anywhere and is REPLACEABLE, yes even to QBs who don't have the lengthy "resume".

Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.

 

[thunderkyss]

Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.

It's not really worth arguing. It is what it is. It is up to Schaub to prove Gary's trust is not misplaced.

 

[Rey]

Schaub's not a good qb at this point. If you've want him to be the qb of this team from now till whenever, just understand we're playing with the odds stacked against is.

He's a qb that got fat off a good system, with very little playmaking ability and really nothing in regards to his game to write home about.

Whether you think it's keenum, Yates or a rookie....we need to be actively searching for a replacement. And that's pretty much where I salt and at this point. We need to be actively exploring an exit plan. He's a burden.

 

[Lucky]

1. That is exactly what NY Giant fans are saying about Eli Manning right now.

2. I agree. The issue, again, is that the coaching staff still believe it is more likely that Schaub can return to that form than they believe Yates or Keenum can perform at that level this year. That's all. No need to read more into it than that.

First, what's with the tired Eli Manning comparisons I see everywhere? Eli doesn't play for the Texans. And whatever the Giants do or don't do concerning their struggles, doesn't mean the Texans are obligated to follow.

Second, maybe Kubiak does think Schaub can return to form. Or maybe he's paralyzed by the fear of change. Or maybe he just thinks his alternatives suck. That's not what this thread is about. It's about accountability. And if Schaub is being judged on what he accomplished in the past and not by his present performance, then he is not being held accountable. Kubiak's "I can promise you there is accountability" rings hollow.

 

[infantrycak]

First, what's with the tired Eli Manning comparisons I see everywhere? Eli doesn't play for the Texans. And whatever the Giants do or don't do concerning their struggles, doesn't mean the Texans are obligated to follow.

That may be my fault. I was not comparing the two on play merit or careers. I was only examining the assertion that if someone was playing like this in NY the media would be ripping them apart and it would force the team to be more accountable. Given what Eli and the Giants are going through it seemed like an apt test of that assertion.

And if Schaub is being judged on what he accomplished in the past and not by his present performance, then he is not being held accountable.

Fair enough but the same should then be said of Eli as well.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Fair enough but the same should then be said of Eli as well.

I'm pretty sure Eli is plastered over every back page in NY (Their media doesn't coddle their players like ours does) .. But it doesn't change the fact that he'll be starting next season and will keep his job.

And I don't think the same thing should be said about Eli, the situations aren't even comparable. Matt Schaub has offensive weapons hanging out the ying yang around him.. Eli doesn't, Matt Schaub has a two starting caliber RBs toting the rock for him, Eli doesn't even have a starting caliber RB, Matt Schaub has a respectable defense that can keep the team in games... Eli is playing with possibly the worst defense in the NFL.

If Eli carries this play into next season then I'll agree with you, but this season he's far from the main reason why that team is losing and two SB victories will by you time to right the ship.. time that Schaub doesn't or shouldn't have.

 

[dalemurphy]

I'm pretty sure Eli is plastered over every back page in NY (Their media doesn't coddle their players like ours does) .. But it doesn't change the fact that he'll be starting next season and will keep his job.

And I don't think the same thing should be said about Eli, the situations aren't even comparable. Matt Schaub has offensive weapons hanging out the ying yang around him.. Eli doesn't, Matt Schaub has a two starting caliber RBs toting the rock for him, Eli doesn't even have a starting caliber RB, Matt Schaub has a respectable defense that can keep the team in games... Eli is playing with possibly the worst defense in the NFL.

If Eli carries this play in to next season then I'll agree with you, but this season he's far from the main reason why that team is losing and two SB victories will by you time to right the ship.. time that Schaub doesn't or shouldn't have.

Schaub has led his team to two come from behind wins this year- throwing the ball in difficult situations... Eli has yet to win a game. Eli does have some weapons: Nicks, Cruz, Randle, D.Wilson. According to PFF, the Texans' pass protection is the worst rated in the NFL: #32.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Schaub has only been to the playoffs once?

So, you sort of ignore what he did in 2011 (7-1) and give credit for making those playoffs to Yates (3-4)... Umm, okay.

NFL rosters have 53 players. Believe me, Schaub played well enough to be in the playoffs in 2008, 2009, and 2010... unfortunately, the team around him wasn't good. Blaming Schaub for disappointment in 2009 or 10 is pretty silly.

I'm not discounting what he did to help us get to the playoffs in '11, but the fact remains he only has one playoff appearance on this magical "resume" and the defense is what led that team in '11. Fact remains, you can't play in the playoffs when you're on crutches.

Also there's been plenty of QBs who were able to lift crappy defenses to a playoff appearance, That's just another excuse. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees routinely played on teams with defensive woes over the years, yet they still find a way to get to the playoffs. Andrew Luck joined a team that only won 2 games the previous year and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. So, yes it's a 53 man roster (like nobody here didn't know that), but a top QB can hide a lot of warts and a QB is NOT just another guy on a 53 man roster.

A top QB can elevate the entire team and Schaub simply can't do that, because he isn't able to hide the warts. He can't make plays off schedule to make up for mistakes and everything has to go exactly perfect around him in order for him to have success. The line has to make all their blocks, defense has to play up to par, receivers have to make great catches on what is now poorly thrown passes, and we now need a consistent running game.



That's all you have to hang your hat on, stats.. Nobody cares about stats when you're losing and while Schaub was putting up his stats during those seasons, most the time we still sucked in the redzone or had a costly turnover.. (Cardinals game comes to mind) and at the end of the day still always came up short. But, those seasons no longer even come into play, because yet again all you're doing is defending the old Schaub and that guy no longer plays here. That guy rode off on his electric scooter 2 seasons ago. You need to actually start evaluating the guy who's now playing under center and the guy who is now playing under center isn't very good and is replaceable.

 

[cstyle42]

Good ol boy systems I tell you. Another thing that doesn't surprise me is Mercilus 4.5 sacks is being overlooked as he has more than Watt's 3.5.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Good ol boy systems I tell you. Another thing that doesn't surprise me is Mercilus 4.5 sacks is being overlooked as he has more than Watt's 3.5.

You mean overlooked by fans, or the coaches??

 

[dalemurphy]

I'm not discounting what he did to help us get to the playoffs in '11, but the fact remains he only has one playoff appearance on this magical "resume" and the defense is what led that team in '11. Fact remains, you can't play in the playoffs when you're on crutches.

Also there's been plenty of QBs who were able to lift crappy defenses to a playoff appearance, That's just another excuse. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees routinely played on teams with defensive woes over the years, yet they still find a way to get to the playoffs. Andrew Luck joined a team that only won 2 games the previous year and led them to the playoffs as a rookie. So, yes it's a 53 man roster (like nobody here didn't know that), but a top QB can hide a lot of warts and a QB is NOT just another guy on a 53 man roster.

A top QB can elevate the entire team and Schaub simply can't do that, because he isn't able to hide the warts. He can't make plays off schedule to make up for mistakes and everything has to go exactly perfect around him in order for him to have success. The line has to make all their blocks, defense has to play up to par, receivers have to make great catches on what is now poorly thrown passes, and we now need a consistent running game.



That's all you have to hang your hat on, stats.. Nobody cares about stats when you're losing and while Schaub was putting up his stats during those seasons, most the time we still sucked in the redzone or had a costly turnover.. (Cardinals game comes to mind) and at the end of the day still always came up short. But, those seasons no longer even come into play, because yet again all you're doing is defending the old Schaub and that guy no longer plays here. That guy rode off on his electric scooter 2 seasons ago. You need to actually start evaluating the guy who's now playing under center and the guy who is now playing under center isn't very good and is replaceable.

I never argued Schaub was ever at Peyton, Brees, or Brady level. However, don't kid yourself... Schaub helped this team win a lot of games in 08 and 09 that they would've lost with a mediocre QB...

Still, the only reason I'm bringing up Schaub's history is because you have argued that he has not earned the resume to start over Yates... That is your argument, not mine.

I am very concerned about Schaub's play. It was awful in December and January last season... I thought he looked very good (despite some mistakes) the first couple games... I was extremely encouraged. However, the last six quarters of football have me worried about his arm strength, not to mention his mental and emotional health and the team's confidence in him. I can see this season falling apart if he does not get it together or if Kubiak stays with him too long.

All I am defending (in this thread entitled "Accountability") is the belief that Kubiak's decision to play Schaub this week is based on his desire and intention for this year's team to be successful. That's it. I'm not saying he is right. I'm saying his motives are, of course, in the right place... I think his decision is a reasonable conclusion given his current options, and I certainly hope it works out.

 

[Rey]

Schaub IS mediocre. He's not some borderline stud.

He's chad Pennington in a really good system.

 

[Lucky]

Schaub IS mediocre. He's not some borderline stud.

He's chad Pennington in a really good system.

Mediocre is ordinary, average. Schaub is no longer average. I would take mediocre Matt Schaub right now.

 

[steelbtexan]

Mediocre is ordinary, average. Schaub is no longer average. I would take mediocre Matt Schaub right now.

Me too

I dont care about what Eli or any other QB's have/are doing.

I do care that I'm going to be at Reliant tomorrow and Schaub hopefully will not be a pick 6 machine. Watching Schaub crap the bed this yr is disgusting.

 

[YeaLikeRightNow]

I honestly think it's a money thing. Imagine paying your lawn guy a years' salary up front. You're gonna ****** and moan about the blades of grass he missed with the mower, but you're not gonna complain because he shows up on schedule to cut your grass every week. At this point, you just wanna get your moneys-worth outta the guy until something better comes along.

It's simply a bean-counters mentality.

 

[2012Champs]

I honestly think it's a money thing. Imagine paying your lawn guy a years' salary up front. You're gonna ****** and moan about the blades of grass he missed with the mower, but you're not gonna complain because he shows up on schedule to cut your grass every week. At this point, you just wanna get your moneys-worth outta the guy until something better comes along.

It's simply a bean-counters mentality.

Well if I didn't pay my lawn guy out of my pocket and if my choice to keep him on could cost me my job it wouldn't be nearly as hard to make a move

 

[DocBar]

I honestly think it's a money thing. Imagine paying your lawn guy a years' salary up front. You're gonna ****** and moan about the blades of grass he missed with the mower, but you're not gonna complain because he shows up on schedule to cut your grass every week. At this point, you just wanna get your moneys-worth outta the guy until something better comes along.

It's simply a bean-counters mentality.

If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

 

[YeaLikeRightNow]

If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

Could not have said it better myself!

 

[TejasTom]

If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

I got a new yard guy because I payed my old yard guy to mow my lawn but he kept mowing my neighbor's lawn.

 

[Runner]

If my lawn guy is continually missing blades of grass that are so noticeable that I can spot them from my porch and all of my neighbors are mentioning it, I'm getting a new lawn guy. Especially when the lawn guy has been missing those blades of grass for the better part of a season, going back to last season. Obvious the guy can't cut grass very well.

If you and your neighbors aren't "lawn guys" yourselves, you are all unqualified to have an opinion/criticize the lawn guy professionals. They know what they are doing. Have faith.

 

[Runner]

38-13 Rams. Too bad the reality distortion field that "proves" the Texans are great and know what they are doing doesn't reach onto the field of play.

 

[thunderkyss]

I know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion. I know I'm going to be accused of trolling. But I'm dead serious. This looks like an inside job. This looks like something that has happened before. More than once.

It does not make sense that we can get the opposing team on their 1 yard line, but still give up a TD. It does not make sense the worst offenses in the league can drive 90+ yards on us. It doesn't make sense to give up 70+ yard drives for TDs again & again & again. It doesn't make sense that turnovers made by the QB result in TDs even on the opposing teams side of the field, but a RB can fumble on our 8 yard line & we hold them to a FG.

I'm convinced after watching the Rams score 17 points on our defense in the first half.

This is an inside job. We need to fire Wade.

 

[eriadoc]

I know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion. I know I'm going to be accused of trolling. But I'm dead serious. This looks like an inside job. This looks like something that has happened before. More than once.

It does not make sense that we can get the opposing team on their 1 yard line, but still give up a TD. It does not make sense the worst offenses in the league can drive 90+ yards on us. It doesn't make sense to give up 70+ yard drives for TDs again & again & again. It doesn't make sense that turnovers made by the QB result in TDs even on the opposing teams side of the field, but a RB can fumble on our 8 yard line & we hold them to a FG.

I'm convinced after watching the Rams score 17 points on our defense in the first half.

This is an inside job. We need to fire Wade.

I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one. The Texans just suck. People don't want to admit it because they see all the yardage and big names, but as a TEAM, they suck.

 

[Rey]

I know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion. I know I'm going to be accused of trolling. But I'm dead serious. This looks like an inside job. This looks like something that has happened before. More than once.

It does not make sense that we can get the opposing team on their 1 yard line, but still give up a TD. It does not make sense the worst offenses in the league can drive 90+ yards on us. It doesn't make sense to give up 70+ yard drives for TDs again & again & again. It doesn't make sense that turnovers made by the QB result in TDs even on the opposing teams side of the field, but a RB can fumble on our 8 yard line & we hold them to a FG.

I'm convinced after watching the Rams score 17 points on our defense in the first half.

This is an inside job. We need to fire Wade.

What about the years before wade was here?

Who was the saboteur then?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one. The Texans just suck. People don't want to admit it because they see all the yardage and big names, but as a TEAM, they suck.

You are what your record is .