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OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I was cringing the second he threw that pass. you could see that hit coming. He needs to buy DJ dinner for the next month or so.

This is where Watson needs to improve. The Jags blitzed the crap out of him and they had no blitz beaters. Watson had problems getting them into the right play call for those blitzes.
The Jags were blitzing at will and it seemed like with every blitz one of the rushers was in the backfield untouched. I don't think Watson calling out the protection or for that matter, anyone calling out the protection would've changed the fact that no one upfront could pick up someone who came through untouched......basically ignored. This is coaching and scheme at its worse.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Oline play and blitzes are why we are suppose to pass to tight ends.As my drill instructors said "light 'em up if you've got them". I'm not blaming #4 but...
Maybe now that David is out after Watson threw him into kill zone we can pass more. Go pass crazy Dashaun!
We targeted the TEs 8 times; there might have been another one or two instances, but Watson had to take off running.
That's quite a bit really, 8 targets.
The Steelers hardly get their TE involved.
I think, in the AFC South, only one team targets the TEs more; I forgot to note down what I looked at last night (was too sleepy).
What with the injury situation to Akins this year, I don' think it's a concern.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The Jags were blitzing at will and it seemed like with every blitz one of the rushers was in the backfield untouched. I don't think Watson calling out the protection or for that matter, anyone calling out the protection would've changed the fact that no one upfront could pick up someone who came through untouched......basically ignored. This is coaching and scheme at its worse.
Devlin needs to go.
And if the new HC don't think some of these linemen can be long-term solution, especially regarding their salaries, at least 3 of them should be let go.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Oline play and blitzes are why we are suppose to pass to tight ends.As my drill instructors said "light 'em up if you've got them". I'm not blaming #4 but...
Maybe now that David is out after Watson threw him into kill zone we can pass more. Go pass crazy Dashaun!
Oops, I take it back;
Targets by team:

Texans 45
Jax 48
Titans 76
Colts 64

I guess what I meant to say was that @8 target (in the last game), that would prorate to 64 in 8 games.
And in that case, only the Titans look to their TE more.
 

Earl34

All Pro
The Jags were blitzing at will and it seemed like with every blitz one of the rushers was in the backfield untouched. I don't think Watson calling out the protection or for that matter, anyone calling out the protection would've changed the fact that no one upfront could pick up someone who came through untouched......basically ignored. This is coaching and scheme at its worse.
To your point.

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
so I asked you...




I don’t rememberseeing your answer in your reply.
I've said many times he doesn't process fast enough. It was one of the negatives in his scouting report and this really hasn't changed.
so I asked you...




I don’t rememberseeing your answer in your reply.
Main reasons are that he needs to process faster and learn to step up in the pocket instead of scrambling around behind the LOS looking for the big playost of the time.

Does this sufficiently answer your question?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I've said many times he doesn't process fast enough. It was one of the negatives in his scouting report and this really hasn't changed.


Main reasons are that he needs to process faster and learn to step up in the pocket instead of scrambling around behind the LOS looking for the big playost of the time.

Does this sufficiently answer your question?
This game after being viewed would indicate that the front of the pocket was full of defenders....left and right was not available. Any other viable direction available outside launching +-80% of his passes out of bounds to avoid a sack or ill-advised throw. This is what becomes of ANY QB trying to run an offense behind a shite-show of an OL. Again, scope the entire field for an analysis before zero’ing into one player on the field. I would go as far to say that Sunday’s victory could be contributed to Watson over every other player on the field.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I've said many times he doesn't process fast enough. It was one of the negatives in his scouting report and this really hasn't changed.


Main reasons are that he needs to process faster and learn to step up in the pocket instead of scrambling around behind the LOS looking for the big playost of the time.

Does this sufficiently answer your question?
LOL.
You're getting funnier by the minute.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
This game after being viewed would indicate that the front of the pocket was full of defenders....left and right was not available. Any other viable direction available outside launching +-80% of his passes out of bounds to avoid a sack or ill-advised throw. This is what becomes of ANY QB trying to run an offense behind a shite-show of an OL. Again, scope the entire field for an analysis before zero’ing into one player on the field. I would go as far to say that Sunday’s victory could be contributed to Watson over every other player on the field.

I have come to the realization that that dude is 1000% accurate with his stance on Watson. No matter what you and I say. No matter what evidence we post on here. We’re completely wrong and off base with our opinion. It is best to be overly critical to only one player verse actually breaking down the entire issue.
For example: the Jaguars was in a full out blitz several times in that game. And some actually brought up Watson not seeing it pre snap. Man some times the defensive were coming in unblocked or they were pushing our offensive linemen into Watson lap. How in the world does any think he’s gonna make a play there.

These teams have scouted the Texans offensive woes long enough to know we struggle with stunts, delayed blitz and basic 3-4 man rushes. They’re not just scouting Watson’s flaws.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
And no Watson does not look for the big plays all the times. Sunday’s game he took what the defense gave him.

It has been noted on here that Watson is up there in the top 5 in the dink and donk plays. Meaning dumping it off.

But hey you’re 1000 % accurate about Watson only looking for the home run plays
 

Earl34

All Pro
And no Watson does not look for the big plays all the times. Sunday’s game he took what the defense gave him.

It has been noted on here that Watson is up there in the top 5 in the dink and donk plays. Meaning dumping it off.

But hey you’re 1000 % accurate about Watson only looking for the home run plays
To determine accuracy. Are you multiplying that 1000% by the number of posts (0) he posted with a link or video to prove his point?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Does this sufficiently answer your question?
No.

The question was

But, what are the “reasons” he should have?
I know he's been in the league 4 years. Is that the only basis for your claim that he should have gotten better? If it is, that's fine. I'm just asking trying to understand your perspective.

But if you go back to where I originally asked the question I asked, do you think his QB coaches did a good job teaching him? Do you think He had a good OC to teach him? Do you think his OL has improved to provide the protection he needs? Do you believe the run game takes enough off his plate that he can improve his game? Do you think none of these matter & he should be better now, regardless?
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
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At the 1:13 mark, Watson gets pressure from the right, steps up in the pocket and completes a great throw to Cooks on the sideline.
Then go to the 2:35 mark and watch that play. He gets really quick pressure but Cobb is breaking open on a quick slant, blitz beater. But he doesn't throw it and gets sacked. Hard to tell but to me it looks like he could have hit Cobb on that quick slant. Had he, Cobb may still be running.

One good, one not so good.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
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" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

At the 1:13 mark, Watson gets pressure from the right, steps up in the pocket and completes a great throw to Cooks on the sideline.
Then go to the 2:35 mark and watch that play. He gets really quick pressure but Cobb is breaking open on a quick slant, blitz beater. But he doesn't throw it and gets sacked. Hard to tell but to me it looks like he could have hit Cobb on that quick slant. Had he, Cobb may still be running.

One good, one not so good.
If you can watch it on YouTube at HD, and slow it down to .25 speed, you can see the receiver on a delayed 5yd in route.
There was nowhere for Watson to step up.
The pressure came so quickly, even before the receiver get into his stem.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No.

The question was



I know he's been in the league 4 years. Is that the only basis for your claim that he should have gotten better? If it is, that's fine. I'm just asking trying to understand your perspective.

But if you go back to where I originally asked the question I asked, do you think his QB coaches did a good job teaching him? Do you think He had a good OC to teach him? Do you think his OL has improved to provide the protection he needs? Do you believe the run game takes enough off his plate that he can improve his game? Do you think none of these matter & he should be better now, regardless?
Those things matter, but the things DW4 can control he hasn't improved in and it's been 4 yrs. Quicker processing. Pocket awareness, getting rid of the ball etc...
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Those things matter, but the things DW4 can control he hasn't improved in and it's been 4 yrs. Quicker processing. Pocket awareness, getting rid of the ball etc...
Some of these have some basis of fact......but that shoe fits every NFL QB when their OL and running game have successfully sunk to shite status in a particular game. Texans have been slowly sinking in shite status since before Watson's arrival.....like 18 years.

I think a very fair thing to do, hold off on the constant negativity until Watson has been given some things.....like an OL, running game, and solid offensive coaches. Giving him these much needed things on offense may go a long way in improving the weaknesses you listed. Until we have something to measure against, there isn't a person on this board who has a clue as to how this would play out. All I know.....I want to see what the difference could be.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That's why I said, it's tough to tell. But if he had read blitz, if Cobb read blitz, that's an easy throw and catch. If gramma had balls, she'd my grampa.
Are we talking about the same play here?
1st and 10 with about 10 seconds to go in the first.
It was just a 4-man pass rush with the MLB staying in the middle to spy on Watson.
He didn't come in until he saw Watson getting ready to scamper up the middle.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Some of these have some basis of fact......but that shoe fits every NFL QB when their OL and running game have successfully sunk to shite status in a particular game. Texans have been slowly sinking in shite status since before Watson's arrival.....like 18 years.

I think a very fair thing to do, hold off on the constant negativity until Watson has been given some things.....like an OL, running game, and solid offensive coaches. Giving him these much needed things on offense may go a long way in improving the weaknesses you listed. Until we have something to measure against, there isn't a person on this board who has a clue as to how this would play out. All I know.....I want to see what the difference could be.

On the OL .... They've spent a boat load of assets on that line. There's talent there.

Tunsil's "The Best Pass Blocking LT In The League" .... supposedly (statistically he's damn good) at a cost of 2 #1 picks and a #2 to go with an average cap hit of $22m over 3 years.
Doesn't really appear he moves the needle .... that trade looks worse every day.

Tytus Howard First round pick and has been pretty solid.

Martin 2nd round pick (he's ass - can we cut this guy please?!).

Scharping 2nd round pick.

Fulton's been solid more often than not - his suck comes from being next to Martin.

Kelemete .... he runs hot an cold.

Point is , they have put a whole lot of assets towards protecting Watson ....
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
On the OL .... They've spent a boat load of assets on that line. There's talent there.

Tunsil's "The Best Pass Blocking LT In The League" .... supposedly (statistically he's damn good) at a cost of 2 #1 picks and a #2 to go with an average cap hit of $22m over 3 years.
Doesn't really appear he moves the needle .... that trade looks worse every day.

Tytus Howard First round pick and has been pretty solid.

Martin 2nd round pick (he's ass - can we cut this guy please?!).

Scharping 2nd round pick.

Fulton's been solid more often than not - his suck comes from being next to Martin.

Kelemete .... he runs hot an cold.

Point is , they have put a whole lot of assets towards protecting Watson ....
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202009100kan.htm
Go to Advanced Defense.
You will see Hurries, QB Knock Down, Sacks = Total Pressures for each defensive player.
JJ Watt, for example, was credited for 2 QB KD = 2 Total Pressures
Reid with 1 Hurry, and Martin with 1 sack.
That's a total of 4 Pressures by the Texans defense.

The Chiefs tallied 19 Pressures.

If you call that "Asset", you're being way too generous.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
On the OL .... They've spent a boat load of assets on that line. There's talent there.

Tunsil's "The Best Pass Blocking LT In The League" .... supposedly (statistically he's damn good) at a cost of 2 #1 picks and a #2 to go with an average cap hit of $22m over 3 years.
Doesn't really appear he moves the needle .... that trade looks worse every day.

Tytus Howard First round pick and has been pretty solid.

Martin 2nd round pick (he's ass - can we cut this guy please?!).

Scharping 2nd round pick.

Fulton's been solid more often than not - his suck comes from being next to Martin.

Kelemete .... he runs hot an cold.

Point is , they have put a whole lot of assets towards protecting Watson ....
They sound more like liabilities than assets. I' m not disagreeing with your evaluation. I'm still looking at Devlin...
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202009100kan.htm
Go to Advanced Defense.
You will see Hurries, QB Knock Down, Sacks = Total Pressures for each defensive player.
JJ Watt, for example, was credited for 2 QB KD = 2 Total Pressures
Reid with 1 Hurry, and Martin with 1 sack.
That's a total of 4 Pressures by the Texans defense.

The Chiefs tallied 19 Pressures.

If you call that "Asset", you're being way too generous.

Like I said somewhere else .... Watson farted - argue away.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202009100kan.htm
Go to Advanced Defense.
You will see Hurries, QB Knock Down, Sacks = Total Pressures for each defensive player.
JJ Watt, for example, was credited for 2 QB KD = 2 Total Pressures
Reid with 1 Hurry, and Martin with 1 sack.
That's a total of 4 Pressures by the Texans defense.

The Chiefs tallied 19 Pressures.

If you call that "Asset", you're being way too generous.

He’s talking about what they gave up to protect Watson. Which should show either coaching is terrible or they just don't know how to evaluate offensive linemen talent.


What's crazy is one of the main reasons why Tunsil is looking good , is because of Watson's elusiveness and being able to escape sometimes under pressure. There's been several times Tunsil's man beat him bad and Watson was able to make that guy miss. Yes Tunsil is one of the best LT' s this season in pass pro. But in the running game, he is terrible.
This oline unit lacks communication and most of all that nasty toughness.



But they are 1000% accurate with their stance here.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
He talking about what they gave up to protect Watson. Which should show either coaching is terrible or they just don't know how to evaluate offensive linemen talent.


What's crazy is one of the main reasons why Tunsil is looking good , is because of Watson's elusiveness and being able to escape sometimes under pressure. There's been several times Tunsil's man beat him bad and Watson was able to make that guy miss. Yes Tunsil is one of the best LT' s this season in pass pro. But in the running game, he is terrible.
This oline unit lacks communication and most of all that nasty toughness.



But they are 1000% accurate with their stance here.
But he did include his comments on how he thinks they've been performing.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Even @Texansballer74 got the point of that post .... your stats were empty other than to try and prove your narrative which had nothing to do with the point - They've spent a ton of assets to protect Watson.
Asset definition:

 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
On the OL .... They've spent a boat load of assets on that line. There's talent there.

Tunsil's "The Best Pass Blocking LT In The League" .... supposedly (statistically he's damn good) at a cost of 2 #1 picks and a #2 to go with an average cap hit of $22m over 3 years.
Doesn't really appear he moves the needle .... that trade looks worse every day.

Tytus Howard First round pick and has been pretty solid.

Martin 2nd round pick (he's ass - can we cut this guy please?!).

Scharping 2nd round pick.

Fulton's been solid more often than not - his suck comes from being next to Martin.

Kelemete .... he runs hot an cold.

Point is , they have put a whole lot of assets towards protecting Watson ....
Yet....they can't get the job done. I absolutely agree that the talent has been assembled but between a piss-poor OL coach and a horrendous offensive scheme.....they've sucked. I still believe that the best move to be made would involve moving Fulton to Center for the rest of the season. The plan should be to just cut Martin. Scharping will be back at LG and Qvale should be at RG. Qvale is from Nebraska which makes him an OG. I'd just run this group until the season is over.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Yet....they can't get the job done. I absolutely agree that the talent has been assembled but between a piss-poor OL coach and a horrendous offensive scheme.....they've sucked. I still believe that the best move to be made would involve moving Fulton to Center for the rest of the season. The plan should be to just cut Martin. Scharping will be back at LG and Qvale should be at RG. Qvale is from Nebraska which makes him an OG. I'd just run this group until the season is over.
Agree. They spent money on assets but the ROI is terrible. Maybe it's unfair to judge them with Devlin still in the building, but the OL has been one of the biggest disappointments this season. Look at Scharping. He's a 2nd round pick who has been replaced by a journeyman 5th rounder.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Yet....they can't get the job done. I absolutely agree that the talent has been assembled but between a piss-poor OL coach and a horrendous offensive scheme.....they've sucked. I still believe that the best move to be made would involve moving Fulton to Center for the rest of the season. The plan should be to just cut Martin. Scharping will be back at LG and Qvale should be at RG. Qvale is from Nebraska which makes him an OG. I'd just run this group until the season is over.

And they still have Greg Mancz on the practice squad. He outperformed Martin at the Center position.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Agree. They spent money on assets but the ROI is terrible. Maybe it's unfair to judge them with Devlin still in the building, but the OL has been one of the biggest disappointments this season. Look at Scharping. He's a 2nd round pick who has been replaced by a journeyman 5th rounder.

Fulton has regressed too. They have been like you said the biggest disappointment for sure. Especially in the running game, in which they showed a lot of promise last season. Earl with this unit we can do away with cohesiveness and chemistry. Lol
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
We targeted the TEs 8 times; there might have been another one or two instances, but Watson had to take off running.
That's quite a bit really, 8 targets.
The Steelers hardly get their TE involved.
I think, in the AFC South, only one team targets the TEs more; I forgot to note down what I looked at last night (was too sleepy).
What with the injury situation to Akins this year, I don' think it's a concern.
Hope you are correct because I expect more out of TEs.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Oops, I take it back;
Targets by team:

Texans 45
Jax 48
Titans 76
Colts 64

I guess what I meant to say was that @8 target (in the last game), that would prorate to 64 in 8 games.
And in that case, only the Titans look to their TE more.
With this Texans team and Watson looking good stat-wise I want to see a lot more than two tight end targets per quarter. In my opinion that's just ridiculous. Again I want a heavy passing attack. If we had Earl Campbell, Dorsett or another great back then we wouldn't need pass catching TE.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
One day ... Watson farted.

Argue away.
How long did he hold it? 3 or 5 step drop? Did he try to hand it off? What was his college evaluation on this? Did he have this during combine or any bowl games? I saw or rather heard nothing of this in his championship game versus Alabama. Someone needs to research this. Was it nerves or game day meal?
Why you bringing it up NOW!?! Wait has Tim Kelly smelled...er said anything?
 


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