Accountability

[infantrycak]

I doubt heads would roll if Kubiak went 2-14.

Which makes me wonder - why did Capers only get five years? He's a good guy. Knows football. Weird.

Maybe you have your own theory. I think Palmer was Capers' undoing with the way that was handled and then bringing in an antiquated friend.

 

[TexansFight]

You are confusing accountability with being reactionary and impatient. Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization... The fact that he doesn't throw his players under the bus to protect his reputation or create a scapegoat is honorable and good for the health of the team. Just because he doesn't throw a fit and bench or humiliate a player after a bad performance does not mean he is okay with it... It simply means that he believes that player remains the teams best option at the position to win.

As with all coaches, sometimes his assessment is wrong. IMO, better to error on the side of patience and trust then to quit on a guy too soon.

I will agree that Kubiak struggles to honestly assess his players. That is why Rick smiths increased power after 2010 has led to better results. Still, I don't think he should bench schaub yet. I still think MS is this teams best chance to win big this year, if he can work through whatever is going on.

No basis in reality for your hopes. Schaub's problem from a degenerative physical condition with his Lisfranc that affects everything with regard to planting of his feet which has led to his loss of velocity and accuracy on his throws. Add the mental meltdown as well and we have a QB that is DONE. He is not going to turn this around. He has been horrible since we were 11-1 and it is just getting worse.

 

[dalemurphy]

No basis in reality for your hopes. Schaub's problem from a degenerative physical condition with his Lisfranc that affects everything with regard to planting of his feet which has led to his loss of velocity and accuracy on his throws. Add the mental meltdown as well and we have a QB that is DONE. He is not going to turn this around. He has been horrible since we were 11-1 and it is just getting worse.

Perhaps. I don't have enough information to know if the foot is causing him problems this year. I do know that you are guessing that he is done. It is very possible that he turns it around. I certainly hope he does.

What is crazy is the idea that Kubiak knows he is finished but continues to play him out of loyalty. That is not true, of course! Maybe Kubiak is wrong in his assessment, but the idea that he is p,aging schaub out of loyalty to the teams detriment is crazy.

 

[dalemurphy]

That isn't true and you know it. Gary's history has been one of the worst coaches in the league at his blind loyalty to players that under perform and flat out hurt the team and ruin seasons, and yet he does it all over again with another player. Chris Brown, Kris Brown, JJ, Marciano, Smith, Schaub, Mario, Green, Walter, and etc.

Other than Marciano, I dont see a good example listed... Well, Richard smith would be a clear mistake. He should have been dumped after 2007
. Otherwise, that list is full of players the team sent packing as soon as it made sense to do so.

 

[Texecutioner]

Other than Marciano, I dont see a good example listed... Well, Richard smith would be a clear mistake. He should have been dumped after 2007
. Otherwise, that list is full of players the team sent packing as soon as it made sense to do so.

It didn't make sense to get rid of JJ before that awful 2nd contract? Yeah, he only dropped a ton more punts and kick offs and continued to fail to become a decent receiver as a #2 or a #3. We won't even go there on the Ravens game.

YOu were the worst complainer of Mario, and it wasn't that hard to see that the Texans weren't going to pay that kind of money for that kind of production. Don't even try and change that now.

Both of the Browns cost the Texans their first playoff season, and both had no business playing in games towards the latter part of the season. Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up. Kubiak's worst season of coaching in his history.

As for the rest, I'd probably be wasting my time typing because like always you will always spin Kubiak's failures as long as he is coaching here. You have proven that for years. The next guy will get the same treatment when he coaches here from you as long as he is employed here. But, to act like players on this team weren't coddled in several cases is just funny at this point.

What is the current excuse for Schaub just for chits and giggles?

 

[Runner]

Maybe you have your own theory. I think Palmer was Capers' undoing with the way that was handled and then bringing in an antiquated friend.

I thought it was the other guy that was his undoing. What was his name - Pendry? Is that the antiquated friend you are talking about?

 

[dalemurphy]

It didn't make sense to get rid of JJ before that awful 2nd contract? Yeah, he only dropped a ton more punts and kick offs and continued to fail to become a decent receiver as a #2 or a #3. We won't even go there on the Ravens game.

YOu were the worst complainer of Mario, and it wasn't that hard to see that the Texans weren't going to pay that kind of money for that kind of production. Don't even try and change that now.

Both of the Browns cost the Texans their first playoff season, and both had no business playing in games towards the latter part of the season. Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up. Kubiak's worst season of coaching in his history.

As for the rest, I'd probably be wasting my time typing because like always you will always spin Kubiak's failures as long as he is coaching here. You have proven that for years. The next guy will get the same treatment when he coaches here from you as long as he is employed here. But, to act like players on this team weren't coddled in several cases is just funny at this point.

What is the current excuse for Schaub just for chits and giggles?

You are right about my opinion of Mario... And Kubiak/smith got rid of him when it made sense to. Chris brown was cut when it made sense as well. It was a bad signing, but that is not the same as be too loyal.

No excuse for schaub a performance the past couple games, nor was his performance at the end of last year acceptable. I just agree with Kubiak that schaub turning things around is more likely than Yates jumping in and leading this team deep into the playoffs.

 

[infantrycak]

I thought it was the other guy that was his undoing. What was his name - Pendry? Is that the antiquated friend you are talking about?

That's him. He had been out of coaching for 5 years and was running a bed & breakfast or something when Capers called him. I wanted to shoot Pendry when he stuck Riley in at LT.

I also think being a defensive guru who couldn't build a D hurt him, and now he and Fangio have gone on to have success as DCs.

Kubiak's trust in Chris Brown the RB was atrocious. The guy literally did nothing positive for this team at any point and would be handed the keys to the car at the most important parts of the game to blow it all up.

I can't see the Chris Brown situation as anything other than bad luck and certainly not some sort of atrocious amount of trust. He was only with the Texans 1 year. He was the 3rd RB. The most attempts he had in a game was 11. Slaton, Moats and Foster all had more fumbles per attempt.

 

[Lucky]

Kubiak demands accountability from his players and himself... accountability is a central theme of this organization...

A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.

 

[thunderkyss]

Heads will roll if we lose one of these next two.

I think we should follow the example of the NYGiants. we've got a two game lead on them, & they're basically going through the same problem we are. Those guys won 2 Super Bowls, so surely they've got their sht together & are making sound decisions.

They never even considered changing their QB, Eli just threw 3 more INTs, one being a pick 6..... they are 0-6. If Coughlin still has a job Monday, if Eli is still the starting QB... we'll know what to expect if Schaub throws another INT this weekend.

 

[thunderkyss]

Maybe you have your own theory. I think Palmer was Capers' undoing with the way that was handled and then bringing in an antiquated friend.

Dan Reeves came in & assessed the situation with McNair. We thought he was here to tell McNair if he had a coaching issue, or a talent issue. McNair cleaned house. Chances are Reeves told him those guys weren't conducive to building a strong organization capable of winning Championship.

 

[2012Champs]

A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.

What's the drop off between your 2nd and 3rd rb?

What's the drop off between your 1st and 2nd qb?

Those are the questions the staff went over and their actions dictate what they think

 

[dalemurphy]

A theme that has no relation to the actions of the organization. Unless you are a RB that fumbles in a game. Then, you're pulled. A QB setting a NFL record for ineptitude? Nothing. No repercussions whatsoever. He's our QB. Till death do us part.

Schaub has been in the top 20% of the NFL in almost every passing category and in win-loss percentage until this year. He has had three bad games in a row... following two comeback wins that he orchestrated.. I assume you are talking about the 4 games in a row with a INT return for TD... breaking Peyton Manning's record of 3, I think.

Are you suggesting the Colts should have benched Manning when he owned that record? Do you honestly think that Schaub will be the QB all year if this continues or that he will be given the starting job next year if he doesn't turn it around?

What should the Giants do about Eli Manning?

By the way, Kubiak dumped Carr after one season with him- Carr's best statistical season. I don't get where you guys come up with these peculiar conclusions.

 

[Trail.Blazr]

What's the drop off between your 2nd and 3rd rb?

What's the drop off between your 1st and 2nd qb?

Those are the questions the staff went over and their actions dictate what they think

If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

 

[2012Champs]

If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

Its not is there a drop off. There should always be a drop off between your first and second guy or second and third. However it is the measure of the degree of the drop off impacts the team. Benching Foster isnt the worst thing in the world given Tate's ability to perform better or relatively on par with Foster. Likewise sitting Tate for a fumble and giving Foster more snaps certainly doesnt impact the game much either

I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

It is exactly the value of the position and the difference between our 1 and 2 RB or our 2 and 3rd is near zero when you compare it to the difference between our 1 and 2 Qb

What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Matt hasnt done anything great but what he has done is post 8 TDs and while the 9 ints hurt and have cost us games Yates isnt tossing 8 TDs in 5 games. In TJs 7 starts he had 4 TDs 6 Ints. For Yates the subset of data is small but not so for Matt. Matt's data would suggest that his poor performance at this point is abnormal.

Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

Are we doing Ring adjusted stats? Eli's 9 TDs 15 ints a fumble and 0-6 are better than Matt's 8 TDs 9 Ints and a 2-3 record?

It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

The point of having a backup QB is a replacement in the case of injury and usually is a signal the season is over.

 

[dalemurphy]

If true, their actions only further illustrate that they DON'T think.

I've seen them bench foster over being late to a meeting. I can recall them benching their #1 NFL pick during his rookie season. Either one of those examples suggest there to be a drop off to their replacement?

I think the drop off really lies in the value of the position. Name one other roster spot that has a greater impact on the teams success than that of QB. Compound that with what you are suggesting and we have our source of reluctance.

What I fail to understand, is if I look at it inversely and ask what is Matt Schaub doing SO great that has him seemingly untouchable? Seriously... Let's take off the homer goggles for a minute and look back at the span of his career here in Houston. Don't dive into stats... just keep it simple, for the sake of seeing the truth for what it is.... What has he done?

Example.. if this were Eli Manning, one might suggest 2 superbowls and an MVP, thus I may concede understanding the situational loyalty that is currently being offered Matt... So, what is so significant about Matt.
I see nothing...

It's blind loyalty to suggest that there's too much of a talent drop off... Not in the midst of a stretch were his team has gone 4-7 prior to the next game vs. the Rams. Shrink the scope down a bit.. Not sitting 2-3 during which he's earned the NFL title of Mr. Pick 6. Shrinking down further... Not on a 3 game slide where he has 2 tds, 6 ints and is averaging 10 pts a game(over half of which is actually attributed to the kicker). So back to the question the staff went over... What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

Yes. This is the modern NFL. A teams only real hope is tied to the health and play of its starting QB. For any legitimate shot, we need the QB to play at the level schaub was playing at in 2011 before his injury. I don't think Yates can do that this year... Hopefully, schaub can.

 

[thunderkyss]

What IS the drop off between your first and 2nd QB?

As I suggested in another thread.... Injury aside, if this situation doesn't justify the need for a backup QB, what's the point of having one? I can understand the desire to push through a rough patch with a legend.. but seriously... Keeping in mind your answer about Matt's historical significance...

Are we REALLY resigned to our best option being that we HOPE Matt can push through this and come January, be hoisting the Lombardi trophy?

Apparently so. going to be a long season.

It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.

 

[badboy]

It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.

I think Gary looked at rest of schedule and thought MS can get well physically and mentally against these teams. I sure hope it works. My question is will he have a quicker hook on Schaub?

 

[Carr Bombed]

I think we should follow the example of the NYGiants. we've got a two game lead on them, & they're basically going through the same problem we are. Those guys won 2 Super Bowls, so surely they've got their sht together & are making sound decisions.

They never even considered changing their QB, Eli just threw 3 more INTs, one being a pick 6..... they are 0-6. If Coughlin still has a job Monday, if Eli is still the starting QB... we'll know what to expect if Schaub throws another INT this weekend.

The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.

 

[dalemurphy]

The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.

If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?

 

[thunderkyss]

My question is will he have a quicker hook on Schaub?

I think if he had chose to go with Tj/Case, he would have to be patient with them & not be too quick to yank them. Schaub.. maybe not so patient, but he shouldn't yank him after one INT.

If we go three qtrs without scoring like the SF game & he throws an INT.... I'm all for it. But I think he should have been benched against Seattle. We'd be two weeks removed from where we are right now. Even if his decision was to go back to Schaub for the SF game. He should have been benched at pick 6 in the Seattle game.

If I didn't bench him during the Seattle game I'd have benched him after the first pass play of the SF game.

[IMGwidthsize=350]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/Pick6-2_zps3913ca02.png[/IMG]

 

[Carr Bombed]

It's going to be a long season from here on out, because Tennessee may be the toughest defense we face from here out. The Chiefs have a good D, the Colts has a decent D, but at the end of the day, Tennessee may have the toughest & it's not top 10ish.

So we're not going to see Schaub face anything like what he saw the last 3 weeks..... We won't see Baltimore again until the post season & there's a chance we won't see them at all. Maybe Cincinnati.

So the Matt Schaub question is going to go unanswered the rest of the season unless he wins a Super Bowl. & like many are fearing, he's going to be our starting QB next year.

Ill take the Chiefs defense over the Titans.. their secondary is going to feast on Schaub and they can generate a consistent pass rush with their front. I expect another pick 6 in that game.

 

[2012Champs]

The two situations aren't comparable at all. Eli is a 2 time SB MVP and has already proven he can lead a team to a title.. Coughlin has won 2 SBs and has proven his system/style of coaching can win titles in this league (also had the upstart Jags in the AFC Championship). Those guys get the benefit of the doubt, because they've both proven and have won at the highest level in this league multiple times.

Kubiak and Schaub haven't proved crap yet outside of being able to beat a young Bengals team and when they face the top teams/coaches they usually crap the bed..they don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that Schaub is surrounded by a lot better talent than Eli who's pressing, because he has one of the worst defenses in the league and little offensive weapons. For Christ's sake Brandon Jacobs came off the street and is starting for them.

A super bowl mvp QB down to an 0-6 starter with 15 ints and a fumble is certainly a greater fall and a middle of the pack QB 2-3 starter with 9 ints. Matt certainly has to do less work to get back to the norm

 

[thunderkyss]

Ill take the Chiefs defense over the Titans.. their secondary is going to feast on Schaub and the can generate a consistent pass rush with their front. I expect another pick 6 in that game.

& if that doesn't happen, what does that mean?

Nothing. When the game is over, & there was no pick 6, you'll be on my side saying the KC Chiefs defense wasn't that great. They look good playing Romo.... they won't look so good when it's all said & done with. I doubt they'll finish top 10.

 

[Trail.Blazr]

Matt hasnt done anything great but what he has done is post 8 TDs and while the 9 ints hurt and have cost us games Yates isnt tossing 8 TDs in 5 games. In TJs 7 starts he had 4 TDs 6 Ints. For Yates the subset of data is small but not so for Matt. Matt's data would suggest that his poor performance at this point is abnormal.

You nailed the answer.. was no need to try and outdo yourself..
Past that, I saw stats, incorrect stats at that. From which didn't address the question of what has Matt done?
This is not a comparison of TJ to Schaub Per se, but since you brought it up.. TJ actually has 5 games started(not 7), to which his numbers are very similar to Schaub's last 5 games. I think you'll find one wins by a nose. Disturbing when comparing a rookie's stats to a 10 year veteran.

And, by the way, Matt's 5 game data still remains on par with 7 games prior to that. This isn't a recent epiphany that Schaub is no longer his pre 2011 self.

Are we doing Ring adjusted stats? Eli's 9 TDs 15 ints a fumble and 0-6 are better than Matt's 8 TDs 9 Ints and a 2-3 record?

Rings aren't stats.. they are trophies, indicative of greatness. The comparison wasn't to illustrate who's the better bad player right now, but as you well understand it was to lay credence as to why Eli's accomplishments warrant a longer leash so to speak, which tie into accountability. One HAS to account for Eli's trip to disney world. What do we have to accont for Matt? That he once was a top 10 QB in many statistics back in 2011? Great! Let's jump in the ol' time machine and grab that guy! To suggest he's amongst us now is a real stretch. All thing considered, from an accountability stand point, I can only conclude that Yates and Keenum must be REAALY horrible, as the only real tangible truth we've got is right now, if Schaub remains the best option under center, it's going to be a looooong season.

 

[Trail.Blazr]

If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?

Again, what does Schaub have on his resume other than as you indicate, before injury in 2011 he was good?

Resume has little to do with it. Accountability would suggest, Schaub's past accomplishments have outlived his current entitlement.

 

[dalemurphy]

Again, what does Schaub have on his resume other than as you indicate, before injury in 2011 he was good?

Resume has little to do with it. Accountability would suggest, Schaub's past accomplishments have outlived his current entitlement.

No entitlement... Coach still believes he is best option on the roster. Agree or not, it is a reasonable position to have. Why assume the worst motives?

So many fans want to displace their disappointment with anger... How about just being disappointed for a while... Then,see what happens instead of creating a villain or villains out of the same people you are wanting to succeed.

 

[Trail.Blazr]

No entitlement... Coach still believes he is best option on the roster. Agree or not, it is a reasonable position to have. Why assume the worst motives?

So many fans want to displace their disappointment with anger... How about just being disappointed for a while... Then,see what happens instead of creating a villain or villains out of the same people you are wanting to succeed.

Well said.

what's a while?

 

[2012Champs]

You nailed the answer.. was no need to try and outdo yourself..
Past that, I saw stats, incorrect stats at that. From which didn't address the question of what has Matt done?
This is not a comparison of TJ to Schaub Per se, but since you brought it up.. TJ actually has 5 games started(not 7), to which his numbers are very similar to Schaub's last 5 games. I think you'll find one wins by a nose. Disturbing when comparing a rookie's stats to a 10 year veteran.

And, by the way, Matt's 5 game data still remains on par with 7 games prior to that. This isn't a recent epiphany that Schaub is no longer his pre 2011 self.

TJ has started 7 games in the nfl, played 7.5 and has gone 4 td 6 ints
Matt the last 12 starts is 13 tds 14 ints. To help you that would put TJ less than 7 and over 10 ints

[
Rings aren't stats.. they are trophies, indicative of greatness. The comparison wasn't to illustrate who's the better bad player right now, but as you well understand it was to lay credence as to why Eli's accomplishments warrant a longer leash so to speak, which tie into accountability. One HAS to account for Eli's trip to disney world. What do we have to accont for Matt? That he once was a top 10 QB in many statistics back in 2011? Great! Let's jump in the ol' time machine and grab that guy! To suggest he's amongst us now is a real stretch. All thing considered, from an accountability stand point, I can only conclude that Yates and Keenum must be REAALY horrible, as the only real tangible truth we've got is right now, if Schaub remains the best option under center, it's going to be a looooong season.

How much worse has Eli done than Schaub? How much extra leash does Eli get?

 

[Vinny]

Eli's line has been awful and they have a guy who was out of the NFL as their feature back right now. Not making excuses, but Eli is a risk taker and drives the ball downfield. Schaub can't make those throws and has better protection than Manning.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Eli's line has been awful and they have a guy who was out of the NFL as their feature back right now. Not making excuses, but Eli is a risk taker and drives the ball downfield. Schaub can't make those throws and has better protection than Manning.

Yeah, the Giants oline's a hot mess. Booth (think that's his name) is the only cat worth a lick

 

[deucetx]

How much worse has Eli done than Schaub? How much extra leash does Eli get?

Quite a bit because he has rings and won one of them not too long ago. Whether we like it or not that does go a long way. Not to mention their division is horrible and even at 0-6 they aren't out of it though I still think it would take a miracle. But if you win that ring it changes things and Schaub has yet to accomplish this.

Plus there is the addition of who is behind them. Schaub has Yates who has past experience on the field including playoff time and has been in the system 3 years now. Keenum is the other with two years in the system. Both had strong preseasons.

Eli has Curtis Painter who I don't think even played in '12 and isn't as familiar with the Giants system. The other is a rookie who looked like utter crap in the preseason. In fact, both of them were pretty bad. Even David Carr played better though ended up being the one cut.

So one of these two teams have a better option than the other. Secondly, you have surrounding personnel. One is rather stacked with talent and the other has a middling roster. Even on a NFL article yesterday about underachieving teams who do you think the top two were? Falcons at #1 and Texans at #2. The talent on this roster is evident. Despite folks being surprised the Giants doing so bad the fact the Texans are not playing up to par weighs heavier because it is a team expected to do more.

Now in truth, I don't get into comparing my teams to other teams. Different situations and personnel. You shouldn't expect your team to react the same way another does. But we shouldn't be sitting here trying to act like it is a black/white situation in these comparison when it obviously is not.

 

[DX-TEX]

How much worse has Eli done than Schaub? How much extra leash does Eli get?

2 Superbowls that when you look back on their respective seasons they had no right being in and he won them. Schaub can hang his hat on his Pro Bowl MVP....

 

[Carr Bombed]

A super bowl mvp QB down to an 0-6 starter with 15 ints and a fumble is certainly a greater fall and a middle of the pack QB 2-3 starter with 9 ints. Matt certainly has to do less work to get back to the norm

I think you missed the entire point of my post, My post had nothing to do with returning to norm. Point is Eli has built up capital in NY whereas Schaub has not here. That's why Eli will be able to survive his horrific season and if Schaub doesn't turn it around soon he's going to be playing out his final downs as a starting NFL QB. He also should have a easier time returning to normal since normal for him is mediocre to average QB.

 

[Carr Bombed]

& if that doesn't happen, what does that mean?

Nothing. When the game is over, & there was no pick 6, you'll be on my side saying the KC Chiefs defense wasn't that great. They look good playing Romo.... they won't look so good when it's all said & done with. I doubt they'll finish top 10.

Umm.. no, if the pick 6 doesn't happen I still won't be on your side, because the Chiefs are the better defensive team and have been for about 3 seasons running. They have probowl talent at every level in their defense and are one of the top young defenses in the NFL. They're simply better than the Titans and have more talent.

 

[Come On Breh]

Again, what does Schaub have on his resume other than as you indicate, before injury in 2011 he was good?

Resume has little to do with it. Accountability would suggest, Schaub's past accomplishments have outlived his current entitlement.

terrific post.

No entitlement... Coach still believes he is best option on the roster. Agree or not, it is a reasonable position to have. Why assume the worst motives?

So many fans want to displace their disappointment with anger... How about just being disappointed for a while... Then,see what happens instead of creating a villain or villains out of the same people you are wanting to succeed.

it is an entitlement. they just signed him to a brand spanking new contract and told off peyton manning before choosing schaub.

This is a political maneuver not to save the texans season and field the best team to win, but to field a team that doesnt make your general manager and head coach foolish for benching the guy they just gave a brand new contract to.

This is a political move to save face for rick smith and gary kubiak for giving schaub a new contract instead of peyton manning.

They made this bed and they have to sleep in it despite it having full of bed bugs and needing to be fumigated.

Your attempt to make a martyr out of matt is just plain pathetic. Nobody has a problem with schaub personally. The guy is a family man, a stand up citizen, and has never gotten in trouble in the law. He is a good guy and all of the criticism towards him are football related.

Spare us your fake indignation for the sake of protecting a quarterback not doing his job.

This is a business. People pay big money to see the texans plays. Fans have the right to show displeasure against a player holding a team back.

Its nothing personal, this is just business.

2 Superbowls that when you look back on their respective seasons they had no right being in and he won them. Schaub can hang his hat on his Pro Bowl MVP....

looooooooooooooooooooooool

 

[Double Barrel]

I have no particular insight into the inner operations of the Texans FO, so I'm not going to speculate on accountability or lack thereof as it pertains to Kubiak and his players.

However, that being said, from an outsider perspective, the fact that Joe Marciano is still here speaks volumes about a perceived lack of accountability with this franchise. What the heck does that dude have to do to get fired?? Certainly fielding the worst special teams unit in the league won't do it, which is a bizarre disconnect that you rarely see in pro sports these days.

 

[dalemurphy]

terrific post.



it is an entitlement. they just signed him to a brand spanking new contract and told off peyton manning before choosing schaub.

This is a political maneuver not to save the texans season and field the best team to win, but to field a team that doesnt make your general manager and head coach foolish for benching the guy they just gave a brand new contract to.

This is a political move to save face for rick smith and gary kubiak for giving schaub a new contract instead of peyton manning.

They made this bed and they have to sleep in it despite it having full of bed bugs and needing to be fumigated.

Your attempt to make a martyr out of matt is just plain pathetic. Nobody has a problem with schaub personally. The guy is a family man, a stand up citizen, and has never gotten in trouble in the law. He is a good guy and all of the criticism towards him are football related.

Spare us your fake indignation for the sake of protecting a quarterback not doing his job.

This is a business. People pay big money to see the texans plays. Fans have the right to show displeasure against a player holding a team back.

Its nothing personal, this is just business.




looooooooooooooooooooooool

The Peyton Manning argument is ridiculous. He had a career threatening injury that caused Indy to cut him loose. It was a high risk move. Also, the Texans would have had much difficulty fitting him into their cap and their would have been a lot of cap casualties that would have lasting effects on the roster's makeup.

Again, nobody is arguing that the Texans, nor any other team in the NFL, always make the perfect move. Simply, I am saying that the decision to play Schaub this week is not about a lack of accountability... Perhaps it is a bad decision. We will see. However, it is a decision, I am confident, with a view on the team's success this season.

 

[thunderkyss]

However, that being said, from an outsider perspective, the fact that Joe Marciano is still here speaks volumes about a perceived lack of accountability with this franchise. What the heck does that dude have to do to get fired?? Certainly fielding the worst special teams unit in the league won't do it, which is a bizarre disconnect that you rarely see in pro sports these days.

It appears to be similar to Richard Smith's last season here. They brought in Frank Bush, kept paying Richard Smith. Then after still fielding a poor defense, they fired him & promoted Frank Bush.

This year, they've brought in an assisstant to Marciano. I'm guessing if our STs doesn't improve, they'll fire him & name his assistant the ST Coach.

 

[Come On Breh]

The Peyton Manning argument is ridiculous. He had a career threatening injury that caused Indy to cut him loose. It was a high risk move. Also, the Texans would have had much difficulty fitting him into their cap and their would have been a lot of cap casualties that would have lasting effects on the roster's makeup.

Again, nobody is arguing that the Texans, nor any other team in the NFL, always make the perfect move. Simply, I am saying that the decision to play Schaub this week is not about a lack of accountability... Perhaps it is a bad decision. We will see. However, it is a decision, I am confident, with a view on the team's success this season.

another lie. we didnt even bother entertaining the thought. to say we couldnt afford him is just downright dishonest. If you were serious about getting peyton you would make the necessary roster financial moves to make it happen.

we didnt because we chose matt schaub instead.


I hate the fact that i mentioned manning because i knew that would give you the out you need to not respond to the main point of my post:

That Rick Smith and Kubiak gave schaub a brand new contract and they dont want to look fooling publicly and admit a mistake by benching a guy they just gave a new contract to. That's why he's still starting and that is the very definition of entitlement. He's entitled to start because he just signed a big new contract. Smith and Kubiak want to save face.

 

[Mr teX]

The Peyton Manning argument is ridiculous. He had a career threatening injury that caused Indy to cut him loose. It was a high risk move. Also, the Texans would have had much difficulty fitting him into their cap and their would have been a lot of cap casualties that would have lasting effects on the roster's makeup.

Again, nobody is arguing that the Texans, nor any other team in the NFL, always make the perfect move. Simply, I am saying that the decision to play Schaub this week is not about a lack of accountability... Perhaps it is a bad decision. We will see. However, it is a decision, I am confident, with a view on the team's success this season.

Too many facts for some in here to process...we lost key guys in FA without having him on the books..imagine how many we likely would've lost if we'd offerd 96 million to Manning...essentially just under 20 million a year....

Not only would it have been a HUGE risk for the texans to offer a guy coming off 4 neck surgeries that, we probably would've lost a few of the key guys we eventually were able to resign...Meyers....Arian.....Cush.....

 

[Carr Bombed]

If a players resume is so important, why on earth would anyone consider starting Yates or keenum over schaub?

Because Schaub's resume isn't accomplished at all and he's done very little to elevate himself from having his job taken from him by a entry level employee, especially if he can't consistently show up and perform at work.

Seriously though.. tell us all about "Schaub's resume".

 

[2012Champs]

another lie. we didnt even bother entertaining the thought. to say we couldnt afford him is just downright dishonest. If you were serious about getting peyton you would make the necessary roster financial moves to make it happen.

we didnt because we chose matt schaub instead.


I hate the fact that i mentioned manning because i knew that would give you the out you need to not respond to the main point of my post:

That Rick Smith and Kubiak gave schaub a brand new contract and they dont want to look fooling publicly and admit a mistake by benching a guy they just gave a new contract to. That's why he's still starting and that is the very definition of entitlement. He's entitled to start because he just signed a big new contract. Smith and Kubiak want to save face.

Im not sure you are qualified to say it is a lie, nor are you qualified to speak about any level of communication the texans had in considering Manning or to what degree getting him would have impacted the team for years to come.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Im all for finding Schaub's replacement, but Im also not going to be a revisionist historian and act like we had any realistic shot at signing Manning.. because we didn't. He didn't fit in our cap at the time and we would've had to purge this team of most of it's talent just to consider him.

 

[thunderkyss]

Im all for finding Schaub's replacement, but Im also not going to be a revisionist historian and act like we had any realistic shot at signing Manning.. because we didn't. He didn't fit in our cap at the time and we would've had to purge this team of most of it's talent just to consider him.

Not only that, but we're still Houston. It's like would you rather be the HC at USC or TAMU?

If the money is the same (& we weren't outbidding anybody) it's not too hard to find a "more attractive" offer. I think we're making strides & before long we'll be a "destination" but no way Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady are coming to Houston.

If he said he's interested, he's just fanning the bidding war he "said" he wasn't interested in.

 

[dalemurphy]

Because Schaub's resume isn't accomplished at all and he's done very little to elevate himself from having his job taken from him by a entry level employee, especially if he can't consistently show up and perform at work.

Seriously though.. tell us all about "Schaub's resume".

Tell me about Yates' resume... Are you seriously arguing that Yates and keenum have proven as much in the NFL as Schaub?... That would be intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

My point was in reference to Eli manning. Someone argued that Eli's NFL resume justifies giving him more time despite his play... My point... If an NFL résumé Carries that much weight, then how could anyone want Yates to start over schaub... Yates has done much less in the nfl.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Tell me about Yates' resume... Are you seriously arguing that Yates and keenum have proven as much in the NFL as Schaub?... That would be intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

My point was in reference to Eli manning. Someone argued that Eli's NFL resume justifies giving him more time despite his play... My point... If an NFL résumé Carries that much weight, then how could anyone want Yates to start over schaub... Yates has done much less in the nfl.

Resumes in the NFL are often about what players do when it matters.

2 Super Bowl victories >>>>>> 1 playoff win.

 

[dalemurphy]

Resumes in the NFL are often about what players do when it matters.

2 Super Bowl victories >>>>>> 1 playoff win.

and if Eli Manning was in Houston, my guess is he would get the start over Schaub.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Tell me about Yates' resume... Are you seriously arguing that Yates and keenum have proven as much in the NFL as Schaub?... That would be intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

My point was in reference to Eli manning. Someone argued that Eli's NFL resume justifies giving him more time despite his play... My point... If an NFL résumé Carries that much weight, then how could anyone want Yates to start over schaub... Yates has done much less in the nfl.

Wrong.. Yates has started much less games than Schaub, but he hasn't accomplished much less. Both players have one playoff appearance and one playoff win.

Hence why I asked you to describe "Schaub's resume". You act like he's led this team to perennial playoff appearances and winning seasons or something. I no longer just care about regular season success with this team, we should be beyond that and what I've learned from Schaub's resume is that with him at the helm we aren't going to have much postseason success.

You keep coddling Schaub and it needs to stop.. and this is coming from someone who doesn't even think Yates is the answer, however to act like a young guy (whoever that ends up being) shouldn't be pushing him, because Schaub has "accomplished more" in his 7 years of mediocrity is what is "intellectually dishonest".

More accomplished QBs are replaced by "young guys who don't have resumes" all the time. Schaub is currently playing himself out of a job regardless of what you feel of Yates or Keenum and even if he does salvage his season and holds on to the job this season.. I think it's pretty much safe to say he's already made it a certain Houston will be looking for his future replacement this offseason.

 

[Carr Bombed]

and if Eli Manning was in Houston, my guess is he would get the start over Schaub.

And if Eli Manning was in Houston, had the same short comings as Schaub, and the same exact type of career as Schaub has had in Houston, my guess is people would start to question if it was time to part ways and move on... just like they have done with Schaub.